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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:54:41 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Defaulting on the retirements. Sets precedence that this shit will not happen again. You want a retirement? Save for one yourself like the rest of us do. No one is special. All of us chose our careers because of different reasons. The way in which we get compensated for our service is one of those reasons. For many cops and firefighters, a secure job with good benefits and retirement are apart of that. We will never be rich, but we never asked to be rich. The private sector is a different ballgame, there is a lot more risk but if you work your ass of and are in the right place at the right time you might be a billionaire. You also might lose your shirt if your company goes bankrupt. Right now I work for one of the most thriving and fiscally stable cities in the midwest. I had offers from other departments but turned them down due to their fiscal instability. That said, all cities have an obligation to both their citizens AND the employees who served them honorably. Both of those considerations need to be weighed carefully when looking at their long term consequences of financial decisions. Default on your retirements once? Good luck having quality people want to work for your city. Bottom line we all make choices. Sounds like you chose yours and I chose mine. Good luck. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:56:59 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do not want great city services, I want all cities to live within their means. Pension promises are worth the paper they are written on. IOW, not much. You place too much faith on future politicians lowering taxes at some unspecified date. Does not happen. Chicago Area School District students scored an average of 17 on the ACT, the facility and staff averaged a 19. IOW, you have below average facility and staff teaching students who are even more below average. Chicago is a dead man walking, as are most of our Metropolitan areas. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to do what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. Politicians lie about pensions they cannot hope to pay for and the voters choose to believe the lie. Tell me how this ends well. It doesn't. What I am saying is raising taxes is sometimes necessary and right because you promised to pay for shit. It doesn't mean it will make you and I the taxpayer happy, and some politicians will hopefully lose their job over it, but its the right thing for a responsible government to do. When you redo the retirement system and balance the budget you lower taxes again. I am all for lower taxes, but right now you sound like a democrat, you want great city services but you don't want to pay for it. I do not want great city services, I want all cities to live within their means. Pension promises are worth the paper they are written on. IOW, not much. You place too much faith on future politicians lowering taxes at some unspecified date. Does not happen. Chicago Area School District students scored an average of 17 on the ACT, the facility and staff averaged a 19. IOW, you have below average facility and staff teaching students who are even more below average. Chicago is a dead man walking, as are most of our Metropolitan areas. Want cops and firefighters who get paid like McDonalds employees? Go live down south. Not knocking my brothers to the south, but in the long run you get what you pay for. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:03:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Nevermind
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:06:43 PM EDT
[#4]
What's going to happen to the anticipated revenue when the Ferris Bueller demographic taxpayers decide that those job transfer offers to Texas or Florida make even more financial sense?
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:08:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if the feds decide to default on military retirements because "we can't pay for it anymore", would you feel the same way? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to so what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. Good. This is now a pension thread where firemen and policemen are more deserving human beings than other people who work for bankrupt entities. So if the feds decide to default on military retirements because "we can't pay for it anymore", would you feel the same way? Military retirements (tiny pathetic things that they are) are funded through accrual funding, and have been since 1986. In other words, my retirement is already fully funded, and I'm still on active duty. The same is not true for the ridiculous large metro area pensions. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:13:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Chicagoans also would be set to join the residents of many suburbs in paying a garbage hauling fee. O'Connor put the garbage tax at $10 to $12 a month for single-family homes and two-flats. The veteran alderman said the tax would not cover the entire cost of garbage pickup, but would put a pretty good dent in it. am I reading this right, that people in the city don't pay for their garbage disposal? |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:15:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You guys in the private sector are being screwed and you're boasting about it You are correct, but it argues for higher required employer contributions and mandatory participation, not a return to defined benefit programs. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:16:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good. This is now a pension thread where firemen and policemen are more deserving human beings than other people who work for bankrupt entities. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to so what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. Good. This is now a pension thread where firemen and policemen are more deserving human beings than other people who work for bankrupt entities. Yes we are. 
