[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Mormons - explain this to me (Page 8 of 11)
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I was raised mormon, dad was a bishop and all that noise. Great people, had a lot of fun in youth groups, but stopped going when I got a girlfriend and discovered the wonderful sin of premarital sex. What the fuck is up with garments? I know my parents wear them, but until now, I never really thought about. Are you allowed to take them off for sex? Do you have to sleep in them? ETA Totally not bashing, love mormons, just dont share beliefs, still friends with tons Yes, you can take them off for sex. Yes, you can sleep without them. |
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As long as we're on the subject, do the garments go over or under bras and underwear? Quoted:
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I was raised mormon, dad was a bishop and all that noise. Great people, had a lot of fun in youth groups, but stopped going when I got a girlfriend and discovered the wonderful sin of premarital sex. What the fuck is up with garments? I know my parents wear them, but until now, I never really thought about. Are you allowed to take them off for sex? Do you have to sleep in them? ETA Totally not bashing, love mormons, just dont share beliefs, still friends with tons Surprised that you'd go to a bunch of anonymous folks than your own parents considering that your parents know the answer. 
Of course we don't wear undergarments for sex, or showering, or swimming. Yes, we sleep in them. As long as we're on the subject, do the garments go over or under bras and underwear? Prepare for your mind to be blown: They ARE underwear. Bras go over them I guess. My wife isnt Mormon so I don't know. |
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I pack all the time, guess i shouldn't mention that to my Bishop. Quoted:
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And yet I had to leave my Glock in my hotel room when I went to see Music and the Spoken Word. 
You aren't the only one frustrated by that. Per Utah law, a church must post itself on a list managed by the BCI in order to ban firearms from all church properties. Here is the list. You'll notice something interesting about it. http://bci.utah.gov/concealed-firearm/general-information/houses-of-worship-prohibiting-firearms-on-premises/ I once asked my previous bishop about the matter. His response was, "if it's concealed, who is going to know?" Also, the consequence of being found with a firearm in a church building is being asked to remove the firearm from the premises. Refusal to remove the weapon is a trespassing charge if you have your CCL. Unless I'm missing something, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only church that bans guns. I didn't check into what would happen if I got caught. Coming from a state with very few restrictions on where you can carry (if you're fortunate enough to get a CCW), I'm very careful to obey statutory restrictions like that, so I left the gun behind. I'd rather have had it with me, but the convention center and Temple Square seemend really safe on a sunny Sunday morning. I pack all the time, guess i shouldn't mention that to my Bishop. Your Bishop is probably packing too. |
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Quoted: http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/breaking-new-dna-testing-2000-year-old-elongated-paracas-skulls-changes-020914?nopaging=1 So, new studies show this skull was most likely from the ME yet was found in Peru. How do you reconcile that? "The full lab reports of the DNA tests are available in LA Marzulli’s book Nephilim Hybrids." Seems legit. |
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Some of the get-ups Marie Osmond wore don't seem to be able to hide that. Are there "reduced footprint" versions for sports and entertainment? Quoted:
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My wife doesn't seem to mind them. They are made out of several different materials so you can get hot weather types or even cold weather materials. Some of the get-ups Marie Osmond wore don't seem to be able to hide that. Are there "reduced footprint" versions for sports and entertainment? No. You either wear them or you don't. |
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As am I. I'm not LDS, but have known some. I once worked with a man who was self-proclaimed 'devout' (my adjective, not his) LDS. He believed that Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath on that "city of evil" (that IS what he said), and that Vegas should be next. EVERY group of individuals will have its bad apples, I get that. But I would be interested in hearing what those (who know more about LDS than I) have to say about that man's opinions He truly thought that the death of thousands was not only justified, but preferable and welcome. Quoted:
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Never the less I am in to learn a little more. As am I. I'm not LDS, but have known some. I once worked with a man who was self-proclaimed 'devout' (my adjective, not his) LDS. He believed that Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath on that "city of evil" (that IS what he said), and that Vegas should be next. EVERY group of individuals will have its bad apples, I get that. But I would be interested in hearing what those (who know more about LDS than I) have to say about that man's opinions He truly thought that the death of thousands was not only justified, but preferable and welcome. meh... i don't have much of a problem with that. Anyway.... 
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I'm not a mormon, but I've met a good amount. They all seem like nice people to me and I respect them because they are clean, well mannered, seem like good Americans and appear to have great family values. I'm sure if you went to a temple or posted in the religion forum you'd get an actual educated answer from a real member. Here. As far as I'm concerned they can believe whatever they want, it looks like its working for them. This is spot on... I have the Book of Mormon laying around here somewhere, given to me by my Biochem professor in college who was also the Bishop of the local LDS church. They aren't just good people, they are great people. I spent a lot of time with this guy and his family and the Mormon community in my college town. They invited me into their homes during the holidays as well as family vacations when they knew I didn't have the f funds to travel and be with my own family when school was not in session and I wasn't working. Not once did they try and convert me to their religion, although I did attend church services once or twice out of curiosity. The majority of the people I met out there that were LDS were some of the happiest I've ever seen regardless of their lot in life ... OP, if learning about LDS is of interest to you go find some Mormons to talk to, they will be more than happy to answer any questions you have. |
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Quoted: Verses 13&14? What of it? Still doesn't explain why sooner or later you won't learn enough to do your own thing. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can man become a God (like the Doctrine and Covenants says)? was God once a man? So much for Isaiah 14. Verses 13&14? What of it? Still doesn't explain why sooner or later you won't learn enough to do your own thing. "I will make myself like the Most High" is pompous, arrogant, and blasphemous. |
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Quoted: This is spot on... I have the Book of Mormon laying around here somewhere, given to me by my Biochem professor in college who was also the Bishop of the local LDS church. They aren't just good people, they are great people. I spent a lot of time with this guy and his family and the Mormon community in my college town. They invited me into their homes during the holidays as well as family vacations when they knew I didn't have the f funds to travel and be with my own family when school was not in session and I wasn't working. Not once did they try and convert me to their religion, although I did attend church services once or twice out of curiosity. The majority of the people I met out there that were LDS were some of the happiest I've ever seen regardless of their lot in life ... OP, if learning about LDS is of interest to you go find some Mormons to talk to, they will be more than happy to answer any questions you have. Quoted: Quoted: I'm not a mormon, but I've met a good amount. They all seem like nice people to me and I respect them because they are clean, well mannered, seem like good Americans and appear to have great family values. I'm sure if you went to a temple or posted in the religion forum you'd get an actual educated answer from a real member. Here. As far as I'm concerned they can believe whatever they want, it looks like its working for them. This is spot on... I have the Book of Mormon laying around here somewhere, given to me by my Biochem professor in college who was also the Bishop of the local LDS church. They aren't just good people, they are great people. I spent a lot of time with this guy and his family and the Mormon community in my college town. They invited me into their homes during the holidays as well as family vacations when they knew I didn't have the f funds to travel and be with my own family when school was not in session and I wasn't working. Not once did they try and convert me to their religion, although I did attend church services once or twice out of curiosity. The majority of the people I met out there that were LDS were some of the happiest I've ever seen regardless of their lot in life ... OP, if learning about LDS is of interest to you go find some Mormons to talk to, they will be more than happy to answer any questions you have. Or watch Brother Jake:  |
