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Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:02:53 AM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:

My final suggestion is to check out www.bladeforums.com and www.knifeforums.com and read up on convex edges.  You can do some amazing things with a mouse pad and some adhesive backed emery paper...  See e.g. LINK



Essayons:
Thanks for that link.
I recently purchased an HI 15 in BAS khukuri, that has this type edge.
HI British Army Service Khukuri

I am a bit intimidated at sharpening this blade, as I don't want to ruin what edge the Kami put on it, but it could be better.
I frequent Bladeforums HI forum, but am still a bit clueless.

DaddyDett
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:19:48 AM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
what do you use when the edge is heavily abused, pitted, and pretty much gone? I've tried stones and the spyderco, but it would take forever. say i want to make a knife from a file or a leafspring. what would you suggest?




You're going to need a coarse stone.  They will not fill as quickly as the finer stones and but they do wear quicker.  I dont know that a leafspring would have the correct temper to hold a proper edge but you have to put a base bevel on it and then refine that bevel to cutting levels.


Quoted:
Find an old man and have him show you how to use a stone. Then how to strop the blade on your boot or the palm of your hand.



Theres a reason that people dont wear thier strops.  You need to season them and apply a polishing compound plus it must accept very small particles of metal.  Both things I do not want on my boot or in my palm.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:32:16 AM EDT
[#3]
That article about strops is very interesting.  For those strop users here, what do you recommend?

Count me among the people who can't sharpen knives worth @#$@#  

I'm gonna buy a Lansky and see if that helps the problem.  
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:37:50 AM EDT
[#4]
Honing fluid is another consideration.

I used to use Buck honing fluid with hard Arkansas stones. I had to use some Ed's Red bore clearer as a substitute because it's all that was available during one sharpening session at deer camp. The Ed's Red worked so much better than the Bucks fluid, the white sharpening stone actually was cleaner when I was done than it was before I started.

Ed's Red, equal parts of Dexron III ATF, Kerosene, de-odorized paint thinner and acetone if you want a more aggressive cleaner. The original recipe also calls for anhydrous lanolin too but I have not used that in my mixes.

Works great!
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:38:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:44:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:17:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:48:32 PM EDT
[#8]
I bought the Smith's sharpening kit. I figured it should be pretty good, considering the company has been around for over 100 years. It's much like the Lansky set.

It works quite well for what it is. I went knife sharpening crazy, and sharpened every knife I had. That includes kitchen knives, and several knives that belonged my both of my Grandfathers.
The hard Arkansas white stone that came with it wasn't as fine as I am used to, but it does a respectable job.

I have a couple Norton hard Arkansas stones for final polishing, they are probably 1000 grit or so.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:35:19 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
www.razoredgesystems.com/

Clarification:  A "Steel" is a round steel rod, perfectly smooth.  NOT a ceramic rod, NOT a "diamond coated rod", NOT anything with ridges/bumps/grit.  Simply a smooth steel rod!  A Good investment, as this is what you will use for sharpening most ALL of the time!

Most knives only need to be run across a steel to be "razor sharp" again, if they were sharpened properly the first time.

Like cleaning gun bores, what ruins knives is sharpening.  95% of people use a stone where a steel would suffice.

90% of "Dull Knives" only have the wire edge, imagine the last few molucules folded back over, making a rounded edge.

You can find the "wire edge" by lightly running your finger from the spine down across the blade edge on both sides.  You will definately feel the wire edge on a "dull knife"

to make it sharp again, run across a good steel 3-4 times on each side, under the knife's own weight.  The pressure and small contact area make enough friction to sharpen it perfectly.

When people get out the stones to fix a wire edge, they are wasting time, eating up metal, and potential messing up a well cut/sharpened blade.  

Get the "pocket steel" from razor edge systems, and DEFINATELY the book, if you want everything you own to make razor blades seem "ok sharp"

Knife sharpness test:

Hold out your index finger at a 45° downward angle.   Set your knife on your fingernail, with only the weight of the knife on the nail.  It should not move at all.  If it sticks, it is a sharp knife.  

If you can rotate the blade so it is at a 20 degree angle to your fingernail and it still sticks (in a new spot, not where the slight nick was made in the first test), it is "scary sharp"

Just a tip!  As soon as mine doesn't sit on a fingernail at an extreme angle (< 20 degrees, sharpening angle + 2 degrees), I run it across a steel and it is as good as new!


I use knives daily cutting everything you shouldn't.  Benchmade ATS-34 blade on one, which I have last run it across a stone over a year ago, and only the steel since (when needed).  Still razor sharp!

Biggest thing about knife sharpening is to "listen to the blade".  Grind one side until you feel the wire edge continually on the other side, then flip the other side until you feel the wire edge on the continual edge there.  The important thing here is that you continue to make FULL strokes with the stone, and not concentrating on the area(s) that don't have the wire edge on the opposite side yet.  Once this is done, the rest of the time you sharpen it will always "smooth up" quickly.  Between each wired edge on both sides, switch to a finer grit, repeat, until you are touching it up with 1000+ grit.  

