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Disagree. If he had sent the Whermacht in to wipe out the English, instead of pounding them ineffectively from the air, the English would have sued for peace, or at least been unable to defend themselves from an invasion. |
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They did have..Estonians, Latvians, Ukrainians, Cossacks, White Russians....they had divisions of Russian/Soviet volunteers fighting with them. Hell there were pockets of resistance in Latvia, which consisted of Latvian volunteers and remnants of the German units on the peninsula still fighting (albeit on a small and losing scale) until the early 50's I believe...maybe till the late 40's..but still... |
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Why does everyone think that the US would have gotten involved? The only reason we fought Germany was because they declared war on us. |
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Agreed, but I don't think they ever used them to their full potential. It's immaterial. Like you said earlier, if Hitler had not gotten involved in the Balkans, and had implemented Barbarossa on the scheduled date, the Russians would have been kaput. Focusing so intently on Stalingrad didn't help much either. |
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Negatory. Game over, maybe, for the United Kingdom. Germany had no ability to strike the US, and once we had the atom bomb, it was game over. We stopped laying down hulls in 1943...and ended the war with a supreme Navy. If we kept on building, it would've been even worse. The atom bomb was developed with Germany, not Japan in mind, as was the B-36. A lot of people like to laud the German U-boat effort, but don't realize the US submariners actually sank more tonnage than the Germans did. The US also developed the ability to mass produce atom bombs at the rate of 3 or 4 per month. |
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He couldn't cross the channel because he didn't have the assets necessary to challenge the Royal Navy which interdicted the channel. Imaging D-Day in reverse, only without air supremacy and better motivated and trained troops. Keeping our troops in Europe supplied was difficult, it would've been impossible for the Germans to keep their troops supplied in England and fight off the British navy at the same time. Germany needed several more years of uncontested naval build up to take on England. |
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Germany had one chemical weapon, it is classified as a weapon of mass destruction. Tabun, the first known nerve agent, was discovered accidentally in 1936 by the German researcher Dr. Gerhard Schrader. Allies did not know such weapons existed. And the Germans did not use them, Thanks to Hitler, appears to be due to the fact that having been gassed himself in WW1 he had some distaste for gas. I’m sure if you nuked Germany he would have used it. |
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Hmmmm. Good point. |
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One thing that kind of screwed up Hitlers warplans too, was the fact that he had to fight England.
He had really hoped and planned that England wouldn't fight. He was a bit of an anglophile, he didn't want to fight them. He had hoped and planned on letting England keep her status and colonies, he had hope England would see his attack on Poland as re-acting to provocation, and his attack on France as payback from WWI. England declared war on Germany after the invasion of Poland, and that was that. If things would have worked out....England would have sat it out, Hitler defeated France...now had England as friend and trading partner, and turn his full might east. Didn't work out that way, but the war was not really unwinable until the mistakes of '42 in the east. Once they went on the defensive in '43, they were never able to again mount any meaningful offensives in the East. |
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How is he going to get it to the US? With the A9 rocket which was never completed? The Germans had no bomber comparable to the B-29. Delivery of any significant munitions to the United States would've been problematic. By the end of the war, US anti-submarine efforts were very good at finding and sinking u-boats. It helps when you know their codes. Germans had nerve gas, but the Allies had tremendous stocks of regular chemical weapons, and we actually came fairly close to using them. There was an accident in one of the Italian ports where a munitions ship loaded with mustard gas blew up and exposed quite a few allied troops to Mustard gas. This was total war. Germany's ability to use these weapons wasn't that great. Remember, Germany launched a couple thousand or so V1's and V2's on England. The US and Britain routinely bombed Germany cities with a thousand bombers AT A TIME, each one carrying a V2 equivilent bomb payload. * * * Imagine what Germany might've been able to do to Russia if they had 1.5 million more troops in the Eastern Front instead of tied down to static air defense. Imagine if all those Luftwaffe fighters that were trying to shoot down B-17s, Mosquitoes, B-24's, and B-25's were instead doing CAS in the Eastern Front. Imagine if Lend-Lease hadn't provided the Russians about half their fuel, almost all of their rolling stock, all of their boots and radios, over half their trucks. Russia was able to defeat Germany largely through the help of the United States which kept them from starving, and allowed the Soviet strategic offensives of 1944 (Bagration) and 1945 to happen and keep on going. Without American trucks, the Russian armies would've been leg mobile only. |