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:18:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He needs to quit doing this stuff, because it just makes more of them move up here.  And down here. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:19:46 PM EDT
[#10]
This country is headed for a reboot.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:19:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes we are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to so what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. Good. This is now a pension thread where firemen and policemen are more deserving human beings than other people who work for bankrupt entities. Yes we are. Send your check to Chicago, then. Your brothers will need it. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:20:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Taxing themselves to prosperity worked wonders for detroit so why not? Business owners in Detroit, they get fucked, indeed: http://www.npr.org/2015/05/27/410019293/on-the-road-to-recovery-detroit-property-taxes-arent-helping But Chicago isn't Detroit.. Detroit is falsely inflated population of 700,000 residents..compared to 2,800,000+/- Hard to get investment in Detroit if you are not an Illitch or a Gilbert. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:20:59 PM EDT
[#13]
I pay $32 per K her in NH, I wonder what the actual rate will end up being?
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:21:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Wait, people in Chicago have not been paying for their garbage to be picked up?
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:22:40 PM EDT
[#15]
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Your taxes are $13,500 a year? ETA: To clarify, I know someone who pays about $4,500 a year in Cook (not Chicago) for a small one floor home with a tiny yard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's about time. Currently, the multiplier used to calculate property values for tax purposes in Chicago is a third what it is downstate. So taxes on a home outside of Cook county are triple what someone in Cook pays. We downstaters have been bitching about this for years. I really have zero sympathy for them. I hope it goes though. Your taxes are $13,500 a year? ETA: To clarify, I know someone who pays about $4,500 a year in Cook (not Chicago) for a small one floor home with a tiny yard. That is complete bullshit. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:22:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Double Tap.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:23:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you defer payments for years it eventually bites you in the ass No The 401K was never intended to be a primary retirement account when it was created. You guys in the private sector are being screwed and you're boasting about it Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you defer payments for years it eventually bites you in the ass Quoted:
All government pensions need to go to the same 401k system we in the private sector use. No The 401K was never intended to be a primary retirement account when it was created. You guys in the private sector are being screwed and you're boasting about it It always cracks me up. Instead of being angry that their greedy shitty CEOs and CFOs they point the finger at people who chose jobs that had better benefits and retirements like we are the problem. Private pensions used to be commonplace. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:25:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It always cracks me up. Instead of being angry that their greedy shitty CEOs and CFOs they point the finger at people who chose jobs that had better benefits and retirements like we are the problem. Private pensions used to be commonplace. They are to blame, and the politicians that allowed it, as well. But, to now circle back with the J.G. Wentworth cry of "Its my money, I want it now!" from government workers is hilarious. Its not your money, and it never was. Politicians threw you to the wolves, as well, and its ZFG from the rest of us. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:27:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good. This is now a pension thread where firemen and policemen are more deserving human beings than other people who work for bankrupt entities. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to so what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. Good. This is now a pension thread where firemen and policemen are more deserving human beings than other people who work for bankrupt entities. Just wait.. the Chicago public school system is also bankrupt... I have no idea how they're going to pay for that. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:31:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do not want great city services, I want all cities to live within their means. Pension promises are worth the paper they are written on. IOW, not much. You place too much faith on future politicians lowering taxes at some unspecified date. Does not happen. Chicago Area School District students scored an average of 17 on the ACT, the facility and staff averaged a 19. IOW, you have below average facility and staff teaching students who are even more below average. Chicago is a dead man walking, as are most of our Metropolitan areas. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to do what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. Politicians lie about pensions they cannot hope to pay for and the voters choose to believe the lie. Tell me how this ends well. It doesn't. What I am saying is raising taxes is sometimes necessary and right because you promised to pay for shit. It doesn't mean it will make you and I the taxpayer happy, and some politicians will hopefully lose their job over it, but its the right thing for a responsible government to do. When you redo the retirement system and balance the budget you lower taxes again. I am all for lower taxes, but right now you sound like a democrat, you want great city services but you don't want to pay for it. I do not want great city services, I want all cities to live within their means. Pension promises are worth the paper they are written on. IOW, not much. You place too much faith on future politicians lowering taxes at some unspecified date. Does not happen. Chicago Area School District students scored an average of 17 on the ACT, the facility and staff averaged a 19. IOW, you have below average facility and staff teaching students who are even more below average. Chicago is a dead man walking, as are most of our Metropolitan areas. Yeah, but thanks to its wonderful gun laws, it's still safe and peaceful. 
