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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:00:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Prayers to that man's family.
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:00:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Stopping a poacher is not something worth risking your life over IMO. Like many things that get cops killed, stopping a poacher probably doesn't look life-threatening when you start to do it. I doubt seriously that you or I would be a lethal threat to a game warden who approached one of us violating a game law, even if we knew what we were doing. He might hear some cussing and whining, but that'd be about as bad as it'd get. That said, for game wardens like anybody else who deals with humans in uncontrolled circumstances, complacency kills. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:04:11 AM EDT
[#3]
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Stopping a poacher is not something worth risking your life over IMO. Like many things that get cops killed, stopping a poacher probably doesn't look life-threatening when you start to do it. I doubt seriously that you or I would be a lethal threat to a game warden who approached one of us violating a game law, even if we knew what we were doing. He might hear some cussing and whining, but that'd be about as bad as it'd get. That said, for game wardens like anybody else who deals with humans in uncontrolled circumstances, complacency kills. The guy who was Poaching may have been on Meth, he could have had an outstanding Warrant for something else. He may have been on probation. He may have feared losing his right to hunt. There are people who would kill you to preserve that. We had a Uniform Delivery guy get shot and killed taking a piss up a hollow where he made a wrong turn. He was just a civilian wearing a uniform for his company. The man who shot him said he wanted to kill somebody in Uniform. Some people do not think like normal people. They do not need a reasonable, just cause to murder. Do not think otherwise. Never assume you are alone. Keep your head on a swivel at all times. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:08:12 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
The guy who was Poaching may have been on Meth, he could have had an outstanding Warrant for something else. He may have been on probation. He may have feared losing his right to hunt. There are people who would kill you to preserve that. Do not think otherwise. It's even possible that he wasn't poaching but out doing something else illegal. Game wardens get involved in all kinds of stuff that don't pertain to game laws. Hell, my buddy called me the other day to tell us that the game wardens were giving a sobriety test to a guy we know behind the bar he works at. They ended up taking him to jail for DWI and this all happened in the middle of the city miles away from a place anyone would be hunting. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:14:07 AM EDT
[#5]
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The guy who was Poaching may have been on Meth, he could have had an outstanding Warrant for something else. He may have been on probation. He may have feared losing his right to hunt. There are people who would kill you to preserve that. Do not think otherwise. It's even possible that he wasn't poaching but out doing something else illegal. Game wardens get involved in all kinds of stuff that don't pertain to game laws. Hell, my buddy called me the other day to tell us that the game wardens were giving a sobriety test to a guy we know behind the bar he works at. They ended up taking him to jail for DWI and this all happened in the middle of the city miles away from a place anyone would be hunting. They could have come across a pot-patch or a meth-making operation or anything. Hell, I came across a pot-patch two months ago AT THE COUNTY AIRPORT INSIDE THE WIRE! The State Police were flying helicopters out of there just days before. Hidden right under their nose. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:29:49 AM EDT
[#6]
He could have stubbled onto a murder scene. A swamp is a great place to dump someone, those shots called in might have been something "other" than hunting.
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:40:18 AM EDT
[#7]
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I would not be willing to do the job of a game warden. I would have a problem with the state authorizing me to search peoples buildings and property without a warrant, and I would not do that. I do not and would not go on other peoples posted private property even if authorised by the state. If a citizen were to commit the crime of trespassing on another persons property, there should be no difference if a state employee were to do the same thing without a warrant authorizing such action, and that warrant complying with the constitutional requirements for a valid warrant. All that being said, shooting a game warden is not usually an appropriate course of action. Not usually 
What the hell is that supposed to mean??? 
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:43:43 AM EDT
[#8]
http://www.wbrz.com/news/lsp-believes-no-one-else-involved-in-agent-shooting/
Baton Rouge news station reports it was a shotgun, he was near his unit, and the investigating agency, Louisiana State Police, believes no one else was involved. On a local forum, www.bayoushooter.com in the LEO section, a member that is former LSP states he wasn't murdered. If I had to take a SWAG, I'd guess he was pulling his shotgun out of the unit, muzzle towards him, and a negligent discharge occurred. Of course, this is just a thought on what has been released to the public so far. Either way, RIP brother. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:52:16 AM EDT
[#9]
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What kind of scum murders a man over a poaching ticket? A poacher is almost always as much a degenerate as the worst street thug. I would rather have dinner with a poacher than the "worst street thug"...
