What exactly is the "missing link theory?"

And Santa Claus believes in the Easter Bunny.
[;)]

A RAbbi and another elderly gentleman ( a college prof who taught evolution) were traveling with their grandkids on a recent flight to Israel. The Rabbis grandkids were loving and attentive to their grandpa and defered to him and showed him great respect..the other gentlemans grandkids were disrespectfull terrors, rude, dissobediant, arrogant and disrespectul of their granddad. The older man asked of the Rabii how it was that his grandkids were so good..The Rabbi explained that according to evolution man was descended from the Apes and so in each succeding generation became "better" as they were further away from the progenators...the apes
But the Rabbi said that in his belief man was created by God and each succeding generation was farther away from God and the older generation was that much closer..his grandkids revered him for his closeness to their creator
It takes much more "faith" to believe in the randomness of the diversity of successful creatures and life being created by God than ever the accidental big bang and life evolving from amino acids struck by lightening..life came from other planets? stalls off the question from where did life arrise on them?

First off, you're making the same mistake that a few other people have made over and over in this and other threads: evolution DOES NOT EQUAL ATHEISM. If there is a creator God, he used evolution to make life as he wanted it. It's that simple.  
Second, evolution says NOTHING about how life began...that's a totally separate set of theories.  No one knows how life began. If you want to say that God created the first life and set it on the course to evolving, I sure won't argue with you---you might be right.  
But however life got here, it got from then to now via evolution, whether it was random or guided by some divine hand.
There is too much evidence for anything else to be correct.

A good dentist - Christian or not will tell you that... [:D]

[sniper]
The Sniper

You should check the facts becasue the fact is that evolution is still considered a theory by scientists but taught in public schools as scientific fact.  Yet Darwin himself admitted that he never meant for anyone to take his [b]theory[/b] and teach it as fact.

If you do the research, you will find that scientific data supports creation overwhelmingly over evolution.

'Course if you want to believe that you and yours descended from monkeys - well..... [:D]

[sniper]
The Sniper

M4, I didn't read the evolution articles since I don't know much about it.

I read the Atheist ethics articles.I read 8 articles on that site and they were as weak as most theistic arguments I've heard. None of those articles answered my questions. Some of them even admit that they had as much ground as a theist who has none. I'll read the rest to see if they're any good.
I just finished reading the atheistic condemnation of rape article and they gave no grounds for condemnation. Only said that neither could theists, so they're even.

RikWriter-the "missing link" theory relates to evolution, and sciences contention that man evolved from apes.  THERE IS NO PROOF!  Just the "faith" that religion and Creationism is not the answer, and evolution is.  Once again, there is no way to prove either Creationism or Evolution in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt.  Believe in what works for you, and have fun dealing the consequences.

C-14 is produced in the upper atmosphere in interactions between nitrogen, carbon, and cosmic radiation.  This keeps the level of atmospheric C-14 constant.  This C-14 is ingested by plants and animals while they live, giving living organisms the same C-14 to C-12 ratio as the atmosphere.  When the organism dies, it no longer ingests carbon from the atmosphere and the ratio of C-14 to C-12 changes.  Fluctuations in the C-14 to C-12 ratio in the atmosphere can be compensated for in the last 10,000 years (past Usher's date for creation BTW) by examining tree ring records to get date information and using the C-14 to C-12 ratio of that tree ring to get a value for the atmospheric carbon ratio at that point in time.

No, what you need to do is learn the scientific definition of the word "theory."  A theory doesn't become a fact...ever.  A theory is an explanation of the facts.  That evolution happens is a fact, it is HOW it happens that is the subject of various theories.  Just as gravity is a fact, but HOW gravity happens is the subject of a few theories.



Please show me a cite for that. I doubt it's accurate as Darwin would know the difference between a theory and a fact, even if a creationist would not.



I did the research. You're wrong.  The overwhelming scientific evidence supports evolution. There is very nearly no scientific support for creationism.  All "creation scientists" can seem to do is point out any weakness they can find in the current theories of evolution...they can't seem to find any facts to back up their "theory" (it isn't really) of creation.



Only a moron would believe that they descended from monkeys.  I descended from anthropoid ancestors that branched out from the line of monkeys quite a few million years back. Of course anyone that knew anything about evolutionary biology would know that. Which is apparently why you didn't.

Of course there isn't, since man didn't evolve from apes.  Man IS a species of ape and all the species of apes alive today evolved from ape-like ancestors.  There is no "missing link" theory however, and the fact you would phrase it that way shows me exactly how little you have studied the subject.



