User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:00:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup, now we know where those stingers went. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess Ambassador Stevens gave them the good shit. How's that? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:08:31 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since this is an airplane thread, can l make airplane sounds while spoon feeding you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Given that the news media knew exactly who was responsible for the Plane in Ukraine before it even hit the ground, why dont they know this one by now? Is there going to be an investigation to trace the missile back to Libya then the US? So what are you saying mdk? Tell me more. Since this is an airplane thread, can l make airplane sounds while spoon feeding you? Spoon feed me baby. Lay it out there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:10:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, now we know where those stingers went. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I guess Ambassador Stevens gave them the good shit. As it's been pointed out already, a Stinger doesn't have enough ceiling to hit an airliner at 31k feet. An actual SAM could, but there are at least 3 countries that keep a pretty close eye on things like fire control radars lighting up in the Sinai. And even then if ISIS got their hands on something like an ex-Libyan SA-6 launcher, it's still not a "3 guys I know from around the block who are handy with the TV remote" sort of job. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:10:47 AM EDT
[#4]
Do folks really think MANPADS can reach that far?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:13:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do folks really think MANPADS can reach that far? Apparently so. Haven't you seen the threads? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:14:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't that area pretty remote? Even if the missile were trailered in and it was the size of a telephone pole there are some places a launch could go unseen. Remote? Yes. But it's the Sinai Peninsula so you know someone, somewhere, attached to some group is monitoring that area. But like I said, not like they have an obligation to tell us. And not like telling the pilot would have made it not happen -- commercial airlines don't have countermeasures. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:16:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apparently so. Haven't you seen the threads? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do folks really think MANPADS can reach that far? Apparently so. Haven't you seen the threads? Arfcom's version of the grenades at the gun show idea. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:18:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  I swear, every time he posts I hear the theme music from Jurassic Park in my head. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I knew he was muscular for his age, but he has ascended to marvel comic book villian level now? Dropping buildings on people? You know its bad when pro government posters say "false flag" I guess you're not familiar with the origins of the Chechen wars. Hint: It wasn't velociraptors released by mujahideen killing a bunch of Russian civilians.  I swear, every time he posts I hear the theme music from Jurassic Park in my head. For me it's always:  |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:18:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea, poke a bear with a nuclear arsenal, and a psychopath at the controls. ISIS lacks critical thinking skills. The Russians can't afford to do much more in Syria than they're already doing. Their GDP is lower than California's... |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:19:02 AM EDT
[#10]
I don't think it will happen, but this doesn't end well for anybody if Russia starts nuking. Just sayin.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:19:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I knew he was muscular for his age, but he has ascended to marvel comic book villian level now? Dropping buildings on people? You know its bad when pro government posters say "false flag" I guess you're not familiar with the origins of the Chechen wars. Hint: It wasn't velociraptors released by mujahideen killing a bunch of Russian civilians.
I swear, every time he posts I hear the theme music from Jurassic Park in my head. For me it's always: https://media1.giphy.com/media/ZzQxOlqIUfHfG/200.gif 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:20:29 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think it will happen, but this doesn't end well for anybody if Russia starts nuking. Just sayin. How so? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:26:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they did do it, I hope this galvanizes Russian public opinion to rain death upon them in Old Testament style............ Let it be so. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:28:13 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do folks really think MANPADS can reach that far? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:28:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Regardless these airliners need defensive counter measures in today's world. El Al (Israeli airline) has for years |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:32:47 AM EDT
[#16]
It would be in Russia's best interests for ISIL to have shot this aircraft down. Even more justification to exert their influence in the ME. Yet not a peep about it from state run media or the Russian government.
Aside from that...nearly any ADA asset that ISIS "could" have acquired from Libya requires an extensive knowledge of the system. While it's possible a trained operator was found, it's not likely. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:37:14 AM EDT
[#17]
I dont believe this thing fell out of the sky due to technical failure. It was either an onboard bomb or an actual missile. If they got a bomb on board, and since the Egyptians are screw ups about anything else so why not this", it would make sense to attribute it to a missile because that would cause more general panic and pain to Egypts biggest industry, which is tourism. And since the Russians, albiet so damn cheap and lousy tippers, make up a big % of that tourism. This is win-win for Abdul. He gets to destabilize Egypts Govt. and economy further while paying Russia back for dropping cruise missiles on top of them.
