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Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:17:41 PM EDT




Quoted:

What is the device laying on the notebook? Reminds me of an emergency locator thingy.




SDU5 signal strobe.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:18:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:18:52 PM EDT
Did you guys spot the prototype Iphone in the lower right of the first pic?
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:22:04 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
What is the device laying on the notebook? Reminds me of an emergency locator thingy.


SDU5 signal strobe.


Sweet. It's been so long since I've seen one I could not for the life of me remember what it was.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:23:04 PM EDT
Quoted:
I'm going on 20 years in the military and have yet heard anyone refer to gear as 1st line, 2nd line, blah blah blah


Yep, only real operators do that,
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:23:34 PM EDT
Ever since I found out my Dad did a little tour in SE Asia I've read quite a few books on the subject
and have always been in awe of the exploits of the SOG, LRRP and Marine Recon troops.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:25:52 PM EDT
Quoted:
Dig those 20 round mag pouches.

It looks like alot of gear but it distributes well.

Det cord and washers? Love it.


The 20 round pouches are a B.A.R. belt from WWII / Korea... They hold about 4 x 5.56 mags per pocket X 6 pockets.

Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:26:56 PM EDT
The WWII BAR belts were okay but most guys used canteen covers; you could get about eight 20-rounders in covers versus four or five in the BAR belt pouches.  So you'd have two canteen covers side-by-side on your left hip (if you're right handed), two canteens for water in the small of your back, and then on your right hip you'd have two covers filled with V40s and other assorted explosive trinkets.  



I don't know what the hell St. Martin used that washer-covered det-cord on but every recon guy I've talked to didn't like that idea because it's not directional - those damn washers are gonna go everywhere when that shit cooks off and you'll only be "safe" if you're behind hard cover.  



Also, St. Martin never used a rucksack; he had a tailor in town modify a claymore mine pouch so that he could fit everything he needed for a full 4-7 day romp across the fence.  His tour was cut short by August '69 when he was hit by three AK rounds - two in the abdomen and one in the ankle.  His One-One, Ed Wolcoff had to tuck his shirt into his pants to keep his guts from spilling out.  Dude survived, though.  One leg is several inches shorter than the other.



The other guy in the photos posted above is One-Zero Bobby Pruett.



Both these guys were Recon One-Zeros and led RT New York at one point.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:28:55 PM EDT
Quoted:
What is the device laying on the notebook? Reminds me of an emergency locator thingy.


Strobe light.  It helps helicopters and such find your location at night.


Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:35:49 PM EDT
Quoted:
What is the device laying on the notebook? Reminds me of an emergency locator thingy.



Thats a strobe light, with one of the colored filters on top. Used for signaling an aircraft and the filter kept the light directional and prevented it from looking like a muzzle flash.

I have one somewhere around here, but I have not had batteries for it for years.


Edit: Oh yeah, other pages and whatnot, sorry for the late reply.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:38:33 PM EDT
great thread and great book.

Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:38:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:40:22 PM EDT
The optic on the carbine looks like either an Armson OEG or an Oxford illuminated reticle.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:42:35 PM EDT
Quoted:
The optic on the carbine looks like either an Armson OEG or an Oxford illuminated reticle.


Singlepoint


Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:46:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:50:34 PM EDT
Interesting stuff. I don't understand the purpose of carry a gas mask. Maybe they brought teargas out with them?

Carrying a shitload of morphine makes sense. You really don't want to find yourself all messed up and in agony on the side of some mountain in Laos and nothing for the pain. Also if you had wounds but still needed to get yourself to a helicopter morphine might help get past the pain enough to move under your own power. I have heard certain people in the military are still given similar doses of morphine just in an auto injector form like an epi pen.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:52:07 PM EDT



Quoted:


http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg123/adam21avenger/SOG1stLine.jpg





1st Line:  Watch, pocket knife, compass, signal mirror, pen flare gun with extra flares, emergency radio, strobe light, pen and paper, signal whistle, matches, signal panel, and water purification tablets.





http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg123/adam21avenger/SOG2ndLine.jpg





2nd Line:  Carbine with 21 magazines, six M67 frags, three mini grenades, poncho, two 1-qt canteens, smoke grenade, gas mask, 1911, and bandages.





http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg123/adam21avenger/SOG3rdLine.jpg





3rd Line:  Explosives, detonators, machete, Claymore mine, smoke grenades, one gallon of water, zip ties, alice pack.  



http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg123/adam21avenger/SOGWarrior.jpg



Photo caption:  Explosive Laden:  RT New York One Zero John St. Martin carried a claymore mine in his chest pouch and a chain-like detonation cord covered with steel washers for quick explosive ambushes.  



