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Quoted: Yeah I’ve always thought binary triggers were a dangerous concept but your the only other person I’ve seen say it. Quoted: Quoted: They are the first viable thing I've seen. Hellstorms and other bump devices are stupid. Binary triggers are just fucking dangerous and a bad idea. I don't think they are "just as good" as factory machine guns, but damn close. They are a little bit genius, instead of the bolt tripping a sear, the bolt simply resets the trigger. It's a slightly different experience. For collectors, I'd always rather have a factory MP5 than a safety sear setup, but for ARs I don't think there is a huge felt difference and it's going to mean a "legal" hire rate of fire capacity for one of the most popular rifles / carbines in the world and to that I say GOOD. Collectible pre86 transferable M16A2 and A2s are never gonna lose their values because there are only so many originals. I'd like to think FRTs will become so commonplace that maybe we can open up the damn NFA registry one day. Yeah I’ve always thought binary triggers were a dangerous concept but your the only other person I’ve seen say it. They are not in anyway. But the usual pearl clutching of Fudds. |
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If all you want to do is expend ammo I guess the FRTs are the way to go. My son has one in his Taurus TX22 and it's a hoot. I've been toying with the idea of an FRT for my SBR'd G17. I think real MGs will still find favor in those interested in the technical aspects of them. I have a modest number of MGs, but don't look at them as an investment. They will go to my son when I pass. I've already given him the info on Form 5 transfers. Just my opinion, FRTs may not fare so well under any future non-2A friendly administration. It may be fuddery, but the LGS has a sign that do not sell or work on guns with FRTs. |
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[b] You don’t get bored, but you eventually scratch that itch so to speak. Then you go back to normal semi shooting. If you want it for some serious use, then I suppose the MG would be more reliable. At the top you just described shooting machineguns too. At least mine. Shit all gets old. The MG might be more reliable. Super depends what is it. If frt parts break the gun does not stop working in semi. So reliability may need to be defined. |
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I had a transferable MP5 years ago. Sold it when they were going a little north of $25k. I don't think FRT's will affect the value of transferables. The FRT equipped firearm is just a semi with a hell of an upgrade. I have a MAC 5 waiting on me at a local store. It's going to get the FRT route as I want that MP5 feel again. And the missus has stated she wants one again. Or as close as possible. My other FRT equipped guns are AR's of different calibers. I do not think the FRT rifles will bring down the price of a real deal transferable. |
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Quoted: They are not in anyway. But the usual pearl clutching of Fudds. Quoted: Funds probably say the same about FRTs. Jesus, having the opinion that a gun firing on release of the trigger isn’t that safe doesn’t mean I want to ban them. Plus I fucking love FRTs, they are the greatest advancement in gun rights in my lifetime IMO. I just find the concept of a taking a shot, and then having no choice but to fire again when releasing the trigger… Not the safest thing in the world. I prefer FRTs for numerous reasons. One of which is being safer in concept than binaries. In fact, they are super safe. 
