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Posted: 12/26/2012 4:00:02 PM EDT

[#1]

I read an article a while back that said the opposite, that the interwebs were making people smarter, if anything.

The amount of time the average person spends reading has evidently increased a bunch as well as the amount of do-it-yourselfers. Or so I read.

I believe it. I read ALL night long online about any topic that interests me.

Let's look at this past week:

I read and watched videos on woodworking. Namely old fashioned carpentry tool such as a spoke shave and cabinet scraper. I then read about steaming wood. All of this for a project I am working on.

In doing that I came across the English longbow. Spent a couple of evenings reading all about what they are made of and how. While it is a simple piece of wood there is so much more than that.

For the same project I have been learning about leatherworking and everything that goes into that.

Refreshed on AR manufacturers for a build I want to start.

Followed the Christmas winter storm closely. Looked up several meteorological terms I wasn't familiar with.

Son got a telescope. Spent a light evening reading and learning about the different types of scopes and how to look at what and where in the sky to do it at.

Reviewed tablets last week when deciding which would be best for the Mrs. and her lifestyle.

So, as you can see, these are all things I could have never really done without the internet. Sure, there are libraries. But that is assuming they have what I need and it will almost certainly be one viewpoint, if I don't get bored and lose interest before I can make it there.

If leveraged properly, the internet is one of the most powerful tools in hundreds of years. It is, literally, a world of knowledge at your fingertips.

Oh, I looked at boobies too.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:01:25 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I work in computer networking and security. About 6-7 years ago a cousin of mine, about to graduate high school, told me he wanted to become a professional hacker. He asked me where to start, I suggested he start by learning Perl. He took two seconds to look through the book and asked "Can't I just download a program or something?"

Everybody hates PERL. I agree with the comment though -- people are lazy.

How the hell could anyone hate Perl? Java,VB, now those are things to strongly dislike. I reserve the hate for COBOL.

VB, I agree with you on. Java, not so much -- it's a fairly capable language that powers a lot of things right now.
COBOL I have, thank goodness, never had to touch.

PERL is needlessly complex and as far as I can tell offers nothing that other languages do not.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:06:06 PM EDT

[#3]

So , will a collection of FB duck faces be worth as much as a Salvadore Dali or Pierre Renoir when I get older???

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:08:50 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree.

Never before in human history have we had this much information available and understandable to this many people.

Sounds like the 75-year-old has fallen into the general trap that old folks tend to fall into - that of thinking that their generation and those that came before them are the only good generations and all the "kids" are "ruining it."

But the guy's point is about creativity and the development of practical skills. The fact that information is widely available doesn't automatically promote either of those..

I disagree wholeheartedly.

That information is everywhere, being seen by many, and many are thinking: "Hmm, I bet I could make that better" or "Hmm, what happens if I did this instead of that" etc etc. That much information is inspirational to the creative.

That's purely speculation.

Voluminous amounts of information may be "inspirational" to *some* people, but a much safer bet is that for the vast majority of people it simply means that there's a greater opportunity to get questions answered more quickly and easily - without any real effort on their part.

What do you have to offer - besides pure speculation - that the internet has sunk creativity levels?

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:08:54 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The internet has taught me to reload ammunition, build an ar-15, build a savage precision rifle, cook numerous dishes, brew beer, harden and temper steel, build a computer, etc, etc.

Suffice it to say I disagree.

Do you have that knowledge on your wall, or do you need to go to the internet every time you have to check something?

Well, I have reloading manuals and logs, shooting logs, cook books, brewing logs, notes on heat treatment, etc. Some things I remember, some things I've written down, and somethings I look up on the internet. There's no fundamental difference between looking something up on page 46 of your Speer manual and looking something up on the Speer website.

I'm sure the old timer, "It was better back then types" will be along shortly to point out that they remember the trim length for the chamber on their custom .220 swift and can recall the temperature/velocity variation of a particular load while walking to the target line, in the snow, uphill, both ways.

Good. So when the internet does down for whatever reason, you will still have the data you need.

Putting your faith in technology can be a dull double edged sword.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:11:58 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Yes and no...

Losing practical skills and traditional crafts yes.

But.