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They were actually designing the A-bomb for Germany but were a bit late to use them. |
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There is only one way in which Hittler could have won WWII. It was covered by Alexandar Blevins in his book HOW Hittler could of won WWII. Basically Hittler should have let Rommel go all the way to southern Russia destroying the British army in Egypt and the Levent. With out fighting the Russians they would have been sitting on all the oil they needed and Russia would not be able to fight anyone. The Russians would not be able to send an army into Europe and the British would not have been able to receive supplies from India. This plan was the Rommel Gift and Hittler should have gone along with this plan as proposed by Donitz I believe. Germany would have avoided a force on force war with Russia and Russia would never have become a super power. Remember WWII made Russia a super power. In time Hittler could have been dumped by the Germans and America could have taken in the European Jews as we should have done so in the 1930s. They would have made a positive contribution to America unlike what we have now. The world would have been better without Soviet and German police states.
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Would you agree that part of the reason Hitler allowed the BEF to escape from Dunkirk was from a desire to allow the English to "save face"? That the English would "understand" and then allow Hitler to do his thing with Russia? |
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I wouldn't doubt that was part of it, even if it was just subconcious... |
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Suppose he would have continued production of weapons Before attacking his fisrt country...suppose he would have developed the U2 and V2 rockets to do his initial assaults for him...suppose he would not have divided his forced to fight on two fronts in the winter...
I'm glad he made mistakes ...but as typical Americans, we always under estimate our enemy and suffer because of it... |
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He lost a lot of good men and beautiful hench-women looking for the Arc of the Covenent and the Holy Grail...... [ |
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Some of you need to read the Nuremburg Interviews and understand that it wasn't just Hitler. Its true that Hitler made some major bonehead moves, Dunkirk, not giving Rommel the go, invading Russia, not invading England, etc. The major problem the Nazis had was that most of them were fucking lunatics. There was a tremendous amount of animosity and infighting between Himmler, Bormann, and Goering which hampered the success of the German Generals. Everyone had these grandiose schemes of how things should get done. If Hitler would have stuck to annexing little bits of this and that the EU would have come about much quicker, it would just be called the Union of Nazi Europe.
Its pretty clear the Russians were on the move and postitioning to attack Germany. I don't think it was possible for the Germans to not have eventually become involved on the eastern front with the Russians. I do think it would have made a lot of difference in the US position on the war if they had waited until the Russians attacked them. Remember there were tons more people of German descent and recent immigrants in the US. Yet the German here were not interned while the Japanese were. Agreed part of this was due to the nature of Pearl Harbor and the tremendous fuckup of attacking before the delivery of the Japanese ultimatum. The whole war in the Pacific is another thread though. There would have been a tremendous outcry in the US against the Russians if that had been allowed to occur. Hitler paranoia just wouldn't allow him to assemble an opposing force and wait. Had that happened the Germans probably would have broken through the Russian forces Stalin would have amassed and just motored to Manchuria. |