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Quoted: Outside of maaaybe my IAR...it's useless. utterly no advantage whatsoever imo. Ok that is not true. And I can see cqc shit work out with 3-5 round bursts, that is a standard serving size. But no one does that afaik. Semi only. Almost like if you run out of ammo you just die. It's impressive, it's fun and yeah...we are better off with them. And to be fair I can keep it all on an 8" plate better than I thought...but why am I shooting the bad man 28 times...?, it is not a way to put round right on target. I can't think of what it might be good for even really. Quoted: Quoted: Most likely you are correct: Design, print, and then test and refine until ready for production using ordnance-grade materials. The mechanical engineering behind the designs that are out there are impressive to me. These things can be designed to work with existing hammers, triggers, and disconnectors. I’m not a huge fan of FA when engaging targets; the applicability of FA fire from a rifle or carbine is limited IMHO, but the longer these things are available to We The People the better off we are as a nation. Outside of maaaybe my IAR...it's useless. utterly no advantage whatsoever imo. Ok that is not true. And I can see cqc shit work out with 3-5 round bursts, that is a standard serving size. But no one does that afaik. Semi only. Almost like if you run out of ammo you just die. It's impressive, it's fun and yeah...we are better off with them. And to be fair I can keep it all on an 8" plate better than I thought...but why am I shooting the bad man 28 times...?, it is not a way to put round right on target. I can't think of what it might be good for even really. It’s good for reacting to a near ambush and some CQB applications as you mentioned, but you were spot-on about running out of ammo. the usefulness (or lack thereof) of FA is also different when used by a lone individual, vice the coordinated employment by a fire team, squad, platoon, etc. I just hope that if our society devolves into an armed civil conflict, all the Marxist fucks arm themselves with FA (third hole, FRTs or whatever) to make life easier for the rest of us. |
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Quoted: Jesus, having the opinion that a gun firing on release of the trigger isn't that safe doesn't mean I want to ban them. Plus I fucking love FRTs, they are the greatest advancement in gun rights in my lifetime IMO. I just find the concept of a taking a shot, and then having no choice but to fire again when releasing the trigger Not the safest thing in the world. I prefer FRTs for numerous reasons. One of which is being safer in concept than binaries. In fact, they are super safe. |
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I think they are a brilliant testament to human ingenuity. They are effectively 95% of the way there to being equal to a regular MG. I have multiple registered M16s and others. I outfitted an MP5 with an AS Designs ARC fire and that thing is awesome. Should have gotten a Rare Breed trigger pack instead and might still in due time. I believe from my experience that they are more finicky and therefore somewhat less reliable than the "real thing" but really, for the most part, who really cares about that? I do suspect FRTs will go through the legal ringer sooner or later, but it will take time. Probably will go down like the bump stock fiasco. We are living in a golden age, boys. Enjoy it! |
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Quoted: It’s good for reacting to a near ambush and some CQB applications as you mentioned, but you were spot-on about running out of ammo. the usefulness (or lack thereof) of FA is also different when used by a lone individual, vice the coordinated employment by a fire team, squad, platoon, etc. I just hope that if our society devolves into an armed civil conflict, all the Marxist fucks arm themselves with FA (third hole, FRTs or whatever) to make life easier for the rest of us. All true. Especially the part "Lord, make me fast, and accurate. And please make my enmies stupid enought to convert to 2-position FRTs". I wish if we were to devolve into violence, some of us would have the will and the means to direct our shared anger (gotta bond over something) in a mutually beneficial direction. I know things seem fucked (they are). But man...regardless of what your politics are (I know where I am, I could hazard a guess or two), you are absolutely not my enemy. And I am not yours. When it really gets down to the substrate, we all care about of families and our communities and man...everyone I know loves this fucking country. I don't let some fucking blue-haired shrew get to tell me how to feel about my fellow countrymen...I think everyone is pretty angry. But I refuse to believe that we all really hate each other. I live in Arkansas, in the "liberal part" my best friends are my old music and church friends and conservative but I also have friends who identify as...left-leaning (everyone fucking hates the DNC...everyone) that I would do anything for. Because they are phenomenal humans...we do not need to agree on policy we could not be further removed from to at least try to remember we are on the same team...we have to be. Alright, I'l stop being gay for a while. The IAR can really only shine (or at least is best...I dunno what the fuck the FBI does with this thing for their HRT team) in a support role (dunno if that is the exact correct term)...especially two of the talking to each other. Little bit of a rough time with mags. Unfortunately those c-mags are just too big...but it sure is good for a 50 round opening volley and ~7-9 diemotherfuckerdie bursts. I tried a magpul D60 the other day, is it in pieces...it jammed up bad, had loose rounds bouncing around in the drum...those ATI (?) 