My point, then I'm outta here.  Think about it logically:

It's harder being black in this country- no one seems to dispute that, and no has volunteered for it, so there must be something undesireable about it.

It seems to boil down to two explanations for why it's harder.  Either it's "their fault," or it's "society's fault".  There are enough examples on both sides of the arguement to conclude that it is not absolutely one or the other.  

It must be a combination of both.  If you refuse to see that, it's only because you don't want to.

So, in the end, you have to figure out which part is "their fault," and which part is "society's fault"?  

   My experience is that black folks tend to hate themselves and have serious self esteem probs.  Maybe thats why they have ebony and bet and such, to counter their own feelings of inferiority.  As axed me by a black female friend (in my reserve unit), "why do white people have different hair/eye color, different noses and lips and such and 'we' all look the same?"  

i dont think what they do is right, just a different way to look at it

GOOD GOD MAN!!!do you know that YOU ARE A LIBERAL DEMOCRAP? You sound just like one. NOBODY can hold a man back from achieving his goals and objectives regardless of that mans color. If you think society is responsible than YOU have bigger issues!

No matter what color I am I will prevail and achieve my goals. Its really VERY SIMPLE!! JUST DO IT!!

umm, Tunisia isn't a black nation, it's an Arab Nation that's quite the melting pot. It's not even uncommon to see redheads there. For "Black Africa", you have to go south of the Sahara.
Black Africa is a nightmare, due in part to the political boundaries drawn up by the colonial powers that didn't recognize tribal boundaries. I spent 2 years in Chad and in retrospect, it's amazing I didn't get my ass killed over there.
BTDT, got the t-shirt.

Lock me please.

[your IM is full, your request to have your account locked has been sent to staff for action - Paul]

Ebony and Ivory living together in perfect harmony........

The "Turner Diaries" has something like this in it. You say the wrong thing feel unashamed about being white and you are labled a racist and that is the most unsavory thing to be identified as!

Call me a racist if ya want but if being White and proud of my bloodline makes me racist thank you very much!

I will wear that label with PRIDE.

IBTL

As one of the few Blacks here I'm going to bring another viewpoint.

Ebony magazine was founded over 50 years ago.  Some of you all might remember that Blacks not only had different magazines at the time they had different restaurants, neighborhoods, churches, colleges etc. And White people wanted it that way.  

So why does Ebony still exist when times are better? Because when you are dealing with millions of people and centuries of hating each other, it won't clear up 2 generations after the Civil Rights Movement. Kids are still being raised by parents or Grandparents on both sides that went through that crap. I was taught to be extremely careful not to be put in a position where I could be accused of stealing or checking out a white girl and told lots of horror stories. Hopefully I won't pass as much of that onto my kids.

As far as a magazine called Ivory, as long as the focus isn't on killing Blacks (like your average hate group rally) I could live with it.
You will have a hard time getting other Blacks to believe it but that's because a lot of people who are vocal about their whiteness Like to talk about 'shippin' 'em all back to Africa."

Somebody asked earlier on why a White man can't say ni**er without being accused of racism and a Black man can say it.  That's pretty simple, it's what you mean when you say it. I've seen White men say it in a room full of Black men but his friendship was without question.  If you are saying it with a sheet on your head..or with that attitude..you are going to get trouble. I don't like the word..I don't say it to anyone..trust me you aren't missing anything.

Hope this helps

See what I mean???? A grown man that is too afraid to write the word "nigger". But it's not your fault CJ you have been conditioned that way. White people are called all types of racist words like whitey, cracker, honky and more on T.V. all the time and its considered funny. A white person can't even say the word "nigger" he has to act like a child and say "THE N WORD" while he acts like he is in fear that even that will "offend" a black person. Look, the only way I would call a black person a nigger is if they got racist with me first. If I'm talking about racist things with other people I say "nigger". I didn't call anyone a "nigger" I just said the word "nigger".

Stand up for yourself and what's right.

CJ, posting again just to let ya know that I wasn't slamming you. You are right on the money. But hay, write the word "nigger" and let the shit fall where it may.

Uh, thanks.