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But that's a what-if that presumes too much. The V1 rocket wasn't operational until June of 1944. By that time, the war was already lost for Germany. Kursk had already failed, and on June 22, the Russians launched Operation Bagration which destroyed Army Group Center and pushed the Germans back behind their pre-Barbarosa borders. The Germans had a lot of cool, forward looking programs, but nothing of sufficient quantity or quality to deal with the mass the allies, or even the US alone, could throw at them. And Germany didn't have a reply to the atom bomb, nor the ability to strike the US strategically. Lets say that Germany was able to conquer the UK. Unless they were able to take the British Navy intact, the US could interdict the British Isles, land a beach head anywhere they wanted to, and rely on a unfriendly populace to make life hell for the occupying Germans. In short order, we would've rebuilt our Normandy launch pad. And, we would've had B-36's able to strike Berlin from Iceland, and atomic bombs rolling out of Tacoma, Washington at the rate of 4 per month. |
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You want to see a prime example of underestiming your opponent look at the Japanese. They started a war knowing up front they could only support it for six months at the most. Fuck all for bushido, Yamamoto was an egotical maniac who got hundreds of thousands of Japanese military men slaughtered and gave Japan privlege of being the only real time testing ground of nuclear war. The Allies in Europe, if anything, over estimated the capabilties of the Germans. Bradley could have probably ended the war six months earlier if he'd have let Patton head towards Germany after the Normandy Breakout instead of sending him into Brittany. The European war was not strictly an Americans only deal. Its a very good thing for everyone that Eisenhower was made Supreme Allied Commander rather than Montgomery. Eisenhower had a great deal of respect for the capabilities of the Wermacht and Luftwaffe and proceeded accordingly. |
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Had the Germans taken Moscow in 1941, it would have been game over for the Russians. Moscow was main rail hub for the USSR, ALL rail lines ran through it. With the German's in control of it, the Russian Army West of Moscow would have been cut off from all supplies from the Urals. The Wermacht would have mopped up the rest of the Russian Army and gained something they always desired, large oil fields plus access to vast human/mineral resources. This is kind of a scary picture, with the oil and human/mineral wealth of Russia, the German's would not have a problem competing with the US on a industrial scale. Hell, the US would not enter WWII till Dec 7 and the US industrial base hadn't even revved up yet. Just thinking about that, I can see why Churchill thought the Nazi's were a greater threat than the Communist's. |
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Your assuming that we'd have gotten into the war without the Pearl Harbor attack. There was very little sentiment in the US to go back to war in Europe until then. If not for Pearl Harbor we might not have gotten involved in Europe unitl much later, if at all. There wasn't a lot of support for a return to war in Europe. Too many people saw another WWI and wanted no part of it. Europe's problems are Europe's problems was the average sentiment with regard to the war in Europe. |
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The original requirement for the B-29 was to bomb Germany from air bases in Northern Ireland. 12 bases were to be built in 1943 but the planes were switched to the Far East after the Casablanca Conference. The original target for the Atom Bomb was always Germany. If the Germans had still been fighting in August 1945, Berlin would have gotten a dose of Instant Sunshine, not Hiroshima. ANdy |
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It was utterly impossible for the Germans to invade Britain. In the Summer of 1940, germany had two cruisers and 10 destroyers in service, the Royal Navy had 160 ships earmarked to attack the Invasion Forces. The entire Home Fleet with its Battleships and aircraft carriers was still intact. The Germans never attained air superiority over mainland Britain, they never could, the RAF was always able to fall back out of German fighter range and regroup in the 4/5's of Britain beyond Luftwaffe range. Fighter production increased during the B of B and the RAF still had 1,200 pilots with 100 hrs comat time held in reserve for the invasion. Even at the height of the Battle of Britain, the Royal Navy was sailing Battleships into the Channnel at night to bombard the invasion barges. If the Germans had attempted an invasion, Churchill had cleared the wholescale use of Chemical Weapons against the invasion forces and the RAF were to bomb German cities with Mustard Gas. ANdy |
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The whole question is pretty circular... The only way Hitler and the Germans could have won WWII is if Hitler and the rest of the Nazi's weren't nuts and running things. And, if they weren't running things... No WWII.
