Quoted: Late..............but better then never, although I think that the NRA does need to become more aggresive and take on the bigger isssues not all that hunting crap.

I'm glad the NRA has supported all those hunters by backing concealed carry reform for years, gunmaker protection, insisted the previous gunmaker protection bill be scraped due to the AWB renewal, and changing laws such as Florida's duty to retreat (which expires in 8 days ) There are two different articles about AR variations and a tactical shotgun article in this month's American Rifleman alone.

I am a hunter along with being a CWL and C&R holder, EBR and AK owner (FAL soon ). This whole "me" attitude by some really gets me. The NRA has to spread the love around baby

That's exactly the point I'm making, rara1141!  How loudly will the NRA say just what you did? And how far are they going to go to ensure those who STOLE weapons from law-abiding citizens are punished?

Quoted: That's exactly the point I'm making, rara1141!  How loudly will the NRA say just what you did.  And how far are they going to go to ensure those who STOLE weapons from law-abiding citizens are punished?

They'll be able to do more with more members and more clout and more money.
That's a start.

Quoted: Quoted: RIF Curious--you a member? Do I have to be a member of the Democratic Party to criticize them??   I'll make you a deal.  If the NRA pursues additional legal action against the police chief, I'll sign up to be a member on the Internet immediately. Couple things-- I said "RIF" cuz they didn't file the suit TODAY (as you said).   Secondly, how would they "pursue(s) additional legal action against the police chief"?  They are a non-governmental entity, with no legal standing to bring charges against him, nor an aggrieved party to file a civil suit.  I'm not an attorney, so perhaps a legal beagle will come along and explain things to you better.  Bottom line, (I'm quite certain, but could be wrong) they lack the ability to do what you wish. Either way, I and my 3,999,999 fellow NRA members have stopped this--I think that's a much better thing than criticizing the actions of others as "not fast enough to suit me."  Frankly, my patience with bashers who are all talk and no action has been expended--some time ago.  Join or don't--we'll carry the water for you.

OK, Im a life member of the NRA. Does that make it OK with you for me to say Im sick of the NRA doing too little too late. When is the last time they took a really proactive stand. Yup they are working on the Olahoma thing some but what most of us are waiting to see is the kind of zeal in the courts that the ACLU seems to have no trouble finding. And before you say it Ill gladly send them more $$ if I think its being used on something besides a goldplated HQ and tons of throw away mail.

Wooohoooo!!!! I guess that I can be excited about this as well.

For all the whiners - gdamn, what do you want?????? Some places are not gun friendly, and you can't get around that. You can retroactively fix what has happened, but there is no way that you can prevent it from occuring in the first place. What you need to do is fix the problem.

Quoted: This thread has an important message that needs to be seen by the membership--please don't post personal attacks that will make it necessary to lock it or bury it in the Bear Pit.

Even if the offending party deserved it

Quoted: Quoted: <snip> Does that make it OK with you <snip> I'm just an anonymous dumbass on the internet--why on earth would you care about gaining my simpering approbation?

Well you try to use it as a tool to discredit someone from having a complaint against the NRA. All fear the sarcasim of the beekeeper.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: <snip> Does that make it OK with you <snip> I'm just an anonymous dumbass on the internet--why on earth would you care about gaining my simpering approbation?   Well you try to use it as a tool to discredit someone from having a complaint against the NRA. All fear the sarcasim of the beekeeper.

