[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is Liberty Safe the new Benchmade? (Page 3 of 21)
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Quoted: Lol. The target is about to get railroaded with some bullshit J6 charge, destroying his $1,300 safe is the least of his worries. We all know a RSC can be forcibly breached easily by anyone with the right tools. Make them work for it, that’s the whole point of a safe. Quoted: Quoted: This. They spared the target the destruction of their RSC. Liberty safes provide zero protection from entry by the government. If you think otherwise, you are delusional. Lol. The target is about to get railroaded with some bullshit J6 charge, destroying his $1,300 safe is the least of his worries. We all know a RSC can be forcibly breached easily by anyone with the right tools. Make them work for it, that’s the whole point of a safe. Until everyone tells the government to get fucked, and it ain't our jobs to make their jobs easier, they will just keep fucking with people to get their cooperation "or else." Fuck them all to hell, including Liberty for making the government thugs jobs easier. Nobody can think this is a just cause. This is political persecution, and those involved in it are enemies of us. |
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Quoted: From an ideals standpoint, I’d agree. From a realistic standpoint, the government (or a determined person/entity) with a small amount of time and access, is in that safe with basically no effort, even absent the code. So to me at least, it’s kinda meh. Saves me from having to repair/replace the door if I forget the combo or the electronic lock zeroes out. From what I’ve read, seems like most gun safe manufacturers utilize/possess “backdoor” codes for their products. I’d venture a guess having them saves the company a lot more times than it hurts considering most “gun safes” provide basically no security from any adversary with time and access. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I believe this is a “backdoor” code that Liberty retains and is always in effect. This isn’t the user access code you set/change after you buy the safe. That’s even worse if true. Much worse. From an ideals standpoint, I’d agree. From a realistic standpoint, the government (or a determined person/entity) with a small amount of time and access, is in that safe with basically no effort, even absent the code. So to me at least, it’s kinda meh. Saves me from having to repair/replace the door if I forget the combo or the electronic lock zeroes out. From what I’ve read, seems like most gun safe manufacturers utilize/possess “backdoor” codes for their products. I’d venture a guess having them saves the company a lot more times than it hurts considering most “gun safes” provide basically no security from any adversary with time and access. This is a problem I’ve had with modern day gun safes. They’re all digital locks. I don’t want a digital lock for a multitude of reasons. You can add manufacturer back door code to that list. |
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Quoted: This is a problem I’ve had with modern day gun safes. They’re all digital locks. I don’t want a digital lock for a multitude of reasons. You can add manufacturer back door code to that list. No they aren’t. Plenty of mechanical lock safes are available. It’s a silly argument anyways. Most safes are not going to be that hard to get into combo or not. |
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Quoted: Not a warrant that named Liberty Safe, no. But this is easy to solve. Only buy a safe from a manufacturer that will agree in writing that they'll never cooperate with law enforcement. When you find one, I would say post about it here but this place also cooperates with law enforcement so I guess we'll have to pass notes from cell to cell. |
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Quoted: This^^^^ I've been thinking of replacing my digital lock with a S&G. This may have just sealed it. Granted, if the fedgov has a warrant they are getting in no matter what, but this situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Quoted: Quoted: They should never have had the code to begin with, or the end user should be given clear instructions and recommendations to change it once installed. This^^^^ I've been thinking of replacing my digital lock with a S&G. This may have just sealed it. Granted, if the fedgov has a warrant they are getting in no matter what, but this situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So, the electronic lock on my safe is an S&G, so presumably this backdoor is built into it by S&G. Is this at the request of Liberty? Or is this a standard “feature” from S&G? How about with replacement locks? Are mechanicals not capable of having a secondary “backdoor” combo? I’ve got a lot of questions now. |
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Quoted: what if the cops were British Quoted: Quoted: The cops say "don't make me get a warrant" all the time to suckers. Liberty could have said "no, sorry it's a violation of our company privacy policy to give out information without a warrant absent proof life is at risk (like someone is stuffed in a safe)" The cops would have just cut it open. They weren't going to do anything to Liberty about it, it's just a bluff what if the cops were British |
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Quoted: So, the electronic lock on my safe is an S&G, so presumably this backdoor is built into it by S&G. Is this at the request of Liberty? Or is this a standard “feature” from S&G? How about with replacement locks? Are mechanicals not capable of having a secondary “backdoor” combo? I’ve got a lot of questions now. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They should never have had the code to begin with, or the end user should be given clear instructions and recommendations to change it once installed. This^^^^ I've been thinking of replacing my digital lock with a S&G. This may have just sealed it. Granted, if the fedgov has a warrant they are getting in no matter what, but this situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So, the electronic lock on my safe is an S&G, so presumably this backdoor is built into it by S&G. Is this at the request of Liberty? Or is this a standard “feature” from S&G? How about with replacement locks? Are mechanicals not capable of having a secondary “backdoor” combo? I’ve got a lot of questions now. Liberty is Securam. Securam would’ve put the back door in. Liberty would have known about it since they made a deal to use Securam electronic locks. Some mechanical lock safes come with someplace you can use a key. That key hole can be picked and is probably the weakest part of the safe. |
