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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:05:00 AM EDT
[#1]
M1QJ, ask yourself this: would you rather be driving your little fuel efficient commuter box or a large gas hogging SUV @ 55mph when a whitetail deer jumps into the road directly in your path, likely flipping over your low aero-efficient front end and through your windshield?
Fuel efficiency be damned. Wrap my ass in 2+ tons of steel, thank you very much. Fuel efficency is damn near the bottom of my list when I look for a vehicle. |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:05:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Gun-Fan- are your trucks 4WD or 2WD??? About the drafting thing...forgedaboudit where I drive- I'm not going to do 90MPH just to draft someone... You are calculating mileage as: miles traveled divided by gallons of fuel consumed, right??? Seriously, not even the fudged EPA numbers (we all know that these are inflated) come close to 20 MPG in ANY 'Burban. I have to see it to believe it- you should tell Chevy too, since they would love to make a full-sized SUV that gets that sort of mileage. I should have stated 2wd. I didn't realize you were talking 4wd. Maybe I will try some of your solutions to improve even more. Scott PS- I will check the gearing when I get home this eve. I have not had this truck for that long. I got it used last year & never really cared about the gearing. I do know that it will yank my boat right out of the lake & tow it like a champ at 65-70mph. Probably more, but I get antsy. |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:08:05 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Maybe someone should have just said: 'yeah, hybrid technology is nice, but we're wanting to discuss Suburbans here' It was said. You're just slow to take a hint. |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:10:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Geez. Talkin to you guyz is kinda like extolling the virtues of the wheel to neanderthals. Hmmmm. Do I detect a little superiority complex here? If I needed to move 8 people on a trip, I wouldn't use my car. Simply put. I [i]never[/i] hyped my vehicle on it's carrying capacity, nor claimed it was comparable or better in that aspect. This thread was about GAS MILEAGE only. NOT capacity, NOT size, NOT how many relatives got from point A to point B! It was about how to make gas powered SUV's more efficient by making them breathe easier. And your example, Torf, ignores that hybrid technology will one day be available, and heck, probably even mainstream in SUVs. Imagine the same type of vehicle (as the suburban) that got 30-40mpg. Put that in your comparison. Most logical arguement [b]should ignore[/b] technology that [b]might[/b] one day be available. Example: I cannot currently buy a 2015 Chevy Suburban with a 1.8 Liter Hybrid engine. Reason: It doesn't exist, and might never exist. Therefore it doesn't make a rational foundation for an arguement. Consumers ARE buying hybrid vehicles, there just aren't that many. Average Joe thinking "I wish I had a hybrid SUV" isn't just gonna make it appear. The industry has to MAKE one first, then see if Joe Average wants to buy it. Sink or swim from there. Lots of consumer technologies have gone through the same trials and tribulations. Remember BetaMax?? Apparently people don't like small vehicles. That's why they don't buy 'em. Chevy has produced 50 mpg vehicles for over 10 years now. They don't sell too well. There are instances, like I mentioned, like you mentioned, that one vehicle will perform immensely better than the other. Mine is a niche vehicle, I openly admit that. I'm more trying to extoll the virtues of hybrid technology, not just the Insight. I'm saying that someday, soon, SUVs like the Suburban will be capable of getting outstanding gas mileage compared to what they get today. It is my OPINION that the industry could already HAVE something out, but pussyfoot it, pumping out to the masses who are generally ignorant or apathetic. I disagree with your assessment of "the masses". You attitude is right in line with Stalin, Lenin, and Marx. People are idiots. Government needs to tell them how to live. Industry is out to make money. If there is a demand for weenie Suv's, the industry will be happy to oblige. You need a Suburban to haul 8 people with their