I dont think this was any technical problem. There is so much excess Soviet era hardware floating around the region its very possible ISIS got ahold of an old system thats perfectly capable of dropping an airliner in ambush. Which Militarily is like clubbing a baby seal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:46:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm calling BS. Unless it was a bomb on board. They don't have anything to shoot down a plane @ 30,000 ft.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:47:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, they do. They also don't have the ability to question why they are capable of shooting down airliners at 30K plus, but can't manage to deal with helicopters low enough to reach out and touch. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do folks really think MANPADS can reach that far? No they do not. The latest and most advanced are supposedly capable of 15,000' but that 15k is in a straight line. And deviation with an airliner not flying a straight route over you and its more then 15K. Theres no way this airliner was downed by a manpad if it was indeed at that height. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:47:25 AM EDT
[#20]
IS is claiming responsibility for this? They're even stupider than I thought.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:51:09 AM EDT
[#21]
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/19/us-weapons-to-syria-repeats-historical-mistake
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-begins-weapons-delivery-to-syrian-rebels/2013/09/11/9fcf2ed8-1b0c-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html Barry has been shipping weapons to Syrian "rebels". In “Audacity of Hope” he writes: “I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” The quote comes from page 261 of the paperback edition of “The Audacity of Hope. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:52:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/19/us-weapons-to-syria-repeats-historical-mistake https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-begins-weapons-delivery-to-syrian-rebels/2013/09/11/9fcf2ed8-1b0c-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html Barry has been shipping weapons to Syrian "rebels". In “Audacity of Hope” he writes: “I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” The quote comes from page 261 of the paperback edition of “The Audacity of Hope. He was shipping them Patriot missiles? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 1:56:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But I hope Russia Nukes Raqqa regardless. This all day. I don't think they did shit, and I know the rooskies ain't gonna nuke 'em, but if we are allowed to fantasize? Light it the fuck up! |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 2:33:17 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No they do not. The latest and most advanced are supposedly capable of 15,000' but that 15k is in a straight line. And deviation with an airliner not flying a straight route over you and its more then 15K. Theres no way this airliner was downed by a manpad if it was indeed at that height. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do folks really think MANPADS can reach that far? No they do not. The latest and most advanced are supposedly capable of 15,000' but that 15k is in a straight line. And deviation with an airliner not flying a straight route over you and its more then 15K. Theres no way this airliner was downed by a manpad if it was indeed at that height. Correctomundo. Straight line at a stationary target.... Literally the best case scenario is the max range for these types of weapons. If the plane was taking off or landing MANPADS would be a likely weapon but at 30k feet with the plane flying away from the system operator? It's simply not feasible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 2:59:01 AM EDT
[#25]
TLDR WARNING:
Quoted:
He was shipping them Patriot missiles? You just don't ship and shoot Patriot missiles, it's a very large undertaking with 100+ soldiers, 5-8 Patriot launcher(s) w/HEMMT's,1- Radar w/HEMMT, 1- Engagement Control Station (ECS) on a 5 Ton truck ,1- EPP (Electric Power Plant) w/HEMMT; towing a fuel trailer, 1- AMG (Antenna mast group) on a 5 ton tuck, 1-2- HEMMT reloaders, 2- HEMMT fuel tankers. That's just a very small part of a basic setup, there is so much other shit you need to properly run the Patriot Missile System. You also need an RSOP (Reconnaissance, Selection and Occupation of Position) team to scout and prepare the location in advance, which isn't just saying put it over there. Proper distances between equipment is critical, terrain is critical, I'd have to write for hours the amount of shit that is needed just to sling one missile at an airliner. It takes approximately a hour to emplace a Patriot Missile System, a good battery can do it in just under 45 minutes, but the real magic happens in the van (ECS), that's where the radar screens are monitored, and the pretty fireworks are controlled (for those that were edumacated in public schools). Without skilled 14E's, formerly 24E - E=Echo), you couldn't understand shit from shinola in the van.
