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Posted: 6/9/2002 12:26:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Does mister Nicholas Coppolla know he is uh, white? And that his Eyetalian ancestors were on the wrong side of a much more recent holocaust?
Scott |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 12:27:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Nicky's bio page from IMDb. BTW, his middle name is "Kim"....
[url]http://us.imdb.com/Name?Cage,+Nicolas[/url] Scott |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 12:52:22 PM EDT
[#3]
His daddy was dean of the School of Creative Arts at San Francisco State University when I was there in the early-mid 80's. I don't think I saw him on campus once, and I spent a lot of time in that department.
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Posted: 6/9/2002 1:11:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: His daddy was dean of the School of Creative Arts at San Francisco State University when I was there in the early-mid 80's. I don't think I saw him on campus once, and I spent a lot of time in that department. For those who did not feel link clicking the link, Nicki is the nephew of director Francis Ford Coppolla, and the cousin of director Sofia Coppolla.... His dad (mentioned above) is Frankie's brother... Scott |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 1:12:33 PM EDT
[#5]
So he asked a question.. geez... why the animosity towards him?
Personally, I think he's pretty warped... and I [i]like[/i] that.... [}:D] |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 1:14:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: So he asked a question.. geez... why the animosity towards him? Personally, I think he's pretty warped... and I [i]like[/i] that.... [}:D] Hey I can do warped. And be a gun-owning white who doesn't blame my ancestors (or myself) for every wrong done to every person in the world... Plus, I like horsies... Scott |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 1:23:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Hey I can do warped. And be a gun-owning white who doesn't blame my ancestors (or myself) for every wrong done to every person in the world... Appreciate the sentiment but I don't think you can extrapolate all of his personal philosophies by the one comment stated here. I think it may be human nature to try to build a model of what we think someone is like from what little we do know about them.... celebrities bearing the brunt of this phenomenon. Give people a break... would you fare any better under such scrutiny? |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 1:25:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: Hey I can do warped. And be a gun-owning white who doesn't blame my ancestors (or myself) for every wrong done to every person in the world... Appreciate the sentiment but I don't think you can extrapolate all of his personal philosophies by the one comment stated here. I think it may be human nature to try to build a model of what we think someone is like from what little we do know about them.... celebrities bearing the brunt of this phenomenon. Give people a break... would you fare any better under such scrutiny? Totally right. We should not judge him by this one question.... Scott |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 1:28:00 PM EDT
[#9]
He didn't just ask a question. Mr. Larry already asked the question, like a lawyer would, without any bias in the question itself.
"Why did you join the Marine Corps?" Mr. Nick was not happy with the answer, so he tried to get the old Navajo guy to explain why he supported the US, "...a nation that killed 19 million of his people and countless other minorities?" Dont'cha see the difference? Larry just asked why (good for him), while Mr. Nick tried to make the old Navajo defend his reasoning, and his decision, for joining (this is asshole bullshit. The old guy has no need to defend anything he does, especially to Mr. Nick, 40 years his junior.) |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 1:33:22 PM EDT
[#10]
I do see the difference but I still think y'all are overreacting. Cage is under no obligation to be unbiased as he wasn't conducting the interview. So he has his own opinion.
The other thing y'all need to consider is that they are on a PR run to promote the movie Windtalkers. The movie, from the previews, already suggests that the military was solely interested in the Native Americans for the language they spoke and it's value to them. The previews go so far as to say, "It is your job to protect this man. But should the man fall into enemy hands, it is your job to protect the code." Insinuating the code talker is expendable when faced with compromising the code. They are TRYING to stir up controversy. Another example of the white man using the Native Americans for their own gain. They're trying to sell movie tickets, y'all.... this isn't a PBS documentary. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:00:44 PM EDT
[#11]
The fact is I wondered the very same thing when I first heard about Navajo Code Talkers. That was a long time ago, I mean a LONG time ago, before most folks knew about it. I eventually came to the conclusion that they were bad ass dudes that wanted a piece of the action, or could see that there was a real enemy to fight. Native Americans fought for the US Army all through the Indian Wars, so I really never connected that thought with some idea that Indians wouldn't fight just because it was a "White man's war".