luggage, that's great. Have at it. (I also think 8 people WITH all of their luggage is stretching it, even in a full size suburban... my buddy's Expedition was pretty full with me, him, his wife, our luggage and three dogs.) Dogs take up a lot of space, and Expeditions are way smaller than Suburbans. To sum up: On the merits of gas mileage ALONE, hybrid technology outperforms SUVs. Hybrid technology will eventually be available in SUVs, and will probably even be mainstream. If you want to ostricise me for holding this opinion, or if it is offensive to you, wait about 10 years and see if I'm right. When Hybrid equals or surpasses [b]every single aspect[/b] of gas engines, including cost, maintenance, reliability, and sound I will be on board. |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:11:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: M1QJ, ask yourself this: would you rather be driving your little fuel efficient commuter box or a large gas hogging SUV @ 55mph when a whitetail deer jumps into the road directly in your path, likely flipping over your low aero-efficient front end and through your windshield? Fuel efficiency be damned. Wrap my ass in 2+ tons of steel, thank you very much. Fuel efficency is damn near the bottom of my list when I look for a vehicle. There was only one vehicle in it's size/class that tested better in collisions. I have no reservations about driving my car anywhere. In an SUV, 'safety' is an illusion. You're only safer because MOST other cars are smaller, and are more prone to give in a collision. Everyone else on the road be damned, kill 'em all, you'll be safe. And when you have to hit your brakes and swerve to miss some obstacle, and your Suburban rolls over half a dozen times, what would you rather be in? |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:14:14 AM EDT
[#6]
Torf,
Do you believe that right NOW, with regular gas engines, that SUVs are INCAPABLE of much better gas mileage? Do you really believe that if you got a Suburban, that there is NO WAY possible they could have made it get better gas mileage?? |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:17:40 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: I'm not an enviro nazi, just like you're not some right wing crazy militia nut just because you own guns. Prejudice and stereotyping at it's best, and you did it. Good going. Cramped? I'm 6'1", 200lb and have PLENTY of leg and headroom in my Insight. So did my 6'4" 280lb friend in the passenger seat. Self righteous? Since when did I say anything that put myself above anyone else? NOWHERE. I never said ANYTHING about 'saving the environment'. I like the technology involved. I like the gas mileage I get. I don't go out and hug trees like you must assume I do. In many aspects, I'm just one of you, I just drive a different car. Sheesh, get over it. You did say a bunch of Environmental BS in another thread which you hijacked like this one. Damn guys, why don't you just line me up and shoot me or something?? I bring up hybrid technology and tout it's benefits, and you all go on the defensive! Yeesh. We'll never get anywhere as gun owners acting like this. They'll call us yahoos, and you know what? They'll be RIGHT. Nobody wants to shoot anyone here. Don't be melodramatic. Now you are calling us Yahoos? All because we like big vehicles? I can accept the fact that the truck-nazi thinks I am a yahoo. Maybe someone should have just said: 'yeah, hybrid technology is nice, but we're wanting to discuss Suburbans here' The author of this thread said that. Where is your head? Maybe we should go find our own little car boards and hype our vehicles, and sing to our own choirs. No. Start your own thread extolling the virtues of driving the Honda Insight. |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:25:46 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: In an SUV, 'safety' is an illusion. You're only safer because MOST other cars are smaller, and are more prone to give in a collision. Everyone else on the road be damned, kill 'em all, you'll be safe. Heh. Works for me! |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:28:49 AM EDT
[#9]
I can see this is becoming a place (thread) where you agree with everyone else, or you're not welcome. Discussion gets boring when everyone agrees. Nobody would progress anywhere if there weren't people with different points of view.
