Ok, let's end this discussion, we'll just agree to disagree.

Yes, for most people it's an emotional event. I guess I'm just spent emotionally. I didn't feel the same outrage that many of you felt while watching the Danny Pearl beheading video. I just don't really feel outrage that much anymore. People are people, we're all different. What can I say? There's evil in this world but it's overwelmingly good (I'll believe that until proven otherwise).

I was one of those kids that read too many books and worried about everything when I was little. Now I want to be like my maternal grandfather (who's still alive), he has this really humorous and nice approach to life. My mom once remarked that the sky can fall down and he wouldn't worry. My whole family used to worry about him because he would make fun of the communists in their faces (but the commies were too dense to get the jokes). He said, don't worry about it, they're too stupid to realize I'm making fun of them. I want to be like that. In the worst of times, humor is one of those things that keeps you going.

He's such a funny guy. When I was little, and my dad would spank me, my grandfather would always sneak quietly behind my dad's back and make faces to make me laugh. And then my dad would turn around and yell at him, and we'd both burst out in laughter. We nicknamed my dad "the Big Tiger" cause he's yelling at us all the time. My grandfather would make all sorts of humorous observations about "the Big Tiger". That made such a deep impression on me because instead of being mad or depressed, I just find something funny (and there are plenty given how dumb I can be) and laugh about it.

Now why don't we all find something funny to laugh about? [:D]

It's not psycho-babble if I'm looking at this from all angles instead of calling him an idiot... geez... [rolleyes]

This right here is EXACTLY why y'all never win arguments with anti-gunners and why y'all are always posting about how frustrated you are afterwards.  Y'all don't look at where someone else is coming from... and you don't know how to tailor your rebuttal.  

Let me elaborate...

September 11th is now a historical event, albeit a tragic one.

The majority of people on this thread are very emotional about the subject. (As are anti-gunners... they are always coming from an emotional place on the subject.)

One person is extremely objective... saying it is no different from any past or present tragic event.  (This is the RKBA side.  Let's look at the whole situation and argue it on an entirely cerebral and logical level.)

These two sides will NEVER come to any compromise... they are arguing from entirely different planes.  An emotional argument (especially fear-based) warrants an assurance-type rebuttal.  A logical argument is followed by a rational comeback.

And you know what happens?  The emotional side gets mad and calls the other side names and the logical side gets frustrated and gives up.

There's always a middle ground.. it just seems so few people want to reach it.

i've got a question, if this, like many other posts, had been written by a GUY, would it have gotten as many responses?
just something i noticed.
[:)]

Dude.. the thread got hijacked...or didn't you notice?  LOL

BB, great for you!! Take a nice ride with the car and have a picnic. give it a name and treat it well.

jz02, my sadness this afternoon ( and it happens to be a nice one here), is that one of our youth, namely you, should feel this way. Let's hear it for the draft, so that you can provide the same measure of support for your nation that others have given. Try walking where others have gone, and sit there and think of your own loved ones in the process. Shit, man, words cannot begin to express the way I feel about your isolated, academic, upper east side interpretation of world (or NY) affairs! In the words of my Sainted Irish Grandmother "Foc Ya!"

yeah !  what ARgon said. thanks neighbor.

You think I'm coming from an academic angle? Either you can't read or I can't write, because I can assure you have just missed a large chunk of what I said.

I put in all those anecdotes about my family preciously because THAT is where I'm coming from. I didn't learn any of this stuff in school or in a book, but from the countless family stories that were told to me when I was little by my parents and my grandparents. They survived decades of war and communism, put up with crap far worse than simply someone blowing up a couple of buildings. You won't believe the degrading and the sick stuff the Red Guards are capable of. I believe what I believe because that is what I concluded from the countless family stories that I've heard, that this is the best way to survive life. My mom have always told me that no matter what happens, I must always keep my mind open and positive. That I should never lose hope, in the long run, survival is what counts. If you can survive seven decades of some of the worst sh*t humanity has ever invented (although some of it is quite humorous in retrospect. Starvation wasn't funny then but if you think about what caused it now, it's so ridiculous. Consider Mao's Great Leap Forward, I mean the foolishness is hilarious. The funniest thing is that the commies will order it with a straight face and take it completely serious), with your sanity intact, then what the hell does everything else matter?