Once sharpened properly, unless you are cutting nails/cement/other things that take a 'gouge' out of the edge, ONLY use a steel to make it sharp again.


When it is sharp, drag it across denim or kahki jeans in a pinch instead of the steel to straigten out the wire edge until you get to a steel (where it is "burnt" off from the friction on the steel).   Another thing to use in a pinch is the spine of another good blade for the steel (the corner of it).  Very Very Little pressure, and make sure the spine has no scratches/nicks to ruin your edge.  This is something that takes practice and an eye/touch to "find".

Again:  DO NOT USE STONES UNLESS YOUR EDGE IS DAMAGED FROM THE VIEW OF THE NAKED EYE (this is assuming you have a constant angle cut).

The above covers the meat of what is in the book, but the book has diagrams and explains things much better, I highly recommend it.  I can use any of my hatchets/axes to carve and whittle kindling with.  I also use only a steel on axes/hatchets after wood chopping, unless a rock or nail was hit that dinged the edge.



Having used steel rods for many years I find that a properly seasoned and loaded strop has a much better effect than plain steels.  Steels are much easier to use since there is no preparation but the strop with only a handful of strokes will maintain an edge far sharper.  

Steels are most usefull in kitchens for extremely quick touchups on sushi and fillet knives.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:40:26 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
That article about strops is very interesting.  For those strop users here, what do you recommend?

Count me among the people who can't sharpen knives worth @#$@#  

I'm gonna buy a Lansky and see if that helps the problem.  



You can buy a quality all leather strop for very cheap.  If you want cheaper than that you can use an old leather belt.  If thats not available you can use cardboard from a moving box or even the pages of an old paperback novel.  Whats most important is that you use the correct oil and polishing compound for your job.  Most strops are rough on one side and fine on the other.  Make sure you apply the appropriate polishing compound for that side and work it into the grain of the leather.  

As was said before, shaving sharp is not always the type of sharp you want.  Many times kitchen knives will benefit from stroping and then on or 2 slides of a very fine ceramic rod.  They need the microserrations to properly cut things like tomatoes and other soft meaty things.  This is why most cheap kitchen knives are fully serrated blades, with bread knives being extra large serrations.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 11:01:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 11:46:54 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
what do you use when the edge is heavily abused, pitted, and pretty much gone? I've tried stones and the spyderco, but it would take forever. say i want to make a knife from a file or a leafspring. what would you suggest?



In either of those cases I use a belt sander, with a fresh 200ish grain belt, and slowly and carefully put a profile on the blade. The blade should never get too hot to touch unless you're planning on retempering when you're making your knife from a file, and even then if it's changing color at all you're going too fast.

I use the part of the belt between the pad and the front roller, with enough slack in the belt to put on a nice convex edge.

Be careful to keep the work even down the length of the blade, nothing worse than a nice sharp knife that cuts crooked.

That's the finished product on things like lawnmower blades,(you won't believe how much longer a lawnmower blade with a good convex edge lasts compared to what they come with) I give axes a little polish work on the strop because the edge is stronger that way (400-800 grit and then chromium), ditto chopping type knives. Slicers actually cut pretty good with a course edge if you get it clean, try hitting one side and then the other very lightly on the last pass, you end up with what is basically a micro-serrated blade,  good for stuff like cardboard.

I rarely use the sander on knives unless I'm repairing a broken tip or salvaging a badly abused blade, or fixing a poor profile on something new.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:01:10 AM EDT
[#13]
Soapstone, period.  
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:02:17 AM EDT
[#14]
I have tried arkansas stones, diamond, and lansky systems and I could never get a really sharp edge till I got a EgePro. Yeah it's fucking expensive but holy shit my knives are finally sharp again
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:23:23 AM EDT
[#15]
I have always used a couple of Arkansas stones and some form of oil/lubricant (Last time I tried some Marvel Mystery Oil and it worked pretty well), and a leather strop.  I always use a double bevel, and I have reworked plenty of edges with some rough commercial stones.  

I look at like I do my cooking:  If I can't do it the old fashioned way (REAL butter, REAL foods cooked in/on iron), I don't need to be doing it.

Granddaddy taught me both!!  
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 2:22:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Some of the hardest knives to sharpen, and Buck knives. The come from the factory looking like they were sharpened on a belt sander. It takes a lot of work to get rid of the machine marks.

That really put my Smiths set to the test. Since the Smith set is knew, I haven't had a chance to try it on my Victorinox knife yet. Since thats the only knife I use, it's the one I keep the sharpest.
Using my Norton stone, I can get it scary sharp. I wondet how the Smith set will fair.

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