Like the man said, they just did what humans do. Ross |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:08:03 PM EDT
[#12]
The other thing y'all need to consider is that they are on a PR run to promote the movie Windtalkers. The movie, from the previews, already suggests that the military was solely interested in the Native Americans for the language they spoke and it's value to them. The previews go so far as to say, "It is your job to protect this man. But should the man fall into enemy hands, it is your job to protect the code." Insinuating the code talker is expendable when faced with compromising the code. They were expendable in real life. No insinuation about it. The Marine "bodyguards" were under direct orders to shoot the code talker if he was going to be captured to "protect the code". The code itself is a code within a code. Even a Navajo wouldn't understand the code unless he was a code talker. Several Navajo were captured in the Philipeens and Wake. They were grilled pretty hard by the Japs to break the code, but to those Navajo it wasn't making any sense. I do think his comment was simply to stir up stuff to sell tickets though. Ross |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:12:07 PM EDT
[#13]
"Battle Cry" by Leon Uris was made into a movie in 1955. It features Navajo codetalkers, both the introduction of the idea, and their service in combat.
Scott |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:12:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Yep, Mr. Nick was trying to stir up controversy. Perhaps to sell movie tickets, perhaps because he felt the need to spout the party line. In either case, it was at the expense of the old guy, who simply wanted to get out of Pacoima and see the world!
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:17:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: I do see the difference but I still think y'all are overreacting. Cage is under no obligation to be unbiased as he wasn't conducting the interview. So he has his own opinion. The other thing y'all need to consider is that they are on a PR run to promote the movie Windtalkers. The movie, from the previews, already suggests that the military was solely interested in the Native Americans for the language they spoke and it's value to them. The previews go so far as to say, "It is your job to protect this man. But should the man fall into enemy hands, it is your job to protect the code." Insinuating the code talker is expendable when faced with compromising the code. They are TRYING to stir up controversy. Another example of the white man using the Native Americans for their own gain. They're trying to sell movie tickets, y'all.... this isn't a PBS documentary. Where is the controversy? It is simple math, which is unfortunately applied to human lives all the time in [b]EVERY[/b] military. One life, versus the thousands of Marines, including other codetalkers, who would be in danger if the japanese got a live codetalker. I'm not trying to sound cold. I personally prefer the Patton version of living for your country and killing the other sumbitch. Scott |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:26:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Where is the controversy? The controversy? Well you can see it if you look NE in the afternoon towards the horizon.... see that tree? Just to the left you can see the shadow of the controversy. [;D] I served my country. I value every service member's life. Please don't ever question that. Besides, I [i]am[/i] a trained killer. [:D] |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:29:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Besides, I [i]am[/i] a trained killer. [:D] Really? Looking at the pics I thought Waverunner was just letting you kick his ass. he he |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:42:23 PM EDT
[#18]
I wasn't referring to that training. [;D]
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:44:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Where is the controversy? The controversy? Well you can see it if you look NE in the afternoon towards the horizon.... see that tree? Just to the left you can see the shadow of the controversy. [;D] I served my country. I value every service member's life. Please don't ever question that. Besides, I [i]am[/i] a trained killer. [:D] I think I meant something like "Those of us who realize the truth of combat and the world will not be taking in by the propaganda." Then I thought about you whaling on WaveRunner and I kind of blanked out.... Scott [:D] |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:48:45 PM EDT
[#20]
MM, I have a feeling that most people would have no idea what happened on 9/11/2001 in a few decades. After all, if you were to go on the street and as people about stuff like the USS Maine (which was a big deal back then), or the sinking of the Luisitania (spell?), most people wouldn't know. Even if they do remember, it'd probably be twisted by revisionists into something PC. Most people still think the Civil War was about ending slavery. You learn all this stuff in American History, but most people either don't pay attention or just forget it. People act like Enron is some kind of a first or that it's particular evil because the top officers made so much money with such crooked means. There has been plenty of crooks in history, we just don't pay attention to it. Most people have no idea what Credit Mobilier or Teapot Dome was.