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Quoted: Verses 13&14? What of it? Still doesn't explain why sooner or later you won't learn enough to do your own thing. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can man become a God (like the Doctrine and Covenants says)? was God once a man? So much for Isaiah 14. Verses 13&14? What of it? Still doesn't explain why sooner or later you won't learn enough to do your own thing. By "do your own thing," do you mean "become a god?" |
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Now go over to r/exmormon and read about the rampant spiritual abuse. Or watch Brother Jake:  https://youtu.be/QnW0rkDnJ8c
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I'm not a mormon, but I've met a good amount. They all seem like nice people to me and I respect them because they are clean, well mannered, seem like good Americans and appear to have great family values. I'm sure if you went to a temple or posted in the religion forum you'd get an actual educated answer from a real member. Here. As far as I'm concerned they can believe whatever they want, it looks like its working for them. This is spot on... I have the Book of Mormon laying around here somewhere, given to me by my Biochem professor in college who was also the Bishop of the local LDS church. They aren't just good people, they are great people. I spent a lot of time with this guy and his family and the Mormon community in my college town. They invited me into their homes during the holidays as well as family vacations when they knew I didn't have the f funds to travel and be with my own family when school was not in session and I wasn't working. Not once did they try and convert me to their religion, although I did attend church services once or twice out of curiosity. The majority of the people I met out there that were LDS were some of the happiest I've ever seen regardless of their lot in life ... OP, if learning about LDS is of interest to you go find some Mormons to talk to, they will be more than happy to answer any questions you have. Or watch Brother Jake: https://youtu.be/QnW0rkDnJ8c
So was Moses dealing with the Israelites disobedience "rampant spiritual abuse"? Was Noah spiritually abusing people as he preached before the flood? Some people not accepting the gospel and seeking other paths has been part of the world since it's creation. (Cain) The fact that a few thousand out of nearly 16 million people choose a different path and like to associate with others on a message board, in an attempt to justify their decision, does not make the gospel any less true. Go attend a Mormon service, you will find 100+ happy faithful members for every detractor you find online. The prophets have said all along that the time will come when people will choose sides. It does not bother me at all that some have chosen the path they have. Much of the time I have seen when people leave and become bitter, it is due to their wanting to commit sins, or live in a way contrary to the the teachings of Christ. When the church councils them against living that way, they become bitter and fall away. Those that follow Christ's teachings are some of the happiest people you will ever meet. Many of those I have met who have fallen away are some of the most depressed and bitter people I have seen. It seems they feel they must try to continue to put down the church in an unsuccessful attempt to make themselves feel better about their decision. Here are a few sites where people share their conversion stories and the happiness finding the gospel of Christ brought them. Most were members of other faiths before finding the LDS church. http://www.mormonconverts.com/ http://www.ldsliving.com/topics/conversion-story Here is an inspiring story of a Baptist missionary that learned the truth about the LDS church and became converted. Part 1 of 4
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Quoted: So was Moses dealing with the Israelites disobedience "rampant spiritual abuse"? Was Noah spiritually abusing people as he preached before the flood? Some people not accepting the gospel and seeking other paths has been part of the world since it's creation. (Cain) The fact that a few thousand out of nearly 16 million people choose a different path and like to associate with others on a message board, in an attempt to justify their decision, does not make the gospel any less true. Go attend a Mormon service, you will find 100+ happy faithful members for every detractor you find online. The prophets have said all along that the time will come when people will choose sides. It does not bother me at all that some have chosen the path they have. Much of the time I have seen when people leave and become bitter, it is due to their wanting to commit sins, or live in a way contrary to the the teachings of Christ. When the church councils them against living that way, they become bitter and fall away. Those that follow Christ's teachings are some of the happiest people you will ever meet. Many of those I have met who have fallen away are some of the most depressed and bitter people I have seen. It seems they feel they must try to continue to put down the church in an unsuccessful attempt to make themselves feel better about their decision. Here are a few sites where people share their conversion stories and the happiness finding the gospel of Christ brought them. Most were members of other faiths before finding the LDS church. http://www.mormonconverts.com/ http://www.ldsliving.com/topics/conversion-story Here is an inspiring story of a Baptist missionary that learned the truth about the LDS church and became converted. Part 1 of 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApDDXCebxRUQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not a mormon, but I've met a good amount. They all seem like nice people to me and I respect them because they are clean, well mannered, seem like good Americans and appear to have great family values. I'm sure if you went to a temple or posted in the religion forum you'd get an actual educated answer from a real member. Here. As far as I'm concerned they can believe whatever they want, it looks like its working for them. This is spot on... I have the Book of Mormon laying around here somewhere, given to me by my Biochem professor in college who was also the Bishop of the local LDS church. They aren't just good people, they are great people. I spent a lot of time with this guy and his family and the Mormon community in my college town. They invited me into their homes during the holidays as well as family vacations when they knew I didn't have the f funds to travel and be with my own family when school was not in session and I wasn't working. Not once did they try and convert me to their religion, although I did attend church services once or twice out of curiosity. The majority of the people I met out there that were LDS were some of the happiest I've ever seen regardless of their lot in life ... OP, if learning about LDS is of interest to you go find some Mormons to talk to, they will be more than happy to answer any questions you have. Or watch Brother Jake: https://youtu.be/QnW0rkDnJ8cSo was Moses dealing with the Israelites disobedience "rampant spiritual abuse"? Was Noah spiritually abusing people as he preached before the flood? Some people not accepting the gospel and seeking other paths has been part of the world since it's creation. (Cain) The fact that a few thousand out of nearly 16 million people choose a different path and like to associate with others on a message board, in an attempt to justify their decision, does not make the gospel any less true. Go attend a Mormon service, you will find 100+ happy faithful members for every detractor you find online. The prophets have said all along that the time will come when people will choose sides. It does not bother me at all that some have chosen the path they have. Much of the time I have seen when people leave and become bitter, it is due to their wanting to commit sins, or live in a way contrary to the the teachings of Christ. When the church councils them against living that way, they become bitter and fall away. Those that follow Christ's teachings are some of the happiest people you will ever meet. Many of those I have met who have fallen away are some of the most depressed and bitter people I have seen. It seems they feel they must try to continue to put down the church in an unsuccessful attempt to make themselves feel better about their decision. Here are a few sites where people share their conversion stories and the happiness finding the gospel of Christ brought them. Most were members of other faiths before finding the LDS church. http://www.mormonconverts.com/ http://www.ldsliving.com/topics/conversion-story Here is an inspiring story of a Baptist missionary that learned the truth about the LDS church and became converted. Part 1 of 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApDDXCebxRUAnd there are Muslims, Hindus and other non-Mormons that make the same argument about happiness; thus, it is not a reliable indicator of truth. Try again. BTW the LDS gospel is not the actual gospel:
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Anybody man-up yet, or is this thread still full of mental weaklings who are taking the opportunity to continue the derail from the OP's question?