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:33:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are correct, but it argues for higher required employer contributions and mandatory participation, not a return to defined benefit programs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You guys in the private sector are being screwed and you're boasting about it You are correct, but it argues for higher required employer contributions and mandatory participation, not a return to defined benefit programs. I would disagree We need to return to traditional pensions in the private sector |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:38:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would disagree We need to return to traditional pensions in the private sector Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You guys in the private sector are being screwed and you're boasting about it You are correct, but it argues for higher required employer contributions and mandatory participation, not a return to defined benefit programs. I would disagree We need to return to traditional pensions in the private sector So you know a company you're willing to make a 40 year bet on, with no real option to opt out? I'm not feeling it. People can make the argument that Chicago will be around in 40 years, but how about saying in 1970 that companies like NCR, Lehman Brothers, or GM would be bankrupt in 40 years? |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:43:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are to blame, and the politicians that allowed it, as well. But, to now circle back with the J.G. Wentworth cry of "Its my money, I want it now!" from government workers is hilarious. Its not your money, and it never was. Politicians threw you to the wolves, as well, and its ZFG from the rest of us. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It always cracks me up. Instead of being angry that their greedy shitty CEOs and CFOs they point the finger at people who chose jobs that had better benefits and retirements like we are the problem. Private pensions used to be commonplace. They are to blame, and the politicians that allowed it, as well. But, to now circle back with the J.G. Wentworth cry of "Its my money, I want it now!" from government workers is hilarious. Its not your money, and it never was. Politicians threw you to the wolves, as well, and its ZFG from the rest of us. But the fact is it is their money. Retirement is apart of contactual compensation just like your paycheck is, its just not given to you up front. No one is asking for it to be given to them upfront (aka the JG wentwork quote). It would be like hiring someone to do work on your house with financing, paying them during the job then saying "oops, ran out of money, sorry!" When they got done. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:49:59 PM EDT
[#24]
There is no easy solution, especially when most (based on the median and mode debt overloads at state and local levels) municipal and state legislators/administrators are incapable of managing a budgets and liabilities in either short or long runs, and in far too many cases appear to be have no repercussions or in some cases actually unofficially incented (via the annual budget and salary allocation processes) to drive up actuals over budget in building little fiefdoms.
In a lot of these underwater public pension liabilities, even the low-hanging-fruit tactics to mitigate the incoming damage aren't being done. For example, in many jurisdictions they still need to mitigate the unfunded liability by changing the final payout calculations. The "I'm a couple years from retirement, so I'm going to work double shifts with no days off for the next two years to bump my pension" strategy is still effective in many of the places, especially (but not surprisingly) in those with the worst underfunded pension problems. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:50:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Chicago has one the largest salary, benefits, pension costs in the USA for police and fire fighters yet has the leading murder rate and crime index in the country. Horrible return on investment for taxpayers.
Hell, Garry McCarthy: Superintendent of Police makes about $50,000 a year more than the mayor. $260,004 cop salary versus $216,2100 for Rahm Emanuel the Mayor of Chicago. 