Those are being replaced by the new skills. If you can program... you are like a blacksmith of old. You can get an idea and just make it... and then sell it. That is making something... just not "with your hands." If you've got the idea and the skill then you can make millions.

Modern technology is not made by hand. Even older tech ... like furniture isn't made mostly by hand anymore. Everything is cut... shaped... put together to some extent... by computer controlled robots. The future for inventors is in writing the code that runs those robots and in making the designs that get fed into them.

Modern tech is made working at scales so small you can't do it by hand. CPUs are made by depositing layers a few atoms thick at a time. The layout of it gets designed on a computer and then given to the manufacturing computers to create.

So to him I say... You're wrong. You just don't understand how things are made now.

Sure we are more high tech, but what is the percentage of the population that is involved in the production of that high tech?

Sadly, the vast bulk of people are mindless consumers, and getting dumber every year. We are losing our critical thinking skills.

That's a very accurate assessment IMHO. I see it even here, where people are frequently too lazy to google for the answer to a very simple question. lmgtfy is a wonderful resource...

I assure you there where inept and dull people before the internet. There were also lazy ones, but I would argue we encourage that these days not with the internet, but by incentivizing laziness.

There are more of them. Ask me how I know.......

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:13:39 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Yes and no...

Losing practical skills and traditional crafts yes.

But.

Those are being replaced by the new skills. If you can program... you are like a blacksmith of old. You can get an idea and just make it... and then sell it. That is making something... just not "with your hands." If you've got the idea and the skill then you can make millions.

Modern technology is not made by hand. Even older tech ... like furniture isn't made mostly by hand anymore. Everything is cut... shaped... put together to some extent... by computer controlled robots. The future for inventors is in writing the code that runs those robots and in making the designs that get fed into them.

Modern tech is made working at scales so small you can't do it by hand. CPUs are made by depositing layers a few atoms thick at a time. The layout of it gets designed on a computer and then given to the manufacturing computers to create.

So to him I say... You're wrong. You just don't understand how things are made now.

Sure we are more high tech, but what is the percentage of the population that is involved in the production of that high tech?

Sadly, the vast bulk of people are mindless consumers, and getting dumber every year. We are losing our critical thinking skills.

The progression of technology works to free people from work and give them time for thought. Now a percent will choose not to think... but that is not the fault of the technology.

Humans with no Tech... hunter gathers who didn't have time to think and invent.

Humans with farming... a smaller percent of the people feed the rest so they can think and invent more stuff.

... and so on

The higher tech we get the less people are needed to do mindless repetitive tasks. Then they can choose to do the mindless thing or choose to better themselves.

The internet and other such technology are not the cause of what you or the guy in the article are complaining about any more than guns cause violence.

I agree completely. The issue here is humanity and the ever increasing crop of low hanging fruit.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:14:08 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The internet has taught me to reload ammunition, build an ar-15, build a savage precision rifle, cook numerous dishes, brew beer, harden and temper steel, build a computer, etc, etc.

Suffice it to say I disagree.

Do you have that knowledge on your wall, or do you need to go to the internet every time you have to check something?

Well, I have reloading manuals and logs, shooting logs, cook books, brewing logs, notes on heat treatment, etc. Some things I remember, some things I've written down, and somethings I look up on the internet. There's no fundamental difference between looking something up on page 46 of your Speer manual and looking something up on the Speer website.

I'm sure the old timer, "It was better back then types" will be along shortly to point out that they remember the trim length for the chamber on their custom .220 swift and can recall the temperature/velocity variation of a particular load while walking to the target line, in the snow, uphill, both ways.

Good. So when the internet does down for whatever reason, you will still have the data you need.

Putting your faith in technology can be a dull double edged sword.

Did you know that you can download wikipedia? Not that wikipedia is the be-all and end-all of all information, but it's got a lot of good info in it, and you can download it and maintain it offline. kind of a pain in the ass though.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:15:28 PM EDT

[#9]

Yes because trying out 3D prototypes to see if they work before you waste time and resources will never lead to inventing anything. Or running simulations etc.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:23:17 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I read an article a while back that said the opposite, that the interwebs were making people smarter, if anything.