I have a different point of view, and I expressed it here, and pretty much got ostricized by the good ol boys with the large vehicles. well EXCUSE me for having a different POV. EXCUSE me for trying to talk about it a little bit. Geez. I now know I can't talk about vehicles with the members of this board without being labeled, simply because of the type of car I drive. It feels so good being lumped in with a different class of people because of what I own. It's become as bad as the Anti's. Over a CAR for chrissakes! I just started talking about hybrid technology/vehicles and was almost immediately put down. Read the thread. See how other views are treated. Damn. Fuck it. I'm still going to laugh past the gas pumps. When the technology is mainstream, I will wear the 'I told you so' grin. Fuck it. Call me what you want. You're just as bad as the anti's. |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:31:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Torf, Do you believe that right NOW, with regular gas engines, that SUVs are INCAPABLE of much better gas mileage? Do you really believe that if you got a Suburban, that there is NO WAY possible they could have made it get better gas mileage?? Sure they are capable of better mileage. 1. Extend the front of the vehicle out about 10 ft. Make it real pointy. We want the air to flow real smoothly. 2. Do the same with the rear. We are going for a boat-tail thing here. Less drag. 3. Remove about 1000 lbs of steel from the car by trimming unnecesary bars, struts and panels. convert much of the remaining steel into aluminum. 4. Remove the exhaust system. 5. Burn leaded gas 6. Place large solar panels on the roof, replacing the need for an alternator. 7. Delete the AC. 8. Replace the 350 396 or 454 with a hi-revving 1.3 liter 4 banger. 9. Build a transmission with gear ratios 2.0 1.5 1.0 and .7. 10. Remove passenger seats, because hey, no one needs that much utility! 11. Replace the (heavy)glass with Force Fields which weigh nothing. They might be invented in the future! There you go. 11 suggestions that will work, and will never happen. They are stupid ideas. They will ruin the current truck, and make it extremely expensive. Sure it is possible, but not while keeping the vehicle useful/affordable/safe. |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 11:35:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: I can see this is becoming a place (thread) where you agree with everyone else, or you're not welcome. Discussion gets boring when everyone agrees. Nobody would progress anywhere if there weren't people with different points of view. I have a different point of view, and I expressed it here, and pretty much got ostricized by the good ol boys with the large vehicles. well EXCUSE me for having a different POV. EXCUSE me for trying to talk about it a little bit. Geez. I now know I can't talk about vehicles with the members of this board without being labeled, simply because of the type of car I drive. It feels so good being lumped in with a different class of people because of what I own. It's become as bad as the Anti's. Over a CAR for chrissakes! I just started talking about hybrid technology/vehicles and was almost immediately put down. Read the thread. See how other views are treated. Damn. Fuck it. I'm still going to laugh past the gas pumps. When the technology is mainstream, I will wear the 'I told you so' grin. Fuck it. Call me what you want. You're just as bad as the anti's. Be it as it may, you do crack me up! If you invite arguement, don't get all whiney when it comes knocking! And by the way, you lost the arguement, that's why you are whining. |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 3:02:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: The technology used in hybrids would be just as applicable to trucks. I'd love to get 25-30 mpg out of a suburban, and that would be quite feasable with current technology. Well, 20mpg is easy in a Suburban - get an older one with a 6.2L or 6.5L diesel, 3.42 or 3.73 gears, and overdrive transmission. Take off and accelerate sensibly, use cruise control or watch your speed closely, and keep the air filter clean (paper or Amsoil, K&N doesn't filter very well as others have said.) I get about 20mpg highway in my non-OD 85 K10 w/6.2L, so that should be your low mileage in a Suburban. |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 3:43:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: oh well... I think I'm through kicking a dead horse. I'll just go on laughing at the guys pumping $50 worth of gas in their SUVs, and still go less distance than I go on $15 worth. When I need to haul 8 people with luggage, I'll get an SUV. You'll need a second vehicle in that case, and there goes the money you'd been saving by having the high mpg hybrid. Personally, if mileage was my sole concern, I'd just get a TDI Jetta and be happy with my 45-50mpg, peppy performance, 4-passenger+luggage capacity, 300K+ mile lifespan, and the [b]utter simplicity[/b] of the diesel engine. How long are your electric motors rated to last? How much will it cost to get the brushes replaced, commutator turned, etc? I may be wrong, but I think regenerative braking is pretty hard on electric motors - you'll probably start seeing wear on the commutator bars from the motor being "stalled" during regen braking. "$$ Chaching! $$" If you're getting 7-12mpg more than the TDI, but your lifetime maintenance costs are doubled, you're losing money regardless of the better mileage. |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 6:20:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: "It shows up as glycerin (sand) in your oil during sample testing." AZcop, what the hell are you talking about? Glycerin is a viscous, short chain poly alcohol used in making candy, dynamite and smokeless powder amongst other things. Sand is silicon dioxide... O.K., I can't find the article I read, so if I used the wrong word when I said glycerin, sorry, but the bottom line is the Amsoil air filters as well as paper, and much better than K&N. One can purchase Amsoil air filters online at [url]www.amsoil.com[/url] Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 6:26:32 PM EDT
[#15]
One more thing to consider:
The fullsize trucks that Torf, Diss, Gun-Fan, and I own, love, and use daily all share 1 common trait: they're paid for! How much longer are you going to be paying the loan on your car? If I don't let the body deteriorate, this truck will last as long as I will. Maintenance is inexpensive when dealing with these trucks. For instance, I can put a new, warrantied, Goodwrench 350 under the hood of my '83 K20 for under $1500. To paraphrase Click and Clack (the Tappet Brothers): Which is better: One 30,000 dollar car or ten 3,000 dollar cars? |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 7:04:37 PM EDT
[#16]
M1QJ...