60 rounders both splight down the middle of the follower and will not load or feed. 60 rd Surefire has been perfect. I didn't expect to be paying $150 for a magazine... |
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Quoted: Coworker has a semi MG42. He has been constantly searching for an FRT for his. I know he has found 2 seperate versions. Just waiting a bit for them to be finalized. My semi MG-42 (actually Yugo M52) bumpfires like crazy. No FRT needed here! If I relax my grip on the grip stick itll bumpfire and entire belt happily. |
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Quoted: Complaining about trigger slap with a FRT tells me you've never played with one. I'm an MG owner. I think Binaries are neat but lack usefulness. Range toy but cool idea. FRTs are awesome. 80% of the way there for a fraction of the cost though the ones I've played with take a little finesse on the trigger. I see FRTs getting more and more popular and I see states and the feds going after them more because they hate freedom. I've never shot a FRT that has trigger slap. Can feel the trigger wiggle under my finger but that's basically it. I really hope all of these things kill the NFA. Machine guns are ridiculously over priced and should be over the counter. Quoted: Quoted: Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. Complaining about trigger slap with a FRT tells me you've never played with one. I'm an MG owner. I think Binaries are neat but lack usefulness. Range toy but cool idea. FRTs are awesome. 80% of the way there for a fraction of the cost though the ones I've played with take a little finesse on the trigger. I see FRTs getting more and more popular and I see states and the feds going after them more because they hate freedom. I've never shot a FRT that has trigger slap. Can feel the trigger wiggle under my finger but that's basically it. I really hope all of these things kill the NFA. Machine guns are ridiculously over priced and should be over the counter. Binaries were neat, but on longer gas systems with slower rates of fire, it's extremely easy to outrun them. They work well with 22 conversion. On the spectrum from standard semi auto to a machine gun, the Binary gets you around 30% there. A properly set up FRT is north of 95% of the way to a machine gun from the user's perspective. |
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Not an MG owner but I have shot a lot of them and I do have binaries on a few ARs plus one MP-5. As far as binaries go, on the ARs, it takes some practice to develop the rhythm to get the gun to fire quickly. They do get close to FA, but it just doesn’t feel the same…maybe I just notice the trigger slap more? I can get mine to go very quick, but not nearly as quick as a real MG. If I could figure out how to post a video from IMGUR, I could show how fast I can get mine. It’s even more work on the MP-5 to simulate FA due to the different ways they work. However, I don’t see the binaries place as a way to simulate FA, but rather for double-taps. In that regard, that’s where they shine…they are vey smooth and quick for controlled two rounds, plus you don’t waste a bunch of ammo. I also don’t want to deal with trigger slap, no matter how small. On the negative side, binaries require you to release the trigger finger which IMO creates a slightly less secure grip compared to FA where there is a full squeeze. I disagree with those who say binaries but you must fully aware what mode you’re in so you don’t release the trigger thinking you’re going SAFE, but you’re in BINARY and pop off a round. No different than basic gun safety. Mechanically, they are safe though because they simply use two alternating sears. |
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Quoted: Not a MG owner but have shot a bunch. Binary triggers are not in the same league as FRT or FA in my opinion. Just not worth it. FRTs are awesome depending on the brand and setup. I think we will eventually see a "go to" for FRT design or brand, semi full safe in one package. I think the MGs that were sought after just because its a MG will get stagnant with prices, mainly ARs and Macs. Maybe take longer to sell. The truly rare collectibles will not be affected. People like myself that only wanted MGs for the brrrt are most likely happy with an FRT. My next project will be a Colt IAR with FRT. We have multiple options that offer this right now. Some of them have a Geissele SSA-E for the trigger pull quality. And you're right, the machine guns whose sole desirability is "gun go brrrrrrt" will probably suffer a bit in value. But a huge amount of the transferrable registry is actual historic guns which cannot be cloned with FRTs. At this point, FRTs are fully mature technology in AR15s and MP5s, and a few of the near AR15 type platforms, with some tweaking. Beyond that, it's pretty much random experimentation at this point. The 10/22 FRT seems to be going nowhere. AK ones need to be fitted by gunsmiths, and then they MIGHT work, and they have nasty trigger slap. |