Memory is short, it can't be helped. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 2:52:50 PM EDT
[#21]
jz,
I almost hate to pull this card on you but... I can't WAIT to see how your attitudes and opinions change in the next couple decades. When I went back for my ten year reunion a couple years ago it was AMAZING to see how everyone had grown and changed. I'm not denying that 9/11 will lose some of the intensity that surrounds it now but I can tell you that Pearl Harbor was waaaaay before my time and I still get upset when I think about my fellow sailors who died trapped inside the hulls of those ships. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 3:17:57 PM EDT
[#22]
It also happens that it's the subject of a major Hollywood Blockbuster starrying Ben Affleck.
Maybe in 50 years 9/11 will be the day that some terrorists ruined a love triangle. I can't wait to watch. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 3:32:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: It also happens that it's the subject of a major Hollywood Blockbuster starrying Ben Affleck. Maybe in 50 years 9/11 will be the day that some terrorists ruined a love triangle. I can't wait to watch. I doubt if that piece of crap (interrupted by three decent aerial combat sequences) is the reason Miss_Magnum remembers the attack on Pearl Harbor... Scott |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 3:50:08 PM EDT
[#24]
If it doesn't further the agenda of a certain segment of the mass media or address atrocities made against a segment of the population overrepresented in the same, my experience tells me it will always be on the back burner. Hell, look at Pol Pot and Stalin.
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Posted: 6/9/2002 4:29:33 PM EDT
[#25]
That was my way of satirizing popular history. You'll be surprised at how much people get their history from movies. The Killing Fields, never been there, but I watched the movie. Titanic, saw it in a movie. Pearl Harbor, that Affleck guy is such a hero, shooting down all those japs and all.
Look at Vietnam and how it's been misrepresented in movies. All those movies made in the 80s about Vietnam were anti-war movies that had nothing to do with the real Vietnam War. Even movies like We were soldiers once, it gives you no idea what was the background of the battle or what lessons were learned or even why the battle took place. All you see is a bunch of explosions and people shooting at each other, with typical hollywood special effects like Mel Gibson shooting that lone chargers right through the head in slow motion. The real battle of Ia Drang took place over several days at two different locations. LZ X-Ray and LZ Albany. It involved the 1/7, 2/7 and 1/5 (not sure on the last one, could've been 2/5). As with typical Hollywood, they had to insert some PC message in there about race. For me the movie replicated the events of the book but not the spirit. Stuff like how the men of Herrick's platoon, when they were finally rescued, refused to stand up because they've been so shell shocked over the past few days. Or Lt. Geoghehan (spell? played by Chris Klein), he was killed in fanatical defense, his platoon almost got overran. There was a company where the CO got wounded, called up his XO, who was also wounded, then they called up a Lt to replace him, but I think he got killed. Bottomline is, the movie totally didn't capture the spirit of the book. People mix history with entertainment. That's the problem, if it's not entertaining, then it's not interesting, and not worth the time. If you'd asked people about Pearl Harbor before the movie came out, I wonder how many people would know about Pearl Harbor the event and how many would actually know what happened when Pearl Harbor was bombed. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 4:40:32 PM EDT
[#26]
jz,
I was a squid... but not like Frank. [;)] Pearl Harbor has special meaning to me regardless of the movie. Since you'll probably never serve your country you will probably never know what it is like to have a shipmate.. to have that person rely on you and you rely on them [i]for your life[/i]. You'll also never have true respect for those shipmates who died while doing their jobs. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 5:13:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: jz, I was a squid... but not like Frank. [;)] Pearl Harbor has special meaning to me regardless of the movie. Since you'll probably never serve your country you will probably never know what it is like to have a shipmate.. to have that person rely on you and you rely on them [i]for your life[/i]. You'll also never have true respect for those shipmates who died while doing their jobs. What are you talking about? His point was that Pearl Harbor isn't remembered well enough, not that it shouldn't be remembered, and if not for a recent movie which had all kinds of gee whiz appeal, most people wouldn't remember it at all. Go find a teenager who hasn't seen Pearl Harbor and ask him/her what it was about. Are you denying that point or just playing holier than thou? |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 5:44:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Go find a teenager who hasn't seen Pearl Harbor and ask him/her what it was about. Are you denying that point or just playing holier than thou? Both. ::smug grin:: Because I can. [:p] I really think that people know a little more about their history than your jaded minds believe. Even if they don't, I'd prefer to believe they do than have such a negative attitude about things. As for being holier than thou in regards to jz? Oh, yeah, baby... I will be that way. I know I've made it on this Earth more years than he has and that deserves some respect and credibility just as I offer it to those who are my elders. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 6:11:12 PM EDT
[#29]
MM, you know I've never disrespected you in anyway. I've been very polite and have not made any personal attacks toward you.