I don't know why I am even taking the time to write this, because I am sure it will fall on closed ears, but what would your alternative be? We live in a real world, and it comes down to the lesser of two evils. What is the progun orginization that you are thinking about that did a better job? Or were you just comparing it to your imagined "super organization".  Quit watching cartoons and waiting for the superhero that will come down and solve all of these problems in one fell swoop.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: RIF Curious--you a member? Do I have to be a member of the Democratic Party to criticize them??   I'll make you a deal.  If the NRA pursues additional legal action against the police chief, I'll sign up to be a member on the Internet immediately. Couple things-- I said "RIF" cuz they didn't file the suit TODAY (as you said).   Secondly, how would they "pursue(s) additional legal action against the police chief"?  They are a non-governmental entity, with no legal standing to bring charges against him, nor an aggrieved party to file a civil suit.  I'm not an attorney, so perhaps a legal beagle will come along and explain things to you better.  Bottom line, (I'm quite certain, but could be wrong) they lack the ability to do what you wish. Either way, I and my 3,999,999 fellow NRA members have stopped this--I think that's a much better thing than criticizing the actions of others as "not fast enough to suit me."  Frankly, my patience with bashers who are all talk and no action has been expended--some time ago.  Join or don't--we'll carry the water for you.   OK, Im a life member of the NRA. Does that make it OK with you for me to say Im sick of the NRA doing too little too late. When is the last time they took a really proactive stand. Yup they are working on the Olahoma thing some but what most of us are waiting to see is the kind of zeal in the courts that the ACLU seems to have no trouble finding. And before you say it Ill gladly send them more $$ if I think its being used on something besides a goldplated HQ and tons of throw away mail.

The ACLU is always attracting media attention because they are hitting MEDIA hot-button topics like religion, homosexuality, and criminals (illegal immigrants, prison inmates, NOLA refugees, etc). The RKBA and firearms in general are on the backburner in the media and common people's minds. S.397 barely got any attention compared to most stuff these days. I have almost decided this is a good thing IMO. Almost like "out of sight, out of mind". Most people really don't care about gun rights (a significant portion of gun owners included). It is bad but yet good at the same time. As far as a proactive stand, they did pull their convention from Columbus when they instituted their AWB. Let's see who Bush nominates in addition to Roberts and what kind of case can be brought in front of SCOTUS in the next few years (really holding my breath on that one though).

ETA: Alot of Republicans truely don't care about the RKBA either but the NRA contributes to them in order for them to take our side. That is what I expect them to do with our money and they have been as far as I can tell. I don;t get any of these mailings others speak about. I am actually starting to feel neglected by the NRA because they don't send me any mail

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3367515

HoustonChronicle.com -- http://www.HoustonChronicle.com | Section: National

Sept. 23, 2005, 10:43PM

THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
New Orleans police can't disarm evacuees
Return weapons to law-abiders, judge demands
By BILL WALSH
Newhouse News Service

NEW ORLEANS - Gun rights groups won a temporary restraining order Friday preventing police in New Orleans and a nearby parish from confiscating people's firearms when seeking to evacuate residents.

U.S. District Court Judge Jay Zainey ordered the New Orleans Police and St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's Office to stop taking weapons from law-abiding people and return any they already took in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

In documents filed in federal court in Baton Rouge, La., New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Chief Eddie Compass and St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain deny ordering the confiscation of firearms.

But news reports quoted Compass as saying that only law enforcement officials would be allowed to have firearms and Deputy Chief Warren Riley as saying, "We are going to take all the weapons."

Wayne LaPierre, president of the National Rifle Association, said his group documented 30 to 40 cases of people having their weapons taken away after Katrina hit Aug. 29.

"In many cases, it was from their homes at gunpoint. There were no receipts given or anything else at a time when there was no 911 response, and these citizens were out there on their own protecting their families," LaPierre said."The worst thing about it is that it was at a time of complete collapse of the government's ability to protect people."

In the immediate aftermath of Katrina, there were widespread reports of looting throughout New Orleans. At the outset, the city ordered the police to ignore looters and focus instead on search and rescue. But within days, crime spiraled out of control and police were directed to restore order.

To gain control of the situation, Gov. Kathleen Blanco issued emergency power orders, which allow the authorities to regulate firearms. But the suit alleged that law enforcement officials overstepped the bounds by taking guns away in violation of the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

HoustonChronicle.com -- http://www.HoustonChronicle.com | Section: National
This article is: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3367515

Looks like they might have a perjury case....

Quoted: nds like if presented with this situation they are saying it would be OK if given a receipt.  If none was offered or given, then that would be theft of a firearm, a federal crime, therefore the JBT involved "lose" their LE status and just became felons and should be treated as such.