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:59:13 AM EDT
[#10]
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I would not be willing to do the job of a game warden. I would have a problem with the state authorizing me to search peoples buildings and property without a warrant, and I would not do that. I do not and would not go on other peoples posted private property even if authorised by the state. If a citizen were to commit the crime of trespassing on another persons property, there should be no difference if a state employee were to do the same thing without a warrant authorizing such action, and that warrant complying with the constitutional requirements for a valid warrant. All that being said, shooting a game warden is not usually an appropriate course of action. Not usually
What the hell is that supposed to mean??? Seems like that's a COC violation. Of course, its ok to rip on LEO's, though. Don't worry about it. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:06:38 AM EDT
[#11]
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I would not be willing to do the job of a game warden. I would have a problem with the state authorizing me to search peoples buildings and property without a warrant, and I would not do that. I do not and would not go on other peoples posted private property even if authorised by the state. If a citizen were to commit the crime of trespassing on another persons property, there should be no difference if a state employee were to do the same thing without a warrant authorizing such action, and that warrant complying with the constitutional requirements for a valid warrant. All that being said, shooting a game warden is not usually an appropriate course of action. Not usually
What the hell is that supposed to mean??? Seems like that's a COC violation. Of course, its ok to rip on LEO's, though. Don't worry about it. Get over yourselves. Lumper was employing an example of massive understatement. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:15:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Stopping a poacher is not something worth risking your life over IMO. Like many things that get cops killed, stopping a poacher probably doesn't look life-threatening when you start to do it. I doubt seriously that you or I would be a lethal threat to a game warden who approached one of us violating a game law, even if we knew what we were doing. He might hear some cussing and whining, but that'd be about as bad as it'd get. That said, for game wardens like anybody else who deals with humans in uncontrolled circumstances, complacency kills. The guy who was Poaching may have been on Meth, he could have had an outstanding Warrant for something else. He may have been on probation. He may have feared losing his right to hunt. There are people who would kill you to preserve that. We had a Uniform Delivery guy get shot and killed taking a piss up a hollow where he made a wrong turn. He was just a civilian wearing a uniform for his company. The man who shot him said he wanted to kill somebody in Uniform. Some people do not think like normal people. They do not need a reasonable, just cause to murder. Do not think otherwise. Never assume you are alone. Keep your head on a swivel at all times. Any poacher is on the shitty and dangerous end of the spectrum of humanity. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:16:50 AM EDT
[#13]
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What kind of scum murders a man over a poaching ticket? A poacher is almost always as much a degenerate as the worst street thug. I would rather have dinner with a poacher than the "worst street thug"... Perhaps you should meet more poachers before making that call. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:17:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would not be willing to do the job of a game warden. I would have a problem with the state authorizing me to search peoples buildings and property without a warrant, and I would not do that. I do not and would not go on other peoples posted private property even if authorised by the state. If a citizen were to commit the crime of trespassing on another persons property, there should be no difference if a state employee were to do the same thing without a warrant authorizing such action, and that warrant complying with the constitutional requirements for a valid warrant. All that being said, shooting a game warden is not usually an appropriate course of action. Not usually What the hell is that supposed to mean??? Seems like that's a COC violation. Of course, its ok to rip on LEO's, though. Don't worry about it. Uh, i'm as sensitive to anti-LEO sentiment as anyone here but I can read the sarcasm in lumper's statement. I agree with everything in the first paragraph of his statement, and don't have a problem with 4th Amendment challenges to LE SOPs. I have worked with Game Wardens frequently, and have found that most of them are pretty respectful of 4th amendment issues. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:18:10 AM EDT
[#15]
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I would not be willing to do the job of a game warden. I would have a problem with the state authorizing me to search peoples buildings and property without a warrant, and I would not do that. I do not and would not go on other peoples posted private property even if authorised by the state. If a citizen were to commit the crime of trespassing on another persons property, there should be no difference if a state employee were to do the same thing without a warrant authorizing such action, and that warrant complying with the constitutional requirements for a valid warrant. All that being said, shooting a game warden is not usually an appropriate course of action. Not usually
What the hell is that supposed to mean??? Seems like that's a COC violation. Of course, its ok to rip on LEO's, though. Don't worry about it. I don't think that patriotic sons of a republic founded in violent rebellion can categorically denounce violence against government agents. Presumptively, yes; categorically, no. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 11:19:16 AM EDT