Looks like the latter. I figured as much. I heard a very successful businessman recently quote one of the great thinkers who said that if you are going to make an argument with someone, you should learn his view better than himself. You should know his perspective, what drives him, what motivates him, and learn facts about his position. If you are going to make any statements about the Book of Mormon, do you think that studying it might be a good idea? It's been translated into 110 languages as of 2015. Maybe learn the basic events, figures, and focus of the book? If you display ignorance of some of the basic facts is on display within your first sentence, what do you think that does for your argument? |
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Quoted: Anybody man-up yet, or is this thread still full of mental weaklings who are taking the opportunity to continue the derail from the OP's question? Looks like the latter. I figured as much. I heard a very successful businessman recently quote one of the great thinkers who said that if you are going to make an argument with someone, you should learn his view better than himself. You should know his perspective, what drives him, what motivates him, and learn facts about his position. If you are going to make any statements about the Book of Mormon, do you think that studying it might be a good idea? It's been translated into 110 languages as of 2015. Maybe learn the basic events, figures, and focus of the book? If you ignorance of some of the basic facts is on display within your first sentence, what do you think that does for your argument? The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. |
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You just proved Brother Jake's video, specifically point #5. And there are Muslims, Hindus and other non-Mormons that make the same argument about happiness; thus, it is not a reliable indicator of truth. Try again. BTW the LDS gospel is not the actual gospel: https://youtu.be/l6ubbV1eLTI
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So was Moses dealing with the Israelites disobedience "rampant spiritual abuse"? Was Noah spiritually abusing people as he preached before the flood? Some people not accepting the gospel and seeking other paths has been part of the world since it's creation. (Cain) The fact that a few thousand out of nearly 16 million people choose a different path and like to associate with others on a message board, in an attempt to justify their decision, does not make the gospel any less true. Go attend a Mormon service, you will find 100+ happy faithful members for every detractor you find online. The prophets have said all along that the time will come when people will choose sides. It does not bother me at all that some have chosen the path they have. Much of the time I have seen when people leave and become bitter, it is due to their wanting to commit sins, or live in a way contrary to the the teachings of Christ. When the church councils them against living that way, they become bitter and fall away. Those that follow Christ's teachings are some of the happiest people you will ever meet. Many of those I have met who have fallen away are some of the most depressed and bitter people I have seen. It seems they feel they must try to continue to put down the church in an unsuccessful attempt to make themselves feel better about their decision. Here are a few sites where people share their conversion stories and the happiness finding the gospel of Christ brought them. Most were members of other faiths before finding the LDS church. http://www.mormonconverts.com/ http://www.ldsliving.com/topics/conversion-story Here is an inspiring story of a Baptist missionary that learned the truth about the LDS church and became converted. Part 1 of 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApDDXCebxRUAnd there are Muslims, Hindus and other non-Mormons that make the same argument about happiness; thus, it is not a reliable indicator of truth. Try again. BTW the LDS gospel is not the actual gospel: https://youtu.be/l6ubbV1eLTI
LOL Brother Jake. Is he your hero or something, and why does his opinion mean anything more than anyone elses opinion? If you want, I can post up a video of someone's opinion making points why Christianity is false, and I bet I can point out instances where YOU prove every point correct. I never said other religions don't have happiness, or that it is an indicator of truth. Look back at my words. I said those that follow the teachings of Christ (not just Mormons) are some of the happiest people. That applies to members of any Christian sect. I said many of those that leave the LDS church and spend their days fighting against it are some of the most depressed and bitter people I have met. I have close friends that have left the church, and they tell me of the mental struggles and depression they suffer with. BTW. Your opinion of the LDS gospel carries about as much weight as your brother Jake. Everybody has their own opinion, and I guess you are entitled to yours. |
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That's some serious spin there. "I will make myself like the Most High" is pompous, arrogant, and blasphemous. Quoted:
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Can man become a God (like the Doctrine and Covenants says)? was God once a man? So much for Isaiah 14. Verses 13&14? What of it? Still doesn't explain why sooner or later you won't learn enough to do your own thing. |
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By "do your own thing," do you mean "become a god?" Quoted:
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Can man become a God (like the Doctrine and Covenants says)? was God once a man? So much for Isaiah 14. Verses 13&14? What of it? Still doesn't explain why sooner or later you won't learn enough to do your own thing. By "do your own thing," do you mean "become a god?" Yup. |
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Again, you prove Brother Jake's point by trying to insult and deride those who do not toe your church's line. The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. Quoted:
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Anybody man-up yet, or is this thread still full of mental weaklings who are taking the opportunity to continue the derail from the OP's question? Looks like the latter. I figured as much. I heard a very successful businessman recently quote one of the great thinkers who said that if you are going to make an argument with someone, you should learn his view better than himself. You should know his perspective, what drives him, what motivates him, and learn facts about his position. If you are going to make any statements about the Book of Mormon, do you think that studying it might be a good idea? It's been translated into 110 languages as of 2015. Maybe learn the basic events, figures, and focus of the book? If you ignorance of some of the basic facts is on display within your first sentence, what do you think that does for your argument? The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. LOL. Your "proof". Simply a regurgitation of many of the arguments that have been made against the LDS church for years. A quick google search shows that the arguments have been around for decades, and a google search also can find the rebuttals and answers to those arguments. Do you even have an original thought in your head? It seems like all you do is post opinions of Brother Jake, or Yankee Arnold, Or.......... Maybe if you actually read the Book of Mormon yourself and studied the actual Mormon doctrine, at least then, your argument against the LDS church might seem at least a little more coherent and logical. But then again, it probably wouldn't, because the vast majority of the things you post attacking the church are not doctrine at all, are twisted truths, or flat out lies. Anyone who has actually spent any time truly looking at the Mormon church, can instantly see the fallacies of your opinion. |
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Quoted: LOL Brother Jake. Is he your hero or something, and why does his opinion mean anything more than anyone elses opinion? If you want, I can post up a video of someone's opinion making points why Christianity is false, and I bet I can point out instances where YOU prove every point correct. I never said other religions don't have happiness, or that it is an indicator of truth. Look back at my words. I said those that follow the teachings of Christ (not just Mormons) are some of the happiest people. That applies to members of any Christian sect. I said many of those that leave the LDS church and spend their days fighting against it are some of the most depressed and bitter people I have met. I have close friends that have left the church, and they tell me of the mental struggles and depression they suffer with. BTW. Your opinion of the LDS gospel carries about as much weight as your brother Jake. Everybody has their own opinion, and I guess you are entitled to yours. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So was Moses dealing with the Israelites disobedience "rampant spiritual abuse"? Was Noah spiritually abusing people as he preached before the flood? Some people not accepting the gospel and seeking other paths has been part of the world since it's creation. (Cain) The fact that a few thousand out of nearly 16 million people choose a different path and like to associate with others on a message board, in an attempt to justify their decision, does not make the gospel any less true. Go attend a Mormon service, you will find 100+ happy faithful members for every detractor you find online. The prophets have said all along that the time will come when people will choose sides. It does not bother me at all that some have chosen the path they have. Much of the time I have seen when people leave and become bitter, it is due to their wanting to commit sins, or live in a way contrary to the the teachings of Christ. When the church councils them against living that way, they become bitter and fall away. Those that follow Christ's teachings are some of the happiest people you will ever meet. Many of those I have met who have fallen away are some of the most depressed and bitter people I have seen. It seems they feel they must try to continue to put down the church in an unsuccessful attempt to make themselves feel better about their decision. Here are a few sites where people share their conversion stories and the happiness finding the gospel of Christ brought them. Most were members of other faiths before finding the LDS church. http://www.mormonconverts.com/ http://www.ldsliving.com/topics/conversion-story Here is an inspiring story of a Baptist missionary that learned the truth about the LDS church and became converted. Part 1 of 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApDDXCebxRUAnd there are Muslims, Hindus and other non-Mormons that make the same argument about happiness; thus, it is not a reliable indicator of truth. Try again. BTW the LDS gospel is not the actual gospel: https://youtu.be/l6ubbV1eLTILOL Brother Jake. Is he your hero or something, and why does his opinion mean anything more than anyone elses opinion? If you want, I can post up a video of someone's opinion making points why Christianity is false, and I bet I can point out instances where YOU prove every point correct. I never said other religions don't have happiness, or that it is an indicator of truth. Look back at my words. I said those that follow the teachings of Christ (not just Mormons) are some of the happiest people. That applies to members of any Christian sect. I said many of those that leave the LDS church and spend their days fighting against it are some of the most depressed and bitter people I have met. I have close friends that have left the church, and they tell me of the mental struggles and depression they suffer with. BTW. Your opinion of the LDS gospel carries about as much weight as your brother Jake. Everybody has their own opinion, and I guess you are entitled to yours. When they question, then they are shunned and derided. That's not the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is that we cannot follow the law and can only gain eternal life vicariously though Jesus Christ, by trusting in Him, not ourselves, or a church and it's rules. |