Photo insert:  Golf ball-sized V40 mini grenade.





I scanned these photos out of my copy of SOG:  A Photo History Of The Secret Wars, by John L. Plaster.  It's my favorite book about Vietnam, an absolutely great read.  
My father is one of the Huey pilots who took these guys into Laos and Cambodia and pulled them back out.  Lots of great stories.  Trying to convince him to write a book.





 
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:52:46 PM EDT
Talk about some hard MF'ers.

I wonder what those dudes would think if you hopped into a time machine and handed them a suppressed M4A1 with NODs?
They would be unstoppable
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:53:03 PM EDT
Quoted:
Un-possible that you could fight a war without optics and a bunch of magpul accessories.

4073

You must have missed the improvised paracord on his mags. Wonder what those led to?
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 10:57:36 PM EDT
My favorite SOG story was from one of Plaster's book. SOG was trying to explain the Space Program to the natives. To do this, they fired a monkey into the air w/ a mortar round. The monkey had a little parachute and fell to the ground, where he was eaten by the locals.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 11:13:18 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
The optic on the carbine looks like either an Armson OEG or an Oxford illuminated reticle.


Singlepoint

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjchumble/8703884222/" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8135/8703884222_e9205d4751.jpg</a>

So you can look through that thing?  Is there a link for info on it?
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 11:18:17 PM EDT
Quoted:
Interesting stuff. I don't understand the purpose of carry a gas mask. Maybe they brought teargas out with them?

Carrying a shitload of morphine makes sense. You really don't want to find yourself all messed up and in agony on the side of some mountain in Laos and nothing for the pain. Also if you had wounds but still needed to get yourself to a helicopter morphine might help get past the pain enough to move under your own power. I have heard certain people in the military are still given similar doses of morphine just in an auto injector form like an epi pen.


Well, for morphine I cannot comment.  But the ATNAA injectors for nerve agents are a series of 4 injectors.  We were trained with sim ones that just poked out a little 3mm long plastic piece.  From what I was told with the real injectors, the first 3 are the atropine and the last one is basically an overdose of diazepam.  If you were fucked enough for the first 3 injectors to not help, you let yourself dose off with the diazepam.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 11:19:02 PM EDT



Quoted:


My favorite SOG story was from one of Plaster's book. SOG was trying to explain the Space Program to the natives. To do this, they fired a monkey into the air w/ a mortar round. The monkey had a little parachute and fell to the ground, where he was eaten by the locals.


I totally saw this happen in my head.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 11:22:09 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The optic on the carbine looks like either an Armson OEG or an Oxford illuminated reticle.


Singlepoint

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjchumble/8703884222/" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8135/8703884222_e9205d4751.jpg</a>

So you can look through that thing?  Is there a link for info on it?
No you can't see through it like an aimpoint it is an occluded gun sight. To use it you must keep both eyes open doing this super imposes a red dot in your vision similar to how an aimpoint super imposes a red dot into your vision when you correctly use it with both eyes open.  If you where to close your nondominant eye while looking through the single point you would see blackness with a red dot in the middle as opposed to the aimpoint that would allow you to see through the sight to your target.

A lot of folks who buy aimpoints dont know that they are designed to be primarily used with both eyes open not with one eye closed like a traditional scope. I see folks at the range all the time who dont know how to properly use a red dot sight. I learned how to use a M68CCO while in the Army I thought it was cool as hell when I was taught how to properly use it.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 11:34:15 PM EDT
I miss the days of demolition training from some old nam vets. Fun with detcord days.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 11:39:20 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The optic on the carbine looks like either an Armson OEG or an Oxford illuminated reticle.


Singlepoint

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjchumble/8703884222/" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8135/8703884222_e9205d4751.jpg</a>

So you can look through that thing?  Is there a link for info on it?
No you can't see through it like an aimpoint it is an occluded gun sight. To use it you must keep both eyes open doing this super imposes a red dot in your vision similar to how an aimpoint super imposes a red dot into your vision when you correctly use it with both eyes open.  If you where to close your nondominant eye while looking through the single point you would see blackness with a red dot in the middle as opposed to the aimpoint that would allow you to see through the sight to your target.


