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Posted: 3/28/2014 12:57:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When Embody first posted his 5.45 pistol, I sent him a polite email about 5.45 imports and even a link to the story about what happened with 7.62x39 steel core. His only response: "I don't give a shit." <o:p></o:p> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How does this work? If someo one were to use 5.45x39 as a pistol, that is a means to ban that from importation? Someone can buy an AK pistol like a Draco in 7.62x39 and that's good to go. Can someone put this in lay mans terms please? No steel core ammo in a pistol. Once a pistol has been made in a caliber, steel core ammo is forbidden/banned. 7.62x39 used to be dirt cheap for the Chinese steel core ammo. Then Olympic Arms ass fucked the American shooters and built a pistol in 7.62x39. ATF ruled it was now a pistol round and banned all import/sale of steel core 7.62x39. 5.45x39 7n6 ammo is steel core. History is repeating itself. Cant wait to find out who is getting black balled When Embody first posted his 5.45 pistol, I sent him a polite email about 5.45 imports and even a link to the story about what happened with 7.62x39 steel core. His only response: "I don't give a shit." <o:p></o:p> 
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:01:01 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm going to laugh really hard at all of you panic buying when this turns out to be nothing more than a mall ninja receptionist with a completely wrong understanding of office events. It's either that or they responded that way because you guys asked about "steel core" and of course they'd say thats not going to happen because they remember the 7.62x39 import ban. When in reality 7N6 is perfectly fine because it doesn't meet the same definitions.
You just have to understand how government agencies work to understand this is no big deal. Its just them covering their ass by saying of course we wont let you import steel core ammo... when in reality they never specifically said 7N6. Until they publish something that specifically targets the surplus we shoot, I call BS. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:01:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Is it possible that a US ammo maker might start making 5.45?
I was wanting to one day have a 5.45 carbine upper one day. I guess that's not happening now. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:02:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to laugh really hard at all of you panic buying when this turns out to be nothing more than a mall ninja receptionist with a completely wrong understanding of office events. It's either that or they responded that way because you guys asked about "steel core" and of course they'd say thats not going to happen because they remember the 7.62x39 import ban. When in reality 7N6 is perfectly fine because it doesn't meet the same definitions. You just have to understand how government agencies work to understand this is no big deal. Its just them covering their ass by saying of course we wont let you import steel core ammo... when in reality they never specifically said 7N6. Until they publish something that specifically targets the surplus we shoot, I call BS. I wish I had your optimism. 
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:03:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Well...at least the AK74 parts kits and surplus mags are going to finally come back down in price....
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:04:18 PM EDT
[#6]
I've got $100 donation for any company that seriously challenges this in court. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:04:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to laugh really hard at all of you panic buying when this turns out to be nothing more than a mall ninja receptionist with a completely wrong understanding of office events. It's either that or they responded that way because you guys asked about "steel core" and of course they'd say thats not going to happen because they remember the 7.62x39 import ban. When in reality 7N6 is perfectly fine because it doesn't meet the same definitions. You just have to understand how government agencies work to understand this is no big deal. Its just them covering their ass by saying of course we wont let you import steel core ammo... when in reality they never specifically said 7N6. Until they publish something that specifically targets the surplus we shoot, I call BS. I hope you are 100% right....but I doubt you are. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:05:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it possible that a US ammo maker might start making 5.45? I was wanting to one day have a 5.45 carbine upper one day. I guess that's not happening now. Hornady already does: http://www.hornady.com/store/5.45X39-60-gr-V-MAX-Steel-Case/ And as only the primed cases are imported, this particular ammunition will likely be available for a long time to come - granted, at a much much higher price. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:05:29 PM EDT
[#9]
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Is it possible that a US ammo maker might start making 5.45? I was wanting to one day have a 5.45 carbine upper one day. I guess that's not happening now. of course, but not for .15 a rnd... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:07:47 PM EDT
[#10]
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Chicom 7.62 steel core was literally all steel core. 7n6 has a sizeable and deliberate (not trace amount) lead component in the core and does not meet the parameters in the clause Chicom 7.62 was banned under. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll admit surprise that the ATF has gone this far out on a limb, because at this point a first-year law student could beat them black and blue over this in court. I presume you're volunteering your services. While your at it, please overturn the determination that 7.62X39 cartridges with steel in the bullet core is armor piercing, too. It should be a breeze, since the determination has been made under the same subparagraph. Thanks and Good Luck ... Chicom 7.62 steel core was literally all steel core. 7n6 has a sizeable and deliberate (not trace amount) lead component in the core and does not meet the parameters in the clause Chicom 7.62 was banned under. You don't know what your posting about. Chinese made surplus has a lead sleeve around the steel insert. I know this because I have cut some apart. Soviet M43 (which incidently is what the Chinese copied) has a lead sleeve as well. From the Soviet AK Service Manual page 139, "The bullet in the ball cartridge M1943 consists of a steel tombac-plated jacket, lead sleeve, and steel core." Have you seen any surplus Soviet era 7.62X39 cartridges which were imported recently? Wonder why not? It's because importation is banned. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:09:08 PM EDT
[#11]
AIM sold 440 cans within 1/2 hr.