There were so many irrational decisions made by Hitler and his cabal that it's mind-numbing to consider that someone actually put that bunch in charge of a country. I talked to a German when I was stationed over there, who had been in the officer corps, before the war. His take on the whole thing was that the general staff had let Hitler do the crazed things he did, initially, in the hopes that he'd get his ass handed to him. The general staff actually believed that when Hitler had them move into the Rhineland, that the French and the UK would crush them, and they'd get rid of the madman. Unfortunately, Hitler's bluff worked. Then he took Czechoslovakia, and that was kind of the same deal--the general staff thought he'd lose. He won. Poland--same thing. The generals started to think he might know what the hell he was doing, and the other alternative was usually a concentration camp, so they went along with him. Key lesson to learn from WWII is, crush the madmen before they get successful. If the French and British had had the nuts to block him in the Rhineland, and hadn't given him Czechoslovakia, the rest of the war *couldn't * have happened. Most people don't know that the Wehrmacht was mostly armed with Czech weapons, for the first part of the war. If the west hadn't given those to him, Poland could have defended herself. |
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Not true that the Allies didn't know it existed. The Allies were full aware it existed, but Churchill pointed out to the Germans that they could produce 10 times the amount of mustard gas that the Germans could produce of tabun, and the British would blanket all of Germany in a mustard gas cloud if the Germans used tabun. The Germans realized that the British and Americans had a huge advantage in delivering chemical weapons and therefore didn't use any. |
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Germany should not have gone to war in 39. They should have built up more force, then kicked it off in 41. They should not have hit Russia so soon either. Destroy the western allies first including the invasion of England, then kill Hitler and sue for peace. Once a treaty could be signed, hit Russia. Burn it all, Shell Stalingrad to dust while bypassing it to get to the oil fields to the east. Burn Kiev and Moscow to the ground, demonize Stalin as the devil and execute him in red square. Declare Russia free from his oppressive rule. Dig in, strengthen supply lines. Use all other resources to develope more weapons including the heavy bombers and WMDs. Install Gerdarian or Rommel as Chancellor.
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The Ukranians cheered the German army as liberators until the army left to the east and the SS death squads rolling in to finish the Nazi job. After that, all of the Soviet people became united with Stalin. If the Germans would have exploited the hatred of Stalin with the Soviets, they could have had him on a silver platter
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Not true. Germany had no chance of beating the Soviet Union and the United States.
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The Nazi's problem extended beyond just Adolf Hitler.
For example: Admiral Doenitz refused to believe that Enigma machines were compromised. Hitler and his High Staff refused to believe that the Code Lorenz (which they used to communicate with each other) was broken. Doenitz also felt that the Type VII submarine was sufficient before 1939. Even though the technology which was later used in Type 21 Submarines was already available. Germany's Operation Barbossa was ill thought out in terms of logistics. There was much fighting between the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe over using Long Range Recon planes to spot convoys. To top the whole thing off, Germany went to War sooner than was originally planned. |
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The ifs are so unlikely in this case that it makes no difference. If things were that different, the war would never have happened. But anyway.