MM, you are also right I will never serve my coutry like you did. Not for lack of motivation, but thanks to my dad with his sh*tty genes. Thanks to him, I have eyes uncorrectable to 20/20 with serious astigmatism that can't even use contacts. I volunteered for the Marines and they turned me down after a medical exam for that reason precisely. BTW, I find the term Shipmates quite hilarious because it's such a bad dating show. I certainly hope I'll never have shipmates. LOL |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 6:14:58 PM EDT
[#30]
I certainly hope I'll never have a BlindDate either. [;D] I also don't like a FifthWheel.
I'm sorry, I can't help myself. [giggle] |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 6:16:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: MM, you know I've never disrespected you in anyway. I've been very polite and have not made any personal attacks toward you. That wasn't a personal attack. Believe me... you'll know if I ever personally attack you. [}:D] BTW, I find the term Shipmates quite hilarious because it's such a bad dating show. I certainly hope I'll never have shipmates. LOL I thought you said you preferred books to television or radio?? Hmm? |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 7:10:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: ...but I would have been curious about that myself. The Native American culture was decimated by the settlers. Fast forward to the time where the same people who altered your way of life are asking you to risk your life to help them defend theirs? The first violence that I know of between Indian and English settler occured when the Indians launched a surprise attack on unsuspecting settlers who had invited them into their homes. The Indians butchered defensless men, women, and children. This was the typical model of Indian warfare. Indian culture was inferior to European culture in basically every respect. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 7:20:42 PM EDT
[#33]
I know of tons of things I've never experienced first hand. Although I have seen episodes of all three shows with my friends. How do I know that they're bad. Just the fact that my friend Vlad likes them. He has the most horrible taste in entertainment ever. His favorite movie of all time is Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
Anyway, I think we should drop the rape topic because it's getting old and we're not going to convince each other. I know you didn't make personal attacks toward me, which is cool. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 7:31:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: The first violence that I know of between Indian and English settler occured when the Indians launched a surprise attack on unsuspecting settlers who had invited them into their homes. The Indians butchered defensless men, women, and children. This was the typical model of Indian warfare. Indian culture was inferior to European culture in basically every respect. So they used a crude Trojan warhorse ploy... Sorry, but I don't agree that the culture was inferior or that they were any more barbaric than any other human civilization. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 9:11:03 PM EDT
[#35]
i usuallly dont entangle myself in any internet debates, but i have to say something about this one.
for anyone to equate what the Aztecs did, and apply that to all native tribes on north america is absurd. thats like saying what the Nazis did should be applied to all europeans. or what the barbaric catholic church did during the inquisitions, and lots of other atrocities associated to the church to all christians. we did as a country commit many barbaric things agains sometimes peaceful tribes. we did kill innocent women and children on many occaisions. we did commit acts of biological warfare by knowingly supplying smallpox infected blankets to native tribes. the native tribes and their decendants (me being one of them) know that war is hell, and the victors write the history, and to the victors go the spoils,. im not asking for any apology for the deaths of many...im not here to argue about the numbers..one million, ten million...or ten people....doesnt make a difference...dont try to justify slaughtering any number of people and try to tell me all the native tribes deserved it because of what the AZTECS did.i understand war...my father was a WWII VET,my eldest brother a vietnam vet, my grandafather was a vet during the spanish american war, my uncle a korean war vet. my aunt was a fucking Marine. all the peole in my family have served our country. and ive known many vets from many tribes on this continent...and none of them bitched about what happened to our ancestors...because we understand war..but dont try to excuse it with some lame ass..."well they were barbarians and they deserved it" sounds like the excuse militant muslim groups are using to execute us. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 9:16:00 PM EDT
[#36]
OK, Lets pretend for a moment, That Manifest Destiny had never been practiced by the United States.