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Quoted: well, that's special. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: yeah, why not. If we're really enternal beings, then sooner or later you're going to learn enough to become a God. So much for Isaiah 14. Verses 13&14? What of it? Still doesn't explain why sooner or later you won't learn enough to do your own thing. |
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Quoted: LOL. Your "proof". Simply a regurgitation of many of the arguments that have been made against the LDS church for years. A quick google search shows that the arguments have been around for decades, and a google search also can find the rebuttals and answers to those arguments. Do you even have an original thought in your head? It seems like all you do is post opinions of Brother Jake, or Yankee Arnold, Or.......... Maybe if you actually read the Book of Mormon yourself and studied the actual Mormon doctrine, at least then, your argument against the LDS church might seem at least a little more coherent and logical. But then again, it probably wouldn't, because the vast majority of the things you post attacking the church are not doctrine at all, are twisted truths, or flat out lies. Anyone who has actually spent any time truly looking at the Mormon church, can instantly see the fallacies of your opinion. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anybody man-up yet, or is this thread still full of mental weaklings who are taking the opportunity to continue the derail from the OP's question? Looks like the latter. I figured as much. I heard a very successful businessman recently quote one of the great thinkers who said that if you are going to make an argument with someone, you should learn his view better than himself. You should know his perspective, what drives him, what motivates him, and learn facts about his position. If you are going to make any statements about the Book of Mormon, do you think that studying it might be a good idea? It's been translated into 110 languages as of 2015. Maybe learn the basic events, figures, and focus of the book? If you ignorance of some of the basic facts is on display within your first sentence, what do you think that does for your argument? The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. LOL. Your "proof". Simply a regurgitation of many of the arguments that have been made against the LDS church for years. A quick google search shows that the arguments have been around for decades, and a google search also can find the rebuttals and answers to those arguments. Do you even have an original thought in your head? It seems like all you do is post opinions of Brother Jake, or Yankee Arnold, Or.......... Maybe if you actually read the Book of Mormon yourself and studied the actual Mormon doctrine, at least then, your argument against the LDS church might seem at least a little more coherent and logical. But then again, it probably wouldn't, because the vast majority of the things you post attacking the church are not doctrine at all, are twisted truths, or flat out lies. Anyone who has actually spent any time truly looking at the Mormon church, can instantly see the fallacies of your opinion. |
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They're bitter because they endured spiritual abuse by being told that heaven is only for those who do everything their church demands of them, which people in positions of leadership, especially it's founder (Joseph Smith) do not do themselves. When they question, then they are shunned and derided. That's not the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is that we cannot follow the law and can only gain eternal life vicariously though Jesus Christ, by trusting in Him, not ourselves, or a church and it's rules. Quoted:
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LOL Brother Jake. Is he your hero or something, and why does his opinion mean anything more than anyone elses opinion? If you want, I can post up a video of someone's opinion making points why Christianity is false, and I bet I can point out instances where YOU prove every point correct. I never said other religions don't have happiness, or that it is an indicator of truth. Look back at my words. I said those that follow the teachings of Christ (not just Mormons) are some of the happiest people. That applies to members of any Christian sect. I said many of those that leave the LDS church and spend their days fighting against it are some of the most depressed and bitter people I have met. I have close friends that have left the church, and they tell me of the mental struggles and depression they suffer with. BTW. Your opinion of the LDS gospel carries about as much weight as your brother Jake. Everybody has their own opinion, and I guess you are entitled to yours. When they question, then they are shunned and derided. That's not the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is that we cannot follow the law and can only gain eternal life vicariously though Jesus Christ, by trusting in Him, not ourselves, or a church and it's rules. I guess that is your opinion of why they are bitter. From those I have talked to, the reasons are different. |
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Still proving his point..... Quoted:
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Anybody man-up yet, or is this thread still full of mental weaklings who are taking the opportunity to continue the derail from the OP's question? Looks like the latter. I figured as much. I heard a very successful businessman recently quote one of the great thinkers who said that if you are going to make an argument with someone, you should learn his view better than himself. You should know his perspective, what drives him, what motivates him, and learn facts about his position. If you are going to make any statements about the Book of Mormon, do you think that studying it might be a good idea? It's been translated into 110 languages as of 2015. Maybe learn the basic events, figures, and focus of the book? If you ignorance of some of the basic facts is on display within your first sentence, what do you think that does for your argument? The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. LOL. Your "proof". Simply a regurgitation of many of the arguments that have been made against the LDS church for years. A quick google search shows that the arguments have been around for decades, and a google search also can find the rebuttals and answers to those arguments. Do you even have an original thought in your head? It seems like all you do is post opinions of Brother Jake, or Yankee Arnold, Or.......... Maybe if you actually read the Book of Mormon yourself and studied the actual Mormon doctrine, at least then, your argument against the LDS church might seem at least a little more coherent and logical. But then again, it probably wouldn't, because the vast majority of the things you post attacking the church are not doctrine at all, are twisted truths, or flat out lies. Anyone who has actually spent any time truly looking at the Mormon church, can instantly see the fallacies of your opinion. Good, As I said, who cares about brother Jake or his opinion. I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. |
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Again, you prove Brother Jake's point by trying to insult and deride those who do not toe your church's line. The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. Quoted:
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Anybody man-up yet, or is this thread still full of mental weaklings who are taking the opportunity to continue the derail from the OP's question? Looks like the latter. I figured as much. I heard a very successful businessman recently quote one of the great thinkers who said that if you are going to make an argument with someone, you should learn his view better than himself. You should know his perspective, what drives him, what motivates him, and learn facts about his position. If you are going to make any statements about the Book of Mormon, do you think that studying it might be a good idea? It's been translated into 110 languages as of 2015. Maybe learn the basic events, figures, and focus of the book? If you ignorance of some of the basic facts is on display within your first sentence, what do you think that does for your argument? The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. There is plenty of 'proof' that the Bible contradicts itself if you'd like to go down that path. I wouldn't as I believe the Bible (KJV) to be the word of God, just not your interpretation of it, or your interpretation of the supposed contradictions. The real 'proof' is found in the evidence of things not seen or the testimony of the Holy Ghost not interpretation. I have received that witness from the Holy Ghost about the Book of Mormon. What is the word of some biased guy who's never read the Book of Mormon compared to that? The book itself even suggests that course: Moroni 10:4-5 "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." If you are undertaking to 'prove' your interpretation of the Bible to be correct you are on a fools errand as there is no truth in man dictating to God the meaning of the words of His prophets. The Holy Ghost in part was sent to testify of truth. Yet, none of your anti-Mormon retoric thus far has suggested an appeal through humble study and prayer to ask for God for that knowledge. This is not surprising to me as seeking answers from the Holy Ghost does not seem to be part of your knowledge base; probably because you refuse to accept the further words of God that He has given, just like Jewish people don't accept the New Testament. I will continue to try and pay close attention to the Holy Ghost. You may continue to pay attention to 'Bro. Jake' if you think it's best but don't be surprised if I or other Mormons don't take his words as 'gospel'. |