...[rolleyes]

jz02,
you just dont get it do you kid? quit giving us excerpts about your family's past and their struggle; quit giving us history lessons. [b]ALL[/b] our families had their chance at a hard life and frankly, we can do without the history lessons.

God damn you! dont you understand that people died in that attack??? dont you understand that some of our members either had close friends or loved ones that died there? dont you understand that some of our members were directly involved in the attempts to find or rescue survivors? [b]WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND?[/b] are you a citizen of the United States? if you are, i question where your loyalties lie. if you arent, you are the most insensitive, callous, self-centered, immature, FOREIGNER on our Sacred Shores. get the hell out. we dont need your kind. just get out. start by getting the hell out of the forums.

simply amazing...

most of you here who are responding to the "kid" are acting more immature.

His first statements were a bit out of line, but come on... he has a point. I dont think he posted it the proper way in the begenning, but it's not the end of the world.

I'm impressed with several of you all's posts... want to kick someone out of the country for not thinking like you? heh. Grow up.

I am just as concerned that people on this gun site are this immature and easily angered as I am about terrorists. After all, we KNOW you have guns, and are obviously overly sensitive. (granted, the same can be said of extremists of other things, not just gunowners)

yes I'm a US citizen, I have a US passport and everything. My whole family are US citizens.

People die, such is life. I've never lost someone close, so I wouldn't know what that's like. I don't know anyone that has lost anyone. Amazingly, one of my good school buddies, his mom works at WTC but she's on vacation that week.

Consider that the government has issued numerous warnings recently. What if they attack again and more people die? Then what do we do? Just look at Israel and see what they put up with. We're really very lucky to be in this country. You probbaly don't need me to tell you this, but most of the world isn't as civilized as we are here in the United States. I visited China a few times, I can't even breathe the air over there. (I'll start liking China when I start enjoying non-stop diahrea [:D]) So why do you say that I'm ungrateful or unpatriotic? About the only other counties that I'd ever consider living in is Germany or England. England because I have a lot of relatives there and Germany because I love their environment. Their air is breatheable.

I consider myself a very patriotic American. I appreciate and enjoy all that this great country has to offer. Would I do my share to serve and defend it? Absolutely, in fact, before I applied to college I first talked to a recruiter. I applied to college after failing the physical, because my eyes are too highly nearsighted and astigmatized it's not correctable to 20/20 with normal glasses (I passed everything else though). I will continue to keep my eyes open (please don't make fun of my eyesight, it's not my fault I have bad genes) for opportunities to serve and defend my fellow Americans (even if it's not military).

I'm sorry if I have offended people, but I won't apologize for my feelings. It's not my duty as an American to go on an emotional rollercoaster everytime something bad happens to the country. I will serve the country with my actions, not my anger.

I know some of you think I'm some spoiled rotten high school kid right now. We may also disagree on certain things such as personal feelings. But I think deep down inside we all want the same thing, the best for ourselves, our families, and our fellow Americans.

Edited to Add, I won't lie about the fact that I don't share the victim's pain. I lost no one close to me, and neither did anyone I know. I won't lie about the fact that this distances me somewhat emotionally from the whole incident. I won't pretend that I'm a victim when in fact I'm not. I want to be honest about my feelings. I don't want to pretend to be traumatized when in fact I'm not. I have a very mild temperment, some here have hotter ones. But that's ok, some like it hot. [:)] I know people who pretend they feel the pain, and I just can't do that. I won't fake my feelings toward 9/11, because THAT would be disrespectful and narcissistic. I don't care if people think I'm cold hearted, at least I'm being honest. This is one moral principal that I've decided that I should hold myself to, that I would hold honesty over popularity.