Ah, another grievous error on your part.  Evolution and religion are not mutually exclusive.  Creation and evolution are. So are literal biblical creationism and good sense.



A court of law once let OJ Simpson go free. Are you sure that's the standard of proof you want to use?



You mean consequences like accepting reality? I like that consequence.

I will first say that I believe in God.  But just that doesn't cut it.  Believing that Jesus Christ is savior is necessary to enter heaven.  How "good" you are has nothing to do with it.  Call me intolerant or whatever you want.  I'm right and unfortunately you're wrong.  Whether you chose to listen to me or not, doesn't matter because we will all get to learn the "truth" when we die.  I am also saddened by you that make jokes about this.  Unfortunately as much as I would like to, I cannot change your mind.  However it is your choice, and I will not try to make it for you.  When you get to look God in the face and he asks you why you rejected his Son and the gift of eternal life in heaven, just remember the time that you read this post and laughed.
M18A1 Claymore

RikWriter-you now claim that the missing link theory I was taught in school does not exist, and yet you contend that Man is a species of ape.  Where is the proof of that?  Several skeletons have been found, the earliest of which has been named Lucy.  There is no proof that Homo Sapiens Sapiens is a direct decendant of her.  There is a skeletal "gap", if you will, somewhere between Homo Erectus and Homo Sapians.  The missing link is in there.
I will grant you the point that Evolution and religion are not mutually exclusive; however, everyone is free to do the research for themselves and see where their faith is best placed.
As far as taking it to court, if a jury can find OJ innocent when the prosecution has so screwed up their case, sure.  Any time.  Because no matter who gets on the stand, be it scientist or preacher, neither one can show proof, only tell what they believe to be the truth.  Isn't that the definition of faith?
As far as reality, it is what you make it to be.  Once again, just be willing to deal with the consequences of the reality you create for yourself.

BROKE THE CENTURY MARK WITH THAT LAST ONE!!!!!!
[beer]

It's in the genes, baby.



No, that is inaccurate.  We don't know the exact route that human-like anthropoids used to come to modern humans, but that doesn't mean the link is "missing" it just means we don't know which one it is.  If you came to a crossroads and didn't know which route was correct would you say the road was "missing?"

You can look at all of the gene information, and go, yeah, that is close, but you still cannot prove it in a court of law.  If you cannot find a road where you think one is, yes, it is missing.
I return to my original statement-neither side can prove its case.  The followers of each are taking the teachings of their chosen path and putting their faith in it.
Choose your path, and put your faith in it.

What is it with you and this court of law business? The justice system doesn't have anything to do with science. In fact, juries who are basically scientifically illiterate make judgements based on pure pseudoscience CONSTANTLY.



No, you twisted my words. It isn't that the road isn't there, it's that there are multiple roads and we don't know which one to take. Ergo, it is not missing.

Rik et al.  I suggest you see Dr. Dino's (aka Dr. Ken Hovind )tape number 5 where he clearly demonstrates the evolution is the basis for Communism, Socialism and the coming world government.  If there is no God then our rights come only from man.  If man gave them, he can take them away.  If God gave them, then only He can take them away.  By the way, there is also the Creation Research Institute in California,  staffed by scientific creationists. It wouldn't hurt to listen and find out maybe you have been indoctrinated and not educated.  "There is not one of our 4 million fossils that supports evolutionary theory" THE BRITISH ROYAL MUSEUM

 HEY GUYS!!  I HATE TO POINT THIS OUT TO YOU BUT WE ARE ALREADY HERE! wHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE HOW THE ALMIGHTY DID IT??  If you choose to be an atheist or a deist, so be it.  There is about as much 'evidence' for evolution as there is for the Easter bunny.  If evolution exists, why have we NOT seen any evolution in all the time of recorded history??  The only 'evolution' seen in recorded history has been the result of intentional cross-breeding, which is something else that the Almighty tells us not to do.......................

Rikwriter, I think your wrong about the theory bit. Carl Sagen said that Evolution is not a theory it is a fact.
I won't be able to show you but I heard him on TV twice. So maybe he goofed. Well the dictionary has different definitions for theory and one of them is an assumption or guess based on limited information or knowledge. That guess can become a fact if there is more knowledge. That is the only definition of theory I learned in school. Your definition is right also but theories can become facts. No I'm not a creationist or religionist.

Repeat that lie often enough, you might even believe it.



Answer: we have and we do. Creationists simply deny reality.



No, that is incorrect. We have seen evolution among several species in just the last couple centuries. And it's only your (laughable) opinion that the "Almighty" tells us that.