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Quoted: Because an angle grinder won’t allow access into a cell phone. Not the type of access “they” want. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: People don't think warrants be like it is, but it do.  Because an angle grinder won’t allow access into a cell phone. Not the type of access “they” want. And Apple didn’t have the code. They would have to create some mechanism to hack the phone and open a pandora’s box. |
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Quoted: Why do they be like they do for Liberty and not be doing the same with Apple? Because there’s always an alternative to the access code with a safe...and it’s destruction of the customer’s property AND the .gov still getting to what they wanted all along. You think Liberty NOT giving up the code provides any sort of deterrent to or protection from an unconstitutional warrant? Serious question. That same damn thing happens. They still have their evidence and you’re filing a suppression motion after the fact, only now you also have a useless safe. |
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Quoted: The major fuckup by Liberty is that they have always denied the existence of backdoor access codes to owners and lock/safesmiths. They straight up said they have no such backdoors, therefore they can't help you if you lost/forgot your code so just call a locksmith and drill it. Now it comes out that a backdoor exists and they hand it over, no questions asked to anyone with a rubber stamped warrant. THAT is what should get Liberty Safe boycotted. That is not my experience. when i had issues with my safe lock (my code wasnt working), i called liberty and they sent out a safe smith or whatever they are called. The smith tried my code, then called a number and entered a different code, my safe unlocked and we were able to change my code. |
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Quoted: That is not my experience. when i had issues with my safe lock (my code wasnt working), i called liberty and they sent out a safe smith or whatever they are called. The smith tried my code, then called a number and entered a different code, my safe unlocked and we were able to change my code. Quoted: Quoted: The major fuckup by Liberty is that they have always denied the existence of backdoor access codes to owners and lock/safesmiths. They straight up said they have no such backdoors, therefore they can't help you if you lost/forgot your code so just call a locksmith and drill it. Now it comes out that a backdoor exists and they hand it over, no questions asked to anyone with a rubber stamped warrant. THAT is what should get Liberty Safe boycotted. That is not my experience. when i had issues with my safe lock (my code wasnt working), i called liberty and they sent out a safe smith or whatever they are called. The smith tried my code, then called a number and entered a different code, my safe unlocked and we were able to change my code. They sent me mine within a few hours of the request. |
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Quoted: They certainly could, and then the FBI could find a way to retaliate because they're out of control. It's not really a winning strategy to expect Liberty to fix our FBI problem. Quoted: Quoted: Liberty wasnt served the warrant. They could tell the FBI to fuck off They certainly could, and then the FBI could find a way to retaliate because they're out of control. It's not really a winning strategy to expect Liberty to fix our FBI problem. Well, they didn't have to roll over. Now we are left knowing that the corrupt government will just ask, and Liberty will blow their big cock. Don't have a great solution to that, but step one is me getting closer to saying that the FBI can rot under the jail. Why do you think I now have a policy of asking what was really going on whenever any government agents meet resistance? Maybe, just maybe, someone had enough of criminal behavior by said government agents. |
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Quoted: The major fuckup by Liberty is that they have always denied the existence of backdoor access codes to owners and lock/safesmiths. They straight up said they have no such backdoors, therefore they can't help you if you lost/forgot your code so just call a locksmith and drill it. Now it comes out that a backdoor exists and they hand it over, no questions asked to anyone with a rubber stamped warrant. THAT is what should get Liberty Safe boycotted. Exactly what is a rubber stamped warrant, how do you ID one when presented with it by LE, and what do you personally do when presented with one? This is always the trap the left sets for the right. 1. Accuse them of a crime, 2. Wait for them to commit crimes covering up for the crime that likely couldn’t be proven to begin with 3. Profit Like dolts, we keep on falling for it. |
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Quoted: So, the electronic lock on my safe is an S&G, so presumably this backdoor is built into it by S&G. Is this at the request of Liberty? Or is this a standard “feature” from S&G? How about with replacement locks? Are mechanicals not capable of having a secondary “backdoor” combo? I’ve got a lot of questions now. I've never tried this, but.............  How to Dial Open a Combination Safe Lock video |