NEW ORLEANS - SEPTEMBER 22: (L-R) New Orleans Police Sgt. Kevin Guillot, Deputy Mike Thommes and Deputy Donald Rindal, both from the Ramsey County Sheriff's Department in St. Paul, Minnesota, prepare to enter a home to collect guns found by members of the Pennsylvania Task Force-1 Urban Search & Rescue searching for victims of Hurricane Katrina on Wildair Drive in the University District September 22, 2005 in New Orleans, Louisiana. The body count from Hurricane Katrina has risen to over 1,000, although the search may be hampered by the threat from Hurricane Rita. (Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty Images)
editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=55741900&cdi=0

Lets hope your right

Quoted: Looks like they might have a perjury case....

I hope that they are charged with SOMETHING

In documents filed in federal court in Baton Rouge, La., New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Chief Eddie Compass and St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain deny ordering the confiscation of firearms. But news reports quoted Compass as saying that only law enforcement officials would be allowed to have firearms and Deputy Chief Warren Riley as saying, "We are going to take all the weapons."

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: <snip> Does that make it OK with you <snip> I'm just an anonymous dumbass on the internet--why on earth would you care about gaining my simpering approbation?   Well you try to use it as a tool to discredit someone from having a complaint against the NRA. All fear the sarcasim of the beekeeper. Huh?  Someone (all??) fears my "sarcasim"?   Cool (I guess).   No sarcasm intended.

So remind me again what you seem to be convinced your right about. The NRA is not doing as much as it could or should.  Meanwhile you seem convinced that anyone who questions the NRA's activities is an herratic. Sounds kind of like some middle eastern religion. Go ahead and quote me now with stupid little icons and such. Your argument must not be able to stand on just plain text.

Quoted: Quoted: Can I criticize now??!!!  The press release says the NRA filed the motion today in Federal Court.  Law-abiding citizens were getting their weapons seized more than two weeks ago! The United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana has been shut down for a couple of weeks due to the fact that it was located in a disaster area. They just recently opened a temporary office in Baton Rouge. How were they going to file if the court in that district was closed ? Anybody else ever noticed that most NRA bashers are non-paying members of this site ? Don;t support the site, don't support the biggest gun lobbying organization in the US. Coincidence, I think not. They just want all the goodies for free and let the others support them.  (his THIS is not a slander towards non-paying members in any way, just NRA-bashing ones )

The only coincidence here is that after being a paying member of both for a time, I decided my money was better spent elsewhere.  

I was going to say something about the attacks in this thread, but I'm not going to argue anything here.  I'll go back to the technical forums now before I get pissed off at the irrationality of GD.

It's painfully obvious to me that some do not understand how the US courts systems work.

To those that say the NRA didn't do enough or didn't do it soon enough you should know that to get a motion filed on the 23rd they had to begin working on that immediately after the gun confiscations began happening.  They didn't wake up on the 23rd, walk into court and file the motion

Yes, I'm sure the NRA could do A LOT more but with only 4 million members (out of 40 million gun owners) they are sort of limited when it comes to fighting for the 2nd Amendment.  Geez, I wonder what they could do with just 10 million gun owners on their side

Quoted: Yes, I'm sure the NRA could do A LOT more but with only 4 million members (out of 40 million gun owners) they are sort of limited when it comes to fighting for the 2nd Amendment.  Geez, I wonder what they could do with just 10 million gun owners on their side

Completely false.  The NRA has a huge weapon to fight these cases. One that gives it unlimited resources.  Organizations that file civil rights cases can be completely reimbursed by the federal government.  Almost very time you hear the ACLU has removed a plaque, unbanned a book, stopped some other civil rights abuse what you don't hear is that they will receive a check from the US Gov for doing do.  A check worth the full legal fees.  The NRA could start doing the same.  

My membership is set to expire in Oct.  As I've said before, they won't get a cent until I see some action against the city, the mayor, the Chief of Police and the officers involved.  Civil right suits and civil suits for damages.  