My description above is with a high speed U.S. Army trained & meshed Patriot Battery. Teaching that shit to anyone from the Middle East (Israel not included), takes months, many, many months (cough, cough year  ). The Germans have a better setup than the U.S. does, but they have equipment issues that would make it a little difficult in the Middle East.
My point is, you can give ISIS an entire Patriot Battery's equipment, with every manual written in Arabic, and I bet my life they couldn't get it done right in under six months. My personal belief is it would take them a year. IMHO, MEADS is a better system. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 3:23:57 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IS is claiming responsibility for this? They're even stupider than I thought. I was going to post this. Don't they know that Putin, the thug he is, has balls and will retaliate unlike that nancy boy obama? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 3:30:23 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I knew he was muscular for his age, but he has ascended to marvel comic book villian level now? Dropping buildings on people? You know its bad when pro government posters say "false flag" I guess you're not familiar with the origins of the Chechen wars. Hint: It wasn't velociraptors released by mujahideen killing a bunch of Russian civilians.
I swear, every time he posts I hear the theme music from Jurassic Park in my head. For me it's always: https://media1.giphy.com/media/ZzQxOlqIUfHfG/200.gif *golfclap* |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 3:44:50 AM EDT
[#28]
If true, this won't turn out nearly as well as ISIS hopes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 3:48:34 AM EDT
[#29]
Use the force.
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 3:50:02 AM EDT
[#30]
Horse shit they shot it down, nothing that they have or even know how to operate can hit something that high.
The airliner went down to mechanical failure, with the remote chance a bomb was on board and that was what took it down. Not to mention they knew which plane was carrying a bunch of Russians? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 3:53:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If true, this won't turn out nearly as well as ISIS hopes. Even if it's not true the ball is in Putin's court. If he wants to make an example of them he will, however, they DO share a common enemy, US. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 4:01:26 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: IS is claiming responsibility for this? They're even stupider than I thought. Especially given that any Stinger or SA-7 (or variant thereof) that ISIS may have gotten their hands on wouldn't even be capable of shooting down this plane under the conditions it was flying at. And as OnlytheTip pointed out, even if ISIS had an actual SAM system, it takes a lot more than a couple of slightly technically savvy practitioners of the Insh'allah School of Military Arts in the launch vehicle to actually fire one and hit anything. That point remains even if it's something simpler like an ex-Libyan Soviet made one. So since MANPADS are out because the laws of physics dictate one couldn't have shot it down, and any SAM systems they may have grabbed in Libya being very unlikely to be even operable by them (setting aside how they'd have managed to sneak it all the way from Libya to the Sinai) then there is no way ISIS could have actually shot the plane down with a missile. So claiming that they did is really, really damn stupid. If they claimed it was a bomb that they planted on it, I'd say that was definitely within the realm of possibility; but I'm still leaning towards it being a technical malfunction of quintessentially Russian proportions. But with ISIS taking credit for "shooting it down" they give Putin the chance to say in private "Yeah sure you did..." but in public the excuse to hammer them some more. So yeah, again, it was stupid. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 4:05:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they did do it, I hope this galvanizes Russian public opinion to rain death upon them in Old Testament style............ Russian folks ain't the bleeding heart US public. They would prefer raining death on them as option #1. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 4:20:00 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IS is claiming responsibility for this? They're even stupider than I thought. A group "affiliated" with ISIS via a tweet of a group who claims to speak on that group's behalf, is what I can gather. So, sounds like complete bullshit as of now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 4:41:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Where did this plane take off from?
And where was it "shot down" at? Could the plane reach 31,000 feet between those two points? I am shaving with Occam's brand razors this morning, so in my mind, the most probable explanations are: 1. Another catastrophic (mechanical) failure of a ScareBus 2. A bomb was snuck on board 3. It really wasn't at 31,000 feet yet before being "shot down" |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 4:43:38 AM EDT
[#36]
Eric Holder was working for Bush and they sent weapons through Lybia. Hitlary then said it didn't matter, so the green light was forth.