Germany could have won, if... 1) Members of the General Staff originally tried to dissuade Hitler from starting the war until 1945, when the German Navy build program would have been completed and Luftwaffe and Army rearmament would have been completed. Hitler was afraid he'd die before then, so he kicked it off early. Most of the German Army was still powered by foot and hoof, the big four-engined bombers had not come online, and the aircraft carriers were incomplete. Germany did have proponents of naval power and strategic bombing, but they weren't listened to. The balanced fleet plan might not have been viable, but two Stuka-carrying aircraft carriers wouldn't have been a pleasant prospect in any situation. 2) The General Staff never wanted a risky war and almost rebelled during every early campaign. The chief of the General Staff almost challenged one of the top Nazis to a formal duel before Austria. They planned a mass resignation before Czech. If Hitler had been reigned in earlier, there would not have been a second World War. That makes those ifs meaningless. 3) Hitler attacked the West because the west declared war on him after Poland. According to his writings, he had no interest in the west. I'm sure he really did, but he wanted the east first. Everything he did up until that point, the negotiations before Austria and Czech, the Soviet non-aggression pact, was designed to keep the west out of the war. The attacks in 1940 were designed to clear his flank more than anything. 4) The US would have come in regardless. FDR would have gotten the US involved no matter what happened. It might have taken a little longer, but it would have happened. Once the US came in, it was over for Germany. For many reasons. 5) If Hitler had let the tanks roll at Dunkirk, it wouldn't have mattered. It was probably a supply issue anyway, but that's not important. The British would have brought in more Canadian troops to defend the home islands. Hitler failed when he didn't invade the islands immediately. After the disasters in Scandanavia, this was probably impossible immediately and by the time it was the balance of power had shifted there. Hitler probably couldn't have pulled off a successful invasion without a lot of luck. 6) If Hitler had managed to take the islands, the US and Empire might have been able to stage out of Iceland and retake the islands. It would have been a lot of work, but that was the theme of the war. Or they could have invaded North Africa as normal. Or both. The resources were there at least. 7) The interesting part is that Hitler might have knocked Russia out of the war, if everything went right. If he had gotten started in April as originally planned. If he had played the ethnic minorities off against Stalin. If he had let his generals run the show instead of getting in their way. It might have happened. The war in the west would have been longer and more costly in that case. Russia would still tie down a large occupation force and it would have taken years to get the industry there going, so it probably wouldn't have been decisive. 8) If Hitler had died before invading Poland, no one would know about the camps or his insanity, and he'd be revered as one of Germany's greatest leaders. But once he started the war, he couldn't have won. He could have dragged it out, he could have cost the Allies far more casualties, he could have turned Germany into smoking atomic ruin, but that's about it. It was overreach. |
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Hitler made several really bad decisions. One was at Stalingrad. Von Paulus could of easily broke out of the encirclement by the Russian forces if Hitler would of allowed it. The German officers couldn't believe what they were hearing when Hitler told them to stand and fight. If you are cut off from your supply lines standard military procedure is to immediately counterattack to regain your supplies. Von Paulus had the breakout organized and ready to go when Hitler told them no. Bad mistake-Cost the Germans and entire Army.
However Hitlers mistakes greatly speeded up the defeat of the Germans but I seriously doubt if they could of won the war even without his mistakes. It was also Hitler who demanded they fight on when there was no chance of a victory. Many in the military had seen the hand writing on the wall and was ready to surrender. |
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Nope, Germany never had a realistic chance of invading England. The English army was still very strong after Dunkirk (the UK only sent a small part of their army and airforce to France before Dunkirk, the majority were still safe and well in the UK) Read this page (and the link at the bottom of it) for a good argument why Operation Sealion was a disaster waiting to happen, for the Germans. www.flin.demon.co.uk/althist/seal1.htm |
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What about Japan? Could Hitler get away with invading Russia if Japan helped?