The amount of time the average person spends reading has evidently increased a bunch as well as the amount of do-it-yourselfers. Or so I read.

I believe it. I read ALL night long online about any topic that interests me.

You're old enough that you use the internet as a tool to further your own interests and hobbies. Kids today, the internet IS their interest and hobby.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:25:48 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Hey Mr. Inventor, how good are you at slinging code?

Mmm hmm.

Yeah. This is a generation of humans who have, at their fingertips, ALL THE INFORMATION EVER ATTAINED BY MANKIND. Yes, the majority slide into mediocrity, as has been the case in every generation. Those who choose to take advantage of it, have the potential to advance technology and invention exponentially as has been happening for many years.

Old dude is out of the loop. Not really his fault.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:33:19 PM EDT

[#12]

Actually I will throw this out. The industrial revolution changed the way people interacted with each other and changed how someone could change their own position in society. It made it easier for the "rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer" but also for the first time a broke kid from the wrong side of the tracks could become middle class.

The internet revolution saw those kids go from the wrong side of the tracks to the nicest house in town. Now that we are fully within the internet age I think you will go back to seeing the smart get smarter and the dumb get dumber. And those getting smarter will get richer.

FWIW my grandmother retired from the public library system. I was a library rat. Kids were getting dumb well before the internet.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:40:31 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I work in computer networking and security. About 6-7 years ago a cousin of mine, about to graduate high school, told me he wanted to become a professional hacker. He asked me where to start, I suggested he start by learning Perl. He took two seconds to look through the book and asked "Can't I just download a program or something?"

Everybody hates PERL. I agree with the comment though -- people are lazy.

How the hell could anyone hate Perl? Java,VB, now those are things to strongly dislike. I reserve the hate for COBOL.

VB, I agree with you on. Java, not so much -- it's a fairly capable language that powers a lot of things right now.

COBOL I have, thank goodness, never had to touch.

PERL is needlessly complex and as far as I can tell offers nothing that other languages do not.

Perl is as simple or as complex as you want. The perl modules make it fast and efficient as needed. If you have done C++ before Perl is very intuitive, most of the time if you need to do something you can guess and get close.

I f'n hate Java, always have, always will. OOB is great if you need it, but I strongly dislike being forced to use it. I know some people swear by it, I guess I just have not done enough serious coding in it.

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:41:00 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I donno about that, never before has so much information been at your finger tips.

And instead they are using it for pr0n, Twitter and Facebook.

THANK GOD the internet wasn't available when I was a kid. I would have had a serious case of tennis elbow and probably arrested for blowing a LOT of shit.

you mean blowing up? orr.....

Posted: 12/26/2012 4:49:33 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I donno about that, never before has so much information been at your finger tips.

And instead they are using it for pr0n, Twitter and Facebook.

THANK GOD the internet wasn't available when I was a kid. I would have had a serious case of tennis elbow and probably arrested for blowing a LOT of shit.

you mean blowing up? orr.....

I think he's referring to the Cragslist personals section on both counts.

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:33:55 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I donno about that, never before has so much information been at your finger tips.

And instead they are using it for pr0n, Twitter and Facebook.

THANK GOD the internet wasn't available when I was a kid. I would have had a serious case of tennis elbow and probably arrested for blowing a LOT of shit.

you mean blowing up? orr.....

I think he's referring to the Cragslist personals section on both counts.

Nah, just *stuff*. Trees, etc.

The f'd part is my grandmother, the librarian, reserved the "Anarchist Cookbook" for me back when it was cool.

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:50:29 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Trevor Baylis, who invented the wind-up radio, said children are losing creativity and practical skills

Whoa - Looks like they're bringing out the heavy-hitters...

Posted: 12/26/2012 5:53:51 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I read an article a while back that said the opposite, that the interwebs were making people smarter, if anything.

The amount of time the average person spends reading has evidently increased a bunch as well as the amount of do-it-yourselfers. Or so I read.

I believe it. I read ALL night long online about any topic that interests me.

You're old enough that you use the internet as a tool to further your own interests and hobbies. Kids today, the internet IS their interest and hobby.