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Quoted: They sent me mine within a few hours of the request. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The major fuckup by Liberty is that they have always denied the existence of backdoor access codes to owners and lock/safesmiths. They straight up said they have no such backdoors, therefore they can't help you if you lost/forgot your code so just call a locksmith and drill it. Now it comes out that a backdoor exists and they hand it over, no questions asked to anyone with a rubber stamped warrant. THAT is what should get Liberty Safe boycotted. That is not my experience. when i had issues with my safe lock (my code wasnt working), i called liberty and they sent out a safe smith or whatever they are called. The smith tried my code, then called a number and entered a different code, my safe unlocked and we were able to change my code. They sent me mine within a few hours of the request. Did either of you forget your code/didn't change the factory code? Liberty warranty keeps the factory code and will update their records if you change it as long as you update them. That is different from a backdoor code that works regardless of whatever the set code is. |
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Look, if the cops have a warrant, they either provide the code or punch the safe, which obviously destroys it. It’s not like they’re not gonna get in. Whatever agency that was, was either abiding by a policy or trying not to destroy the safe. Assuming the warrant was legitimate, there should be no beef with this. |
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Quoted: Did either of you forget your code/didn't change the factory code? Liberty warranty keeps the factory code and will update their records if you change it as long as you update them. That is different from a backdoor code that works regardless of whatever the set code is. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The major fuckup by Liberty is that they have always denied the existence of backdoor access codes to owners and lock/safesmiths. They straight up said they have no such backdoors, therefore they can't help you if you lost/forgot your code so just call a locksmith and drill it. Now it comes out that a backdoor exists and they hand it over, no questions asked to anyone with a rubber stamped warrant. THAT is what should get Liberty Safe boycotted. That is not my experience. when i had issues with my safe lock (my code wasnt working), i called liberty and they sent out a safe smith or whatever they are called. The smith tried my code, then called a number and entered a different code, my safe unlocked and we were able to change my code. They sent me mine within a few hours of the request. Did either of you forget your code/didn't change the factory code? Liberty warranty keeps the factory code and will update their records if you change it as long as you update them. That is different from a backdoor code that works regardless of whatever the set code is. Nope. The code was changed. They sent me the master code to use when my keypad failed. The last digit of my code wouldn't work. Then they replaced the keypad. |
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Quoted: So, the electronic lock on my safe is an S&G, so presumably this backdoor is built into it by S&G. Is this at the request of Liberty? Or is this a standard “feature” from S&G? How about with replacement locks? Are mechanicals not capable of having a secondary “backdoor” combo? I’ve got a lot of questions now. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They should never have had the code to begin with, or the end user should be given clear instructions and recommendations to change it once installed. This^^^^ I've been thinking of replacing my digital lock with a S&G. This may have just sealed it. Granted, if the fedgov has a warrant they are getting in no matter what, but this situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So, the electronic lock on my safe is an S&G, so presumably this backdoor is built into it by S&G. Is this at the request of Liberty? Or is this a standard “feature” from S&G? How about with replacement locks? Are mechanicals not capable of having a secondary “backdoor” combo? I’ve got a lot of questions now. You're talking about whether or not they can get in your safe with a 15 minute phone call or 15 minutes with an angle grinder. Does it really matter? |
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Quoted: The fact that liberty safes have any kind of secret access codes at all is what is concerning. a lot of digital locks will have a master code that is hard coded into it. The code you enter when you change the code is not the master. Just like a lot of home security systems have a master code that never changes. it allows the professionals to completely reset the system if needed. |
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Quoted: So, the electronic lock on my safe is an S&G, so presumably this backdoor is built into it by S&G. Is this at the request of Liberty? Or is this a standard “feature” from S&G? How about with replacement locks? Are mechanicals not capable of having a secondary “backdoor” combo? I’ve got a lot of questions now. looks like the reset procedure is hard coded in my S&G themselves and not liberty. you can find the master reset procedure on the internet How to reset an S&G digital lock How do I reset my s&g 6120 safe lock? Use the Management Reset Code to Reset my S&G 6120 Lock? The Sargent and Greenleaf Management Reset code (MRC) is a 7 digit code. The 2 numbers in the MRC that are separated by a “/” or are in “[]” have to be entered simultaneously – press both numbers at the same time. Execute the MRC sequence using the following steps: 1. Press * 6 # 2. Now enter the MRC 3. After entering the MRC, press # You will hear 1 beep for each time the MRC has been executed. (If this is the first time that the MRC has been executed, you will hear only 1 beep.) EX: *6# 135 0/1 87 # The Master Code has now been reset to the Factory Default of 123456# Enter the Master Code 123456#, and the lock will open. |
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Quoted: lol, like it doesn't take 7 minutes and a harbor freight angle grinder to get into their Presidential model anyway. They are the Kimber of the Storing black powder in the safe has the potential to make using an angle grinder pretty interesting. |
