Just got served for a photo radar ticket - Page 4

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Just got served for a photo radar ticket (Page 4 of 4)

Posted: 10/13/2004 12:44:17 PM EDT

[#1]

If they do not have a good picture of you in the driver seat you can very easily fight it and say your friend was driving your car that day. Might as well try to fight it if you don't want to pay. Anything can happen, who knows you might get lucky.

Posted: 10/13/2004 1:02:41 PM EDT

[#2]

Get a reflective license plate cover.

I have one and it has saved me at least three times. I've been pulled over once for it and the officer told me to take it off or he would give me a $150 ticket. I took it off and drove home and put it back on. Even if he had ticketed me it is still worth it to run a plate cover.

Posted: 10/13/2004 1:05:28 PM EDT

[#3]

Call a lawyer. He can usually get you off fairly cheap. Other people are yelling at you about do the crime/do the time, but I don't agree with them. I'm not of the opinion that a camera should be watching my every action, esp. when they don't feel it's important enough to put a real cop there. Can you say revenue generation?

Posted: 10/13/2004 1:30:02 PM EDT

[#4]

I worked as an Assistant Program Manager on several projects (Automated Toll Collection systems) that included camera enforcement. The less expensive ones generate a picture and somebody reads it, and enhances it to read it. The anti-flash may work if they don't do all they might to enhance.

The expensive ones come out of what was Hughes Aircraft, now Raytheon and include the image processing technology used for a variety of high tech weapons systems targetting and identification. You can't beat those. But they aren't as cheap as the others. (As usual you get what you pay for). Unfortunately, they rejected my suggestion that the system also include Mavericks for scofflaw enforcement.

As noted the plate covers are illegal in AZ, also CA, I expect they are in most states, even under pre-camera laws regarding legibility. As they proliferate, you can expect that the tickets for them will proliferate also. You want to take a chance on getting an equipment fix it every couple of days, put a cover on.

Or the easy and cheap solution is to drive safely.

Posted: 10/13/2004 1:47:33 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

It has been stated in this thread that the cameras only go off if you are going 11 mph over the limit. How do you know the system isn't rigged to ticket people going 5 over and stating it was 11? or people going the limit for that matter? By the time you get the ticket, you've forgotten, and can't know if you were speeding or not. How do you prove the camera wrong?

Uhh, it's common knowledge around here that it's set to 11. I know this to be true because I have driven past them at 50 instead of 45, never got a ticket.
How do you prove a cop wrong if he gives you a ticket? What if he says "my photo radar gun got you goin 56mph" and you know you weren't. You can't prove him wrong. You can go to court, and if that cop shows up and still says his radar gun was reading at 56mph, who is the court going to believe? I don't see how fighting against a camera is any different than a cop. Again, I would rather trust a camera than a cop. People have issues about photo radar is because the camera is always there, so people can't speed down certain streets and gamble that a cop won't be there (which most of the time they are not)

When a cop pulls you over and lies about the speed, you know it because it occurs immediately after the event. If a camera is set to incorrectly ticket vehicles, nobody will be able to remember if they were going the correct speed or not on some random road several weeks ago. An officer might receive a lot of complaints about giving false speeding tickets, and then the department can take note and possibly correct the situation. But a camera with such a delay is not going to have people complaining since they won't remember if they were speeding or not. The red light camera is at least taking a picture showing your car going through the red light, with the red light showing in the frame, but speeding cameras have no proof in the photograph that you were physically speeding. So they ~~can~~will be abused on a greater scale.

I have tried suggesting this but as Guardian855 has posted, he has driven past three cameras and never got a ticket...therefore we can conclude that this does not occur

Posted: 10/13/2004 2:05:51 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

It has been stated in this thread that the cameras only go off if you are going 11 mph over the limit. How do you know the system isn't rigged to ticket people going 5 over and stating it was 11? or people going the limit for that matter? By the time you get the ticket, you've forgotten, and can't know if you were speeding or not. How do you prove the camera wrong?