For those of you saying "They did what they could!"  I wonder if your tune would be  different if the cops walked out of your house will ALL of the guns in YOUR safe and gave you nothing to prove they we taken leaving you unarmed in a city of chaos.  

NRA is the best legal defense we have at this time.

To the NRA bashers WHAT HAVE YOU DONE besides flap your pie hole ?

How stupid can you be ?????????????

Quoted: NRA is the best legal defense we have at this time. To the NRA bashers WHAT HAVE YOU DONE besides flap your pie hole ? How stupid can you be ?????????????

I've giving the NRA lots of money.  I've called my representatives.   I've voted pro gun.  

Even if I hadn't I would still be entitled to bash the NRA.  It's called the First Amendment.

Quoted: Quoted: Completely false.  The NRA has a huge weapon to fight these cases. One that gives it unlimited resources.  Organizations that file civil rights cases can be completely reimbursed by the federal government.   If that's true, do you suppose they are not cashing in on all that "free money" due to . . . what?   I don't know the answer either way, but I'm guessing there's some loophole that prevents them from exploiting all that free money.

Your efforts will fall on deaf ears Mike.

www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41635

A new online petition asks Congress to change a specific civil-rights statute in hopes of preventing the American Civil Liberties Union from collecting attorney fees from taxpayers of local governments the organization takes to court. The effort – spearheaded by Craig McCarthy of CourtZero.org, a site dedicated to stemming judicial activism – seeks to change 42 U.S.C., Section 1988, of the United States Code. The statute now allows judges to award attorney fees to plaintiffs in civil-rights cases brought against local governments, [/b]thereby putting the taxpayers on the hook and oftentimes funneling public money to the ACLU. McCarthy wants the law changed so cases involving the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment would not apply.

Quoted: Excellent. A little late, but still...

I was thinking that until I read the part about them also having to return confiscated guns. I'm sure someone's going to be screaming about how they're now going to be weakening the protective power ot the NO LEO by making them go door to door returning guns. How would that be for irony. People who were safe in their homes, willing to defend themselves with the legally owned firearms as intended by the RKBA... and by returning the guns the NO LEO would actually be increasing the protecive powers of the comunity by enabling people to take care of themselves.

Kudos for NRA, but I'd say more kudos to members like those on this site that hammered them with e-mails of disapproval toward the NRA's apparent "wait and see" policy in the event.

Quoted: I heard a report that many of the confiscated guns are now missing. Wonder what happened to them?

Well considering the condition of NOLA at the time they can easily use the "boating accident" excuse.
Goes to show you they had no intention of ever returning those legally owned firearms if that's the case.
I don't remember hearing anything about how they were taking guns AND tagging them with the owners information to return them at a later time. Not only shoudl the nRA be pushing to have the guns returns but pushing NOLA to reimburse those owners whose guns were "lost".
NO LE dropped the ball on this one big time if the legally owned guns aren't returned to their owners. Major blemish on the LE community as far as I'm concerned.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out. I didn't read anything about any time limit that the LE had to retrn those guns althoug they wasted no time taking them. Hopefully the NRA will continue to follow this with much scrutiny.

Quoted: www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41635 A new online petition asks Congress to change a specific civil-rights statute in hopes of preventing the American Civil Liberties Union from collecting attorney fees from taxpayers of local governments the organization takes to court. The effort – spearheaded by Craig McCarthy of CourtZero.org, a site dedicated to stemming judicial activism – seeks to change 42 U.S.C., Section 1988, of the United States Code. The statute now allows judges to award attorney fees to plaintiffs in civil-rights cases brought against local governments, [/b]thereby putting the taxpayers on the hook and oftentimes funneling public money to the ACLU. McCarthy wants the law changed so cases involving the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment would not apply.

That only overs attorney fees...you do know that there is a lot more involved right?  

Based on your argument the ACLU doesn't need to receive membership money either, correct?  Yet they do and they have big money backers like George Soros donating $4 million chucks of cash to the ACLU.  