USAC, who claims to be the retail arm of a major importer, had well over 1500 tins listed this morning and now show out of stock. I'm scared. Edit: think it was all sold, not pulled, after seeing all this shit going out of stock crazy-like. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:11:35 PM EDT
[#12]
PSA still has some. I just ordered a couple more just a minute ago. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:12:09 PM EDT
[#13]
psa 5.45
ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:12:10 PM EDT
[#14]
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You don't know what your posting about. Chinese made surplus has a lead sleeve around the steel insert. I know this because I have cut some apart. Soviet M43 (which incidently is what the Chinese copied) has a lead sleeve as well. From the Soviet AK Service Manual page 139, "The bullet in the ball cartridge M1943 consists of a steel tombac-plated jacket, lead sleeve, and steel core." Have you seen any surplus Soviet era 7.62X39 cartridges which were imported recently? Wonder why not? It's because importation is banned. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll admit surprise that the ATF has gone this far out on a limb, because at this point a first-year law student could beat them black and blue over this in court. I presume you're volunteering your services. While your at it, please overturn the determination that 7.62X39 cartridges with steel in the bullet core is armor piercing, too. It should be a breeze, since the determination has been made under the same subparagraph. Thanks and Good Luck ... Chicom 7.62 steel core was literally all steel core. 7n6 has a sizeable and deliberate (not trace amount) lead component in the core and does not meet the parameters in the clause Chicom 7.62 was banned under. You don't know what your posting about. Chinese made surplus has a lead sleeve around the steel insert. I know this because I have cut some apart. Soviet M43 (which incidently is what the Chinese copied) has a lead sleeve as well. From the Soviet AK Service Manual page 139, "The bullet in the ball cartridge M1943 consists of a steel tombac-plated jacket, lead sleeve, and steel core." Have you seen any surplus Soviet era 7.62X39 cartridges which were imported recently? Wonder why not? It's because importation is banned. And has anybody bothered to challenge that ruling, since the deliberately included lead component makes it obvious that it doesn't fit the definition it was banned under? |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:12:19 PM EDT
[#15]
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No steel core ammo in a pistol. Once a pistol has been made in a caliber, steel core ammo is forbidden/banned. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How does this work? If someo one were to use 5.45x39 as a pistol, that is a means to ban that from importation? Someone can buy an AK pistol like a Draco in 7.62x39 and that's good to go. Can someone put this in lay mans terms please? No steel core ammo in a pistol. Once a pistol has been made in a caliber, steel core ammo is forbidden/banned. so those with pistols can't shoot 5.45 in them from now on? |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:12:51 PM EDT
[#16]
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All the big dealers started pulling their listings. Either AIM sold over 440 tins in 30 minutes or they pulled it. USAC, who claims to be the retail arm of a major importer, had well over 1500 tins listed this morning and now show out of stock. I'm scared. Aim sold over 10k cans in like 3 days of 5.45 a couple weeks back. People aren't messing around anymore. I am sure there are going to be some price changes and "pulling" of stock. Can't really blame some of the vendors. They have bills to pay. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:13:16 PM EDT
[#17]
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All the big dealers started pulling their listings. Either AIM sold over 440 tins in 30 minutes or they pulled it. USAC, who claims to be the retail arm of a major importer, had well over 1500 tins listed this morning and now show out of stock. I'm scared. Willing to bet they sold it. Don't underestimate the power of a panic on ARFCOM. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:13:56 PM EDT
[#18]
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so those with pistols can't shoot 5.45 in them from now on? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How does this work? If someo one were to use 5.45x39 as a pistol, that is a means to ban that from importation? Someone can buy an AK pistol like a Draco in 7.62x39 and that's good to go. Can someone put this in lay mans terms please? No steel core ammo in a pistol. Once a pistol has been made in a caliber, steel core ammo is forbidden/banned. so those with pistols can't shoot 5.45 in them from now on? 
Repeat after me: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 5.45X39MM PISTOL |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:14:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Lol @ aim's mass marketing email that just popped up in my inbox. Ain't no 5.45 to be had this weekend.