Uhh, it's common knowledge around here that it's set to 11. I know this to be true because I have driven past them at 50 instead of 45, never got a ticket.
How do you prove a cop wrong if he gives you a ticket? What if he says "my photo radar gun got you goin 56mph" and you know you weren't. You can't prove him wrong. You can go to court, and if that cop shows up and still says his radar gun was reading at 56mph, who is the court going to believe? I don't see how fighting against a camera is any different than a cop. Again, I would rather trust a camera than a cop. People have issues about photo radar is because the camera is always there, so people can't speed down certain streets and gamble that a cop won't be there (which most of the time they are not)

When a cop pulls you over and lies about the speed, you know it because it occurs immediately after the event. If a camera is set to incorrectly ticket vehicles, nobody will be able to remember if they were going the correct speed or not on some random road several weeks ago. An officer might receive a lot of complaints about giving false speeding tickets, and then the department can take note and possibly correct the situation. But a camera with such a delay is not going to have people complaining since they won't remember if they were speeding or not. The red light camera is at least taking a picture showing your car going through the red light, with the red light showing in the frame, but speeding cameras have no proof in the photograph that you were physically speeding. So they ~~can~~will be abused on a greater scale.

I have tried suggesting this but as Guardian855 has posted, he has driven past three cameras and never got a ticket...therefore we can conclude that this does not occur

Well, I guess since legalese77 seems to think these cameras malfunction all of the time, I guess it must happen then.......

No, wait, just thought about it, just means there is a lot of speeders out there.

So far, no one here has been falsely ticketed, anybody out there gotten a ticket in error from these faulty cameras? Has to be someone out there, come on.

Again, I would rather have a camera watching me drive rather than a cop.
Maybe you guys should slow down, I guarantee you you won't get a ticket then

Posted: 10/13/2004 2:09:47 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
If you have a car like that and you believe it's you.....pay up, don't be a punk.

He knows it's him. That's not his point. Now that he is caught he would like to find a loophole out.

Depends how much $$ and time he would like to waste and hopefully he doesn't take the stand and commit worse.

Posted: 10/13/2004 2:14:16 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I dont know about Arizona's laws, but here in Texas we are entitled to a trial by jury if we so desire.

If I had that option I would take it.

It will prob. depend on the state. It's most likely a misdemeanor and/or traffic court and if not punishable by imprisonment MAY not be eligable for a jury trail, only a hearing by magistrate. That finding could be appealed to a Judge in some jurisdictions.

Check your local laws/procedures.

Posted: 10/13/2004 2:32:13 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So, you are willing to lie? It was you in the car, and you did break the law!

I don't know where you read that in anything I've posted.

I have said that from the picture provided I cannot say with any confidence who is driving my car. I have lots of friends of the same complexion who have driven my car. And I have no recollection of who was driving my car on July 6.

Is it likely that it's me? Sure. Does that mean that it was? No. Am I lying in anything I've said here? NO.

Chris

Weasal, weasal, weasal and more weasal.

How positively Clintonian.

Mild Bill

Posted: 10/13/2004 2:52:19 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

It has been stated in this thread that the cameras only go off if you are going 11 mph over the limit. How do you know the system isn't rigged to ticket people going 5 over and stating it was 11? or people going the limit for that matter? By the time you get the ticket, you've forgotten, and can't know if you were speeding or not. How do you prove the camera wrong?

Uhh, it's common knowledge around here that it's set to 11. I know this to be true because I have driven past them at 50 instead of 45, never got a ticket.
How do you prove a cop wrong if he gives you a ticket? What if he says "my photo radar gun got you goin 56mph" and you know you weren't. You can't prove him wrong. You can go to court, and if that cop shows up and still says his radar gun was reading at 56mph, who is the court going to believe? I don't see how fighting against a camera is any different than a cop. Again, I would rather trust a camera than a cop. People have issues about photo radar is because the camera is always there, so people can't speed down certain streets and gamble that a cop won't be there (which most of the time they are not)

When a cop pulls you over and lies about the speed, you know it because it occurs immediately after the event. If a camera is set to incorrectly ticket vehicles, nobody will be able to remember if they were going the correct speed or not on some random road several weeks ago. An officer might receive a lot of complaints about giving false speeding tickets, and then the department can take note and possibly correct the situation. But a camera with such a delay is not going to have people complaining since they won't remember if they were speeding or not. The red light camera is at least taking a picture showing your car going through the red light, with the red light showing in the frame, but speeding cameras have no proof in the photograph that you were physically speeding. So they ~~can~~will be abused on a greater scale.

I have tried suggesting this but as Guardian855 has posted, he has driven past three cameras and never got a ticket...therefore we can conclude that this does not occur

Well, I guess since legalese77 seems to think these cameras malfunction all of the time, I guess it must happen then.......

No, wait, just thought about it, just means there is a lot of speeders out there.

So far, no one here has been falsely ticketed, anybody out there gotten a ticket in error from these faulty cameras? Has to be someone out there, come on.