Yes, I said that too. Evolution is a fact. The theory is about how it happened, what paths it took.  Just like gravity is a fact but there are different theories as to how gravity happens.



No, you goofed. You didn't even bother to read what I said about the whole thing just up the page.



Doesn't matter, you're wrong about the SCIENTIFIC (not the public dictionary) definition of what a theory is.  Take the Theory of Relativity, for example. It has been proven via experiment time and time again, no one has been able to show any way that it could be incorrect and its tenets are assumed in every facet of modern physics. But it still isn't called "the fact of relativity."

Sorry Duffy, I wouldn't be caught dead in LA.
[;)]

Why? would'nt god provide? save the belivers? feed them for 70 days and nights?

Well, I have been to LA...once...in 1991.  I WAS packing however. Ironically, at the time, carrying a gun without a permit was only a misdemeanor in California, while carrying a switchblade was a felony. Go figure.

Rikwriter, before evolution became a fact what was it? The hypothesis of evolution? Maybe in the beginning but it became the theory of evolution. Theories do become facts in scientific terms.

Duffypoo,,,I'd love to try my best. First of all, you are right, God is a god of love and forgiveness. However God's forgiveness IS conditional.  It is conditional on whether or not we accept Christ as our savior. I will get back to this in a second.  As to your comparison, this verse from the bible should help explain that. 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." So you see, the difference is that it is not God's will that anybody should have to go to hell, however the choice is left up to us. Even though God loves us and wants us to be with him, he still gave us the gift of free will. Because of the sin that entered into the world back during Adam and Eve's time, we as humans became no longer "righteous" of heaven.  

Because of our sin, we could not enter into heaven, so God had to create another way that our sins could be paid for. This is where Jesus Christ, God's son, comes into play. When He came to earth as a man and died on the cross (this shows how much God really loves us that he would be willing to send his Son to die on the cross so that we would be able to enter into heaven and be with him for all eternity), he took responsibility for all the sins that had been committed and all of the sins that would be committed. Then with all of these sins on His shoulder's he died on the cross and therefore paid the price for them. Jesus has already done the hard part, so all that is left is for you to except this gift that he has already paid for. Here is another way to look at it.  If you were a kid at Christmas time, and your parents handed you a gift from under the tree.  Even though the gift has already been paid for, if you refuse to except the gift, you do not have the gift.  It is there, but because you flat out refused it, you don't get it.  You might want the gift, you might hope to get the gift, but if you do not stick out your hands and except the gift, you will not have it.Remember that this is not something that is hard to do, it is not complicated, and sometimes I think that is what gives most people the hardest time. I hate to have to say this next part, because I fear I may make you mad. Your belief, or hope, that you will go to heaven because you are a decent and honest person is unfortunately wrong. I have little doubt that you are a more decent and honest person than I am. We all have our faults. This again is because we are all sinners. However being decent and honest, luckily for us, is not how we are gauged as to whether we go to heaven or hell. Here is a verse from Ephesians 2:8-9 " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." That clearly says to me that we are saved through faith and not by the good works that we have done.  The biggest reason for this is that if you try to gain salvation through your works, you are trying to save yourself, and Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" I hope that you will not be offended to the point that you will not consider what I have said. I am sure that God has a reason for this conversation, if you believe in God, maybe he is wanting you to take the next step and except Christ as your savior. Please consider all of this. Remember that I have nothing to gain, no ulterior motive, by writing this. This is purely because I have a concern to see people saved. And also don't be too quick to disregard what the Bible says simply because men wrote it. The men wrote what they were told to write from God. It is His word, and although I'm sure that some things are changed a bit during translation, I doubt that God would allow the meaning to be changed. Consider this and please feel free to ask any questions, or have me try and explain something better.
claymore-MO

I am sorry teppe, but you're incorrect. Evolution was never NOT a fact. It's ALWAYS been a fact, since it started (whenever and wherever the first life began). Just like gravity has always existed.  Scientific theories DO NOT BECOME FACTS.  You're just plain wrong, I don't know any other way to say it.  You continue to confuse the layman's definitions of theory and fact with the scientific terms.  You don't make facts, you FIND facts and make theories to explain them.

Dang,,,that has to be the longest post I've ever made. [:d]

RikWriter, I don't want to start a war here so I more than likely won't respond to your answer to my next question.  And I'm also not being sarcastic, just curious about what your take on things is. Here's the question: If animals evolved, eventually into humans, why is it that you never see any "in between animals"? Sure lizards have some similarities with birds, but where are the fossils showing a slow change from arms to wings? from lizard to bird?  Or with any other animal for that matter. Lets go from fish to salamander.  Where is the in-between, where did the fish start to grow legs, then develope lungs, then lose it's gills?