I just wanted to be damned sure that I wouldn't get the topic locked or worse, my account, over the use of the word.     It seems like it's possibly the most risky word I can use within the entire English language.    I can call someone a shit faced cockmaster and it won't raise an eyebrow.  But it is with great trepidation that I stick my toe into the water, hoping it's not actually near-boiling peanut oil at 700 degrees Farenheit, and dare to say the word nigger in any context.

There.  I did it.  Am I a free man now?  [:D]]

Now that the ice has been broken and I didn't burn my damned foot off,  I'll come right out and say it:   In my mind,  I classify individual black people as either neutral (I have no opinion of them as they have given me no evidence of their decision making skills or history),  black, (a simple description for those lacking any overtly negative character traits as far as I know),  and, yes,  niggers.  They are the ones that I consider to be the bad ones. The ones who give black people a bad name.   Equivalent to white trash, or worse.  The hoodlums, gangsters, gangsters-in-training,  uneducated, (and uninterested in changing that),  etc.   The ones who feel at home in jail because they've been there so much.

You have to EARN that appellation with me.  I don't assume that anyone is bad to start with. Those who prove they are, by my standards, get moved to the white trash or nigger pile, and there is no other way to get there.  And it's hard to get out once you're in.

I have a derogatory term to describe any ethnic group's worst members.  I only use it to describe those worst members, and only to myself or with a very select few people who I know have the same general attitudes and opinions.   I know of just TWO people in my circle of friends who are sufficiently resistant to the disease of political correctness to call a spade a spade.
And yes,  I know that has its origins as an ethnic descriptor or slur as well.   I'm of Southern extraction, (both parents were born in the south) and I know my way around the southern ways of speaking that are no longer acceptable in "polite" society,  though I don't use them much.

I still don't like using that particular word, not even here and within this discussion, because I reserve its use for some very nasty people who, quite frankly,  I wouldn't chose to save if their lives were in danger.    And I'd hate for anyone to think that I was applying the term in a broader sense to most if not all black people.  
And undoubtedly, there ARE some people who would think I am thinking like that.   They're wrong, but I can't convince them, so it's better that I simply not get them started by keeping my mouth shut on that and some other words.

Heck, look at my avatar.  James Earl Jones?  Yeah, man!  One of my favorite actors, and one of the most respected in Hollywood and elsewhere, too.   Yet if I were any whiter, I'd be blonde,
despite the small percentage of American Indian (and by extension, Asian) blood in me.

And Asian, by extension, is middle Eastern, which, by extension, is African.  So in the ultimate sense, I'm of black extraction as probably all of us are, since the Cradle of Man wasn't exactly located in Sweden but rather Africa.

CJ

Well I live in Texas now, but I've only been here from Yankee land for a little over a year. The people I work with now use the "N" word all the time. At 1st it did kind of shock me, but I began to see that they had broken it down into using it for the baser groups of black people. The same as saying someone is white trash. I even heard on guy tell someone one the phone he'd better get his black ass down to our office, & make his payment. I think being from the liberal north had conditioned me to be sensitive to the word nigger, but I understand the people I work with & what they mean by it & I am no longer shocked when I hear them use it. I however don't use that term, & probably never will. I use the word black when referring to Negroes, but to tell the truth it is very confusing to me, & many other white folks as to what to say without angering someone of that race. Negro was acceptable when I was a kid growing up, then blacks, now it's afro American. Wouldn't it be a hoot if we made blacks always refer to us as Euro Americans, or Caucasians, or whites, & we could get angry no matter which word they choose.[lol]
Voodoochile made some good points, but I wonder what the rest of the black community would think if there was a magazine called Ivory, & it was about being white.
As far as the argument that life, in these here United States of America has been unfair to the minorities, I say this. People are where they are because of the life choices they have made. If blacks want to speak in their own ethnic language so be it, don't blame me if they don't get into a college or group that they would like to be part of. It's their own fault for not learning how to fit in to a society that is by a huge % not black, or interested in acting like their part of the black community.
Every group has it's rules, & if you don't follow the rules you won't fit in. It's pretty freaking simple really. I just don't like it when a minority trys to tell the majority how they must behave, & then does the total oppisit of their rule, & hey it's totaly oj, errr, I mean ok.

#1) All the examples cited took advantage of affirmative action programs.
(We were discussing "acesess" to power, not whether or not they had actually made it on their own..[:D])

#2) Tunisia, is NOT a black Nation.