This is the problem. They are so busy clicking the next link to the next page that they don't use that wealth of info for anything. They stare at a screen instead of going to hunt, fish, build something, break something etc etc.

A lot of people my age can't do basic car maintenance, hang a door, build or repair anything and common sense is no longer common. Even hanging out with idiot friends has been replaced by 683 imaginary "friends" on an internet chat site.

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:01:01 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
The internet has taught me to reload ammunition, build an ar-15, build a savage precision rifle, cook numerous dishes, brew beer, harden and temper steel, build a computer, etc, etc.

Suffice it to say I disagree.

The Internet, used to learn skills, is a great tool that fosters creativity. If Google or Youtube helps teach a kid how to solder, or build a R/C airplane, or choose tackle for a fishing trip, those are not bad things. The Internet can do as much to create and foster curiosity and learning of the hands-on variety as it can to stifle it. It simply has to be used for that purpose. If a kid just uses the Internet to look at Facebook and download music and porn, and that displaces other activities, then it's a problem. Using it to enhance and build skills is not.

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:02:50 PM EDT

[#20]

"One of Britain's leading inventors has warned that a 'Google generation' who rely on the internet for everything are in danger of becoming 'brain-dead'.

I'm 50 and it's left me brain dead

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:05:45 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Hey Mr. Inventor, how good are you at slinging code?

Mmm hmm.

You might be surprised. But really, there are so many people who can 'sling code' but cannot change their own damn flat tire that this really isn't funny.

You can't eat code. It won't get your car started, or fix your flat tire, purify drinking water, keep you warm, or stop bleeding.

We have more people now than ever that are just plain useless people when not parked in a cubicle and set to a specific task. The guy is right, and it's a serious problem.

Far too many times I've found myself with a bunch of supposedly brilliant engineers who can't solve a simple freaking problem of the sort that used to be, literally, child's play.

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:16:53 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I read an article a while back that said the opposite, that the interwebs were making people smarter, if anything.

The amount of time the average person spends reading has evidently increased a bunch as well as the amount of do-it-yourselfers. Or so I read.

I believe it. I read ALL night long online about any topic that interests me.

You're old enough that you use the internet as a tool to further your own interests and hobbies. Kids today, the internet IS their interest and hobby.

This is the problem. They are so busy clicking the next link to the next page that they don't use that wealth of info for anything. They stare at a screen instead of going to hunt, fish, build something, break something etc etc.

A lot of people my age can't do basic car maintenance, hang a door, build or repair anything and common sense is no longer common. Even hanging out with idiot friends has been replaced by 683 imaginary "friends" on an internet chat site.

So, you really aren't my friend?

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:40:06 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree.

Never before in human history have we had this much information available and understandable to this many people.

Sounds like the 75-year-old has fallen into the general trap that old folks tend to fall into - that of thinking that their generation and those that came before them are the only good generations and all the "kids" are "ruining it."

But the guy's point is about creativity and the development of practical skills. The fact that information is widely available doesn't automatically promote either of those.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

That information is everywhere, being seen by many, and many are thinking: "Hmm, I bet I could make that better" or "Hmm, what happens if I did this instead of that" etc etc. That much information is inspirational to the creative.

That's purely speculation.

Voluminous amounts of information may be "inspirational" to *some* people, but a much safer bet is that for the vast majority of people it simply means that there's a greater opportunity to get questions answered more quickly and easily - without any real effort on their part.

What do you have to offer - besides pure speculation - that the internet has sunk creativity levels?

My original point was that the availability of information doesn't automatically promote creativity or the development of practical skills - because it doesn't. Similarly, the wide-spread availability of information isn't a universal catalyst for "inspiration".

Beyond that, as far as the internet in general goes, sure, there's plenty of *opportunity* for people to get better at a hobby, or learn something new, or whatever. And if that's considered "creativity", then that's fine.

But just take a look around ... out of all of your friends, family, coworkers, and everyone else who you know, what percentage of those people are truly inspired and in the process of creating something really unique, or even revolutionary? Now, compare that number to the number of people who you know, who - having access to all the information - do little more than post on FB that they just got done giving the dog a bath ...

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:43:36 PM EDT

[#24]

It's not just the Internet, more blame should go to their parents.