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No. They aren't worn when a certain activity calls for it. ie, if you're going swimming, you don't wear them. Or if you are doing gymnastics in a leotard, they aren't worn, etc, etc. They are a symbol of sacred covenants made with God, similar to the reasons a Catholic priest wears certain clothing, or someone who is Jewish wears something specific, etc. Quoted:
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My wife doesn't seem to mind them. They are made out of several different materials so you can get hot weather types or even cold weather materials. Some of the get-ups Marie Osmond wore don't seem to be able to hide that. Are there "reduced footprint" versions for sports and entertainment? No. They aren't worn when a certain activity calls for it. ie, if you're going swimming, you don't wear them. Or if you are doing gymnastics in a leotard, they aren't worn, etc, etc. They are a symbol of sacred covenants made with God, similar to the reasons a Catholic priest wears certain clothing, or someone who is Jewish wears something specific, etc. Gotcha. |
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There is plenty of 'proof' that the Bible contradicts itself if you'd like to go down that path. I wouldn't as I believe the Bible (KJV) to be the word of God, just not your interpretation of it, or your interpretation of the supposed contradictions. The real 'proof' is found in the evidence of things not seen or the testimony of the Holy Ghost not interpretation. I have received that witness from the Holy Ghost about the Book of Mormon. What is the word of some biased guy who's never read the Book of Mormon compared to that? The book itself even suggests that course: Moroni 10:4-5 "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." If you are undertaking to 'prove' your interpretation of the Bible to be correct you are on a fools errand as there is no truth in man dictating to God the meaning of the words of His prophets. The Holy Ghost in part was sent to testify of truth. Yet, none of your anti-Mormon retoric thus far has suggested an appeal through humble study and prayer to ask for God for that knowledge. This is not surprising to me as seeking answers from the Holy Ghost does not seem to be part of your knowledge base; probably because you refuse to accept the further words of God that He has given, just like Jewish people don't accept the New Testament. I will continue to try and pay close attention to the Holy Ghost. You may continue to pay attention to 'Bro. Jake' if you think it's best but don't be surprised if I or other Mormons don't take his words as 'gospel'. Quoted:
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Anybody man-up yet, or is this thread still full of mental weaklings who are taking the opportunity to continue the derail from the OP's question? Looks like the latter. I figured as much. I heard a very successful businessman recently quote one of the great thinkers who said that if you are going to make an argument with someone, you should learn his view better than himself. You should know his perspective, what drives him, what motivates him, and learn facts about his position. If you are going to make any statements about the Book of Mormon, do you think that studying it might be a good idea? It's been translated into 110 languages as of 2015. Maybe learn the basic events, figures, and focus of the book? If you ignorance of some of the basic facts is on display within your first sentence, what do you think that does for your argument? The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. There is plenty of 'proof' that the Bible contradicts itself if you'd like to go down that path. I wouldn't as I believe the Bible (KJV) to be the word of God, just not your interpretation of it, or your interpretation of the supposed contradictions. The real 'proof' is found in the evidence of things not seen or the testimony of the Holy Ghost not interpretation. I have received that witness from the Holy Ghost about the Book of Mormon. What is the word of some biased guy who's never read the Book of Mormon compared to that? The book itself even suggests that course: Moroni 10:4-5 "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." If you are undertaking to 'prove' your interpretation of the Bible to be correct you are on a fools errand as there is no truth in man dictating to God the meaning of the words of His prophets. The Holy Ghost in part was sent to testify of truth. Yet, none of your anti-Mormon retoric thus far has suggested an appeal through humble study and prayer to ask for God for that knowledge. This is not surprising to me as seeking answers from the Holy Ghost does not seem to be part of your knowledge base; probably because you refuse to accept the further words of God that He has given, just like Jewish people don't accept the New Testament. I will continue to try and pay close attention to the Holy Ghost. You may continue to pay attention to 'Bro. Jake' if you think it's best but don't be surprised if I or other Mormons don't take his words as 'gospel'. Amen. For those looking at the Mormon church. This is the key to finding truth. Turn to God. Ask him. Don't take any mans' word for it. Most anti-Mormons will tell you not to rely on God, but to rely on them or "Brother Jake" to find truth. If someone tells you not to rely on God for answers, in direct contradiction to the Bible, it lets one know pretty quickly what side they are on. The Bible itself in James 1 tells us how we can know the truth of things. "5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. That is what any Mormon missionary will tell someone. Read the Book of Mormon, and ask God. If it is true, he will tell you as the Bible promises. Millions have gotten their answer from God that it is true. |
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Amen. For those looking at the Mormon church. This is the key to finding truth. Turn to God. Ask him. Don't take any mans' word for it. Most anti-Mormons will tell you not to rely on God, but to rely on them or "Brother Jake" to find truth. If someone tells you not to rely on God for answers, in direct contradiction to the Bible, it lets one know pretty quickly what side they are on. The Bible itself in James 1 tells us how we can know the truth of things. "5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. That is what any Mormon missionary will tell someone. Read the Book of Mormon, and ask God. If it is true, he will tell you as the Bible promises. Millions have gotten their answer from God that it is true. You'd think that the anti-Mormon bible-thumpers would be good with all of that. But it appears that many of them place the Bible above prayer. Many of them would respond that those sneaky Mormons lead people astray, so their input is necessary to prevent the weak from being hoodwinked. But you'd think that the "do your own research, pray, and decide for yourself" MO would be welcomed by ALL religious people who are confident and secure in their beliefs. But a lot of these people come off as being very "because I said so" or "because that guy said so". That might work on 5 year olds, but it most certainly doesn't work on sentient beings with their own thoughts. Reminds me of this guy... 
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I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. |
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Quoted: There is plenty of 'proof' that the Bible contradicts itself if you'd like to go down that path. I wouldn't as I believe the Bible (KJV) to be the word of God, just not your interpretation of it, or your interpretation of the supposed contradictions. The real 'proof' is found in the evidence of things not seen or the testimony of the Holy Ghost not interpretation. I have received that witness from the Holy Ghost about the Book of Mormon. What is the word of some biased guy who's never read the Book of Mormon compared to that? The book itself even suggests that course: Moroni 10:4-5 "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." If you are undertaking to 'prove' your interpretation of the Bible to be correct you are on a fools errand as there is no truth in man dictating to God the meaning of the words of His prophets. The Holy Ghost in part was sent to testify of truth. Yet, none of your anti-Mormon retoric thus far has suggested an appeal through humble study and prayer to ask for God for that knowledge. This is not surprising to me as seeking answers from the Holy Ghost does not seem to be part of your knowledge base; probably because you refuse to accept the further words of God that He has given, just like Jewish people don't accept the New Testament. I will continue to try and pay close attention to the Holy Ghost. You may continue to pay attention to 'Bro. Jake' if you think it's best but don't be surprised if I or other Mormons don't take his words as 'gospel'. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anybody man-up yet, or is this thread still full of mental weaklings who are taking the opportunity to continue the derail from the OP's question? Looks like the latter. I figured as much. I heard a very successful businessman recently quote one of the great thinkers who said that if you are going to make an argument with someone, you should learn his view better than himself. You should know his perspective, what drives him, what motivates him, and learn facts about his position. If you are going to make any statements about the Book of Mormon, do you think that studying it might be a good idea? It's been translated into 110 languages as of 2015. Maybe learn the basic events, figures, and focus of the book? If you ignorance of some of the basic facts is on display within your first sentence, what do you think that does for your argument? The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. There is plenty of 'proof' that the Bible contradicts itself if you'd like to go down that path. I wouldn't as I believe the Bible (KJV) to be the word of God, just not your interpretation of it, or your interpretation of the supposed contradictions. The real 'proof' is found in the evidence of things not seen or the testimony of the Holy Ghost not interpretation. I have received that witness from the Holy Ghost about the Book of Mormon. What is the word of some biased guy who's never read the Book of Mormon compared to that? The book itself even suggests that course: Moroni 10:4-5 "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." If you are undertaking to 'prove' your interpretation of the Bible to be correct you are on a fools errand as there is no truth in man dictating to God the meaning of the words of His prophets. The Holy Ghost in part was sent to testify of truth. Yet, none of your anti-Mormon retoric thus far has suggested an appeal through humble study and prayer to ask for God for that knowledge. This is not surprising to me as seeking answers from the Holy Ghost does not seem to be part of your knowledge base; probably because you refuse to accept the further words of God that He has given, just like Jewish people don't accept the New Testament. I will continue to try and pay close attention to the Holy Ghost. You may continue to pay attention to 'Bro. Jake' if you think it's best but don't be surprised if I or other Mormons don't take his words as 'gospel'. So now what? Is my heart not sincere now according to you? Is there something wrong with me now? Also, Jeremiah 17:9 shows it to be a poor test: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" We are all sinful creatures, thus, our feelings on a matter cannot be trusted, because they are based on preconceived notions. That's why God gave us the Bible; yet the BoM and LDS doctrine contradict what it says. |