There are lots of animals with similarities, as a matter of fact all of them have something in commmon, but then again, architects tend to design similar houses.

talk to everybody later
M18A1 Claymore

They are there, man. They JUST found a flightless dinosaur with feathers that was likely one of the links from dinosaurs to birds. Many dinosaurs had bird-like hips and hollow bones.  There are also fossils of fish and living species of fish that have rudimentary lungs and venture onto land.  The fact is, all the questions that creationists like to ask about evolution have answers,  but the creationists usually don't bother to find out the answers...they simply ask the questions and split.

Ok, I totally subscribe to the phrase, to each his own. But DAMN, is this just a little hard to swallow? I am NOT religious, I could care less who IS religious, I only get upset when people push it on me. Or recite it so damn much they think its going to, by way of osmosis, sink in.

I am an extremely analytical person, I love science and related studies. Now someone answer me these few simple question with an actual answer. I don't want to hear, cuz the bible said so.

How did Noah get EVERY type of animal, including dinosaurs on the ark? Bugs? How did he feed them all? Why didn't the carnivores eat the herbivores? Were they all just good pals during to cruse?

Lemme get this straight, we all came from Adam and Eve? Ok, Adam screwed Eve, voila, baby boy. What then? Ok, Adam did Eve again. BAM, baby girl. Then what? Did the two babies have kids? Did Eve's son screw her? Did Adam tap his daughters ass? Hmm, its pretty hard to get away from the genetic fact that somewhere along this lines things are going to get screwed up from all the inbreeding. Same holds true for all the animals on the ark if there were only two each.

Even though I would love nothing more than to find out the eternal question WHY we are here, I'm going to accept the fact that the reason I am here is because I choose to be here. I'm going to live my life to the best of my abilities, and do what I think is right to and for others.

Do I believe that if I don't put my faith into someone that hasn't been proven to even exist, I will go to some place full of fire and evil? Umm, lemme think.....NO.

I said I'm not religious, but I do subscribe to a different IDEA as to why we are here. I've done some reading into metaphysics, and have found it to be truly interesting. We are here because we choose to be. We learn lessons and move on. Some repeat the lessons until they get it straight. Simple ideas, relatively easy to grasp and believe. I would NEVER push it on other people But if I had to, before some supreme power, explain my beliefs that would be my answer.

But like I said, to each his own. JUST DON'T CRAM IT DOWN OTHER PEOPLES THROATS.

No,first off,YOU are making a mistake.

Why would God make the world and then leave it up to evolution to perfect.Are you trying to say God does'nt know what He wanted so He said,"What the heck,lets see how thing turn out."?

Also He would'nt of had to use evolution to make the world perfect,if he made the world why would He not finish the job He started?

Sure it is.  From Webster's online:  "2 : a delusional mental disorder that is marked by infantile feelings of personal omnipotence and grandeur."  Since you argue that you know it all about science, that is evidence of the above definition.

Whether [i]you[/i] know it or not.

For a couple reasons. First, if God created everything ex-nihilo 10,000 years ago, then it would be almost impossible for humans to figure out anything about the universe because God would have had to have sped up the speed of light to get all the light from distant stars to reach us, and He would have had to have made the earth in a way that it LOOKS very very old.  That would make God a deceiver (and I thought that was the devil's territory). If God made humans, he made them with an instinctive yearning to understand the universe and He would be  damned cruel God to then turn around and make that universe ununderstandable.
Second, it is very clear from God's track record in the Bible that He does not have everything scripted from beginning to end with no surprises...if He did that, it would totally do away with any concept of free will. First, the Bible has Satan and the angels rebelling, and then humans rebelling.  If God had scripted everything from start to finish, neither would have happened.  
Third, if God exists, He is eternal and extremely patient...waiting a few billion years for things to shake out wouldn't mean anything to Him, particularly if it meant being more fair with His creation.

Cool, now we can add reading comprehension to the long list of things at which you're lacking. I said "ANYONE who has read the same science would know the same things I do."  That would be the opposite of megalomania, which any third grader could tell you. Why don't you go find one to use as an intelligence adviser?

Actually, I would never tell someone they were wrong to believe in God or to believe in the Bible...it is only when believers make specific scientific or historical claims that can be disproven that I argue with them.
I know plenty of Christians that have managed to adapt their faith to fit the facts and I never try to "convert" them.  It's their privilege to believe anything they want and they have as good a chance of being right as I do.
Of course if a believer WANTS to debate/argue Christianity vs nonbelief, that's another story.
[:D]