Consider this... A head-on collision involving my 6100lb gas guzzling 454 powered '94 Suburban, and your new 1800lb "hybrid" vehicle... What's left of you would be scooped up with a shovel... Chances are, I'd have more damage to my truck if I hit a deer... I understand your angle, but your ONLY benefit is gas mileage... To have such "wonderful" gas mileage, you drive a lightwieght, underpowered, unpractical girl's-car... If that's what makes you happy, good for you... I'll GLADLY dump 42 gallons of gas in my vehicle for the size, power, and safety it provides... When I drive down the road, there's no need to make rollover inducing manuevers, everyone gets out of MY way or swaps paint with me... Unlike the "hybrid", my big 'ole Suburban won't tip over on a windy day either... Put that in your pipe and smoke it... |
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Posted: 5/28/2002 7:12:56 PM EDT
[#17]
"...a liberal guy
And a liberal gal Drive a Yugo..." |
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Posted: 5/29/2002 7:54:14 AM EDT
[#18]
I get about 20mpg highway in my non-OD 85 K10 w/6.2L, so that should be your low mileage in a Suburban. You are probably miscalculating your mileage, or drafting 18-wheelers on the highway... As I stated earlier, a BRAND NEW Suburban will barely approach 18MPG highway, and that is a smaller, lighter, and less powerful vehicle than the older models. As one board member put it earlier in this thread- there are three things that almost every man lies about... 1) his penis size 2) how many women he's slept with 3) his gas mileage |
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Posted: 5/29/2002 8:02:23 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: I can see this is becoming a place (thread) where you agree with everyone else, or you're not welcome. Discussion gets boring when everyone agrees. I have a different point of view, and I expressed it here, and pretty much got ostricized by the good ol boys with the large vehicles. You're just as bad as the anti's. M1QJ, As a fellow brother in arms, I would respectfully ask you to take the BS elsewhere. I will overlook your attempts to equate Suburban drivers with the anti's if you will take the circus outa here. What you have done to my thread is the same thing as if you posted a thread about how wonderful the mileage on your hybrid was, and I started bragging that my motorcycle gets much better mileage than your car- [rhetorical question]wouldn't I be missing the point of your thread in that hypothetical? [/rhetorical question] Thanks in advance, and I would love to have an environmental/hybrid discussion with you on another thread. This is not an attempt to stifle healthy conversation about new exciting technology, but your desired vein of conversation is not what was intended in this thread. (straight from the horse's mouth) Now, if you have any PRACTICAL ideas on how to further improve my Suburban's mileage, without costing lots of money or sacrificing its utility, please do so. Again, I respectfully ask you to take your discussion somewhere other than this thread. [argue] -Diss |
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Posted: 5/29/2002 8:05:47 AM EDT
[#20]
ONCE AGAIN: WHERE IN THE HOLY HELL CAN I BUY AN AMSOIL AIR FILTER???
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Posted: 5/29/2002 8:12:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: M1QJ, As a fellow brother in arms, I would respectfully ask you to take the BS elsewhere. I will overlook your attempts to equate Suburban drivers with the anti's if you will take the circus outa here. Thanks in advance, and I would love to have an environmental/hybrid discussion with you on another thread. This is not an attempt to stifle healthy conversation about technology, but your desired vein of conversation is not what was intended in this thread. Now, if you have any PRACTICAL ideas on how to further improve my Suburban's mileage, without costing lots of money or sacrificing its utility, please do so. Again, I respectfully ask you to take your discussion somewhere other than this thread. [argue] -Diss Diss, discussion on the Hybrid stuff has been taken to another board. As far as what input I can give about increasing efficiency of the Suburban as it is, I feel that there just isn't much room for improvement, short of a change in the way it's powered. That's why I brought up the whole hybrid thing. I think any improvement in large vehicles' efficiency is great, and I look forward to seeing how the auto industry approaches that. Anything you can do will be great. My suggestions from my experience would be like this: Under lighter loads, run your tire pressure higher. This will reduce rolling resistance. Your use of a different air cleaner is good, but like some people have mentioned about the K&N is that they allow more airflow, but allow more particles through. More particles = dirtier engines. You'll go through oil faster, and wear your engine out, which could hurt it's power and efficiency in the future. You may have to order that Amsoil filter. I'd like to find one for my car, and see if I can tweak a few more MPGs out of it. respectfully and peacefully, M1QJ |
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Posted: 5/29/2002 8:18:10 AM EDT
[#22]
Now, that's the civil way to handle disputes like this---no need to have some monkey-ass lock our thread because we can't play nice together.