[#16]
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What kind of scum murders a man over a poaching ticket? A poacher is almost always as much a degenerate as the worst street thug. I would rather have dinner with a poacher than the "worst street thug"... Perhaps you should meet more poachers before making that call. Yup. For all my distrust of law enforcement in general, I have an extremely high regard for COs. They do a job I wouldn't want to do, and I appreciate them for it. Where I'm from (and even moreso where I live now) you can drink a beer and you're the scum of the earth, but you can poach deer on every acre of private land in the county and be a well-respected member of the community. I don't understand it. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 12:30:03 PM EDT
[#17]
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Any poacher is on the shitty and dangerous end of the spectrum of humanity. I personally know people who poach or in the past poached deer to feed their family. One guy in particular worked his way from basically nothing and now makes over $100,000 per year which isn't insane money but it is for a guy that used to have to go out and kill his own food out of necessity. Would you rather have him have not poached and relied on the government for food? Not everyone hunts for sport, some people hunt because they're hungry and don't want government hand outs I have zero problems with that. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 12:34:56 PM EDT
[#18]
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Any poacher is on the shitty and dangerous end of the spectrum of humanity. I personally know people who poach or in the past poached deer to feed their family. One guy in particular worked his way from basically nothing and now makes over $100,000 per year which isn't insane money but it is for a guy that used to have to go out and kill his own food out of necessity. Would you rather have him have not poached and relied on the government for food? Not everyone hunts for sport, some people hunt because they're hungry and don't want government hand outs I have zero problems with that. No, you know a guy who tells a good lie. He may have ate the deer, he may have been poor, but if he lived in America, he didn't have to poach a deer to avoid starvation. Period. SOMEONE somewhere would have ghiven him a meal for mowing the yard, or something. He may have poached because he was too proud to ask for a helping hand from his neighbors, but he didn't poach because he 'had to'. Bull. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 12:37:32 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 10/1/2011 12:38:55 PM EDT
[#20]
A lot of poaching is done by teenagers seeking the thrill of doing something forbidden and getting away with it.
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Posted: 10/1/2011 12:43:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: Any poacher is on the shitty and dangerous end of the spectrum of humanity. I personally know people who poach or in the past poached deer to feed their family. One guy in particular worked his way from basically nothing and now makes over $100,000 per year which isn't insane money but it is for a guy that used to have to go out and kill his own food out of necessity. Would you rather have him have not poached and relied on the government for food? Not everyone hunts for sport, some people hunt because they're hungry and don't want government hand outs I have zero problems with that. My friend, a former SC warden, tells me everybody he's caught poaching was doing it becasue they 'lost their job and their family would starve' if he didn't poach. Of course, the 800+ dollar weatherby rifle, Zeiss optics, new diesel truck, night vision goggles, expensive winter clothing, spotlights, gps units etc. they were wearing and carrying at the time tells a much different story. He always got a good laugh over that. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:02:24 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
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Any poacher is on the shitty and dangerous end of the spectrum of humanity. I personally know people who poach or in the past poached deer to feed their family. One guy in particular worked his way from basically nothing and now makes over $100,000 per year which isn't insane money but it is for a guy that used to have to go out and kill his own food out of necessity. Would you rather have him have not poached and relied on the government for food? Not everyone hunts for sport, some people hunt because they're hungry and don't want government hand outs I have zero problems with that. No, you know a guy who tells a good lie. He may have ate the deer, he may have been poor, but if he lived in America, he didn't have to poach a deer to avoid starvation. Period. SOMEONE somewhere would have ghiven him a meal for mowing the yard, or something. He may have poached because he was too proud to ask for a helping hand from his neighbors, but he didn't poach because he 'had to'. Bull. You've obviously never been to the middle of nowhere Oklahoma where nobody has any money. The isolation and poverty of some people that live right here in the United States would surprise you since it's clear you haven't seen it. How many times is someone going to continue to give you food when they barely have enough before they tell you to go get your own? How many yards are there to mow in the winter? How far can you go to do some work to get some food when you can't even afford gas to put in your piece of shit car that barely runs? What makes you so upset about people providing for themselves when they can instead of relying on someone else to provide for them? I hunt with this guy a lot and to this day he takes every single scrap of meat off every deer he kills. When he gets done with it there's nothing left but some guts, bones, eyeballs and fur. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:05:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Game Wardens/ Conservation Police are no joke.