Then the carpet riders followed the plane and filmed the plane making smoke as the chemcrail generator attracted the incoming missles and then the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, and Ho Le Fuk, I need another beer |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 5:20:50 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As it's been pointed out already, a Stinger doesn't have enough ceiling to hit an airliner at 31k feet. An actual SAM could, but there are at least 3 countries that keep a pretty close eye on things like fire control radars lighting up in the Sinai. And even then if ISIS got their hands on something like an ex-Libyan SA-6 launcher, it's still not a "3 guys I know from around the block who are handy with the TV remote" sort of job. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess Ambassador Stevens gave them the good shit. As it's been pointed out already, a Stinger doesn't have enough ceiling to hit an airliner at 31k feet. An actual SAM could, but there are at least 3 countries that keep a pretty close eye on things like fire control radars lighting up in the Sinai. And even then if ISIS got their hands on something like an ex-Libyan SA-6 launcher, it's still not a "3 guys I know from around the block who are handy with the TV remote" sort of job. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 5:26:00 AM EDT
[#38]
Photos look to be some sort of fighter or attack aircraft and not an Airbus A321. At least that's the way that I see it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 5:49:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Photos look to be some sort of fighter or attack aircraft and not an Airbus A321. At least that's the way that I see it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 7:22:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Regardless these airliners need defensive counter measures in today's world. The idea was floated after 9/11, even though 9/11 had nothing to do with surface to air missiles. Finally some experts stepped in and pointed out that the defense systems would cost more than the planes they would be mounted on. Additional things complicating the idea today: - Do you think poorer European and Asian airlines can afford them? US airlines couldn't even afford it. - Just don't fly over war zones that contain anti-air missiles wielded by who knows who.  - Have there been more than two instances of this in the last two decades? It's not a problem that needs a solution. Probably a better solution is that when you have to fly over a war zone, you take the hit to fuel economy and fly an extra 5000 or 8000 feet higher to decrease the chance of anything being able to hit you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 7:28:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess Ambassador Stevens gave them the good shit. This.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 7:32:41 AM EDT
[#42]
It seems possible that this could be the plane crashing:
1) Shape of aircraft could be a A321. 2) Video is shot from below, and blurring/shake is consistent with a camera with super zoom (around 30x) and average image stabilization, from maybe 10-15 miles away, then cropped to focus on the plane i.e. consumer grade gear. 3) Sky is bright blue, appropriate for the area of the crash 4) Plane is flying straight and level then boom, consistent with a bomb not a mechanical failure. 5) If they got a bomb on board, knew what time the bomb was going to go off, and knew the normal flight path then they could have got a camera in the right place at the right time. Am I saying this proves ISIS blew it up? no Am I saying I can't disprove this shows a bomb blowing up the plane, yes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 7:39:39 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do folks really think MANPADS can reach that far? Everything after the word "think" was superfluous in your question. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 7:41:04 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TLDR WARNING: You just don't ship and shoot Patriot missiles, it's a very large undertaking with 100+ soldiers, 5-8 Patriot launcher(s) w/HEMMT's,1- Radar w/HEMMT, 1- Engagement Control Station (ECS) on a 5 Ton truck ,1- EPP (Electric Power Plant) w/HEMMT; towing a fuel trailer, 1- AMG (Antenna mast group) on a 5 ton tuck, 1-2- HEMMT reloaders, 2- HEMMT fuel tankers. That's just a very small part of a basic setup, there is so much other shit you need to properly run the Patriot Missile System. You also need an RSOP (Reconnaissance, Selection and Occupation of Position) team to scout and prepare the location in advance, which isn't just saying put it over there. Proper distances between equipment is critical, terrain is critical, I'd have to write for hours the amount of shit that is needed just to sling one missile at an airliner. It takes approximately a hour to emplace a Patriot Missile System, a good battery can do it in just under 45 minutes, but the real magic happens in the van (ECS), that's where the radar screens are monitored, and the pretty fireworks are controlled (for those that were edumacated in public schools). Without skilled 14E's, formerly 24E - E=Echo), you couldn't understand shit from shinola in the van.
My description above is with a high speed U.S. Army trained & meshed Patriot Battery. Teaching that shit to anyone from the Middle East (Israel not included), takes months, many, many months (cough, cough year ). The Germans have a better setup than the U.S. does, but they have equipment issues that would make it a little difficult in the Middle East.