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Quoted: They should never have had the code to begin with, or the end user should be given clear instructions and recommendations to change it once installed. Yeah that’s kind of where I’m at. Why have a secret back door code? Obviously the feds thought they could lean on Liberty to get easy access. |
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Quoted: Yeah that’s kind of where I’m at. Why have a secret back door code? Obviously the feds thought they could lean on Liberty to get easy access. Quoted: Quoted: They should never have had the code to begin with, or the end user should be given clear instructions and recommendations to change it once installed. Yeah that’s kind of where I’m at. Why have a secret back door code? Obviously the feds thought they could lean on Liberty to get easy access. It's not a secret backdoor code, its a master reset code S&B builds into all of their digital locks |
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Quoted: Because an angle grinder won’t allow access into a cell phone. Not the type of access “they” want. Which makes this much worse for Liberty. They didn’t have to comply and the feds would still get what they want. Apple told them to pound sand in much more dire conditions. Liberty made life easier for fedbois, they should have made it harder. I also wonder if a warrant for an unrelated third party is legitimate legally? Serious question. |
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The issues as I see them. 1. Who was the search warrant directed at? If it was the guy, then Liberty had no obligation to do anything. If it was Liberty, then they did. 2. liberty should not be keeping a database of backdoor codes to customer safes in the first place. |
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Quoted: I'm in the market for a safe. These fucks just eliminated themselves from my consideration. Before you do, hear my Liberty story. I bought my Liberty Presidential in the mid-'90s, before I deployed overseas. I sold my Jeep Scrambler to pay for it. It was top of the line, almost $6K at the time. Almost twenty years later--and with Liberty under new ownership--my house burned down completely. My Liberty was destroyed, along with everything inside (no fire dept. response). Two story home burned to the ground. I of course didn't have my receipt for the safe (it was inside), but the store I had purchased it from was still in business in Sacramento, CA. In their attic (I had bought before computerized records were a thing) they found my purchase record in an old box, dusty but complete. There wasn't a lifetime warranty on Liberty Safes when I bought mine, though there was under the new ownership (of which mine was not covered by). Nevertheless...when I contacted Liberty (I hadn't been aware of the policy differences) they asked for a copy of the incident report from the fire department...and then they replaced my safe. No hemming, hawing, asking a bunch of questions, or explaining that my safe wasn't covered by current policy. ...and they didn't just "replace" my safe: When I bought mine way back when, I had bought their top of the line model. They replaced it with their current top of the line model--not just an "equivalent". Their current TOL model had dehumidifiers, door pockets, LED lighting, jewelry drawers, etc.--all things that my safe didn't have back when I bought it. When the new safe arrived, I called to inform them of what I thought was their error, and to arrange to either return or pay for the extras I had received. Their exact words were "When you bought from us before, you bought our best. We replaced it with our best--no mistake was made. Enjoy your safe!" I had to pay shipping (about $420) and I tipped both of the workers who moved it $100. The new safe sells for almost $10K. In before "residential security container" guys--I know. It's not a true "safe". Regardless--Liberty Safes are OK in my book.   |
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Quoted: Which makes this much worse for Liberty. They didn’t have to comply and the feds would still get what they want. Apple told them to pound sand in much more dire conditions. Liberty made life easier for fedbois, they should have made it harder. I also wonder if a warrant for an unrelated third party is legitimate legally? Serious question. Completely different situation. The feds could not force apple to create a backdoor to breech the phones encryption. The S&G digital locks have a master reset code procedure hard coded into them. the procedure is readily accessible. |
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Quoted: The alternative is to ask someone with the combo on site to open the safe. If they refuse you arrest them for obstruction and open the safe with a grinder or call the locksmith you had on standby when you planned the warrant service. Obstruction..? Remember that pesky 5th amendment thing..? |
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Quoted: This is actually a good question and the answer above is an oversimplification. I would love for someone to give us a better legal answer... Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: People don't think warrants be like it is, but it do. Because an angle grinder won’t allow access into a cell phone. Not the type of access “they” want. This is actually a good question and the answer above is an oversimplification. I would love for someone to give us a better legal answer... Apple doesn’t have your passcode, and the iPhone is encrypted. The legal answer is Apple complied to the fullest extent they could with the feds. Apple gave the feds access to all the unencrypted data and all the encrypted data Apple had the keys for. Apple designed the iPhone, so Apple can’t comply with a warrant to unlock it because Apple doesn’t have the ability to unlock it. The feds were trying to compel Apple to develop tools to bypass an iPhone passcode, which is outside the scope of what a warrant allows. You can write a warrant that says, “give this guy access to search these locations for these things.” You can’t write a warrant that’s a blank check to compel a private entity to devote time and manpower to develop custom tools to allow access to any product the private entity manufactures. |