We called one last year because some beligerent old asshole refused to leave our property and continued hunting, despite being told it was posted by our neighbor. DNR guy came out alone, asked what direction he went, put on his vest and grabbed his Mini-14, and took off up the hillside after him. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:05:58 PM EDT
[#24]
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Not alot of details in that story. Gotta have a huge set to go into the woods alone to ticket or arrest persons who are knowingly engaged in the use of firearms, often with nothing more than a sidearm. +1 I can understand why some of them are uptight. I'd be tempted to take a carbine along. I had a friend who was a caretaker at a public range for awhile, same kinda deal. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:10:35 PM EDT
[#25]
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My friend, a former SC warden, tells me everybody he's caught poaching was doing it becasue they 'lost their job and their family would starve' if he didn't poach. Of course, the 800+ dollar weatherby rifle, Zeiss optics, new diesel truck, night vision goggles, expensive winter clothing, spotlights, gps units etc. they were wearing and carrying at the time tells a much different story. He always got a good laugh over that. Because they don't catch the guys that walk from their house through the woods with nothing but a bow and a knife. Where I hunt up in Oklahoma there's 2 game wardens patrolling 625 square miles of nothing but foothills and wilderness. I've never once seen a game warden there. The chances of them catching someone out there poaching unless someone calls them is practically 0%. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:31:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Game Wardens/ Conservation Police are no joke. We called one last year because some beligerent old asshole refused to leave our property and continued hunting, despite being told it was posted by our neighbor. DNR guy came out alone, asked what direction he went, put on his vest and grabbed his Mini-14, and took off up the hillside after him. One of my local Officers had a personal Stag carbine in addition to his issued, former Cal Dept of Corrections Mini-14. I told him if the shit ever got real, since I hovered back closer to the Expolrer, I was grabbing his Stag and the issue hand-me-down Mini was his when he got there. Besides, you want the best shooter on the best gun  .
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:32:51 PM EDT
[#27]
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You've obviously never been to the middle of nowhere Oklahoma where nobody has any money. The isolation and poverty of some people that live right here in the United States would surprise you since it's clear you haven't seen it. Well, actually, yes, I have seen it, more than once, but I didn't try to make a living there. If he can't eat and stay within the law there, move. Period. This ain't rocket science. I'm sure he's a nice guy, apart from his lawless ways, but if he has to steal to eat, he should move elsewhere. It can be done. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:34:52 PM EDT
[#28]
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My friend, a former SC warden, tells me everybody he's caught poaching was doing it becasue they 'lost their job and their family would starve' if he didn't poach. Of course, the 800+ dollar weatherby rifle, Zeiss optics, new diesel truck, night vision goggles, expensive winter clothing, spotlights, gps units etc. they were wearing and carrying at the time tells a much different story. He always got a good laugh over that. Because they don't catch the guys that walk from their house through the woods with nothing but a bow and a knife. Where I hunt up in Oklahoma there's 2 game wardens patrolling 625 square miles of nothing but foothills and wilderness. I've never once seen a game warden there. The chances of them catching someone out there poaching unless someone calls them is practically 0%. This is true, they catch the lazy and careless Poachers. Like the drunk idiot baiting Bears with old donuts, beer and bacon. I told Officer T he should have charged the asshole with "Contributing to the Delinquency of a Bear." Like Milburn Drysdale was where the durnk bear was driving. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:35:20 PM EDT
[#29]
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What makes you so upset about people providing for themselves when they can instead of relying on someone else to provide for them? If he's poaching, he is stealing form others. He's not merely 'providing for himself', any more than a bank robber is 'providing from himself' by helping himself to a little money from the bank because he was too proud to ask for help or too stubborn to move to where he could find a job. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:36:05 PM EDT
[#30]
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You've obviously never been to the middle of nowhere Oklahoma where nobody has any money. The isolation and poverty of some people that live right here in the United States would surprise you since it's clear you haven't seen it. Well, actually, yes, I have seen it, more than once, but I didn't try to make a living there. If he can't eat and stay within the law there, move. Period. This ain't rocket science. I'm sure he's a nice guy, apart from his lawless ways, but if he has to steal to eat, he should move elsewhere. It can be done. Can't be much poorer than parts of Southern WV. I bet Jesco would fit right in in OK. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:40:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Quoted: My friend, a former SC warden, tells me everybody he's caught poaching was doing it becasue they 'lost their job and their family would starve' if he didn't poach. Of course, the 800+ dollar weatherby rifle, Zeiss optics, new diesel truck, night vision goggles, expensive winter clothing, spotlights, gps units etc. they were wearing and carrying at the time tells a much different story. He always got a good laugh over that. Because they don't catch the guys that walk from their house through the woods with nothing but a bow and a knife. Where I hunt up in Oklahoma there's 2 game wardens patrolling 625 square miles of nothing but foothills and wilderness. I've never once seen a game warden there. The chances of them catching someone out there poaching unless someone calls them is practically 0%. Very true. They had so much area to cover that they tried to concentrate on those that would poach multiple deer per night (i.e the pros). And, of course, they always answered landowner complaints.. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:42:29 PM EDT
[#32]
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I'd love to do that job, but it's every bit as dangerous as a street cop. Prayers for the family and I hope we get justice here. I second your statement. Prayers for the officer and family...
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:45:28 PM EDT
[#33]
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What makes you so upset about people providing for themselves when they can instead of relying on someone else to provide for them? If he's poaching, he is stealing form others. He's not merely 'providing for himself', any more than a bank robber is 'providing from himself' by helping himself to a little money from the bank because he was too proud to ask for help or too stubborn to move to where he could find a job. forget it man, some people here just don't care about the rule of law |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:47:19 PM EDT
[#34]
RIP SGT Stuckey
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:47:51 PM EDT
[#35]
I don't know why anybody poaches aroun where I live for meat. They could eaisly cruise the Interstate and find enough fresh road kill to feed a gianormus family.
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Posted: 10/1/2011 1:54:48 PM EDT
[#36]
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You've obviously never been to the middle of nowhere Oklahoma where nobody has any money. The isolation and poverty of some people that live right here in the United States would surprise you since it's clear you haven't seen it. Well, actually, yes, I have seen it, more than once, but I didn't try to make a living there. If he can't eat and stay within the law there, move. Period. This ain't rocket science. I'm sure he's a nice guy, apart from his lawless ways, but if he has to steal to eat, he should move elsewhere. It can be done. Can't be much poorer than parts of Southern WV. I bet Jesco would fit right in in OK. I spent the last week working in some hollers outside of Omar. I don't know what is in season to hunt with a centerfire rifle, but we caught some nasty looks from a camoed-out guy riding by on a 4-wheeler with one slung over his shoulder. Between the poachers and weed growers, I wouldn't want to be a LEO in the woods anywhere down there. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 2:05:08 PM EDT
[#37]
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You've obviously never been to the middle of nowhere Oklahoma where nobody has any money. The isolation and poverty of some people that live right here in the United States would surprise you since it's clear you haven't seen it. Well, actually, yes, I have seen it, more than once, but I didn't try to make a living there. If he can't eat and stay within the law there, move. Period. This ain't rocket science. I'm sure he's a nice guy, apart from his lawless ways, but if he has to steal to eat, he should move elsewhere. It can be done. Can't be much poorer than parts of Southern WV. I bet Jesco would fit right in in OK. I spent the last week working in some hollers outside of Omar. I don't know what is in season to hunt with a centerfire rifle, but we caught some nasty looks from a camoed-out guy riding by on a 4-wheeler with one slung over his shoulder. Between the poachers and weed growers, I wouldn't want to be a LEO in the woods anywhere down there. I used to live in Wilkinson just up the road from Omar. The only thing I can think of in-season right now that would allow a rifle is Squirrel Season. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 2:14:15 PM EDT
[#38]
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What makes you so upset about people providing for themselves when they can instead of relying on someone else to provide for them? If he's poaching, he is stealing form others. He's not merely 'providing for himself', any more than a bank robber is 'providing from himself' by helping himself to a little money from the bank because he was too proud to ask for help or too stubborn to move to where he could find a job. Hahahaha.....Okay 
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Posted: 10/1/2011 4:22:08 PM EDT
[#39]
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I would not be willing to do the job of a game warden. I would have a problem with the state authorizing me to search peoples buildings and property without a warrant, and I would not do that. I do not and would not go on other peoples posted private property even if authorised by the state. If a citizen were to commit the crime of trespassing on another persons property, there should be no difference if a state employee were to do the same thing without a warrant authorizing such action, and that warrant complying with the constitutional requirements for a valid warrant. All that being said, shooting a game warden is not usually an appropriate course of action. 