My point is, you can give ISIS an entire Patriot Battery's equipment, with every manual written in Arabic, and I bet my life they couldn't get it done right in under six months. My personal belief is it would take them a year. IMHO, MEADS is a better system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
TLDR WARNING: Quoted:
He was shipping them Patriot missiles? You just don't ship and shoot Patriot missiles, it's a very large undertaking with 100+ soldiers, 5-8 Patriot launcher(s) w/HEMMT's,1- Radar w/HEMMT, 1- Engagement Control Station (ECS) on a 5 Ton truck ,1- EPP (Electric Power Plant) w/HEMMT; towing a fuel trailer, 1- AMG (Antenna mast group) on a 5 ton tuck, 1-2- HEMMT reloaders, 2- HEMMT fuel tankers. That's just a very small part of a basic setup, there is so much other shit you need to properly run the Patriot Missile System. You also need an RSOP (Reconnaissance, Selection and Occupation of Position) team to scout and prepare the location in advance, which isn't just saying put it over there. Proper distances between equipment is critical, terrain is critical, I'd have to write for hours the amount of shit that is needed just to sling one missile at an airliner. It takes approximately a hour to emplace a Patriot Missile System, a good battery can do it in just under 45 minutes, but the real magic happens in the van (ECS), that's where the radar screens are monitored, and the pretty fireworks are controlled (for those that were edumacated in public schools). Without skilled 14E's, formerly 24E - E=Echo), you couldn't understand shit from shinola in the van.
My description above is with a high speed U.S. Army trained & meshed Patriot Battery. Teaching that shit to anyone from the Middle East (Israel not included), takes months, many, many months (cough, cough year ). The Germans have a better setup than the U.S. does, but they have equipment issues that would make it a little difficult in the Middle East.
My point is, you can give ISIS an entire Patriot Battery's equipment, with every manual written in Arabic, and I bet my life they couldn't get it done right in under six months. My personal belief is it would take them a year. IMHO, MEADS is a better system. Could you train 5 people with 500 Million dollars to do it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 7:43:29 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do folks really think MANPADS can reach that far? I think people may not know the difference between MANPAD's and SAM's. If I remember correctly, the max altitude of any MANPAD was less than 30k AGL. (Don't quote me on that though.) |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 7:50:09 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The idea was floated after 9/11, even though 9/11 had nothing to do with surface to air missiles. Finally some experts stepped in and pointed out that the defense systems would cost more than the planes they would be mounted on. Additional things complicating the idea today: - Do you think poorer European and Asian airlines can afford them? US airlines couldn't even afford it. - Just don't fly over war zones that contain anti-air missiles wielded by who knows who.
- Have there been more than two instances of this in the last two decades? It's not a problem that needs a solution. Probably a better solution is that when you have to fly over a war zone, you take the hit to fuel economy and fly an extra 5000 or 8000 feet higher to decrease the chance of anything being able to hit you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Regardless these airliners need defensive counter measures in today's world. The idea was floated after 9/11, even though 9/11 had nothing to do with surface to air missiles. Finally some experts stepped in and pointed out that the defense systems would cost more than the planes they would be mounted on. Additional things complicating the idea today: - Do you think poorer European and Asian airlines can afford them? US airlines couldn't even afford it. - Just don't fly over war zones that contain anti-air missiles wielded by who knows who.
- Have there been more than two instances of this in the last two decades? It's not a problem that needs a solution. Probably a better solution is that when you have to fly over a war zone, you take the hit to fuel economy and fly an extra 5000 or 8000 feet higher to decrease the chance of anything being able to hit you. FedEx was testing out a missile defense pod on a MD-11 a few years back. It was removed after a year or so. I don't know what became of that project. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 7:58:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TLDR WARNING: You just don't ship and shoot Patriot missiles, it's a very large undertaking with 100+ soldiers, 5-8 Patriot launcher(s) w/HEMMT's,1- Radar w/HEMMT, 1- Engagement Control Station (ECS) on a 5 Ton truck ,1- EPP (Electric Power Plant) w/HEMMT; towing a fuel trailer, 1- AMG (Antenna mast group) on a 5 ton tuck, 1-2- HEMMT reloaders, 2- HEMMT fuel tankers. That's just a very small part of a basic setup, there is so much other shit you need to properly run the Patriot Missile System. You also need an RSOP (Reconnaissance, Selection and Occupation of Position) team to scout and prepare the location in advance, which isn't just saying put it over there. Proper distances between equipment is critical, terrain is critical, I'd have to write for hours the amount of shit that is needed just to sling one missile at an airliner. It takes approximately a hour to emplace a Patriot Missile System, a good battery can do it in just under 45 minutes, but the real magic happens in the van (ECS), that's where the radar screens are monitored, and the pretty fireworks are controlled (for those that were edumacated in public schools). Without skilled 14E's, formerly 24E - E=Echo), you couldn't understand shit from shinola in the van.