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:43:58 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Hey Mr. Inventor, how good are you at slinging code?

Mmm hmm.

You might be surprised. But really, there are so many people who can 'sling code' but cannot change their own damn flat tire that this really isn't funny...

I think the "tire change" reference might be goin' for a ride on the longevity train ...

Posted: 12/26/2012 6:45:26 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I work in computer networking and security. About 6-7 years ago a cousin of mine, about to graduate high school, told me he wanted to become a professional hacker. He asked me where to start, I suggested he start by learning Perl. He took two seconds to look through the book and asked "Can't I just download a program or something?"

Everybody hates PERL. I agree with the comment though -- people are lazy.

How the hell could anyone hate Perl? Java,VB, now those are things to strongly dislike. I reserve the hate for COBOL.

Scheme IS the devil.

>(+ 1 2)

3

Looks all nice and neat. Now imagine thousands of operations embedded within another. That's scheme. Following its logic hurts.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:01:19 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

What do you have to offer - besides pure speculation - that the internet has sunk creativity levels?

No one here has anything but speculation, and if they're too lazy to google it and do some research, they're definitely not going to work the problem from the ground up on their own by conducting a study.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:02:11 PM EDT

[#28]

I think hes wrong. Kids who are prone to learning have a plethora of tools out there to do what ever they want. Want to learn rockets - youtube it - goto a rocket forum. Find a maker space and go at it. I am constantly surprised by some peoples ideas they post up on the web. A kid who was making 1:1 working replicas of guns out of paper comes to mind.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:03:32 PM EDT

[#29]

there's no reason for them to remember anything since they can google it from their cellphones

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:06:57 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hey Mr. Inventor, how good are you at slinging code?

Mmm hmm.

Good point.

He has a point too though -- instead of learning how to solve problems, today's generation simply jumps on google and finds out how somebody else did it. That's not a bad thing at all -- but what is bad is that then they never gain the skill of figuring it out themselves.

I grew up in pretty much the same generation you did, IIRC, so we probably have some of the same experiences -- we learned how to "do" computers back when Google didn't exist, we had to "figure it out" for ourselves, so we've got that troubleshooting background that many of today's computer nerds don't have, and I would venture to say *most* of today's kids don't have.

A fair point.

Not really.

I'm not going to spend all day learning how to 'do' a valve cover gasket change when I can google up a walkthrough.

The sum of human knowledge is available at my fingertips, and it allows me to get the easy stuff out of the way and frees up time to learn the new stuff.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:17:44 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hey Mr. Inventor, how good are you at slinging code?

Mmm hmm.

Good point.

He has a point too though -- instead of learning how to solve problems, today's generation simply jumps on google and finds out how somebody else did it. That's not a bad thing at all -- but what is bad is that then they never gain the skill of figuring it out themselves.

I grew up in pretty much the same generation you did, IIRC, so we probably have some of the same experiences -- we learned how to "do" computers back when Google didn't exist, we had to "figure it out" for ourselves, so we've got that troubleshooting background that many of today's computer nerds don't have, and I would venture to say *most* of today's kids don't have.

A fair point.

Not really.

I'm not going to spend all day learning how to 'do' a valve cover gasket change when I can google up a walkthrough.

The sum of human knowledge is available at my fingertips, and it allows me to get the easy stuff out of the way and frees up time to learn the new stuff.

Most of the modern generation (the one he's talking about), don't even know that the possibility of doing a "valve cover gasket change" exists, because they don't think about things that way.

The car's maintenance light came on, therefore I take it to someone to fix -- there's no reason, in their minds, to actually figure out how to fix it.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:28:15 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hey Mr. Inventor, how good are you at slinging code?

Mmm hmm.

Good point.

He has a point too though -- instead of learning how to solve problems, today's generation simply jumps on google and finds out how somebody else did it. That's not a bad thing at all -- but what is bad is that then they never gain the skill of figuring it out themselves.

I grew up in pretty much the same generation you did, IIRC, so we probably have some of the same experiences -- we learned how to "do" computers back when Google didn't exist, we had to "figure it out" for ourselves, so we've got that troubleshooting background that many of today's computer nerds don't have, and I would venture to say *most* of today's kids don't have.