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:51:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Say hello to my little Detroit.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:54:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no easy solution, especially when most (based on the median and mode debt overloads at state and local levels) municipal and state legislators/administrators are incapable of managing a budgets and liabilities in either short or long runs, and in far too many cases appear to be have no repercussions or in some cases actually unofficially incented (via the annual budget and salary allocation processes) to drive up actuals over budget in building little fiefdoms. In a lot of these underwater public pension liabilities, even the low-hanging-fruit tactics to mitigate the incoming damage aren't being done. For example, in many jurisdictions they still need to mitigate the unfunded liability by changing the final payout calculations. The "I'm a couple years from retirement, so I'm going to work double shifts with no days off for the next two years to bump my pension" strategy is still effective in many of the places, especially (but not surprisingly) in those with the worst underfunded pension problems. Agreed entirely. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 12:56:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It always cracks me up. Instead of being angry that their greedy shitty CEOs and CFOs they point the finger at people who chose jobs that had better benefits and retirements like we are the problem. Private pensions used to be commonplace. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
When you defer payments for years it eventually bites you in the ass Quoted:
All government pensions need to go to the same 401k system we in the private sector use. No The 401K was never intended to be a primary retirement account when it was created. You guys in the private sector are being screwed and you're boasting about it It always cracks me up. Instead of being angry that their greedy shitty CEOs and CFOs they point the finger at people who chose jobs that had better benefits and retirements like we are the problem. Private pensions used to be commonplace. Golden Goose, etc, etc. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:02:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:So that leaves two options, raise taxes for a period, or default on retirement payments.
I agree neither are great options, but which is the lesser of two evils? The latter. One option fucks EVERYONE, one option reduces a pretty fantastical benefit for a few. I lost my pension in the 'real world' during the financial crisis when everyone in my company had their pension plan 'frozen'....and no one called it "evil" or really gave a shit. We still have a 401(k) and profit sharing, I'm not complaining...I'm just saying that things like this change over time. It's a negative outcome, but it's not the magical apocalypse just because these guys happen to work for the government. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:05:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you know a company you're willing to make a 40 year bet on, with no real option to opt out? I'm not feeling it. People can make the argument that Chicago will be around in 40 years, but how about saying in 1970 that companies like NCR, Lehman Brothers, or GM would be bankrupt in 40 years? So you find some way to make the pensions transferrable without it being the dice roll a 401K is My pension has accrued time from 4 different jobs in it If a state can figure it out, so can private employers. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:10:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:The 401K was never intended to be a primary retirement account when it was created.
You guys in the private sector are being screwed and you're boasting about it The only reason it's not is because of caps put in place by the IRS. Take the artificial/pointless caps on 401/IRA/HSA contributions away and it's and entirely viable system. Hell, if you max out a 401(k) and an IRA every single year, you'll have quite a bit of money by retirement time. Is it guaranteed that you'll have enough to retire a rich man? Maybe not, but 401k + IRA + SS will mean that you won't have to choose between dog food and the electric bill. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:10:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to do what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. You are right, IF the politicians were representing the people at the bargaining table. Sadly the weren't. They were bought and paid for by the unions and did whatever the unions wanted. So no, the citizens should not have to pay. That said Fuck Chicago. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:11:00 PM EDT
[#33]
property tax increase in modern Chicago history to raise enough money to make a major pension payment for police and firefighters next year A pension payment. As in just one. Then what? |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:13:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed with salaries that match private sector jobs, promotion rates, benefits, and perks. My last private sector offer was for 275k for OCONUS work or 137 for DC based...plus bonuses. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All government pensions need to go to the same 401k system we in the private sector use. Agreed with salaries that match private sector jobs, promotion rates, benefits, and perks. My last private sector offer was for 275k for OCONUS work or 137 for DC based...plus bonuses. Maybe you're special, most aren't and get total compensation well above what the private world does. 
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:13:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only reason it's not is because of caps put in place by the IRS. Take the artificial/pointless caps on 401/IRA/HSA contributions away and it's and entirely viable system. Hell, if you max out a 401(k) and an IRA every single year, you'll have quite a bit of money by retirement time. Is it guaranteed that you'll have enough to retire a rich man? Maybe not, but 401k + IRA + SS will mean that you won't have to choose between dog food and the electric bill. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:The 401K was never intended to be a primary retirement account when it was created.