If you put a cap on the front lens of an aimpoint and aim normally with both eyes open, you'll get the same effect. Neato.
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 11:47:29 PM EDT
Wow, I still have my dads old RT-10 radio like that one from the days he worked with some teams flying out of Pleiku.

G
Link Posted: 5/2/2013 11:52:11 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The optic on the carbine looks like either an Armson OEG or an Oxford illuminated reticle.


Singlepoint

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjchumble/8703884222/" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8135/8703884222_e9205d4751.jpg</a>

So you can look through that thing?  Is there a link for info on it?
No you can't see through it like an aimpoint it is an occluded gun sight. To use it you must keep both eyes open doing this super imposes a red dot in your vision similar to how an aimpoint super imposes a red dot into your vision when you correctly use it with both eyes open.  If you where to close your nondominant eye while looking through the single point you would see blackness with a red dot in the middle as opposed to the aimpoint that would allow you to see through the sight to your target.


If you put a cap on the front lens of an aimpoint and aim normally with both eyes open, you'll get the same effect. Neato.
Although thats true the aimpoint will do the same thing even with the front cap open it is designed to be used with both eyes open. Looking through an aimpoint with both eyes open creates the same sight picture the singlepoint does even with the front cap on the aimpoint open.  The aimpoint was the next evolutionary step up from the single point.

Link Posted: 5/3/2013 12:23:09 AM EDT
Quoted:
You know you're a bad motherfucker when you wear a claymore like a necklace.


Link Posted: 5/3/2013 12:26:54 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
21 mags? 420rds if all filled to 20rds. I wonder why there is no cross load of belted ammo, Batteries for radio ect.


Typical, a basic load would only get them through the first immediate action drill in an ambush.  Been awhile since I read Plaster's book, but I don't immediately recall any belt fed weapons being used on the SOG recon teams.  Maybe cut down RPDs though?


They liked using Choppers.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 12:37:42 AM EDT
Cool thread.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 12:41:36 AM EDT
Quoted:
The optic on the carbine looks like either an Armson OEG or an Oxford illuminated reticle.


Trying to find a pic of what the view looks like through that scope.

They've always intrigued me.

EDIT  Been answered, cool
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 1:25:09 AM EDT
Badass men, they are.  God bless them.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 1:48:29 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In the first line gear, to the left, under the watch and pocket knife, they don't list what those are.  They look like they are morphine syrettes.


I'd wager you'd correct.

http://www.mtaofnj.org/content/WWII%20Combat%20Medic%20-%20Dave%20Steinert/wwii_files/syrette.jpg


Yea, it looks like they are.


I'm not sure what a normal dose is, but it seems like having 4 is quite a bit of morphine.  Then again, maybe it's like pain pills where they say "take 1-2."  Gives them enough for 2 separate dosages to hold out for 8-12 hours if wounded.  Anyway, just speculation.


ETA:  It's kind of funny the difference between IFAK's now and then.  All they had were narcotic pain meds, no dressings.  Now, they don't trust the average guy with heavy pain meds.


If I'm not mistaken one dose was pretty heavy around 16mg.  2-3 was enough to kill someone.


Normal dose of morphine is 5-10mg every 4-6 hours. 16mg is gonna knock your ass out, not that 5-10mg won't. I'd imagine that was pretty much the point, though. For the sake of the guys in the field, I'm glad that thoughts on IFAKs have changed. Much better to staunch or stop the bleeding then to just knock someone out. Kinda makes you wonder how different casualties would have been in Korea and Vietnam with modern IFAKs and training.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 1:55:03 AM EDT
That's a lot of gear and a very little water.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 1:56:15 AM EDT



Quoted:


That's a lot of gear and a very little water.


I imagine that water wasn't particularly hard to come by in the jungle...hence the water purification tablets.



 
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 2:10:05 AM EDT
Retro is cool.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 2:13:38 AM EDT
Quoted:
Retro is cool.


I'd really like to build a clone, scope and all for my next AR.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 2:17:26 AM EDT
WOW



They had zip ties back then.





Really I did not know that.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 2:18:32 AM EDT



Quoted:


WOW
They had zip ties back then.
Really I did not know that.


That's a really interesting observation, sadly enough. I wonder when zip ties were introduced originally?



 
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 2:25:47 AM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
WOW



They had zip ties back then.





Really I did not know that.


That's a really interesting observation, sadly enough. I wonder when zip ties were introduced originally?
 