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Quoted: The things that would lose all or most value are things like lightning links. But there aren't gonna be any more original 1921, 1928 or M1 Thompsons. There won't be original Colt M16A1s or A2s. People will be able to make new machine guns, but it will be like clone guns vs. originals. The people out there buying vintage original machine guns will continue to do so. And the value definitely comes from rarity this is why even semi autos from WWII command the prices they do. Would it be a clone to be built off the original prints? Its not a copy. If MGs are over the counter why do I care if its an original '28 or a 2026 built '28 if I want it as a shooter? We only buy "vintage" MGs because thats all there is. Everything from WW2 could be made today but it isnt as it is not financially feasible to do so. |
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Quoted: Not an MG owner. I think FRTs will probably be added to the NFA at some point, hopefully they kill Hughes to do it so we can at least get the real thing again. I think it would be wise for everyone to have a few of them. once the dems take over, sooner or later they will outlaw them. some states already do. someone(s) with more knowledge than me can explain how you 'add' FRTs to the NFA registry. they dont have serial numbers. i assume this would be required to make them 'registered'. the logistics of doing so would likely be a nightmare. hows about (i know folks will now scream) you do a compromise. you outlaw FRTs but you open the MG registry permanently, including for MGs manufactured outside of the us. |
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Quoted: I didn't know FRTs cost $25. Is this an exaggeration? Quoted: Quoted: $50k for a Machine Gun or a $25 FRT... I didn't know FRTs cost $25. Is this an exaggeration? It's an exaggeration, but not by much. There are two different options available under 100 bucks, full retail, the Trigger Kicker and the Hoffman Super Safety. The Trigger Kicker lacks a standard semi auto mode, and the Super Safety is a push button, cross bar style safety, with three positions. If you stretch your budget to 200 bucks, there are a pile of other ones available. You usually need to address your buffer, which adds some expense. Call it another 50 bucks, except with that Super Safety which seems immune to caring about the buffer. |
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Quoted: Man...I can't hardly get mine to not run. I have been honestly stunned at the complete and total lack of any issues whatsoever for the arc or azr. Same exp with binary...like shooting a singer sewing machine. I am not sure what seems to prevent this entire website from understanding (hell, Alito said it) that congress could pass legislation banning FRTs and I heard nothing to indicate that would be an issue for the court. The function of the trigger quote will mean exactly dick as soon as it is changed to "pull of the trigger"...bingo bongo done. I do not think they will be confiscated. There are significant entrapment by estoppel issue here, when the chief justice says "these are fine"...you cannot ban them and then immediately treat their possession as a criminal offense. I cannot imagine any resolution than to either open the registry or create another category within the NFA. Possible the couple require them to be married to a particular gun. If there is no amnesty it will be the first time I can recall. Quoted: Quoted: MG owner here I dabbled with a couple binary triggers and bump stocks and they were hokey/dumb in comparison. The safe/semi/FRT ar15 ones are 95% as good as the real thing. Though not quite as reliable. I can swap buffers and stuff on a real MG and all that usually happens is rate of fire and recoil changes. Tweaking the setup or even ammo on a FRT AR can easily cause malfunctions. The non-select fire FRTs (like for pistols and stuff) are cool, but non-select fire and crazy rates of fire make them basically range toys. Like a M-11 stuck on full auto. No way FRT remain legal. The first time Dems control Congress and the WH and reappoint a new ATF director… they’re gone. Maybe sooner if there’s a high profile mass casualty event using one. But even if ruled illegal, a good FRT is a nice piece of kit to keep around for the future. Man...I can't hardly get mine to not run. I have been honestly stunned at the complete and total lack of any issues whatsoever