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Quoted: Yup. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: yeah, why not. If we're really enternal beings, then sooner or later you're going to learn enough to become a God. So much for Isaiah 14. Verses 13&14? What of it? Still doesn't explain why sooner or later you won't learn enough to do your own thing. By "do your own thing," do you mean "become a god?" Yup. I find the idea that we humans are capable of "learning enough" to be an equal to God to be heretical and blasphemous. It suggests that the only difference between Him and us is knowledge, which is totally contradicted by the bible. |
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Quoted: Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Quoted: Quoted: I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Like how a LDS bishop demands this contract to be signed and performed by young men and women:
    Yes they do end-up bitter; and for good, understandable reasons. |
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I find the idea that we humans are capable of "learning enough" to be an equal to God to be heretical and blasphemous. It suggests that the only difference between Him and us is knowledge, which is totally contradicted by the bible. Quoted:
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By "do your own thing," do you mean "become a god?" Yup. I find the idea that we humans are capable of "learning enough" to be an equal to God to be heretical and blasphemous. It suggests that the only difference between Him and us is knowledge, which is totally contradicted by the bible. If we are progeny of our Heavenly Father, then the idea of the capacity to progress and become as He is becomes a perfectly rational one. |
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Quoted: I love members of the LDS church. Great folks-patriotic, family-oriented, hard working, support the military and most are very pro-2A. Despite what one may read, they suffer from the same problems raising children in this fucked up society as everyone else, and they seem to handle it pretty well. Their kids seem to come back into the fold fairly quickly after going through that "rebellious" stage. The fact that they believe in being self-sufficient in a crises earns them extra points for being upright, God-fearing Americans. I enjoy having these good people as my neighbors and fellow members of the community in which I live, and I especially love that they're socially conservative. It drives the leftard moonbats from the "bench" here in Boise out of their fucking minds HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I'm right where I want to be. Whatever theological differences we may have is between them and God, and none of my damned business. Could not have said it better myself. While I don't agree with their faith, I certainly agree with their politics. |
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Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Quoted:
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I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 'Contend for' the faith. Not contend against other faiths. Painless, I believe Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the world. That there is no other name given whereby men are saved. I have experienced His redeeming grace more times than I can count. I also believe that the gospel that was practiced in the early church needed to be restored to the Earth. That we indeed practice the very gospel that was once delivered unto the saints. It's why we're called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have seen you on many occasions here contending for Christ and faith in general with the atheists here in GD. We've argued on the same side several times in those discussions. Why on earth are we wasting time here tearing down the faith of others? Contend for your faith. I will contend for mine. I hope we can find common ground to contend for Christ together with those who do not have faith yet. |
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Bottom line is that, speaking for myself, I don't want people deceived, and becoming one of the spiritually abused I read about on r/exmormon. Like how a LDS bishop demands this contract to be signed and performed by young men and women: http://i.imgur.com/ZgQQipv.png http://i.imgur.com/8u33UnI.png http://i.imgur.com/IVhBPV8.png http://i.imgur.com/EsP6vl9.png Yes they do end-up bitter; and for good, understandable reasons. Quoted:
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I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Like how a LDS bishop demands this contract to be signed and performed by young men and women: http://i.imgur.com/ZgQQipv.png http://i.imgur.com/8u33UnI.png http://i.imgur.com/IVhBPV8.png http://i.imgur.com/EsP6vl9.png Yes they do end-up bitter; and for good, understandable reasons. Are you religious? |
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Quoted: 'Contend for' the faith. Not contend against other faiths. Painless, I believe Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the world. That there is no other name given whereby men are saved. I have experienced His redeeming grace more times than I can count. I also believe that the gospel that was practiced in the early church needed to be restored to the Earth. That we indeed practice the very gospel that was once delivered unto the saints. It's why we're called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have seen you on many occasions here contending for Christ and faith in general with the atheists here in GD. We've argued on the same side several times in those discussions. Why on earth are we wasting time here tearing down the faith of others? Contend for your faith. I will contend for mine. I hope we can find common ground to contend for Christ together with those who do not have faith yet. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 'Contend for' the faith. Not contend against other faiths. Painless, I believe Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the world. That there is no other name given whereby men are saved. I have experienced His redeeming grace more times than I can count. I also believe that the gospel that was practiced in the early church needed to be restored to the Earth. That we indeed practice the very gospel that was once delivered unto the saints. It's why we're called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have seen you on many occasions here contending for Christ and faith in general with the atheists here in GD. We've argued on the same side several times in those discussions. Why on earth are we wasting time here tearing down the faith of others? Contend for your faith. I will contend for mine. I hope we can find common ground to contend for Christ together with those who do not have faith yet. We tell people the truth; that is by nature, contentious to those who want to believe a lie. |
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Quoted: If we are progeny of our Heavenly Father, then the idea of the capacity to progress and become as He is becomes a perfectly rational one. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: By "do your own thing," do you mean "become a god?" Yup. I find the idea that we humans are capable of "learning enough" to be an equal to God to be heretical and blasphemous. It suggests that the only difference between Him and us is knowledge, which is totally contradicted by the bible. If we are progeny of our Heavenly Father, then the idea of the capacity to progress and become as He is becomes a perfectly rational one. How do you square the proposition in your post with, say, Jeremiah 10:6? ETA: Not a gotcha question or even an argument, I'm genuinely curious. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Like how a LDS bishop demands this contract to be signed and performed by young men and women: http://i.imgur.com/ZgQQipv.png http://i.imgur.com/8u33UnI.png http://i.imgur.com/IVhBPV8.png http://i.imgur.com/EsP6vl9.png Yes they do end-up bitter; and for good, understandable reasons. Are you religious? Religion is basically refusing to accept God's priceless gift that he offers to everyone free-of-charge; preferring to then toss Him a nickel and then thinking you earned it. |
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Quoted: Only if one has a concept of God that is radically different from the ordinary Judeo-Christian concept of God. How do you square the proposition in your post with, say, Jeremiah 10:6? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: By "do your own thing," do you mean "become a god?" Yup. I find the idea that we humans are capable of "learning enough" to be an equal to God to be heretical and blasphemous. It suggests that the only difference between Him and us is knowledge, which is totally contradicted by the bible. If we are progeny of our Heavenly Father, then the idea of the capacity to progress and become as He is becomes a perfectly rational one. Only if one has a concept of God that is radically different from the ordinary Judeo-Christian concept of God. How do you square the proposition in your post with, say, Jeremiah 10:6? |
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'Contend for' the faith. Not contend against other faiths. Painless, I believe Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the world. That there is no other name given whereby men are saved. I have experienced His redeeming grace more times than I can count. I also believe that the gospel that was practiced in the early church needed to be restored to the Earth. That we indeed practice the very gospel that was once delivered unto the saints. It's why we're called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have seen you on many occasions here contending for Christ and faith in general with the atheists here in GD. We've argued on the same side several times in those discussions. Why on earth are we wasting time here tearing down the faith of others? Contend for your faith. I will contend for mine. I hope we can find common ground to contend for Christ together with those who do not have faith yet. Quoted:
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I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 'Contend for' the faith. Not contend against other faiths. Painless, I believe Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the world. That there is no other name given whereby men are saved. I have experienced His redeeming grace more times than I can count. I also believe that the gospel that was practiced in the early church needed to be restored to the Earth. That we indeed practice the very gospel that was once delivered unto the saints. It's why we're called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have seen you on many occasions here contending for Christ and faith in general with the atheists here in GD. We've argued on the same side several times in those discussions. Why on earth are we wasting time here tearing down the faith of others? Contend for your faith. I will contend for mine. I hope we can find common ground to contend for Christ together with those who do not have faith yet. Sorry, Tubashot. We can be "internet friends", but we are definitely not "Christian brothers". NO Christian denomination considers Mormons to be Christians. Not a single one. That is because you teach a false gospel, which Jesus commands us to contend against. Believe as you please, but if you or others post false statements such as, "I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings.", I will call you on it every time. And in the mean while, I will be praying that you finally see the Truth of the True Gospel of Jesus and reject the false gospel of Mormonism. I am honestly praying for you and others. |
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I find the idea that we humans are capable of "learning enough" to be an equal to God to be heretical and blasphemous. It suggests that the only difference between Him and us is knowledge, which is totally contradicted by the bible. That's because you are viewing the whole thing through a very narrow field of view. You all love to say OMG THE MORMONS think they can be GODS BBQ but you don't know anything about why we believe that. |
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Quoted: That's because you are viewing the whole thing through a very narrow field of view. You all love to say OMG THE MORMONS think they can be GODS BBQ but you don't know anything about why we believe that. Quoted: Quoted: I find the idea that we humans are capable of "learning enough" to be an equal to God to be heretical and blasphemous. It suggests that the only difference between Him and us is knowledge, which is totally contradicted by the bible. That's because you are viewing the whole thing through a very narrow field of view. You all love to say OMG THE MORMONS think they can be GODS BBQ but you don't know anything about why we believe that. Do not presume to know what I do or do not know (or, for that matter, what I do or do not think) about your faith. I'm more educated about your religion than the average "gentile." I took it upon myself to do so after visiting Utah a couple years ago and falling in love with the place; my wife and I intend to move there someday. We even went to the Hill Cumorah Pageant last year and had a great time and met wonderful people. We'd never convert - we're devout Catholics - but it seems a good idea to be educated about and familiar with the predominant culture of where we want to end up. |
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So what if I do that, and I don't get the result you think I should? Because if my heart, via the Holy Spirit, says the BoM is a lie perpetuated by a 19th century convicted con-artist and adulterer. So now what? Is my heart not sincere now according to you? Is there something wrong with me now? Also, Jeremiah 17:9 shows it to be a poor test: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" We are all sinful creatures, thus, our feelings on a matter cannot be trusted, because they are based on preconceived notions. That's why God gave us the Bible; yet the BoM and LDS doctrine contradict what it says. Quoted:
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Anybody man-up yet, or is this thread still full of mental weaklings who are taking the opportunity to continue the derail from the OP's question? Looks like the latter. I figured as much. I heard a very successful businessman recently quote one of the great thinkers who said that if you are going to make an argument with someone, you should learn his view better than himself. You should know his perspective, what drives him, what motivates him, and learn facts about his position. If you are going to make any statements about the Book of Mormon, do you think that studying it might be a good idea? It's been translated into 110 languages as of 2015. Maybe learn the basic events, figures, and focus of the book? If you ignorance of some of the basic facts is on display within your first sentence, what do you think that does for your argument? The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. There is plenty of 'proof' that the Bible contradicts itself if you'd like to go down that path. I wouldn't as I believe the Bible (KJV) to be the word of God, just not your interpretation of it, or your interpretation of the supposed contradictions. The real 'proof' is found in the evidence of things not seen or the testimony of the Holy Ghost not interpretation. I have received that witness from the Holy Ghost about the Book of Mormon. What is the word of some biased guy who's never read the Book of Mormon compared to that? The book itself even suggests that course: Moroni 10:4-5 "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." If you are undertaking to 'prove' your interpretation of the Bible to be correct you are on a fools errand as there is no truth in man dictating to God the meaning of the words of His prophets. The Holy Ghost in part was sent to testify of truth. Yet, none of your anti-Mormon retoric thus far has suggested an appeal through humble study and prayer to ask for God for that knowledge. This is not surprising to me as seeking answers from the Holy Ghost does not seem to be part of your knowledge base; probably because you refuse to accept the further words of God that He has given, just like Jewish people don't accept the New Testament. I will continue to try and pay close attention to the Holy Ghost. You may continue to pay attention to 'Bro. Jake' if you think it's best but don't be surprised if I or other Mormons don't take his words as 'gospel'. So now what? Is my heart not sincere now according to you? Is there something wrong with me now? Also, Jeremiah 17:9 shows it to be a poor test: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" We are all sinful creatures, thus, our feelings on a matter cannot be trusted, because they are based on preconceived notions. That's why God gave us the Bible; yet the BoM and LDS doctrine contradict what it says. Have you humbly read the Book of Mormon with a heart that is open to belief and then humbly and with faith prayed to receive wisdom from God? Let us not kid ourselves that you have done that. Yet that is the way to gain spiritual knowledge. You would understand this if you accepted that God did not stop speaking after the Bible. I am not talking about one obscure experience. I'm talking about witness after witness after witness from the Holy Ghost. Only you can be the judge of whether you have put yourself in a position to be taught spiritually of the Lord. But as you say, you may not know your own heart. You have not learned to gain spiritual knowledge either because it seems clear by what you've written that you are only looking to your own wisdom and the wisdom of men to interpret scripture. Had you a regimen of seeking to understand the scriptures by the Holy Spirit your responses would be very different, but as nearly as I can tell this is not something you practice in your faith. I hope you can see that the words of men compared to the witness of the Holy Ghost are meaningless to me. If you do ever actually read the Book of Mormon with an open heart, and pray about it humbly believing that the Lord can teach you, and you receive a witness that is not true, then you will be in the extreme minority's of people who do that and still feel it is fraudulent, but I wish you the best as God clearly would have a different path for you than He had for me. |
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Do not presume to know what I do or do not know (or, for that matter, what I do or do not think) about your faith. I'm more educated about your religion than the average "gentile." I took it upon myself to do so after visiting Utah a couple years ago and falling in love with the place; my wife and I intend to move there someday. We even went to the Hill Cumorah Pageant last year and had a great time and met wonderful people. We'd never convert - we're devout Catholics - but it seems a good idea to be educated about and familiar with the predominant culture of where we want to end up. Quoted:
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I find the idea that we humans are capable of "learning enough" to be an equal to God to be heretical and blasphemous. It suggests that the only difference between Him and us is knowledge, which is totally contradicted by the bible. That's because you are viewing the whole thing through a very narrow field of view. You all love to say OMG THE MORMONS think they can be GODS BBQ but you don't know anything about why we believe that. Do not presume to know what I do or do not know (or, for that matter, what I do or do not think) about your faith. I'm more educated about your religion than the average "gentile." I took it upon myself to do so after visiting Utah a couple years ago and falling in love with the place; my wife and I intend to move there someday. We even went to the Hill Cumorah Pageant last year and had a great time and met wonderful people. We'd never convert - we're devout Catholics - but it seems a good idea to be educated about and familiar with the predominant culture of where we want to end up. Now that you say that I do remember you have talked about some of that in the past, I am sorry to have lumped you in with the rest. However, I still don't think you see the big picture on your statement, you might not believe it and that is fine, but when you see the big picture it does not seem so blasphemous as you stated. Nobody believes they will be better than God, or anything like that. We believe we will are capable of becoming like him, in process of time....A LOT OF TIME. Eternal progression of intelligences. |
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You've never read Ezekiel 9, have you? Isaiah? Ezra? Galatians? Jude? 2-3 John? Zechariah? Judges? Exodus? The Gospels? We tell people the truth; that is by nature, contentious to those who want to believe a lie. Quoted:
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I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 'Contend for' the faith. Not contend against other faiths. Painless, I believe Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the world. That there is no other name given whereby men are saved. I have experienced His redeeming grace more times than I can count. I also believe that the gospel that was practiced in the early church needed to be restored to the Earth. That we indeed practice the very gospel that was once delivered unto the saints. It's why we're called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have seen you on many occasions here contending for Christ and faith in general with the atheists here in GD. We've argued on the same side several times in those discussions. Why on earth are we wasting time here tearing down the faith of others? Contend for your faith. I will contend for mine. I hope we can find common ground to contend for Christ together with those who do not have faith yet. We tell people the truth; that is by nature, contentious to those who want to believe a lie. But you don't know the truth. All you know is your interpretation. |
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Quoted: Have you humbly read the Book of Mormon with a heart that is open to belief and then humbly and with faith prayed to receive wisdom from God? Let us not kid ourselves that you have done that. Yet that is the way to gain spiritual knowledge. You would understand this if you accepted that God did not stop speaking after the Bible. I am not talking about one obscure experience. I'm talking about witness after witness after witness from the Holy Ghost. Only you can be the judge of whether you have put yourself in a position to be taught spiritually of the Lord. But as you say, you may not know your own heart. You have not learned to gain spiritual knowledge either because it seems clear by what you've written that you are only looking to your own wisdom and the wisdom of men to interpret scripture. Had you a regimen of seeking to understand the scriptures by the Holy Spirit your responses would be very different, but as nearly as I can tell this is not something you practice in your faith. I hope you can see that the words of men compared to the witness of the Holy Ghost are meaningless to me. If you do ever actually read the Book of Mormon with an open heart, and pray about it humbly believing that the Lord can teach you, and you receive a witness that is not true, then you will be in the extreme minority's of people who do that and still feel it is fraudulent, but I wish you the best as God clearly would have a different path for you than He had for me. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Again, you prove Brother Jake's point by trying to insult and deride those who do not toe your church's line. The basic facts are the issue, both with the BoM, how it contradicts the Bible, how it is strikingly similar to books of Joe Smith's time and location, and the lack of credible evidence for it's claims archaeologically and historically, as well as a lack of a source text. Here's the proof. There is plenty of 'proof' that the Bible contradicts itself if you'd like to go down that path. I wouldn't as I believe the Bible (KJV) to be the word of God, just not your interpretation of it, or your interpretation of the supposed contradictions. The real 'proof' is found in the evidence of things not seen or the testimony of the Holy Ghost not interpretation. I have received that witness from the Holy Ghost about the Book of Mormon. What is the word of some biased guy who's never read the Book of Mormon compared to that? The book itself even suggests that course: Moroni 10:4-5 "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." If you are undertaking to 'prove' your interpretation of the Bible to be correct you are on a fools errand as there is no truth in man dictating to God the meaning of the words of His prophets. The Holy Ghost in part was sent to testify of truth. Yet, none of your anti-Mormon retoric thus far has suggested an appeal through humble study and prayer to ask for God for that knowledge. This is not surprising to me as seeking answers from the Holy Ghost does not seem to be part of your knowledge base; probably because you refuse to accept the further words of God that He has given, just like Jewish people don't accept the New Testament. I will continue to try and pay close attention to the Holy Ghost. You may continue to pay attention to 'Bro. Jake' if you think it's best but don't be surprised if I or other Mormons don't take his words as 'gospel'. So now what? Is my heart not sincere now according to you? Is there something wrong with me now? Also, Jeremiah 17:9 shows it to be a poor test: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" We are all sinful creatures, thus, our feelings on a matter cannot be trusted, because they are based on preconceived notions. That's why God gave us the Bible; yet the BoM and LDS doctrine contradict what it says. Have you humbly read the Book of Mormon with a heart that is open to belief and then humbly and with faith prayed to receive wisdom from God? Let us not kid ourselves that you have done that. Yet that is the way to gain spiritual knowledge. You would understand this if you accepted that God did not stop speaking after the Bible. I am not talking about one obscure experience. I'm talking about witness after witness after witness from the Holy Ghost. Only you can be the judge of whether you have put yourself in a position to be taught spiritually of the Lord. But as you say, you may not know your own heart. You have not learned to gain spiritual knowledge either because it seems clear by what you've written that you are only looking to your own wisdom and the wisdom of men to interpret scripture. Had you a regimen of seeking to understand the scriptures by the Holy Spirit your responses would be very different, but as nearly as I can tell this is not something you practice in your faith. I hope you can see that the words of men compared to the witness of the Holy Ghost are meaningless to me. If you do ever actually read the Book of Mormon with an open heart, and pray about it humbly believing that the Lord can teach you, and you receive a witness that is not true, then you will be in the extreme minority's of people who do that and still feel it is fraudulent, but I wish you the best as God clearly would have a different path for you than He had for me. Now please explain why the LDS teaches doctrine not found in the Bible or the BoM, such as men becoming Gods, or that God was once a man? |
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Sorry, Tubashot. We can be "internet friends", but we are definitely not "Christian brothers". NO Christian denomination considers Mormons to be Christians. Not a single one. That is because you teach a false gospel, which Jesus commands us to contend against. Believe as you please, but if you or others post false statements such as, "I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings.", I will call you on it every time. And in the mean while, I will be praying that you finally see the Truth of the True Gospel of Jesus and reject the false gospel of Mormonism. I am honestly praying for you and others. Quoted:
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I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 'Contend for' the faith. Not contend against other faiths. Painless, I believe Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the world. That there is no other name given whereby men are saved. I have experienced His redeeming grace more times than I can count. I also believe that the gospel that was practiced in the early church needed to be restored to the Earth. That we indeed practice the very gospel that was once delivered unto the saints. It's why we're called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have seen you on many occasions here contending for Christ and faith in general with the atheists here in GD. We've argued on the same side several times in those discussions. Why on earth are we wasting time here tearing down the faith of others? Contend for your faith. I will contend for mine. I hope we can find common ground to contend for Christ together with those who do not have faith yet. Sorry, Tubashot. We can be "internet friends", but we are definitely not "Christian brothers". NO Christian denomination considers Mormons to be Christians. Not a single one. That is because you teach a false gospel, which Jesus commands us to contend against. Believe as you please, but if you or others post false statements such as, "I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings.", I will call you on it every time. And in the mean while, I will be praying that you finally see the Truth of the True Gospel of Jesus and reject the false gospel of Mormonism. I am honestly praying for you and others. Thank you for the prayers. I have no wish to be considered as being a mainstream Christian. So don't worry about that. But as someone who trusts that my belief in Jesus Christ will save me, I will always correct those that try to suggest myself and other Mormons do not believe in Him. Call us what you will. Fight against us if you will but know that you risk fighting against God. I will contend for my faith but not against others. |
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Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Quoted:
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I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. And I'll call you on it using Christ's own words in Mark 9 38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40For he that is not against us is on our part. 41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. Name one thing that Mormons do that contradict Christ's teachings. They do all they can to follow Christ's teachings. They have one of the largest networks in the nation to help the poor and needy. They teach the importance of families, and being self sufficient. They do miracles in Christ's name. |
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Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Quoted:
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I see you are proving yourself not a true Christian by attacking and belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Okay, I'm going to have to call you on that one. Jesus NEVER said that we were not to "belittling those of other faiths in contradiction to Christ's teachings". Quite the contrary, He said that there is only "One way". Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. RE: multiple wives - Matthew 19:3-20 ESV And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” ... Ephesians 5:31 ESV “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” Note - this implies one husband - one wife, not multiple wives. 1 Timothy 3:2 ESV Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, How can one square Joseph Smith and Brigham Young with these scriptures? |