You guys in the private sector are being screwed and you're boasting about it The only reason it's not is because of caps put in place by the IRS. Take the artificial/pointless caps on 401/IRA/HSA contributions away and it's and entirely viable system. Hell, if you max out a 401(k) and an IRA every single year, you'll have quite a bit of money by retirement time. Is it guaranteed that you'll have enough to retire a rich man? Maybe not, but 401k + IRA + SS will mean that you won't have to choose between dog food and the electric bill. Maxing out both an IRA and a 401K every year is beyond the means of most middle class workers these days Do people here think that most people earn 100K plus a year? |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:16:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's about time. Currently, the multiplier used to calculate property values for tax purposes in Chicago is a third what it is downstate. So taxes on a home outside of Cook county are triple what someone in Cook pays. We downstaters have been bitching about this for years. I really have zero sympathy for them. I hope it goes though. Like Crabs in a boiling pot they are. Someone should put rubber bands on your Claws. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:18:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Huh.
Looks like they don't learn from history. Look at Youngstown. Youngstown tried to tax its way out of debt. Didn't work, everyone moved to the burbs. City is broke as a joke and finally starting to do something about it. Cutting taxes for industry. Tearing down blight and dumps. Cutting services and tearing roads up. Still haven't cut city income tax though. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:24:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Notice that he's smiling with satisfaction as he's escorted from the room, after being shouted down by BLM tuna fish?
He was shouted down by Democrats, he liked it. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:25:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to do what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. What the ever-lovin Fuck.  . Did common sense abandon you?
Lets walk through this: what happens when you make it "Suck for the Property owners" ??? Then what happens? ..... Then what? ..... I don't know if we should blame the easy living, or the public schools, or the MSM, but... People have lost the ability to use critical thinking skills. Most seem unable to calculate Cause and Effect, and Cost Benefit ratios outside their own little bubble existance. They have literally lost the ability to think rationally beyond a timeline of six months or so. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:35:28 PM EDT
[#40]
The next Detroit.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:40:48 PM EDT
[#41]
I wonder what % of that tax increase will be diverted for other purposes? The demoncraps who run that shit hole wouldn't lie would they?
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:43:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So that leaves two options, raise taxes for a period, or default on retirement payments. I agree neither are great options, but which is the lesser of two evils? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lo Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to so what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. Good. This is now a pension thread where firemen and policemen are more deserving human beings than other people who work for bankrupt entities. So if the feds decide to default on military retirements because "we can't pay for it anymore", would you feel the same way? It doesn't matter how anyone feels, because: We Can't Pay For It Anymore. So that leaves two options, raise taxes for a period, or default on retirement payments. I agree neither are great options, but which is the lesser of two evils? default on retirement payments. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:48:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed with salaries that match private sector jobs, promotion rates, benefits, and perks. My last private sector offer was for 275k for OCONUS work or 137 for DC based...plus bonuses. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All government pensions need to go to the same 401k system we in the private sector use. Agreed with salaries that match private sector jobs, promotion rates, benefits, and perks. My last private sector offer was for 275k for OCONUS work or 137 for DC based...plus bonuses. so take it. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:50:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would be like hiring someone to do work on your house with financing, paying them during the job then saying "oops, ran out of money, sorry!" When they got done. That happens ALL THE TIME. Contracts can and do get broken, ALL THE TIME. The fact that you've got a contract with a bankrupt entity doesn't magically give you the right to be made whole in front of all other creditors. The cops and firemen are just another creditor to the State of Illinois and the City of Chicago. Frankly, I just don't have much sympathy, because the trajectory of both places has been apparent for a decade or longer. The generous pension opportunities in Illinois are and weren't free. Everyone just thought they were just a tiny tax hike from getting fixed. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 1:53:15 PM EDT
[#45]
This will be a long drawn out death............
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Posted: 9/3/2015 2:08:16 PM EDT
[#46]
NM
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Posted: 9/3/2015 2:26:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What the ever-lovin Fuck. . Did common sense abandon you?
Lets walk through this: what happens when you make it "Suck for the Property owners" ??? Then what happens? ..... Then what? ..... I don't know if we should blame the easy living, or the public schools, or the MSM, but... People have lost the ability to use critical thinking skills. Most seem unable to calculate Cause and Effect, and Cost Benefit ratios outside their own little bubble existance. They have literally lost the ability to think rationally beyond a timeline of six months or so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to do what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. What the ever-lovin Fuck. . Did common sense abandon you?