Why is he doing that and why are they collecting membership dues if they have "unlimited resources" flowing in from Uncle Sammy?

Quoted: Quoted: www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41635 A new online petition asks Congress to change a specific civil-rights statute in hopes of preventing the American Civil Liberties Union from collecting attorney fees from taxpayers of local governments the organization takes to court. The effort – spearheaded by Craig McCarthy of CourtZero.org, a site dedicated to stemming judicial activism – seeks to change 42 U.S.C., Section 1988, of the United States Code. The statute now allows judges to award attorney fees to plaintiffs in civil-rights cases brought against local governments, [/b]thereby putting the taxpayers on the hook and oftentimes funneling public money to the ACLU. McCarthy wants the law changed so cases involving the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment would not apply. That doesn't tell us much--how do we know the NRA would fit into the definition of which organizations, and type of suits, are qualified to receive "free" money.  It does specify "judges to award attorney fees" so it would appear to not be automatic.  I can't imagine a judge being sympathetic to the NRA--I'm funny that way.

If it's a civil rights suit you qualify.  If they refuse to award damages, take it up the chain.  Demand bigger fees.

Coming soon...

New Orleans Police Chief reports that all the confiscated weapons were lost when the rescue boat transporting them struck submerged debris and capsized.  The lone deputy piloting the boat was uninjured.  The Chief called the loss "a tragic boating accident..."

Quoted: That only overs attorney fees...you do know that there is a lot more involved right?   Based on your argument the ACLU doesn't need to receive membership money either, correct?  Yet they do and they have big money backers like George Soros donating $4 million chucks of cash to the ACLU.   Why is he doing that and why are they collecting membership dues if they have "unlimited resources" flowing in from Uncle Sammy?

Attorney's fees are a big chunk of money.  Most of these organizations have salaried legal employees.  They're going to pay these attorneys ANYWAY.  Now they just got all the billable hours for free.  That money they already budgeted can go to cover additional expenses.  They got almost $600,000 just from the case removing Roy Moore's bible monument.   That's a free $600,000 from one case.  They files  these cases by the truckload in a year.  

Quoted: Quoted: Now, we need to PROSECUTE those officers of the law who committed armed robbery under colour of their authority. -FGJ [Peter Gibbons] This is America, not Riyahd! [/prosecute? COPS?? hahahaha]

It is true that the offending officers will NEVER be prosecuted, but the department and the state should be sued in civil court for a violation of the Constitution.  The problem is that an actual agrieved party must bring this action.  The NRA can't do that.  

Brian

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Now, we need to PROSECUTE those officers of the law who committed armed robbery under colour of their authority. -FGJ [Peter Gibbons] This is America, not Riyahd! [/prosecute? COPS?? hahahaha] It is true that the offending officers will NEVER be prosecuted, but the department and the state should be sued in civil court for a violation of the Constitution.  The problem is that an actual agrieved party must bring this action.  The NRA can't do that.   Brian

Ok...so where are the two guys that we saw being zip tied in front of the mansion?  (the ones who said the PO's were mad because they had bigger guns then them)   Considering their ordeal was caught on tape I would think that would provide enough proof of what happened in a court.

Quoted: Quoted: That only overs attorney fees...you do know that there is a lot more involved right?   Based on your argument the ACLU doesn't need to receive membership money either, correct?  Yet they do and they have big money backers like George Soros donating $4 million chucks of cash to the ACLU.   Why is he doing that and why are they collecting membership dues if they have "unlimited resources" flowing in from Uncle Sammy? Attorney's fees are a big chunk of money.  Most of these organizations have salaried legal employees.  They're going to pay these attorneys ANYWAY.  Now they just got all the billable hours for free.  That money they already budgeted can go to cover additional expenses.  They got almost $600,000 just from the case removing Roy Moore's bible monument.   That's a free $600,000 from one case.  They files  these cases by the truckload in a year.