for the arc or azr. Same exp with binary...like shooting a singer sewing machine. I am not sure what seems to prevent this entire website from understanding (hell, Alito said it) that congress could pass legislation banning FRTs and I heard nothing to indicate that would be an issue for the court. The function of the trigger quote will mean exactly dick as soon as it is changed to "pull of the trigger"...bingo bongo done. I do not think they will be confiscated. There are significant entrapment by estoppel issue here, when the chief justice says "these are fine"...you cannot ban them and then immediately treat their possession as a criminal offense. I cannot imagine any resolution than to either open the registry or create another category within the NFA. Possible the couple require them to be married to a particular gun. If there is no amnesty it will be the first time I can recall. Correct. Legal precedent as it exists now would require an amnesty period even IF they were added to the NFA. They might be, I can't predict the future. I hope not. |
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Quoted: They are awesome but I don't think they will remain legal. One mass shooting and they are gone they don't need to go looking for them simply make it illegal to use or posses. Ranges won't allow them at all and people will be afraid to even use them. I own both and will say for an AR FRT is the way to go due to price and how much your actually going to shoot it due to cost of ammo. Fire a few fast mags have your fun and its all good. MG's do have their place for collectors for example my S&W 76 there is no semi with an FRT option and with a conversion kit you can have a full auto select fire open bolt 22lr. There was a mass shooting with a bump stock. Vegas. 50 some people died and 500 were wounded. You know what came out of that attempt to ban them? Garland V Cargill, a Supreme Court decision that states clearly: One bullet per trigger pull is NOT a machine gun. |
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Quoted: The RB single stage does sort of suck ass. And I have heard it does slap. Neither the AZR or Arc-five have any slap. The reset is timed now and offers no resistance to the bcg as it is pulled back. OTOH, the AZR-MBT beat the holy shit out of my finger until I trimmed it up...I could not believe a trigger than moves that little could hurt so damn much. Just curious; which require upper mods? I just have not ran into this yet. I think most of your post is pretty dead-on and I share several of these concerns. But while Cargil will not prevent congress from shit...the ATF may not go after FRTs like they did. The court is going to take a very dim view of that, they already told them they have to give back all the once they nabbed before they were declared not MGs. Quoted: Quoted: I have both open bolt and non open bolt MG's and have shot all sorts of transferable and postie ones. FRT is something we shouldn't need as MG's should be as legal as normal guns. That being said the AR super safeties with the normal selectors are pretty nice when they are designed to not require modifying the upper. I like the idea of the rare breed setup but don't care for having to pull the trigger to close the gun, nor do I like it doing forced reset in semi. In my experience they are not as reliable and I feel the trigger slap in my finger after shooting one at the range. For the price though I fully understand someone getting one and having fun while they are legal. Not as big of a fan of people jamming the ar triggers into everything else. Haven't tried the rare breed mp5 trigger but that or the ASD one seem like a much better option for me. Seen too many complaints on modifying hammers, slip trip issues, etc. I'm also concerned with modifying the host guns. Worried the ATF is going to try and claim its a MG or something in the future. Seeing companies actually do more than just copy hoffman and improve his designs is nice. The RB single stage does sort of suck ass. And I have heard it does slap. Neither the AZR or Arc-five have any slap. The reset is timed now and offers no resistance to the bcg as it is pulled back. OTOH, the AZR-MBT beat the holy shit out of my finger until I trimmed it up...I could not believe a trigger than moves that little could hurt so damn much. Just curious; which require upper mods? I just have not ran into this yet. I think most of your post is pretty dead-on and I share several of these concerns. But while Cargil will not prevent congress from shit...the ATF may not go after FRTs like they did. The court is going to take a very dim view of that, they already told them they have to give back all the once they nabbed before they were declared not MGs. The ARC-Fire has no mechanical slap on semi. The reset function is disengaged. The AZR does reset the trigger on semi, and the "slap" is comparable to the Rare Breed. That is to say, almost negligible. |