Next??? [:D]

It's even MORE undesireable to be a Black in ANY BLACK nation on the planet!! ALL of them wanna come here.

What a horrid country America is for Blacks...And everybody else too for that matter!! [rolleyes]

Have ya noticed how many Blacks are LEAVING America for their "Homeland"??   [:P]

(Fucking Communists!)

Excuse me I forgot... but when is White History Month?

It's the other eleven months.

It starts right after the fake holiday that somebody made up, known as Kwanzaa, which in Swahili translates to "I'm a whiner and I don't want to admit that we have no valid African holidays."

CJ

A bit back on topic, [url=http://www.natall.com/national-vanguard/119/index.html] National Vanguard[/url] is about as close as you will ever get to an intelligent magazine written exclusively for the white population.

But I doubt you'll find it at your local supermarket any time soon, unlike Ebony or Black Tail  [%|]

Ya, I'll pick it up when I get my next edition of Jesse Jacksons "Rainbow News".

Only difference between SOME Nazis, is COLOR!!

Jerkoff.....

My youngest sister had a friend, who several years ago, wore a T-shirt to high school that said "It's a white thing.....you wouldn't understand". She was expelled from school. The Fad at that time was shirts that said "it's a black thing..."

Ever notice how Chef on Southpark can call the kids his "little crackers" while whites on Southpark can't call Chef their "nigger?"

So tell us, Liberty86, what have you done to change the situation of which you are obviously so impassioned?

Well, for starters, I don't post ANONOMOUSLY, on the internet!! If you figger you can't ID yourself, you wanna ask ME for info?? Try the little "user info" button, top left of my post..

You can take National SOCIALISM, and stick it where the sun don't shine..yer as bad as the fucking communists.

Because that would require logic and fairness be applied to the issue of "race" relations in the United States.

The NAACP and the rest of their ilk would rather have Al-Qaeda nuke every major city in the United States rather than allow those two things into the argument.

Remember, only in America are you a RACIST if you belong to the NAAWP, but are an ACTIVIST if you belong to the NAACP.

Flame on if you want. You know it'll still be the TRUTH when you finish....

Well, I suppose that's a start.

So, let's see - the thread begins with the topic of why can't whites have the same things afforded to blacks (e.g., a magazine).  Liberty86 posts several good comments about the racial situation in the US today.  

I post a reference to a pro-white magazine, and Liberty86 says, in effect, that I'm a nazi and a jerkoff for even referring to that magazine.

Does anyone wonder why we are in this situation?  Even white people hate pro-white groups, magazines, i.e., Liberty86.  Conditioning at its finest.

Oh, and good comment about arguing on the Internet.  Reminded me what an excercise in futility this is, so I'm gonna go enjoy the sunshine instead.  Have fun hating everyone.

Did I say anything about being against pro-white orgs??? No.

You provided a link to a Nazi rag.

Nazis are socialists.

I HATE Socialists. I HATE communists.

I HATE NAZIS!   [xx(]

[b]La Raza![/b]

AMAN CANNIBAL!
Even Whites call you racist if you are pro-white.

Blach. Seriously, guys, you sound like a bunch of kindergartners who don't want to do anything more than wallow in mud and shout "nasty" words.
"I'm not a racist, but I want to say nigger!" Well, great. Tourette's Syndrome _is_ a reality, and if that's your only chip on your shoulder there should be mild medication out there to fix that.
Are you guys such a bunch of fucking losers that you don't realize that White people are still the top of the fucking food chain?
"But if I can't say 'nigger' my freedom of speech is at risk!" Bullshit. You can go down into the middle of the MFing projects and shout "nigger" all you want.
"But all those blue-gums are becoming all uppity and they talk funny and take our stuff."
Well, work harder and smarter, and it's not like your trailer was worth shit to begin with.

Give it a fucking rest already, I dunno what's worse anymore, some Black people whining about how da man's keepin a brudda down, or you lot just whining in general.

And 98% arab.

Todays History test,  Where does the word nigger come from?  

I'll post what I believe the right answer is later on tonight.

You might want to consider some feedback loops--i.e., black behavior (high crime, poor school performance, etc.) feeds "society's" prejudice, and this prejudice fuels black behavior (although not in a simplistic symetric way).

I think I'd rather "read" Black Tail, anyway.