Again, I would rather have a camera watching me drive rather than a cop.
Maybe you guys should slow down, I guarantee you you won't get a ticket then

Got ADD? Once again attributing statements never made or implied. I have not once opined on the guilt or innocence of the author in this thread. I have only advocated putting the state to its proof. You, on the other hand have denied that the camera could be inaccurate, impliedly suggesting either 1) that you have personal knowledge of this case and the accuracy of the camera radar in particular or 2) that it is your position that such an error never occurs. Which is it? I know you say you live in AZ (and this coupled with the fact that you have driven past three cameras makes you an authority) but you didn't mention that you were responsible for maintaining and calibrating all the cameras and associated radar. I never said anything that can be construed as "cameras are always faulty" or "nobody ever speeds" Good grief... do you have me confused with someone else?

Posted: 10/13/2004 2:53:58 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If you have a car like that and you believe it's you.....pay up, don't be a punk.

He knows it's him. That's not his point. Now that he is caught he would like to find a loophole out.

Depends how much $$ and time he would like to waste and hopefully he doesn't take the stand and commit worse.

Since when has a trial become a loophole? If he's so damn guilty, he'll be found guilty...what is everyone so afraid of...that the system doesn't work?

Posted: 10/13/2004 3:37:56 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
...what is everyone so afraid of...

The idea that an active member of this board, and black rifle owner, would perjure himself to save a couple hundred bucks. We are better than that.

The oath is to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Tap dancing around the issue with answers like "from that picture I cannot tell" or "I cannot recall who was driving my car that day" is in most cases perjury. Its like Bill Clinton debating the definition of "is."

Posted: 10/13/2004 4:17:53 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

It has been stated in this thread that the cameras only go off if you are going 11 mph over the limit. How do you know the system isn't rigged to ticket people going 5 over and stating it was 11? or people going the limit for that matter? By the time you get the ticket, you've forgotten, and can't know if you were speeding or not. How do you prove the camera wrong?

Uhh, it's common knowledge around here that it's set to 11. I know this to be true because I have driven past them at 50 instead of 45, never got a ticket.
How do you prove a cop wrong if he gives you a ticket? What if he says "my photo radar gun got you goin 56mph" and you know you weren't. You can't prove him wrong. You can go to court, and if that cop shows up and still says his radar gun was reading at 56mph, who is the court going to believe? I don't see how fighting against a camera is any different than a cop. Again, I would rather trust a camera than a cop. People have issues about photo radar is because the camera is always there, so people can't speed down certain streets and gamble that a cop won't be there (which most of the time they are not)

When a cop pulls you over and lies about the speed, you know it because it occurs immediately after the event. If a camera is set to incorrectly ticket vehicles, nobody will be able to remember if they were going the correct speed or not on some random road several weeks ago. An officer might receive a lot of complaints about giving false speeding tickets, and then the department can take note and possibly correct the situation. But a camera with such a delay is not going to have people complaining since they won't remember if they were speeding or not. The red light camera is at least taking a picture showing your car going through the red light, with the red light showing in the frame, but speeding cameras have no proof in the photograph that you were physically speeding. So they ~~can~~will be abused on a greater scale.

I have tried suggesting this but as Guardian855 has posted, he has driven past three cameras and never got a ticket...therefore we can conclude that this does not occur

Well, I guess since legalese77 seems to think these cameras malfunction all of the time, I guess it must happen then.......

No, wait, just thought about it, just means there is a lot of speeders out there.

So far, no one here has been falsely ticketed, anybody out there gotten a ticket in error from these faulty cameras? Has to be someone out there, come on.

Again, I would rather have a camera watching me drive rather than a cop.
Maybe you guys should slow down, I guarantee you you won't get a ticket then

Cameras DO malfunction. Search the net, you can find situations where the cameras have been taking pictures while the light was green(at least the photo shows it, but the person still has to go to court to fight it because the asshole reviewing the photos only bothers to check the plates and not the light), and the wonderful malfunctions where the cameras turn the lights from green to red, with no yellow. Some cities even have cameras that detect the speed of oncoming traffic and lengthen the red to punish them as well as sending a speeding ticket. So, malfunctions with some of these cameras that have computer control of the traffic signals could even kill people.

But, I'm not talking about malfunctioning cameras, I'm talking about cameras being specifically programed to operate incorrectly to generate more revenue, which is the case with most red light cameras in the country today. So, it'd be logical to assume they are doing the same to the speeding cameras.