... Sure, I think emotions are still high, but [b]jz02[/b] point is solid. He never once condoned the actions.
Collateral attrition is a fact of war.
Any soldier worth his salt knows that.
Besides, his point has been all along that the bastards can't get to us. They'd like to think they can but they can't. We'll kick their asses.
Not everyone on board can view the event with seemingly cold hearted callousness but the point should be taken.

... Suck it in!

(along not alone)

eh, those military elitists. So picky [:D]

With so many people disqualified due to eyesight, you'd think the military should spend major bucks on vision research because that will do more to solve their recruitment problems than glitzy ads and video games.

uh, another double post

HEY MAN
The MAZDA is a sweet car. I used to be a mazda employee and I know you will love it.
Dont let the bastards bring you down!
               [:D]
HAPPY POST
HAPPY POST

Before some of you start bashing foreigners, you have to consider what they went through before coming here. My family consider ourselves lucky that we're here. You have no idea how many Chinese people would LOVE to be in this country right now. For a lot of people, it's the allure of economic opportunity.

For me, my family just got fed up with living in China and my parents immigrated at the first opportunity. My mom told me that once my grandfather remarked [in reference to China], this place isn't fit for human beings. (of course the fact that my grandparents got labeled landlords and intellectuals after the revolution didn't help). I mean it's funny just to think about the foolishness of communism. My grandparents burned and destroyed all their valuables and heirlooms so they wouldn't be labeled capitalists (the only thing worse than an intellectual and a landlord). So you have a dirt poor country and everyone with something valuable would be burning it or destroying it so he wouldn't be caught by the commies. It's like their solution to poverty is to destroy wealth.

The only thing they didn't destroy was my great grand father's fur coat from his college years in Japan. The Red Guards found it one day in a house search and beat him (he was 80something) unconscious with big canes. Then they wouldn't let my mom and my aunt help him change until all the blood has dried so they'd have to peel the scabs off and it'd hurt like hell. Those people deserve to be poor. I hope this country never fall to communism.

What I find incredibly offensive is that so many people associate Chinese with communism. My school had the annual Asian Cultural Society lunar New Year show and as part of the program they did one of those Chairman Mao's commie dances. That ruined the show for me because most Chinese people don't know what communism is. And for the Chinese who are actually educated, most of them hate communism. And my dislike for communism isn't just from a theoretical standpoint either, because my family has first hand experience in the stupidity and cruelty of communist regimes.

My dad worked in Industrial Automation R&D there, and he graduated from the best engineering university there is in China. They paid the researchers less than anyone else. The people who got paid the most were political secretaries.

Few things upset me more than being called a commie just because I'm Chinese.

Ok, I was busy all day driving around in my new car, but I'm back to give my two cents worth now..

First off, I had no idea my little post would ever had blown up into such huge proportions over my september 11th comments..Obviously, like me, alot of other people have taken september 11th as a very sacred day in our memories and our hearts..

Now JZ...Listen, bringing up your families hardships really doesn't help you win this argument at all.. My father was in Vietnam and my grandfather in WWII, ancestors in both civil and revolutionary wars..so what???

The reason September 11th affected me so much was not only the fact that I had friends and relatives there that day (even though everyone turned out ok, that enough was scary!!). It was mainly because my generation which is inherantly YOUR generation hasn't really seen any violence in these proportions like this before (a war, hostages, etc) This was an event that changed the world forever.. Like it or not, those are the facts.. I am studying psychology in college and I believe that part of what you are going through is denial..You don't believe this could happen to you, just unknown, faceless people.. What I learned about September 11th is that it could happen to each and everyone of us..Please understand that I have no qualms with you or want to argue, just understand that this particular topic is one of the most sensative issues right now.. It touched people in a way nothing else has ever before or possibly will ever again..I am proud to be born and raised in NY and as a New Yorker those terrorists violated me personally, as they should have violated you as well.. That's all for now...
-Andrea

Congrats on the new car Blondy. [beer]

 I need a new truck.  My trip to the BRC in my old POS, hopefully will be uneventful.