Lets say that we never made the Louisiana Purchase or felt the need to expand westward across the continent. Does anybody really think that the Indian Nations would have went forth into a bright future, in which they would have transformed the American Continent west of the Mississipi into some sort of enviomentaly friendly Shamanistic utopia. Bunk!!! The American Indian, Would have been left to the genteel ministrations of European Colonialism. To be frank, if we had not gone West, some other European power would have. Let's taking a quick historical look at how Native Peoples, were treated by the English, the French, the Germans and the Spanish, All of whom would have loved to carve out huge cash cow colonies in the New World. Ask Anybody in most of South East Asia, how much fun it is to be a French Colony. Take a look at how much of Central Africa is still suffering from the after effects of German Colonial rule. Take a look at how the Germans treated Seypoys And of course let's not forget the most horridly efficient Colonial killing Machine ever devised by the mind of man "The British East India Company" Any one of these EuroPowers or some combination of them, would have happily beaten the Indian into submission, and if not practicing outright genocide, would have at the very least, used up the indians as cannon fodder in several generations of wars for control of the American Continent. take a look at the paradise created by both the Dutch and the English, that was, and is South Africa. If the United States had not moved Westward, the America's would be a war torn wasteland, World War I would have very likely been fought in the central part of the American Continent, The Indians would be dead, or Slaves of EuroPowers. If I were the Indians, I would get down on my knees and thank the great spirit every day, That It was the United States that came West, Not those other guys. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 9:36:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: take a look at the paradise created by both the Dutch and the English, that was, and is South Africa. If I were the Indians, I would get down on my knees and thank the great spirit every day, That It was the United States that came West, Not those other guys. Two problems with your post. First of all, Dutch ruled South Africa was the closet thing to a paradise the African continent has ever seen. That's fact. By your reasoning the Black Africans should have got down on their knees and thanked the Dutch, and then begged them to take back over. South Africa is the rape capital of the World...a title which it magically aquired when the ANC took over. Secondly, "those other guys", as you put it, are the same stock from which the USA sprang. Without those evil "other guys", there would have been no United States. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 9:53:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: I do see the difference but I still think y'all are overreacting. Cage is under no obligation to be unbiased as he wasn't conducting the interview. So he has his own opinion. The other thing y'all need to consider is that they are on a PR run to promote the movie Windtalkers. The movie, from the previews, already suggests that the military was solely interested in the Native Americans for the language they spoke and it's value to them. The previews go so far as to say, "It is your job to protect this man. But should the man fall into enemy hands, it is your job to protect the code." Insinuating the code talker is expendable when faced with compromising the code. They are TRYING to stir up controversy. Another example of the white man using the Native Americans for their own gain. They're trying to sell movie tickets, y'all.... this isn't a PBS documentary. As for the codetalkers being expendable, they were no more expendable than any other crypto operator or intel type who was subject to capture. Anyone who was in a position to spill very sensitive info to the enemy faced the same risk of being taken out by their own people. For that matter, any military person in a time of war is expendable, like it or not. As are you, I am a sailor, USN 1969-1973. A much better and more factual movie about Pearl Harbor is 'Tora Tora Tora'. Just wanted to throw that in. |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 4:58:13 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Well, MM, this is the wrong kind of PR. It has turned me off on seeing the movie and I wanted to see it. I would be willing to bet that that kind of PR [i]does[/i] work on a lot of people. If they really are working on a more liberal angle then you are not their target audience hence why their PR is not "right" for you. Cage is a liberal POS and I don't understand why you are defending his spouting more lies and made up 'facts' just like the anti-gun pukes. Listen.. all of this is hearsay. Did you see the interview? Did you ask him where he got his figures from? He