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Yes. A significant portion of the Russian army was tied up in Manchuria at the start of Barbarossa. It was these reinforcements that smashed the German forces at the end of 1941. Incidentally, one of the reasons why Hitler was so steadfast in ordering the 6th Army at Stalingrad to stand and fight was because of 1941, when the Soviet counter-attack overran many German positions and Hitler started his "fortress" orders. These orders saved the day in '41, otherwise the front would've been thrown back to Poland. |
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Japan was terrified of the Russians and were not going to join in. They did attack the Russian in the Far East in 1939 and were handed their ass on a plate by a certain Lt General Zukhov, he went on to greater things in the War.... The Japanese Kwantung Army drew wrong conclusions from the easy successes of its first probes of 1937. Communist troops were easily swept from two small islands on the River Amur, on the border of Manchukuo. Assessment of this easy "victory" concluded that the Red Army must have serious logistical problems, related to the long distance between its eastern and western blocs. Amnon Sella confirms that this was so, despite the USSR's efforts to expand both its rail and road links in the region: Despite the great efforts made to remedy the situation and the marked progress that was achieved, the Soviet Far East still depended on European Russia for such stable commodities as grain, oil, iron ore and steel. A Japanese intelligence report to the Imperial General Headquarters placed a finger on additional weaknesses: Operations vary according to the state of locomotives, the degree of skill of the railway engineers, the availability, in these vast expanses, of coal and water, and other factors. Imperial headquarters' mistake, and the Kwantung Army command's mistake, was to judge Stalin's caution and forbearance to be weakness. After the signing of the Anti-Comintern Pact, Stalin was alarmed at the possibility of the USSR being involved in a two-front war. He was shuffling his cards. When in July 1938, the Kwantung Army struck again, attacking troops of the Red Russian Independent Eastern Army in a hilly area, Zhanggufeng, on the eastern border of Manchukuo, close to Korea, they were stopped in their tracks. Instead of pondering their failure, the Kwantung Army commanders "dismissed the reverse as 'forty percent of a victory' won in a difficult sector". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In April 1939 the 23rd Division of the Kwantung Army moved to a new target, Outer Mongolia; with orders to cross into Nomonhan, a deserted and disputed sector on the Manchukuo-Korean-Mongolian border. Japanese tanks, infantry and cavalry directed fierce attacks into this zone from May to July 1939, but were repulsed at all times by the defenders. Operations, on the Khalkan-Gol river, intensified rapidly. From May, Soviet bombers attacked into Manchukuo and Japanese bombers retaliated. The greatest air battles yet seen were taking place, with formations of 150-200 war planes deployed. Soviet anti-aircraft fire was highly effective and the Japanese airforce barely held its own. Concerned at a possible threat to the Trans-Siberian Railway occasioned by these expanded hostilities, the Soviet Defence Ministry dispatched to the sector its ablest commander, Lieutenant-General Georgi Zhukov, later a Marshal of the USSR and Stalin's most renowned commander in the German war. Zhukov arrived in June 1939. He arrived to find that the Kwantung Army had secured some vital high ground and quickly concluded his need for reinforcements. Before August 1939 he had acquired 550 front line aircraft, 500 state-of-the-art T34 tanks, twenty cavalry squadrons and thirty-five infantry battalions. He outnumbered the Kwantung Army three to two in infantry, by three squadrons in cavalry, and possessed a qualitative edge in armour. But above all, his army was to show a marked superiority in intelligence analysis, command, control and communication. One of the first commanders to use radio signals intelligence to advantage, Zhukov sowed misinformation with the Japanese by broadcasting fictitious command orders, ciphered in codes he knew the Japanese could break. He led the Kwantung Army to believe that he intended only defensive measures. Richard Sorge, a Soviet agent of German-Russian parentage, the press attaché to the German embassy in Tokyo, also assisted, by providing Zhukov with the Japanese order of battle. The commanders of the Red Army and the Mongolian forces were well trained and as blooded in battle as were the Japanese. The Mongolian General Choibalson, and Zhukov's Chief of Staff, General Shtern, were superior field officers. Zuhkov's control of preparations for the critical battle was copybook. His battalion and squadron commanders were not made aware that an offensive action was planned until three hours before the units moved out. The Kwantung Army had been misled, and many Japanese officers were away from their units at the time of the attack. A German style communications network assured tight control throughout the battle. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Red Army's surprise assault began on 20 August 1939, with a thrust across the border into western Manchukuo. Zhukov's blitzkreig combination of armour, artillery, air support, and infantry, broke new ground. A Red Army lightning assault pre-dated the German blitzkreig into Poland by thirty-three days. Captain D.W. Phillis' description of the attack properly identifies the ingredients of a momentous, but largely forgotten, battle: He launched concentrated air, artillery and armour assaults along the enemy's whole front with the main armoured thrust going to the flank. As a result he was able to encircle the whole army, and settle down to a battle of annihilation, grinding the enemy by continuous assault. At the battle of Khalkin-Gol (sometimes called the Battle of the River Halka, or by the Japanese the Nomonhan incident), Zhukov's force wiped out the Japanese 23rd Division, killing 18,000 Japanese troops. The Red Army and its Mongolian ally then demonstrated its absolute command of the battle by penetrating thirty kilometres further and stopping at the Manchurian frontier. Russia's air fleet was equally successful. Soviet airforce tactics were superior to the Japanese, with tighter and better controlled air formations, that refused to be tempted into individual dogfights. The Russians employed aerial rockets in this battle, for the first time in air warfare. The Japanese Kwantung Army commander was now more than ready for a cease-fire, and in Tokyo Japanís political leaders hoped that the Soviet government would be content with a re-drawing of the disputed borders. The war had embarrassed Japan in many ways. Beside a military defeat, where 18,000 of Japan's 60,000 battle force were killed, and probably another 20,000 wounded, the imperial family was mortified by the desertion of Lieutenant Higashikuni, the twenty-three-year-old son of Prince Higashikuni, during the fight, a matter suppressed by Japanís censors.13 Stalin was also happy to call it a day. Zhukov withdrew his force to the Manchurian border on 31 August 1939 and received orders to immediately move his heavy armour to the railhead, for rail transport to Poland. The USSR's slowness in biting off its slice of defeated Poland, a delay of fourteen days, can be explained by Stalin's concern to close hostilities in the east before moving militarily in the west. Hitler's Nazi-Soviet Pact of 23 August 1939, seen by the Japanese government as a betrayal of the anti-Comintern Pact, reinforced Japan's decision to use Hitler but never to trust him. The Nazi-Soviet pact was announced during a Japanese military disaster. This combination required a revision by Japan of its policy to the USSR. Hostilities ended officially on 16 September 1939 with handshaking and photographs of the commanders. A commission was set in place to re-draw the vexed boundaries. Japan decided that it was not yet ready for an all-out war with the Soviet Union and on 13 April 1941 the Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact was signed, with Japan unaware that Hitler would reverse his arrangement with the USSR and launch the Wehrmacht on Operation Barbarossa in June 1941. The Nomonhan incident and the preceding borderland fights on the contested Mongolian-Manchurian borders, confirmed that in 1938 and 1939 the "Go North" strategy was highly favoured by elements of the Japanese army. Why then, with Germany invaded by the USSR in June 1941, did Japan not then seize the day and mount an invasion of the Soviet eastern republics? On 28 March 1941 the German foreign minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop, persuaded Count Oshima, the Japanese ambassador in Berlin, of the merit of joint action to deliver "a crushing blow" on the USSR. Germany sought a Japanese attack on Vladivostok, and into the USSR's central Asiatic republic. Tokyo was not interested. While the Japanese foreign minister, Matsuoka Yosuke favoured a "Go North" thrust, most civil and military leaders in Tokyo advocated caution. With the Soviet Union now within the Anglo-American camp, albeit with the United States in non-belligerent status, Japan risked attack by the Russians in Manchuria and by the United States at sea. A two front war was undesirable, and likely to be calamitous. The Soviets were well deployed on Manchuria's border, and had shown their determination to fight. In mid-1941 the "Go South" strategy won preference with Japan to secure its needed resources in the south, diplomatically if possible. The Kwantung Army's pride was salved by a reminder that once Japan had secured its goal in the south the contest with the USSR could then be resumed. In any case, it was better to wait until Germany had broken the Red Army and taken Moscow. http://zhukov.mitsi.com/Russo.htm |
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Many of the divisions used in the 1941-1942 winter offensive were transferred from Siberia. The units out there were the best in the Red Army and Zhukov was by far their best commander.
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One good reaon being that Germany did not attack us, Japan did. |
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