A fair point.

Not really.

I'm not going to spend all day learning how to 'do' a valve cover gasket change when I can google up a walkthrough.

The sum of human knowledge is available at my fingertips, and it allows me to get the easy stuff out of the way and frees up time to learn the new stuff.

Most of the modern generation (the one he's talking about), don't even know that the possibility of doing a "valve cover gasket change" exists, because they don't think about things that way.

The car's maintenance light came on, therefore I take it to someone to fix -- there's no reason, in their minds, to actually figure out how to fix it.

That's been the case for decades. The Internet didn't spawn auto shops, to my knowledge.

My point goes beyond the gasket change I need to do.

Posted: 12/26/2012 7:36:25 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hey Mr. Inventor, how good are you at slinging code?

Mmm hmm.

Good point.

He has a point too though -- instead of learning how to solve problems, today's generation simply jumps on google and finds out how somebody else did it. That's not a bad thing at all -- but what is bad is that then they never gain the skill of figuring it out themselves.

I grew up in pretty much the same generation you did, IIRC, so we probably have some of the same experiences -- we learned how to "do" computers back when Google didn't exist, we had to "figure it out" for ourselves, so we've got that troubleshooting background that many of today's computer nerds don't have, and I would venture to say *most* of today's kids don't have.

A fair point.

Not really.

I'm not going to spend all day learning how to 'do' a valve cover gasket change when I can google up a walkthrough.

The sum of human knowledge is available at my fingertips, and it allows me to get the easy stuff out of the way and frees up time to learn the new stuff.

Most of the modern generation (the one he's talking about), don't even know that the possibility of doing a "valve cover gasket change" exists, because they don't think about things that way.

The car's maintenance light came on, therefore I take it to someone to fix -- there's no reason, in their minds, to actually figure out how to fix it.

That's been the case for decades. The Internet didn't spawn auto shops, to my knowledge.

My point goes beyond the gasket change I need to do.

my point was not that auto shops exist.

Posted: 12/26/2012 11:26:56 PM EDT

[#34]

I firmly believe that the internet spawns rapid advancement.

Case in point. On the internet, one can quickly learn about things that
haven't even made it into print yet. The cutting edge doesn't exist in
books. One can easily form relationships, world wide, with people that
share a fascination with a particular obscure topic.

Two years ago, I cut the satellite TV and decided to learn something
that genuinely interested me. By spending an honest hour a day, I
started taking the time to understand complex principles. Sometimes I
had to read the same information ten times before understanding it. I
could use resources like Wikipedia to print out charts, diagrams, and
visualizations of topics and post them on the walls around to inspire
constant reflection. After about a year of this, I was able to take a
hobby from knowing almost nothing, to competeing directly with top
universities and companies worldwide in advanced robotics.

This would never have happened had it not been for the internet. I
constantly came across new topics that I had to fully understand to
advance. If I had to look up everything in a conventional library, it
would have taken years. With the internet, I can find concepts
explained 10 different ways. If I still don't understand something, I
can directly email the author of the definitive research paper on the
topic for clarification. I have found that the true experts are
actually flattered that someone else is as deeply interested in a
particular topic as they are and will literally bend over backwards to
help you.

None of this could happen with out the internet.

The author is wrong.

Posted: 12/26/2012 11:35:53 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
I firmly believe that the internet spawns rapid advancement.

Case in point. On the internet, one can quickly learn about things that haven't even made it into print yet. The cutting edge doesn't exist in books. One can easily form relationships, world wide, with people that share a fascination with a particular obscure topic.

Two years ago, I cut the satellite TV and decided to learn something that genuinely interested me. By spending an honest hour a day, I started taking the time to understand complex principles. Sometimes I had to read the same information ten times before understanding it. I could use resources like Wikipedia to print out charts, diagrams, and visualizations of topics and post them on the walls around to inspire constant reflection. After about a year of this, I was able to take a hobby from knowing almost nothing, to competeing directly with top universities and companies worldwide in advanced robotics.