But you still didn't answer my question.  Based on your argument that the NRA has access to "unlimited resources" (which you feel lets gun owners off the hook) how do you explain the fact that the ACLU collects membership dues and relies on people like George Soros to make massive contributions?  If these "unlimited resources" exist why are they (ACLU) still receiving funds from individuals?

I made the statement that if the NRA had just 10 million members they could be more effective and you argued against that saying they had access to "unlimited resources" but it's apparent that the ACLU (which you used as an example) does not have "unlimited resources" because they still receive millions from members.

Quoted: M4arc, answers to specific questions seem to be hard to come by.   Basher:  The NRA should do more--they are worthless, and I'm not giving them one cent of my money! Me:  What "more" should they do? Basher:  Lots of stuff!  They are WORTHLESS! Me:  What EXACTLY?   Basher:  They only care about hunters--they aren't getting any of MY money! Me:  We've established you aren't willing to pony up--what "more" should they do?  Please be very specific-- Basher:  They waste money on BS and don't do a damned thing that's productive! Me:  What "productive" thing can they do? Basher:  You NRA apologists make me sick--you have your nose up Wayne LaPierre's ass so far you can't see the truth!  You drink the Kool-Aid--they aren't getting a cent of my money until they actually accomplish something! Me:  What "truth" is that?  They "accomplish(ed)" the expiration of the AWB--isn't that "something?" And so on . . .

While I would like to see the NRA do more and take more of a hard nosed approach to these types of issues I have to call BS on those that think membership is not tied to what the NRA can or could accomplish.

I understand that the NRA pisses people off but to suggest that they could fight the battle on all fronts with only 4 million members is ridiculous.   And it seems like the same people that refuse to become members are the same people that complain the most.  Ironic, isn't it?

Quoted:


"My membership is set to expire in Oct.  As I've said before, they won't get a cent until I see some action against the city, the mayor, the Chief of Police and the officers involved.  Civil right suits and civil suits for damages."  




Anyone want to bet that this guy used the same "threat" before the AWB sunset as well??? Talk about getting the max amount of effort for that $35....



   - georgestrings

Quoted: But you still didn't answer my question.  Based on your argument that the NRA has access to "unlimited resources" (which you feel lets gun owners off the hook) how do you explain the fact that the ACLU collects membership dues and relies on people like George Soros to make massive contributions?  If these "unlimited resources" exist why are they (ACLU) still receiving funds from individuals? I made the statement that if the NRA had just 10 million members they could be more effective and you argued against that saying they had access to "unlimited resources" but it's apparent that the ACLU (which you used as an example) does not have "unlimited resources" because they still receive millions from members.

And no one ever donates millions to the NRA?  There are millionares and gun industry giants funneling money in.

The NRA will never get 10 million members if it doesn't agressively push it's agenda.  I been a supporter for many years and I've watched them mellow out.  Support some gun control measures.  Water down their rhetoric.   Always I sent moeny and membership dues.  

Well, no more free money.  Start pushing or no cash.

It's that simple.   Where's the civil rights suits?

Good news about the suit and the restraining order. Glad I'm a member.

Quoted: I heard a report that many of the confiscated guns are now missing. Wonder what happened to them?

One of our resident JBT brown shirts said that his buddies either handed out "confiscated" (i.e., stolen) guns to rescue workers or they disassembled them and threw them in the water. I suspect many a CHP JBT will be going home with a nice addition to his personal collection.

Better late than never.

Quoted: Quoted: Can I criticize now??!!!  The press release says the NRA filed the motion today in Federal Court.  Law-abiding citizens were getting their weapons seized more than two weeks ago! The United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana has been shut down for a couple of weeks due to the fact that it was located in a disaster area. They just recently opened a temporary office in Baton Rouge. How were they going to file if the court in that district was closed ?

Civil rights do not take a break becuase a local courthouse has some water in it.  You file in the next higer court, who would be assigned that flooded courts case load in any basic disaster plan.

"No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons."
Deputy Police Chief Warren Riley

ABC News Report On Gun Confiscation (VIDEO)