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I own both, There's very little difference besides rate of fire on a good set up. For instance my AZR vs M16 is very similar, The Sp5k shoots faster than an mp5. It's closer in speed to the m10. I think it can potentially bring the price down on MG's as people will be less motivated to part ways with their money when they can get 90% of the experience for 10% of the cost. I also think it can go two ways. They can either make legislation to ban FRT's or they can use it to legalize manufacturing of machine guns. |
| I currently have three transferable machine guns that I really enjoy, but don’t shoot often. They’ve more than doubled in value since I got them, Personally, I think the FRTs are an excellent accessory and come close to simulating a high-rate-of-fire weapon, but definitely feel different. On many, you can feel the individual trigger resets and on some you can death grip the trigger and get it to stop. Unlike the Hellfires of yesteryear, you don’t need to feather them (mostly). The proliferation is important, as is the mechanical distinctness from a machine gun. Personally, I am hoping a few powerful, large manufacturers (I’m looking at you, Palmetto) come out with factory installed FRT lowers/rifles/pistols. I don’t care what it does to machine gun value - I actually don’t think it’ll affect much, since transferable are fairly stable investments with little threat of future legislation at the Federal level. Overall, FRTs give a nice simulacrum and are fun as hell, plus they encourage people to shoot and to do some kitchen table gunsmithing, which I approve of. |
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Quoted: Can't have one in this state due to SB243 that passed last year.  That is a law plain old in need of a lawsuit due to how poorly it is written. Jerry Miculek might be an expert witness, or maybe a piece of evidence, depending on how the case is presented! |
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Quoted: Pretty much my answer as well. By definition FRT = Forced Reset Trigger is trigger slap no matter how gentile to you it feels. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Every MG I own there is no FRT version of it. Many don't have a semi version wither. I'm not into trigger slap so FRT do not interest me but I think they are great way to put the squeeze on the NFA and the illegal laws of it. I hope they break the 86 MG ban. I would not trust an FRT for "real" use but its fine for fun. Ah yes, the mark of someone that has no idea what they are talking about. Speaking of not knowing what they're talking about. By definition FRT = Forced Reset Trigger is trigger slap no matter how gentile to you it feels. "trigger slap" is usually used to refer to certain guns that are actually painful to fire because the trigger kicks forward so hard. Like certain shitty AKs. You can call it trigger slap if you want, but it's not the thing people are talking about when they say "trigger slap." And it's gentle. Gentile is a different thing. |
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Quoted: Trigger kickers are our current day RDIAS or LL for ARs, just way better. For $43 there is zero reason not to have several of them, even if you don’t plan on installing them. With 3 position versions on the way it’s going to be real hard to justify a registered lower. Quoted: Quoted: $43 trigger kickers are in stock now. Hoffman is printing money with those. Trigger kickers are our current day RDIAS or LL for ARs, just way better. For $43 there is zero reason not to have several of them, even if you don’t plan on installing them. With 3 position versions on the way it’s going to be real hard to justify a registered lower. I put one on my keychain.  I don't particularly care to have a two position FRT, but I bought a pair of them just to support Hoffman, and to test them out and see how they work. |
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Quoted: ... Ironically, I live in Florida where NFA weapons are fine (if not encouraged) but FRTs are a crime. This means MGs will always have their niche (if FRT bans don’t expand). .... Now that there is a factory FRT rifle (One Horse), it has been postulated that it would be legal in Florida. |
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Quoted: At the top you just described shooting machineguns too. At least mine. Shit all gets old. The MG might be more reliable. Super depends what is it. If frt parts break the gun does not stop working in semi. So reliability may need to be defined. Quoted: [b] You don’t get bored, but you eventually scratch that itch so to speak. Then you go back to normal semi shooting. If you want it for some serious use, then I suppose the MG would be more reliable. At the top you just described shooting machineguns too. At least mine. Shit all gets old. The MG might be more reliable. Super depends what is it. If frt parts break the gun does not stop working in semi. So reliability may need to be defined. Well that depends on the FRT. The lever type FRTs, ARC-Fire, Atrius, Cornfire, Hoffman, if the lever breaks in the rear position, your gun is essentially stuck on safe. Not that an ARC-Fire or Hoffman is going to break, I'm just saying. |