asked a freakin' question.. it doesn't sound like he went on an hour long tirade about the injustices done to Native Americans. And don't give me that drivel about "manifest destiny" and "imperialism" justifying what the settlers did.... why can't you just suck it up and say life isn't fair and that's what happened. Rationalization of inhumanity is like dying a skunk a different color and calling it a cat.... it may be more aesthetically pleasing but it still stinks. Oh... and now you are saying that because I am playing devil's advocate that it's tantamount to defending anti-gunners? Wow... that's a leap. [rolleyes] Know thy enemy. It is your best tool for defeating them. Translation: if you can't understand your opponent's point of view you will never find the best way to attack it As for the codetalkers being expendable, they were no more expendable than any other crypto operator or intel type who was subject to capture. I think that is a given. Every service member knows that they are a number. The very reason this movie was made is because these codetalkers were Native Americans and the code was in Navaho. I still don't see why it is that big of a deal that Nicolas Cage asked them how they felt about it. As I said before, I would have been curious myself. As are you, I am a sailor, USN 1969-1973. A much better and more factual movie about Pearl Harbor is 'Tora Tora Tora'. Agreed. |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 9:55:25 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Listen.. all of this is hearsay. Did you see the interview? Did you ask him where he got his figures from? He asked a freakin' question.. it doesn't sound like he went on an hour long tirade about the injustices done to Native Americans. Sorry to butt in, but this is my thread. :) Listen, the question had already been asked by Larry King and answered by the old guy. Mr. Cage was apparently not satisfied with the answer, so he asked the question himself, adding all the BS about 19 million killed and countless other minorities. Cage was trying to troll the old guy into going on a tirade about white man and the evil white empire, but the old guy would have no part of it because he is an American patriot himself. Would you bad mouth the Navy? Hell no! And the old guy wouldn't bad mouth the US, the Marine Corps, or any of his fellow Marines who eventually became his friends. Mr. Nick is a dick. It's as simple as that. Why would you stick up for someone who tried to bait another person, especially an old veteran close to 80 years-old? |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 1:49:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: [And don't give me that drivel about "manifest destiny" and "imperialism" justifying what the settlers did.... why can't you just suck it up and say life isn't fair and that's what happened. Rationalization of inhumanity is like dying a skunk a different color and calling it a cat.... it may be more aesthetically pleasing but it still stinks. Not once did you see me post anything about 'manifest destiny' or any of that other drivel, as you call it. I am 1/4 Creek Indian, yes, I realize that maybe the white man was a little too aggressive in their treatment of Native Americans but, like slavery, it is ancient history. Oh... and now you are saying that because I am playing devil's advocate that it's tantamount to defending anti-gunners? Wow... that's a leap. [rolleyes] Know thy enemy. It is your best tool for defeating them. Translation: if you can't understand your opponent's point of view you will never find the best way to attack it As for the codetalkers being expendable, they were no more expendable than any other crypto operator or intel type who was subject to capture. I think that is a given. Every service member knows that they are a number. The very reason this movie was made is because these codetalkers were Native Americans and the code was in Navaho. I still don't see why it is that big of a deal that Nicolas Cage asked them how they felt about it. As I said before, I would have been curious myself. |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 2:04:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Listen, we just see things differently. I will defend someone's right to express their opinion, even if it differs from mine.
What kills me is the people jumping on the "I hate that jerk" bandwagon. Y'all don't know this man. Heck, we may agree on politics and RKBA but you might not like me in person. ::shrug:: |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 2:22:02 PM EDT
[#43]
I read the "movie" book. It SUCKED... It read just exactly like a Nicholas Cage script - and hardly had anything to do with the code-talkers at all. I was severely dissapointed and BORED OUT OF MY FREAKING MIND reading it. The book got a D- if not an outright F in my mind, and since it's nothing but the movie put out in paperback, we can all save some money and wait for it to be on cable tv.