This would never have happened had it not been for the internet. I constantly came across new topics that I had to fully understand to advance. If I had to look up everything in a conventional library, it would have taken years. With the internet, I can find concepts explained 10 different ways. If I still don't understand something, I can directly email the author of the definitive research paper on the topic for clarification. I have found that the true experts are actually flattered that someone else is as deeply interested in a particular topic as they are and will literally bend over backwards to help you.

None of this could happen with out the internet.

The author is wrong.

Your story is atypical of the normal internet using child.

I'm curious, what is your robotics project if you're willing to share? The internet is an awesome enabler for those who have the will and the desire to learn, as you obviously do. Without that will and desire, it doesn't help that much.

I firmly believe the internet is one of the most amazing things to have ever been invented, the amount of knowledge available is beyond most people's comprehension, and the ability to communicate all over the world is another enabler. The internet itself is not the problem, it's a general lack of critical thinking skills that is exacerbated by the fact that one can simply regurgitate things read on the internet as fact without having to put any time or effort into actually learning a subject.

Posted: 12/26/2012 11:43:50 PM EDT

[#36]

Before the Intarwebz, people were smart.

Posted: 12/26/2012 11:52:35 PM EDT

[#37]

I bet the person who dreamed up the internet didn't think at the time that its primary function in the year 2012 would be a source to view some dude with a 9 inch schlong nutting all over some chick's face.

Posted: 12/27/2012 9:12:11 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I firmly believe that the internet spawns rapid advancement.

Case in point. On the internet, one can quickly learn about things that haven't even made it into print yet. The cutting edge doesn't exist in books. One can easily form relationships, world wide, with people that share a fascination with a particular obscure topic.

Two years ago, I cut the satellite TV and decided to learn something that genuinely interested me. By spending an honest hour a day, I started taking the time to understand complex principles. Sometimes I had to read the same information ten times before understanding it. I could use resources like Wikipedia to print out charts, diagrams, and visualizations of topics and post them on the walls around to inspire constant reflection. After about a year of this, I was able to take a hobby from knowing almost nothing, to competeing directly with top universities and companies worldwide in advanced robotics.

This would never have happened had it not been for the internet. I constantly came across new topics that I had to fully understand to advance. If I had to look up everything in a conventional library, it would have taken years. With the internet, I can find concepts explained 10 different ways. If I still don't understand something, I can directly email the author of the definitive research paper on the topic for clarification. I have found that the true experts are actually flattered that someone else is as deeply interested in a particular topic as they are and will literally bend over backwards to help you.

None of this could happen with out the internet.

The author is wrong.

Your story is atypical of the normal internet using child.

I'm curious, what is your robotics project if you're willing to share? The internet is an awesome enabler for those who have the will and the desire to learn, as you obviously do. Without that will and desire, it doesn't help that much.

I firmly believe the internet is one of the most amazing things to have ever been invented, the amount of knowledge available is beyond most people's comprehension, and the ability to communicate all over the world is another enabler. The internet itself is not the problem, it's a general lack of critical thinking skills that is exacerbated by the fact that one can simply regurgitate things read on the internet as fact without having to put any time or effort into actually learning a subject.

It started here.

http://www.uavforge.net/

Posted: 12/27/2012 7:23:53 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
The internet has taught me to reload ammunition, build an ar-15, build a savage precision rifle, cook numerous dishes, brew beer, harden and temper steel, build a computer, etc, etc.

Suffice it to say I disagree.

But, what have you invented from information on the internet? THAT is the question. Mimicry is a skill only a few species of animals have, so at least you have that going for you.

Posted: 12/27/2012 7:34:44 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hey Mr. Inventor, how good are you at slinging code?

Mmm hmm.

Good point.

He has a point too though -- instead of learning how to solve problems, today's generation simply jumps on google and finds out how somebody else did it. That's not a bad thing at all -- but what is bad is that then they never gain the skill of figuring it out themselves.

I grew up in pretty much the same generation you did, IIRC, so we probably have some of the same experiences -- we learned how to "do" computers back when Google didn't exist, we had to "figure it out" for ourselves, so we've got that troubleshooting background that many of today's computer nerds don't have, and I would venture to say *most* of today's kids don't have.

A fair point.

Not really.