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I really can't tell the difference between a good FRT or a M16/MP5. The difference in price leaving me ammo money is noticeable. Also, if say my lower failed, I'm out the cost of a new stripped lower. Attached File Attached File |
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A legit MG just works. FRTs require often some more work. And are often enough not selectable AR15 forced reset triggers - manage the buffer weight, gas amount, etc. People report needing to switch to an H2/H3 buffer, install an adjustable gas tube, etc. PS90 FRT - there is reportedly a sweet spot for the trigger pull to get the gun to reliably run in forced reset or you need to modify the device by filing away surfaces Kriss - cycling issues reported 10/22 forced reset - not selectable TX22 forced reset - not selectable Glock forced Reset - not selectable |
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I'm not sure the prices on MGs will fall, necessarily, but I see the market stagnating. People will continue to hold onto them for unreasonable amounts of money and just not sell them. Browse NFADealer or OTBFirearms, and the same M16s and HK MP5s have been sitting for a long time. I bought an M16 in 2023 and put it in my trust. I didn't buy it for collector purposes, I had a new LPK, DD upper, Geissele SSF trigger, etc waiting for it. I've also shot it a lot. I didn't buy it because it had Colt rollmarks, I bought it because they made good quality components at the time and it wasn't an SP1. Other transferable registered receivers have had issues that I didnt want to deal with. All told, I spent $45k on my M16...  Then, I turned around and bought 6 AS Designs arc-fires and pre-cut Geissele triggers for like $2k. I can outfit 6 of my ARs for a fraction of the price of my M16. I've thought about buying an HK MP5, but instead I bought an SP5 and a Rare Breed FRT. Now I'd rather take that $65k and buy a sweet stereo system. I don't think I'm the only one that is looking at many MGs and wondering what's the point. |
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Quoted: A legit MG just works. FRTs require often some more work. And are often enough not selectable AR15 forced reset triggers - manage the buffer weight, gas amount, etc. People report needing to switch to an H2/H3 buffer, install an adjustable gas tube, etc. PS90 FRT - there is reportedly a sweet spot for the trigger pull to get the gun to reliably run in forced reset or you need to modify the device by filing away surfaces Kriss - cycling issues reported 10/22 forced reset - not selectable TX22 forced reset - not selectable Glock forced Reset - not selectable Brandon Herrara said it best… Machine guns are in a constant state of being broken. 40+ year old transferables run hard over the years, converted sometimes by questions smiths make them less than reliable. I just spent $500 getting my transferable Valmet fixed, turned out it needed an entire fire control group replaced. My Lewis is at the same shop getting sorted out now. 112 year old gun decided it didn’t want to close the bolt anymore and if you can’t get the bolt closed you can’t disassemble it. The lack of select fire is not a big deal, my Jap Type 99 and the Lewis are both full auto only. |
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Quoted: A legit MG just works. FRTs require often some more work. And are often enough not selectable AR15 forced reset triggers - manage the buffer weight, gas amount, etc. People report needing to switch to an H2/H3 buffer, install an adjustable gas tube, etc. PS90 FRT - there is reportedly a sweet spot for the trigger pull to get the gun to reliably run in forced reset or you need to modify the device by filing away surfaces Kriss - cycling issues reported 10/22 forced reset - not selectable TX22 forced reset - not selectable Glock forced Reset - not selectable Can you cite someone recommending an adjustable gas tube to make an FRT work? I mean, this whole sentence you wrote, "manage the buffer weight, gas amount, etc. People report needing to switch to an H2/H3 buffer, install an adjustable gas tube, etc." You said buffer weight twice, which is known, and you said gas amount twice, sort of, your method of which is news to me. I'm curious what the "etc." is that I forgot to include in my 23 functioning FRT builds. |
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Quoted: A legit MG just works. FRTs require often some more work. And are often enough not selectable AR15 forced reset triggers - manage the buffer weight, gas amount, etc. People report needing to switch to an H2/H3 buffer, install an adjustable gas tube, etc. PS90 FRT - there is reportedly a sweet spot for the trigger pull to get the gun to reliably run in forced reset or you need to modify the device by filing away surfaces Kriss - cycling issues reported 10/22 forced reset - not selectable TX22 forced reset - not selectable Glock forced Reset - not selectable I have a TX22 - what transferable MG exists that replaces what the TX22 does? Yeah it isn't selectable, it cost like $700 all-in. Who fucking cares? I could lose it and replace it the next day and not even blink. And all the nonsense about having to tune an AR15 FRT - same stuff applies to an M16. |