Thanks for having the maturity and wisdom to heed my advice- see you around the boards. |
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Posted: 5/29/2002 9:05:26 AM EDT
[#23]
I see...Everybody on the planet should drive Suburbans and Excursions so that we are all safe from deer and each other. We must have a huge SUV to drive individually to work and back every day. We must run ourselves out of oil ASAP so we are not so reliant upon it from the middle east. The REALLY funny thing is that sooner or later, Hybrids will be the ONLY vehicles on the road. This may not happen in our lifetime, but it WILL happen. This argument really has no real point because us being all stubboren Americans refuse to give up our large vehicles-don't get me wrong, I am guilty of not owning the most efficient vehicles also. I just see changes ahead...
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Posted: 5/29/2002 10:06:17 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I see... The REALLY funny thing is that sooner or later, Hybrids will be the ONLY vehicles on the road. This may not happen in our lifetime, but it WILL happen. This argument really has no real point because us being all stubboren Americans refuse to give up our large vehicles-don't get me wrong, I am guilty of not owning the most efficient vehicles also. I just see changes ahead... Thanks Cleatus, we all appreciate your point of view. [rolleyes] |
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Posted: 5/29/2002 2:40:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: I get about 20mpg highway in my non-OD 85 K10 w/6.2L, so that should be your low mileage in a Suburban. You are probably miscalculating your mileage, or drafting 18-wheelers on the highway... Nope, I've done this about a dozen times, never using a sample of less than 1000 miles. Average mileage is 20mpg (40% interstate, 60% highway/city), and on long trips on the interstate I've gotten 23mpg. People I know with trucks similar to mine (mid-to-late-80s 6.2L diesel, 4x4, 3.08 gears) but with OD trannies see about 27-28mpg highway, and 22-23mpg mixed (OD isn't used much around town and torque converter lockup in 3rd gear doesn't make a very big difference.) As I stated earlier, a BRAND NEW Suburban will barely approach 18MPG highway, and that is a smaller, lighter, and less powerful vehicle than the older models. As one board member put it earlier in this thread- there are three things that almost every man lies about... 1) his penis size 2) how many women he's slept with 3) his gas mileage One word - [b]diesel[/b]. They get 40-60% better mileage than a comparably-sized gas engine when empty, and 80-100% better mileage when loaded. Turbocharging gives performance on a level with a gas engine, and doesn't harm mileage - it often actually increases mileage due to more of the injected fuel being burned since there's more air for it to mix with. If my truck was turbocharged, wasn't pushing 275K miles, and my fuel rate wasn't turned up to 46mm3/stroke, I'd probably see another 2-3mpg. |
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Posted: 5/30/2002 5:24:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: ONCE AGAIN: WHERE IN THE HOLY HELL CAN I BUY AN AMSOIL AIR FILTER??? [url]http://www.lubespecialist.com/filterair.htm[/url] Also, a few more suggestions for increasing fuel mileage. First, clean up the exterior - remove roof racks if you're not using them, don't leave towing-style mirrors permanently attached, and install air dams under the front bumper. Off-road lights, driving lights, CB antennae, etc, all cause wind resistance. Consider having your hood louvered, it allows all the air that's rammed into your engine compartment through the grille to smoothly exit rather than slamming into the firewall then eventually ending up underneath the vehicle and causing lots of drag. Running synthetic lube in the axles, transmission, and transfer case will reduce friction as well. Narrower tires have less resistance than wider ones. Run your tires at the highest air pressure that causes them to wear evenly across the tread. Keep the vehicle as low as you can for your expected driving conditions. |
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