Posted: 10/13/2004 4:31:04 PM EDT

[#14]

I don't think anyone has touched on the fact that an LEO who has pulled you over can exercise discretionary authority in issuing a ticket...these cameras cannot.

Twice I have been pulled over for speeding under "semi" emergency conditions...both times let off after the officer listened to my situation. What if you are taking someone who is seriously injured or dying to the emergency room (one example)? Sure, it could be proven why you were speeding (thus allowing the court to use discretionary authority), but do you really want the hassle?

For those of you in favor of these cameras, do you really favor limiting discretionary authority in the way these laws are applied?

I believe they are legal. However, I do not believe they are right and they are not a "good thing" for this country.

IBCGUY

Posted: 10/13/2004 4:46:34 PM EDT

[#15]

Take the Pictures and $100 to a traffic lawyer--tell him he gets $100 cash if he can get you off the ticket. Likely he can easily do so.

AFARR

Posted: 10/13/2004 5:31:08 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
...what is everyone so afraid of...

The idea that an active member of this board, and black rifle owner, would perjure himself to save a couple hundred bucks. We are better than that.

The oath is to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Tap dancing around the issue with answers like "from that picture I cannot tell" or "I cannot recall who was driving my car that day" is in most cases perjury. Its like Bill Clinton debating the definition of "is."

That IS something to be concerned about. Of course, he doesn't have to take the stand and therefore no oath or lies and yet he can still enjoy the benefits of the rights that make this country great and if the system works, an innocent man will be acquitted, or a guilty man convicted.

Posted: 10/14/2004 9:05:18 AM EDT

[#17]

I haven't posted for a while on the thread because I was interested to see where this discussion went.

I don't understand some of the people on this board. You claim to be freedom loving people and support personal responsibility. Yet you defer reason constantly to the government.

I have no argument with the service of the summons, I was served at home.

What I'm asking now and from the start of this thread; from the evidence provided (the photo posted) has the city met its burden of proof?

Can any of you people who have said "suck it up be a man" truthfully say that the photo is identifable?

Chris

Posted: 10/14/2004 9:19:55 AM EDT

[#18]

One issue that it depends on is what standard of proof is required by law. In some states, the fact that it is yur car is enough proof. Think of it like a parking ticket.

They don;t have to prove that YOU parked the car there, merely that it was your car and you are responsible for it.

Genreally, in traffic court, they must prove that it was you driving the car.

Posted: 10/14/2004 9:23:32 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
One issue that it depends on is what standard of proof is required by law. In some states, the fact that it is yur car is enough proof. Think of it like a parking ticket.

They don;t have to prove that YOU parked the car there, merely that it was your car and you are responsible for it.

Genreally, in traffic court, they must prove that it was you driving the car.

Yes you are right SC.
Here in AZ they need to prove that it was me driving, or they want me to turn over who ever it was.

Chris

Posted: 10/14/2004 11:01:23 AM EDT

[#20]

I don;t know if you have to turn in the person driving.

Of course, that could be obstruction of justice.

Nut, let them find john smith who was in from the bahamas.

Posted: 10/14/2004 1:18:29 PM EDT

[#21]

f**k the hi-tech bacon - fight it. your face is obscured. and tell the dept of revenue enhancement to shove it up the dirt circle for me!

Posted: 10/14/2004 1:34:59 PM EDT

[#22]

Shave your head, have a full beard, have a good tan....now Fight it!

Posted: 10/14/2004 1:35:40 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

But, I'm not talking about malfunctioning cameras, I'm talking about cameras being specifically programed to operate incorrectly to generate more revenue, which is the case with most red light cameras in the country today. So, it'd be logical to assume they are doing the same to the speeding cameras.

Big statement there, got any proof or is that you're personal feeling?

Posted: 10/14/2004 2:52:17 PM EDT

[#24]

It would take an awfully stupid bureaucrat (OK OK there are some) to order that based on the legal history of mal-adjusted camera systems court outcomes. Any revenue enhancement that came of it would immediately flow back out and at a higher penalty rate the first time somebody had a lawyer fight it. First you get the lawyer timing and/or testing theysystem, his expert comes in and the city has to show whe and where the calibrations standards, etc, who programmed it. Was that person incompetent and did it wrong accidentally, or on purpose. Well he's going to try to save his job, "I was ordered to do it wrong." and so on

Most of these systems have built in test and calibration so they can stand up to court challenges for accuracy, so if they are bad it has to be on purpose and once a Judge finds that an entity fucked with them, then the penalties flow. In otherwords it aint worth it.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Just got served for a photo radar ticket (Page 4 of 4)

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