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:17:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). Aaaaand its gone. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:17:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Palmetto.... JUST went out of stock.
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:17:47 PM EDT
[#22]
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). Shows out of stock when you try to order |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:17:56 PM EDT
[#23]
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). and gone |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:18:13 PM EDT
[#24]
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). Out of stock now. J&G still has some. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:18:41 PM EDT
[#25]
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Repeat after me: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 5.45X39MM PISTOL Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How does this work? If someo one were to use 5.45x39 as a pistol, that is a means to ban that from importation? Someone can buy an AK pistol like a Draco in 7.62x39 and that's good to go. Can someone put this in lay mans terms please? No steel core ammo in a pistol. Once a pistol has been made in a caliber, steel core ammo is forbidden/banned. so those with pistols can't shoot 5.45 in them from now on?
Repeat after me: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 5.45X39MM PISTOL Might wanna tell Desirae that |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:20:28 PM EDT
[#26]
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Repeat after me: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 5.45X39MM PISTOL Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How does this work? If someo one were to use 5.45x39 as a pistol, that is a means to ban that from importation? Someone can buy an AK pistol like a Draco in 7.62x39 and that's good to go. Can someone put this in lay mans terms please? No steel core ammo in a pistol. Once a pistol has been made in a caliber, steel core ammo is forbidden/banned. so those with pistols can't shoot 5.45 in them from now on?
Repeat after me: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 5.45X39MM PISTOL but it's legal to shoot them with rifles i assume? |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:20:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aim sold over 10k cans in like 3 days of 5.45 a couple weeks back. People aren't messing around anymore. I am sure there are going to be some price changes and "pulling" of stock. Can't really blame some of the vendors. They have bills to pay. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All the big dealers started pulling their listings. Either AIM sold over 440 tins in 30 minutes or they pulled it. USAC, who claims to be the retail arm of a major importer, had well over 1500 tins listed this morning and now show out of stock. I'm scared. Aim sold over 10k cans in like 3 days of 5.45 a couple weeks back. People aren't messing around anymore. I am sure there are going to be some price changes and "pulling" of stock. Can't really blame some of the vendors. They have bills to pay. I wouldn't blame them at all. It wouldn't make sense to sell shit now for less than you'd have to buy it back at from an importer. Also, the markup on 5.45x39 is next to nothing and turnover isn't well either, so it hardly even helps them to carry it. Quoted:
Willing to bet they sold it. Don't underestimate the power of a panic on ARFCOM. Certainly could be, either way, high prices seem to be inbound. I'm worried as to whether they know something for sure that we don't, if they did pull it. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:21:03 PM EDT
[#28]
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Aaaaand its gone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). Aaaaand its gone. Upped the price $20. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:21:08 PM EDT
[#29]
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is it all 5.45 or just 7n6? Looks like we are getting played with on that answer. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:21:17 PM EDT
[#30]
The Irony is you no longer have to wait for congress or the president to attack your civil rights
ATF can just ambush them at their leisure |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:21:28 PM EDT
[#31]
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Willing to bet they sold it. Don't underestimate the power of a panic on ARFCOM. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All the big dealers started pulling their listings. Either AIM sold over 440 tins in 30 minutes or they pulled it. USAC, who claims to be the retail arm of a major importer, had well over 1500 tins listed this morning and now show out of stock. I'm scared. Willing to bet they sold it. Don't underestimate the power of a panic on ARFCOM. This. As soon as the rumor was confirmed, I started hunting. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I managed to snag a couple more cases. There goes my ammo budget for the summer... |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:21:54 PM EDT
[#32]
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And has anybody bothered to challenge that ruling, since the deliberately included lead component makes it obvious that it doesn't fit the definition it was banned under? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll admit surprise that the ATF has gone this far out on a limb, because at this point a first-year law student could beat them black and blue over this in court. I presume you're volunteering your services. While your at it, please overturn the determination that 7.62X39 cartridges with steel in the bullet core is armor piercing, too. It should be a breeze, since the determination has been made under the same subparagraph. Thanks and Good Luck ... Chicom 7.62 steel core was literally all steel core. 7n6 has a sizeable and deliberate (not trace amount) lead component in the core and does not meet the parameters in the clause Chicom 7.62 was banned under. You don't know what your posting about. Chinese made surplus has a lead sleeve around the steel insert. I know this because I have cut some apart. Soviet M43 (which incidently is what the Chinese copied) has a lead sleeve as well. From the Soviet AK Service Manual page 139, "The bullet in the ball cartridge M1943 consists of a steel tombac-plated jacket, lead sleeve, and steel core." Have you seen any surplus Soviet era 7.62X39 cartridges which were imported recently? Wonder why not? It's because importation is banned. And has anybody bothered to challenge that ruling, since the deliberately included lead component makes it obvious that it doesn't fit the definition it was banned under? If not, you'll be the first, right? Do you know the the standard of review for an agency determination like this? Do you know how difficult it is to meet that standard and get such a determination overturned? Have you tried and succeeded? Have you tried and failed? Have you represented an agency charged with making such determinations? If you're not an experienced expert in these matters I suggest you do some studying, before posting your opinion.