Why don't you elaborate for us? If a person is involved in a criminal action, which can reasonably be believed to cause harm or death to another person, the fact that he or she is employed as a government employee at the time they are involved in the criminal activity should not prevent them from being stopped in what ever method the victim chooses. The usually was used, since I was assuming that the majority of time that a government employee is working, they are not currently involved in criminal activity. As you are no doubt aware, there is no indication that the warden was involved in any crime at the time of his death. I apologise for any confusion this has caused you. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 4:27:58 PM EDT
[#40]
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I would not be willing to do the job of a game warden. I would have a problem with the state authorizing me to search peoples buildings and property without a warrant, and I would not do that. I do not and would not go on other peoples posted private property even if authorised by the state. If a citizen were to commit the crime of trespassing on another persons property, there should be no difference if a state employee were to do the same thing without a warrant authorizing such action, and that warrant complying with the constitutional requirements for a valid warrant. All that being said, shooting a game warden is not usually an appropriate course of action. How many more state employees do you want to hire to do these jobs? If I had to get a warrant everytime I went onto private land, you would need a lot more of me because I would be spending too much time at the court house getting warrants. And if I had to go to that much trouble for each incident, I likely would not be so generous with warnings as I would assume I was catching fewer acts and had to be more strict to compensate for my limited presence. I do not go on people land unless I have a reasonable suspicion a criminal act has occured or I can observe it with my own eyes. I suggest you read up on the concepts of the open fields doctrine and curtlage.BTW. I am NOT a Game Warden but I do enforce some of the same law and rules they do plus I am uniformed. I do work closely with my local Conservation Officers from time to time. I understand the law. I simply do not believe that the law should be used this way. I am sorry that you believe that getting a warrant would take too much of your time. I would argue that a person who has not been convicted of a crime should have the right to privacy on their own land, until a law enforcement officer can articulate before a judge a valid reason for that officer to violate the privacy of that citizen. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 4:30:45 PM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I would not be willing to do the job of a game warden. I would have a problem with the state authorizing me to search peoples buildings and property without a warrant, and I would not do that. I do not and would not go on other peoples posted private property even if authorised by the state. If a citizen were to commit the crime of trespassing on another persons property, there should be no difference if a state employee were to do the same thing without a warrant authorizing such action, and that warrant complying with the constitutional requirements for a valid warrant. All that being said, shooting a game warden is not usually an appropriate course of action. Not usually
What the hell is that supposed to mean??? Seems like that's a COC violation. Of course, its ok to rip on LEO's, though. Don't worry about it. You should read the COC again. Perhaps more than once until you understand it. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 4:34:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Subsistence hunting without a tag or out of regulations because you are honestly hungry might be one thing.