It's sad really. Such a good historical story and Hollywood morons get a hold of it and make you want to puke. |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 2:54:41 PM EDT
[#44]
If the Indians had come up with the compass and built ships, They would've made the Vikings look like the Girl Scouts.
Try to think of it in terms of El Cid saving Spain from the Cherokee's instead of the Moor's If the Indians had half an chance, they would happily have invaded Europe, and we probably would not even have got a Casino out of the deal. |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 3:10:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: Why do they think that only because occasionall you pay money to see a movie, you value their input on other subjects? Then I guess Charleton Heston shouldn't be speaking out on RKBA? aye, but Charleton Heston is going against the grain, not parroting mindless drivel just to be "hip". As far as his actual intelligence, i would'nt know. lib |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 3:14:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Yesiree, when Christopher Columbus landed in the New World he found a virtual paradise laid out before him. Ritual cannibalism, gustatory cannibalism, slavery, continuous warfare, murder of captives, low status of females, infanticide, ritual barbarities, and thoughtless cruelty on such a grand scale that even these jaded Europeans were shocked! The history of the world has been such that no one nation or people should be singled out as particularly worthy of condemnation above all others. At least not in the ancient world. There was a little town near the Aztec city of Tenochtitlán (now Mexico City) whose name in the Aztec tongue was 'The line started here.' It was about four miles from the center of the Aztec capital, and the phrase 'the line started here' was a reference to the time when the Aztecs were dedicating a newly built temple to the Sun God, and were using captive tribes as human sacrifices whose blood was used to 'purify' their temple. The line of doomed prisoners stretched from the little village to the temple in the center of the city, a distance of four miles! Reasonable people, some of these Indians. I'm certain that some of the indigenous tribes of present day Mexico were thrilled to see the coming of the Spanish, if for no other reason that to put an end to such barbarities. Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)] I agree with most of your point, but what about discernment between one tribe/group and another. Would you like to be catergorized just because your a native? Where was the discernment for the Cherokee? who did they butcher? Lib the(discerning)toon[;)] |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 3:24:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: aye, but Charleton Heston is going against the grain, not parroting mindless drivel just to be "hip". As far as his actual intelligence, i would'nt know. lib So if the celebrity agrees with you, he's being an independent thinker and if he disagrees with you, he's an idiot? You don't know his motivation or his beliefs. None of us do. I just can't believe there is so little tolerance here. I'm the minority in my beliefs in my family but they don't ridicule me, nor I them. Again, I would have been curious about the matter myself. So if I asked the question, would I be an idiot, too? |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 3:32:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Post from Libertoon -
I agree with most of your point, but what about discernment between one tribe/group and another. Would you like to be catergorized just because your a native? Where was the discernment for the Cherokee? who did they butcher? Sure, as I mentioned above, I only chose the Aztecs because we know so much more about what their culture was like without [u]any[/u] European influences! There were peaceful tribes, as well, but they fared badly against their more warlike neighbors! There were times when the Cherokees could be just as wanton in their cruelties as the white Europeans that were settling near them. But they were not know for their cruelties as some tribes were. Eric The(TrulyDiscerning)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 4:02:27 PM EDT
[#49]
the difference with Heston is that he is doing that as part of his job as an NRA official
he isn't simply using his fame to get on tv and then spout off on his agenda true he got the NRA job because he's famous, but at least talking about gun rights is his job, versus some celeb. who's on some tv talk show because of their new movie and they take the screen time to push their agenda some similarities, but slightly different IMO Quoted: Quoted: Why do they think that only because occasionall you pay money to see a movie, you value their input on other subjects? Then I guess Charleton Heston shouldn't be speaking out on RKBA? |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 4:13:12 PM EDT
[#50]
What about Tom Selleck, then, on Rosie O'Donnell? Were any of you upset when he used his fame to get on her show and then spoke out in support of RKBA?
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