Edit: Take a road trip to the BRC with your boy friend and new car.  If you don't have any/many gunz to bring, I'm sure there might be one or two around somewherez.  Hope ya make it! [:)]

Doug  

pardon the apparent abrasiveness of my next statement:  GET USED TO IT!!!!!!!  there's a small select group that consider the communist chinese as much or a bigger threat than the arab terrorists.  unfortunately, that breeds distrust and stereotyping.  just as every "arab" is now suspect in my eyes (rightly or wrongly, hey, i'd rather be suspicious and alive than tolerant and dead), anyone with an extreme distate for communist china isn't going to be exactly hospitable to a chinese person.  facts o' life.

IMO opinion it matters little what the people truly think unless they act on their beliefs.  as long as they enable the people in power to keep propogating that kind of crap, i consider them guilty by association.  harsh, i know.  but i still hold the people of the U.S. responsible for the demise of the representative offices we have.  why should i have a different set of standards for a different country?

besides, you're an american now, right?  what do you care what the chinese are doing?

by the way, i think i figured out why so many people found your first posts upsetting.  you had very little respect for death.  and through your words, you made it sound like you had no respect for the lives of the people who died.  small difference, but it wasn't obvious.  sorry for the headaches.

If the Chinease people ever get fed up enough over communism it will require that they get very very angry.  Until then nothing will change.  A comedian won't help them over throw communism.

Angry people get shit done.

Comedians write sitcoms.


Sgtar15

BB,


Congrats on the thread. Anytime you get this much attention you must have done someting right.

Yes thank you everybody for making me feel so popular.. Sorry I haven't updated in awhile; I have been having fun driving around in the car.. I am glad that everyone has gotten over their animosity towards jz...Yeah, he had some bad reasonings, but we all just need to just get along in this era of terrorism..That's all for now :)
-Andrea

Congratulations on the new car and happier times, BB.  I started to write a lot of stuff about 9/11 being this and that, but I think I'll just concentrate on your good fortune.  And thanks for allowing the media to interview you.  I think that I can say that all of us here on ar15.com have you NYC guys & gals in our hearts and prayers.  

Congrats again, and enjoy the new ride!!!!  [:D]

[In the larger scope of things]
BB, I'm not in denial. I think ARLady was closer to the mark, it's not that I don't think it can happen to me, it's just that I don't care. If I get killed, the world will still go round. And that pretty much goes for everyone, I don't think anyone is so singlehandedly important that the world can't survive without them.

[In the small scope of things]
Would I extend this argument to my family and loved ones? I would care if they were placed in harm's way, much more so than I would care for myself. However I would not expect you to care, in fact I'd probably take offense at such. Any such loss would be a deeply private thing for me, I'd never allow it to be shown in public. I feel that there's no way for anyone outside my family to truly feel my loss in such a case. I really resent people who display fake sympathy. I would respect someone much more for just leaving me alone in this case than someone who flaunts their emotional capabilities.

Since I'm assuming none of you have ever lived under a communist regime, I don't expect you to understand what my family went through, that's ok. You can't expect me to understand the true horrors of the holocaust because neither me nor anyone from my family would have any first hand experience. I never thought much of Schindler's List, but that's ok because obviously a Jewish person would feel more strongly about it than I would. I suppose I made a mistake trying to use my family history to explain my position and where I'm coming from.

BB, while we are technically in the same generation, we are two very different people. While the popular media would have you believe that the terrorist attacks somehow shattered our innocent belief in our security, I don't ever recall having such a belief. When I was a kid, I was a germaphobe, I washed my hands every 5 minutes because I was sick so often I thought I could die anytime. I was constantly afraid that I might die. I was sent to the hospital for all kinds of infections, I even had a brain infection once I think. So I guess I've resolved this issue a long time ago, I've never harbored any illusions of invulnerability. There are all sorts of events that has happened in my life that I'd rather not post here that pretty much forced me to thinking about death very early on in my life. I've long accepted that I can die at any moment.