My description above is with a high speed U.S. Army trained & meshed Patriot Battery. Teaching that shit to anyone from the Middle East (Israel not included), takes months, many, many months (cough, cough year ). The Germans have a better setup than the U.S. does, but they have equipment issues that would make it a little difficult in the Middle East.
My point is, you can give ISIS an entire Patriot Battery's equipment, with every manual written in Arabic, and I bet my life they couldn't get it done right in under six months. My personal belief is it would take them a year. IMHO, MEADS is a better system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
TLDR WARNING: Quoted:
He was shipping them Patriot missiles? You just don't ship and shoot Patriot missiles, it's a very large undertaking with 100+ soldiers, 5-8 Patriot launcher(s) w/HEMMT's,1- Radar w/HEMMT, 1- Engagement Control Station (ECS) on a 5 Ton truck ,1- EPP (Electric Power Plant) w/HEMMT; towing a fuel trailer, 1- AMG (Antenna mast group) on a 5 ton tuck, 1-2- HEMMT reloaders, 2- HEMMT fuel tankers. That's just a very small part of a basic setup, there is so much other shit you need to properly run the Patriot Missile System. You also need an RSOP (Reconnaissance, Selection and Occupation of Position) team to scout and prepare the location in advance, which isn't just saying put it over there. Proper distances between equipment is critical, terrain is critical, I'd have to write for hours the amount of shit that is needed just to sling one missile at an airliner. It takes approximately a hour to emplace a Patriot Missile System, a good battery can do it in just under 45 minutes, but the real magic happens in the van (ECS), that's where the radar screens are monitored, and the pretty fireworks are controlled (for those that were edumacated in public schools). Without skilled 14E's, formerly 24E - E=Echo), you couldn't understand shit from shinola in the van.
My description above is with a high speed U.S. Army trained & meshed Patriot Battery. Teaching that shit to anyone from the Middle East (Israel not included), takes months, many, many months (cough, cough year ). The Germans have a better setup than the U.S. does, but they have equipment issues that would make it a little difficult in the Middle East.
My point is, you can give ISIS an entire Patriot Battery's equipment, with every manual written in Arabic, and I bet my life they couldn't get it done right in under six months. My personal belief is it would take them a year. IMHO, MEADS is a better system. You only need one launcher, you don't need an AMG, and you sure as hell don't need a separate RSOP team - the radar will emplace automatically with GPS, no survey needed. Not that I'm giving credence to the GDerp here, but you are being a bit disingenuous. 2 people with one HEMMT prime mover for the trailer-based platforms could get a missile fired. You'd just have to drive each component into place separately, and spend more time than you might want. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 8:01:09 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Horse shit they shot it down, nothing that they have or even know how to operate can hit something that high. The airliner went down to mechanical failure, with the remote chance a bomb was on board and that was what took it down. Not to mention they knew which plane was carrying a bunch of Russians? I'm not qualified to comment on the air defense missile systems, and I'm also not a professional analyst. A bomb on board would likely be much more within their operational capabilities. Assuming the airplane in the video is the Russian airliner, why would someone zoom in on a random airliner beyond the range of getting a clear picture and follow it? Because they knew something was going to happen to it. How it happened is a topic for debate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 8:03:42 AM EDT
[#49]
...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/1/2015 8:24:16 AM EDT
[#50]
So is Russia reacting like it was an ISIS incident? This could be used as a good excuse on their part to expand the war.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