1958

Link Posted: 5/3/2013 2:26:42 AM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
WOW



They had zip ties back then.





Really I did not know that.

That's a really interesting observation, sadly enough. I wonder when zip ties were introduced originally?
 


Developed in 1958, I'll be damned.  Thought they didn't come out till the 80's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_tie

ETA Beaten!
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 2:33:24 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going on 20 years in the military and have yet heard anyone refer to gear as 1st line, 2nd line, blah blah blah


Yep, only real operators do that,


I think you're being sarcastic, but just in case, I've spent all my time in the infantry, scout platoon and ending up in group where I am now. I'm surrounded by and work with real operators and none of us use that terminology. It's gear, lce, vest, ruck and the gay'est is kit, but no first line, second line, third line. I'm pretty sure it came from airsoft.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 2:35:13 AM EDT
Quoted:
If I'm not mistaken one dose was pretty heavy around 16mg.  2-3 was enough to kill someone.


As a way to avoid capture?  Since it's in the first line...

Just thinking out loud.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 2:56:28 AM EDT
My Step-Son's Paternal Grandfather was in MACV-SOG.  He brought a copy of one the team history books over around Christmas, and it was pretty cool.  Don't see him very much though.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 3:05:42 AM EDT
Quoted:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg123/adam21avenger/SOG1stLine.jpg


1st Line:  Watch, pocket knife, compass, signal mirror, pen flare gun with extra flares, emergency radio, strobe light, pen and paper, signal whistle, matches, signal panel, and water purification tablets.


http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg123/adam21avenger/SOG2ndLine.jpg


2nd Line:  Carbine with 21 magazines, six M67 frags, three mini grenades, poncho, two 1-qt canteens, smoke grenade, gas mask, 1911, and bandages.


http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg123/adam21avenger/SOG3rdLine.jpg


3rd Line:  Explosives, detonators, machete, Claymore mine, smoke grenades, one gallon of water, zip ties, alice pack.  

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg123/adam21avenger/SOGWarrior.jpg

Photo caption:  Explosive Laden:  RT New York One Zero John St. Martin carried a claymore mine in his chest pouch and a chain-like detonation cord covered with steel washers for quick explosive ambushes.  

Photo insert:  Golf ball-sized V40 mini grenade.


I scanned these photos out of my copy of SOG:  A Photo History Of The Secret Wars, by John L. Plaster.  It's my favorite book about Vietnam, an absolutely great read.  



Neat pictures. Looks like the Det. cord with washers was actually an issued munition. From what I have seen, it's called a linear mine.

This guy here has an inert example.


Link Posted: 5/3/2013 3:28:45 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
If I'm not mistaken one dose was pretty heavy around 16mg.  2-3 was enough to kill someone.


As a way to avoid capture?  Since it's in the first line...

Just thinking out loud.


No, the directions say to take one, for severe pain only.  16mg was the "field dose" they came in 8, 10, 15 and 16mg doses.

16mg was for basically a missing limb, severe burns, extreme shit.

The directions say if after 2 hours and the pain returns or persists administer another dose.

Slamming two or three back to back?  I would imagine would be lethal
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 3:30:23 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
The optic on the carbine looks like either an Armson OEG or an Oxford illuminated reticle.


Singlepoint

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjchumble/8703884222/" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8135/8703884222_e9205d4751.jpg</a>


I bought one from a guy in Britain for $15, off of eBay, the shipping cost more ($20) than the single point.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 3:38:13 AM EDT
Quoted:
My best friend's dad ran recon with RT New York.

His stories and photo albums are awesome.


I grew up with a close family friend that was LRRP, he lost both his legs from the knees down due to a landmine, just saw him over Christmas while I was on mid-tour.

He's treasure and writer for the LRRP Association, his name is Lynn Walker, your Dad's friend might know him.

http://lrrpranger.org/sua_sponte/FQ13.pdf
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 3:55:47 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going on 20 years in the military and have yet heard anyone refer to gear as 1st line, 2nd line, blah blah blah


Yep, only real operators do that,


I think you're being sarcastic, but just in case, I've spent all my time in the infantry, scout platoon and ending up in group where I am now. I'm surrounded by and work with real operators and none of us use that terminology. It's gear, lce, vest, ruck and the gay'est is kit, but no first line, second line, third line. I'm pretty sure it came from airsoft.


Yeah, being sarcastic. On a serious note, i heard it came from SEAL's.
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