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:21:58 PM EDT
[#33]
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Upped the price $20. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). Aaaaand its gone. Upped the price $20. Neckbearding 101 |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:22:01 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:22:19 PM EDT
[#35]
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but it's legal to shoot them with rifles i assume? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How does this work? If someo one were to use 5.45x39 as a pistol, that is a means to ban that from importation? Someone can buy an AK pistol like a Draco in 7.62x39 and that's good to go. Can someone put this in lay mans terms please? No steel core ammo in a pistol. Once a pistol has been made in a caliber, steel core ammo is forbidden/banned. so those with pistols can't shoot 5.45 in them from now on?
Repeat after me: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 5.45X39MM PISTOL but it's legal to shoot them with rifles i assume? I don't think you understand me... There is no such thing as a 5.45x39mm pistol. Never has been. Anyone who says otherwise should be silenced. Now, the ammo feeds just fine through 5.45x39mm rifles and (registered NFA) short barreled rifles. But there is not now, nor has there ever been, such a thing as as 5.45x39mm pistol. 
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:22:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Just watched ammotogo dwindle to 5 cans in stock.
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:23:03 PM EDT
[#37]
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Upped the price $20. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). Aaaaand its gone. Upped the price $20. The gouging has begun. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:23:11 PM EDT
[#38]
Little bit left here-
http://shop.militaryshooters.com/catalog/catmfg.asp?ret_id=140211&scid=866&mfgid=7711 |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:23:34 PM EDT
[#39]
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Looks like we are getting played with on that answer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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is it all 5.45 or just 7n6? Looks like we are getting played with on that answer. It's just 7N6. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:23:42 PM EDT
[#40]
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). shows back in stock military shooters has it too |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:23:52 PM EDT
[#41]
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The gouging has begun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). Aaaaand its gone. Upped the price $20. The gouging has begun. LOL... Fucking no shame at PSA |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:24:53 PM EDT
[#42]
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). They didn't have very much. I checked out with 1 earlier no problem. saw how fast this was getting real shitty, went back for more tried for 50 and it said nope, punched in 9 and checked the fuck out. This shit is re-damn-diculous. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:25:22 PM EDT
[#43]
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Glad to see you are concerned and on point....finally.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Somebody submitted a pistol in that caliber to determine if its legal to import.... Just what I heard..Don't take it as Gospel So the NSSF is spinning up a lawsuit to get an injunction, right? Since submitting a pistol in 5.45 doesn't have jack-shit to do with the law. Glad to see you are concerned and on point....finally. Because the whole "I know people, but cant say nuthin" really lends credibility to an argument. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:25:29 PM EDT
[#44]
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LOL... Fucking no shame at PSA Quote HistoryQuoted:
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). Aaaaand its gone. Upped the price $20. The gouging has begun. LOL... Fucking no shame at PSA It will sell out at $399 a case. Jump on it. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:26:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Guys I have 2-1080rd cans. I will sell for $900 each. Let me know .
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:26:54 PM EDT
[#46]
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It's just 7N6. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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is it all 5.45 or just 7n6? Looks like we are getting played with on that answer. It's just 7N6. I know. I was obtusely commenting on the game being played to move the commercial stuff (by more than one vendor, in multiple threads). |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:27:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Sportsman's Guide still has some. Price is higher per tin, but a lot of people use coupons for free shipping or $ off.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=1551241 |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:28:08 PM EDT
[#48]
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Neckbearding 101 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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psa 5.45 ETA: Either PSA just sold out in 5 minutes flat or they pulled what they had (or didn't have that much to start with). Aaaaand its gone. Upped the price $20. Neckbearding 101 Lol! I tried placing an order for it half an hour ago, was able to add it to my cart. Tried to check out, and I got the "out of stock" notification. Just went back, and YEP.... In stock and $20 higher. |
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:28:11 PM EDT
[#49]
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Guys I have 2-1080rd cans. I will sell for $900 each. Let me know . Got a couple cans, 875$
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Posted: 3/28/2014 1:28:23 PM EDT
[#50]
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