Killing a man in cold blood, however, is an entirely different thing. That poacher is an animal and needs to be hunted down as such. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 5:30:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would not be willing to do the job of a game warden. I would have a problem with the state authorizing me to search peoples buildings and property without a warrant, and I would not do that. I do not and would not go on other peoples posted private property even if authorised by the state. If a citizen were to commit the crime of trespassing on another persons property, there should be no difference if a state employee were to do the same thing without a warrant authorizing such action, and that warrant complying with the constitutional requirements for a valid warrant. All that being said, shooting a game warden is not usually an appropriate course of action. How many more state employees do you want to hire to do these jobs? If I had to get a warrant everytime I went onto private land, you would need a lot more of me because I would be spending too much time at the court house getting warrants. And if I had to go to that much trouble for each incident, I likely would not be so generous with warnings as I would assume I was catching fewer acts and had to be more strict to compensate for my limited presence. I do not go on people land unless I have a reasonable suspicion a criminal act has occured or I can observe it with my own eyes. I suggest you read up on the concepts of the open fields doctrine and curtlage.BTW. I am NOT a Game Warden but I do enforce some of the same law and rules they do plus I am uniformed. I do work closely with my local Conservation Officers from time to time. I understand the law. I simply do not believe that the law should be used this way. I am sorry that you believe that getting a warrant would take too much of your time. I would argue that a person who has not been convicted of a crime should have the right to privacy on their own land, until a law enforcement officer can articulate before a judge a valid reason for that officer to violate the privacy of that citizen. So, you are saying if I personally witness a crime or have reasonable suspicion to believe one is being comitted I should have to get a Warrant? Remember, Tresspass laws are a State, not a Federal function(off of Federal lands and properties) and the state can exempt itself from those laws by act of the Legislature, which it has in my case. The 4th Amendment protects you against unreasonable searches and seizures without a Warrant. Note the word unreasonable. Federal case law has establisehd that searches with proabale cause outside of curtlage(again, google the Open Fields Doctrine and Curtlage if you want to understand more) constitutes a reasonable search. I do not take walks at random looking for things I do not already have a strong suspicion are there. This isn't cart-blanche for a fishing expedition. Again, I am sure my Agency can do many things differently if the taxpayer is willing to pay for the manpower resources. I can be solving the problem instead of being in the Magistrates office filling out paperwork to investigate a Misdemeanor or minor Civil offense. Now, as a matter of course, we do try and locate anyone present on the land at the time of the Investigation and obtain verbal permission first. Sometimes this in not feasable as the land may be vacant and the Landowner may not even live in the area. The persons causing the offense may even be Trespassers themselves, not at all uncommon. If we are refused permission, even though we legally still have right of entry, we as a matter of policy seek and obtain a written Warrant. Again, if I go to that much trouble, I likely will not leave without issuing something more susbtantial than a mere warning should a Violation be observed. Now, if a Felony offense is suspected, we will get a Warrant up-front before the Offender can become aware we are on to him and attempt to destroy or alter evidence and we will show-up in force with the Warrant. But that is a rare thing to have to do as 99+% of what I deal with does not rise to that level. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 5:35:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Subsistence hunting without a tag or out of regulations because you are honestly hungry might be one thing. Killing a man in cold blood, however, is an entirely different thing. That poacher is an animal and needs to be hunted down as such. I vote for this. Any one up for a late night scumbag hunt? |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 6:22:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Stopping a poacher is not something worth risking your life over IMO. Most game wardens want to catch them in the act. I really have never understood that part. Depending but most circumstances you can get them when they are leaving the woods if they have game. We had a conservation officer killed in CT . He was trying to catch a hunter hunting after sunset. He wanted to catch him in the stand. It wasn't worth his life for a $100 ticket and 1 year loss of hunting privileges. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 7:13:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: WTF! A man is dead and this what you come up with? Quoted: Quoted: I would not be willing to do the job of a game warden. I would have a problem with the state authorizing me to search peoples buildings and property without a warrant, and I would not do that. I do not and would not go on other peoples posted private property even if authorised by the state. If a citizen were to commit the crime of trespassing on another persons property, there should be no difference if a state employee were to do the same thing without a warrant authorizing such action, and that warrant complying with the constitutional requirements for a valid warrant. All that being said, shooting a game warden is not usually an appropriate course of action. Why don't you elaborate for us? If a game warden breaks into my house to try and steal my tv I'm going to shoot him. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 7:18:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Rest in peace.
My prayers for him and his family. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 8:57:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Anymore info on what actually happened?
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:03:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy who was Poaching may have been on Meth, he could have had an outstanding Warrant for something else. He may have been on probation. He may have feared losing his right to hunt. There are people who would kill you to preserve that. Do not think otherwise. It's even possible that he wasn't poaching but out doing something else illegal. Game wardens get involved in all kinds of stuff that don't pertain to game laws. Hell, my buddy called me the other day to tell us that the game wardens were giving a sobriety test to a guy we know behind the bar he works at. They ended up taking him to jail for DWI and this all happened in the middle of the city miles away from a place anyone would be hunting. Its amazing how many people game wardens arrest for fish and game violations and meth. Its seems like illegal fishing and illegal hunting are popular activities with the tweekers. |
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Posted: 10/1/2011 9:43:21 PM EDT
[#50]
horrible...
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