I'm not going to spend all day learning how to 'do' a valve cover gasket change when I can google up a walkthrough.

The sum of human knowledge is available at my fingertips, and it allows me to get the easy stuff out of the way and frees up time to learn the new stuff.

Most of the modern generation (the one he's talking about), don't even know that the possibility of doing a "valve cover gasket change" exists, because they don't think about things that way.

The car's maintenance light came on, therefore I take it to someone to fix -- there's no reason, in their minds, to actually figure out how to fix it.

On the other hand:
Is it worth the programmer's time to learn how to do all that work just to change his own valve cover gasket? As a (hopefully) highly-paid software engineer, his time is valuable. He likely makes more money than the mechanic, so it wouldn't be economical to spend a long time figuring out how to do said job unless he just wanted to know for the fun of it.

Just a thought.

Quoted:
I try to counter it by getting the boy to connect the two. His favorite game is minecraft

In the shop, we have made, from scratch, using scrap metal and a bandsaw( okay I used some old broken hickory handles, but they still had to be reshaped

),

A pickaxe, a two bladed battleaxe, an adze?, we cut a small oak and he shaped with a drawknife a bow, and rehandled a 3/4 axe I used for fleshing hides. Now he has replicated his favorite Minecraft tools in real life.

I think we'll be making a sword soon......

Gotta work at it.

We'll all be more impressed when he makes a virtual 16-bit ALU in Minecraft.

Posted: 12/27/2012 7:37:33 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hey Mr. Inventor, how good are you at slinging code?

Mmm hmm.

Good point.

He has a point too though -- instead of learning how to solve problems, today's generation simply jumps on google and finds out how somebody else did it. That's not a bad thing at all -- but what is bad is that then they never gain the skill of figuring it out themselves.

I grew up in pretty much the same generation you did, IIRC, so we probably have some of the same experiences -- we learned how to "do" computers back when Google didn't exist, we had to "figure it out" for ourselves, so we've got that troubleshooting background that many of today's computer nerds don't have, and I would venture to say *most* of today's kids don't have.

A fair point.

Not really.

I'm not going to spend all day learning how to 'do' a valve cover gasket change when I can google up a walkthrough.

The sum of human knowledge is available at my fingertips, and it allows me to get the easy stuff out of the way and frees up time to learn the new stuff.

Most of the modern generation (the one he's talking about), don't even know that the possibility of doing a "valve cover gasket change" exists, because they don't think about things that way.

The car's maintenance light came on, therefore I take it to someone to fix -- there's no reason, in their minds, to actually figure out how to fix it.

On the other hand:
Is it worth the programmer's time to learn how to do all that work just to change his own valve cover gasket? As a (hopefully) highly-paid software engineer, his time is valuable. He likely makes more money than the mechanic, so it wouldn't be economical to spend a long time figuring out how to do said job unless he just wanted to know for the fun of it.

Just a thought.

Quoted:
I try to counter it by getting the boy to connect the two. His favorite game is minecraft

In the shop, we have made, from scratch, using scrap metal and a bandsaw( okay I used some old broken hickory handles, but they still had to be reshaped

),

A pickaxe, a two bladed battleaxe, an adze?, we cut a small oak and he shaped with a drawknife a bow, and rehandled a 3/4 axe I used for fleshing hides. Now he has replicated his favorite Minecraft tools in real life.

I think we'll be making a sword soon......

Gotta work at it.

We'll all be more impressed when he makes a virtual 16-bit ALU in Minecraft.

That's a fair question, but most people don't even understand how to have that discussion.

Posted: 12/27/2012 7:59:27 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

I bet the person who dreamed up the internet didn't think at the time that its primary function in the year 2012 would be a source to view some dude with a 9 inch schlong nutting all over some chick's face IN HD.

You're right. They couldn't even imagine the heights to which their invention would reach.

Posted: 12/27/2012 8:01:46 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
As someone of the Internet generation, I kind of agree. Most kids these days do have a lack of imagination once they get hooked up.

I'll openly admit I am an information addict and spend too much time online reading and it irritates the hell out of the Missus.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Inventor: The internet is leaving children brain-dead (Page 2 of 2)

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