Lets walk through this: what happens when you make it "Suck for the Property owners" ??? Then what happens? ..... Then what? ..... I don't know if we should blame the easy living, or the public schools, or the MSM, but... People have lost the ability to use critical thinking skills. Most seem unable to calculate Cause and Effect, and Cost Benefit ratios outside their own little bubble existance. They have literally lost the ability to think rationally beyond a timeline of six months or so. Then businesses leave, and the city will be hurting. I have plenty of "common sense" and I don't take kindly to your insult. So they should just say "aw fuck it" and default and declare bankruptcy, meanwhile screwing over thousands of retirees? I'm not saying its roses and sunshine when you hike taxes so you don't default on your debt, but right now its seems like their only option besides cutting a bunch of other shit (which you and I know they won't do). They are between a rock and a hard place due to decades of poor decisions prior to this. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 2:31:36 PM EDT
[#48]
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That happens ALL THE TIME. Contracts can and do get broken, ALL THE TIME. The fact that you've got a contract with a bankrupt entity doesn't magically give you the right to be made whole in front of all other creditors. The cops and firemen are just another creditor to the State of Illinois and the City of Chicago. Frankly, I just don't have much sympathy, because the trajectory of both places has been apparent for a decade or longer. The generous pension opportunities in Illinois are and weren't free. Everyone just thought they were just a tiny tax hike from getting fixed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It would be like hiring someone to do work on your house with financing, paying them during the job then saying "oops, ran out of money, sorry!" When they got done. That happens ALL THE TIME. Contracts can and do get broken, ALL THE TIME. The fact that you've got a contract with a bankrupt entity doesn't magically give you the right to be made whole in front of all other creditors. The cops and firemen are just another creditor to the State of Illinois and the City of Chicago. Frankly, I just don't have much sympathy, because the trajectory of both places has been apparent for a decade or longer. The generous pension opportunities in Illinois are and weren't free. Everyone just thought they were just a tiny tax hike from getting fixed. Does the fact it happens ALL THE TIME!!!11 make it okay? It's amazing how people have become so nonchalant about fucking peoples lives over. Politicians be like, "Meh, don't worry about those Cops and Firefighters, defaulting on pensions happens all the time in the private sector, its only fair if it happens to them too..." And people buy this shit and feel good about their shitty 401k and benefits again, all the while the real crooks are laughing their way to the bank. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 2:41:59 PM EDT
[#49]
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It doesn't. What I am saying is raising taxes is sometimes necessary and right because you promised to pay for shit. It doesn't mean it will make you and I the taxpayer happy, and some politicians will hopefully lose their job over it, but its the right thing for a responsible government to do. When you redo the retirement system and balance the budget you lower taxes again. I am all for lower taxes, but right now you sound like a democrat, you want great city services but you don't want to pay for it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to do what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. Politicians lie about pensions they cannot hope to pay for and the voters choose to believe the lie. Tell me how this ends well. It doesn't. What I am saying is raising taxes is sometimes necessary and right because you promised to pay for shit. It doesn't mean it will make you and I the taxpayer happy, and some politicians will hopefully lose their job over it, but its the right thing for a responsible government to do. When you redo the retirement system and balance the budget you lower taxes again. I am all for lower taxes, but right now you sound like a democrat, you want great city services but you don't want to pay for it. They can raise taxes all they like - they're not going to be able to pay for the promised pensions indefinitely. It's simply not possible. The city and/or state will default and the pensioners will get shafted, one way or another. There is no other outcome to this. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 2:53:02 PM EDT
[#50]
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Send your check to Chicago, then. Your brothers will need it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They promised the cops and firefighters pensions, if it wasn't fiscally responsible to so what they promised, the politicians shouldn't have agreed to it during contract time. It's going to suck for property owners, but at least the politicians aren't bailing on the thousands of cops and firefighters who gave 25 plus years of their lives serving the residents. Good. This is now a pension thread where firemen and policemen are more deserving human beings than other people who work for bankrupt entities. Yes we are. Send your check to Chicago, then. Your brothers will need it. Those jackasses are neither my brothers or peers . |
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