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Quoted: I learned something new today. Quoted: Quoted: There are a LOT of open bolt MG's out there from Uzi's and Grease guns to M240s and Bars, why are they janky? It's a quick, reliable, easy way to prevent cook offs from a chambered round in a hot gun. I learned something new today. To add to that, open bolt is just simpler and easier to design and make. It does have the added bonus of nothing sitting in a hot chamber. Open bolt can run away with weak ammo and can also chamber a round and fire that round if the butt is smacked into a solid surface with the bolt closed. Locked open is safer. There are some really cool designs to help prevent that issue. |
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Quoted: A legit MG just works. Tell that to my local SOT and I'll help him laugh you out of the building. People have entire businesses on making transferrable machine guns work. Like anything else mechanical they can and will fail. Hell, I've had to fix his DPM and make it run. The 9mm M16 is still pretty iffy. My FRT so far (before the liberal banned them here) was more reliable than my transferrable has been. My Lage 45ACP upper won't feed and I have mixed results with my PS 22LR upper. The Super Safety was plug and play across 7.62x25, 223, 762x39, 5.45x39 but ran about like my 22 upper with a 22LR conversion kit. I didn't get to figure out the debounce weights before the law change rolled in. |
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I've owned MGs since 1991. Maybe I'm not like most casual MG owners but I don't enjoy hosing ammo down range for the sake of it. Here is my philosophy of MGs and shooting them. First the MGs I collect are usually rare to almost unique in the USA. I love the engineering behind different designs and this is a major reason for me collecting some of the MGs that I have. Lastly I am into very smooth shooting controllable MGs. How will FRTs effect me? SMGs currently all my SMGs are open bolt. I long ago sold off my MP5 because every one had one at the MG shoots and if I wanted to shoot one I always could from a fellow. Having said that I have recently purchased a MP5SD built on a SP5 and I will seriously think about buying a FRT for it. Assault Rifles: they are completely worthless to me and I do not own any MG "assault rifles". I would have liked to have bought a STG44 but I missed that boat long ago and a good semi clone would make me just as happy. Rifle MGs are only good for blasting your ammo away as far as I am concerned. LMG: this is the center of my collection. I love shooting long range steel with them. I enjoy shooting 2-3 round burst and hearing the slap of the rounds on the steel targets at long range while knowing you kept the entire burst on the steel. All of my LMGs are open bolt so none of them will be replaced by FRTs. Semi auto versions of LMGs don't do anything for me. My Colt open bolt LMG would be close for FRT replacement but its the engineering and smoothness of the gun that makes it one of my favorites. MMGs on mounts are boring to me except in their engineering. When you lock one into a target it becomes another hosing ammo for the sake of making noise. I had a Browning M37 (1919A4 next generation) but sold it off as too damn heavy to deal with all the time and too boring. Most of the semi tripod guns can be made to shoot fast with crank fire type of adapters so it might be a while until FRTs are designed for them. |
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Quoted: A legit MG just works. FRTs require often some more work. And are often enough not selectable AR15 forced reset triggers - manage the buffer weight, gas amount, etc. People report needing to switch to an H2/H3 buffer, install an adjustable gas tube, etc. PS90 FRT - there is reportedly a sweet spot for the trigger pull to get the gun to reliably run in forced reset or you need to modify the device by filing away surfaces Kriss - cycling issues reported 10/22 forced reset - not selectable TX22 forced reset - not selectable Glock forced Reset - not selectable Sorry, but a PSA M4 with an frt costs like 1% of a registered M16. I can sort a couple of things out for 99% savings. Like I said before, I can drop a 3d printed FRT in my 3d printed lower and not deal with any nfa bullshit at all. Is it exactly the same thing? No, but guess what? I’m not going to be using it in a war, same as any registered MG. |
| My only experience to compare FRT and full auto is an M16, and an MP5. I just don't feel the difference between them. I did not shoot them side by side, but in my opinion, they are 99% of the real thing. I think a lot of guys are going to hang onto the idea of being exclusive with their transferrables. Historical items are a different story. I now have zero desire for an M16, but an MP40 would be pretty cool. $30K for an M16 or DIAS is just retarted now. It actually has been for a while. |