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Posted: 7/23/2020 5:04:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Once I got everything drilled out, I welded some nuts on the inside of the tube.
The bolts along with the ends of the rivets locate the chain in between the tube and the plate. The holes in the plate let me push the rivets out with an air hammer.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/23/2020 7:48:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Changing gears. I'm building two sheaths. Lately most of my knives have been roughly the same shape and size, so I can use the same pattern for most of them, which makes things easy.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 7/30/2020 11:33:16 PM EDT
[#3]
One sheath is all done. I'm not going to finish the second one right now, as the next knife is going to get kydex.
 Attached FileThese are the next ones.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/2/2020 8:16:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Got these all cleaned up and handle holes drilled (including one that was meant to be 1/8" that I drilled out to 1/4" as a brain fart. I decided to be done working on stuff for the night after that. Lol). Now I'm thermal cycling and hopefully getting them hardened and tempered once today.
 Attached FileI have to say, thermal cycling and heat treating is probably my least favorite part. |
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Posted: 8/2/2020 11:06:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Why? Shouldn't that be the easiest part now that you have the process dialed in?
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Posted: 8/3/2020 12:06:44 AM EDT
[#6]
It's not "difficult", per say. My kiln is a little slow to heat and the thermal cycling is a little tedious and requires a little bit of attention. Because you have to time the cycles from when the oven comes back up to temp , I have to babysit it then pull the blades out after the allotted time at temp (15 minutes in this case), then set the new temp, let it stabilize, put the blades in, let it come back to temp and then start the time.
I just finished austenitizing these three. I'm still hoping to get a temper cycle in tonight but my oven is still 250°c above where I want it so I may wait until tomorrow because I don't want to be up all night waiting to pull the plug on the oven after the two hour cycle. (stupid day job. Lol) Here I've quenched, let them cool enough to handle, ground the burned junk off of the blades and broken the sharp 90° corner where the edge will be and tested the steel with my hardness chisels. These ones all skated the 64 HRC chisel, and the called for hardness as quenched is 64-65, so I'm calling it a success at this point.  Attached File2/3 of them have a warp that I'll have to deal with after the first temper. This is about normal for me. Most of my blades come out of HT warped. I currently fix it with a set of "blade breaker" jaws that I made for my vise, but I want to pick up some cheap c clamps that I don't mind baking at 400°f so I can try the clamp trick that kuraki showed us several pages ago. |
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Posted: 8/3/2020 9:53:44 PM EDT
[#7]
 Attached FileI just pulled these out from a 3 hour temper @204°c(400f) and checked them with the chisels again. The 60 can't decide if it wants to skate or bite in and the 62 bites in. By the recipe they should be 60-61rc. I think I'm right in there. |
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Posted: 8/3/2020 10:26:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Nice.
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Posted: 8/4/2020 12:22:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Are you quenching those in oil or water? You said they are 1084?
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Posted: 8/4/2020 12:36:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Correct. They are 1084, quenched in peanut oil.
A bigger quench tank and some parks 50 are very near the top of the list of things to upgrade. |
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Posted: 8/4/2020 12:54:58 PM EDT
[#11]
If you switched to a higher hardenability steel (like O1), you could quench them much less severely and still achieve full hardness. O1 is provide a lot more time once you cool below AC3 temperature before you start forming undesirable pearlite. I think 1084 is only about 2 seconds or so. If you are vigorously agitating them in the oil, one side of the blade could transform to martensite sooner than the other, and consequently bend the blade (since martensite is less dense than the other microstructures, it expands). O1 can also be martempered pretty easily (for a hobbyist) in molten salt. You might be able to martemper 1084, but I have not tried it.
The way you have them fixtured in the kiln also might be inducing distortion - the knives on either end look like they are receiving a full broadside of radiative energy on one side only. I know that industrial heat treating in furnaces requires some forethought and institutional knowledge as to how parts are fixtured and how close they are to one another to minimize distortion. There are thermal stresses and stresses caused by microstructural volume changes that can cause distortion. Molten salt doesn't really have any of those problems, at least not for small parts of simple geometry. |
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Posted: 8/4/2020 1:13:38 PM EDT
[#12]
In the kiln they sit on the spine, supported by little pieces of kiln furniture.
They might look funny because I ground most of the decarb off of the blades in order to use my harness testing chisels. ETA:. I see what you are talking about, having the blades lined up in the kiln that way. I wish I'd have paid attention to which two warped. I'd surprised if it wasn't the outside two. I guess I never really thought about that. I just figured that the whole inside of the oven got up to temp so it'd be ok. Any suggestions on how to better position the knives in the kiln? I'm trying to work in small batches to be more efficient. I like the idea of salt baths, but it's probably not something I'll get into any time soon. I have used a few feet of O1 in the past, and I have another bar. I'll probably use it a little bit more in the future. I bought the 1084 because at the time I was using a propane forge to austenitize my steel and I was told that 1084 was the most tolerant of "backyard" heat treat methods. I probably won't stop using 1084, but I am shopping for other steels to use. |
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Posted: 8/4/2020 2:11:08 PM EDT
[#13]
A 2
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Posted: 8/4/2020 2:25:09 PM EDT
[#14]
1084 doesn't have any strong carbide-forming elements, so I think austenitizing it for 30 seconds is adequate. O1, being a tool steel, has some strong carbide-forming elements (tungsten, chrome, sometimes vanadium) so it needs to soak at the austenitizing temperature for 10-30 minutes. So it's a little trickier, especially since you don't really know when the knife actually reaches the austenitizing temperature.
As far as fixturing the knives - I think I would either hang them vertically from some kind of fixture using stainless steel wire, or hold them in the same way you do now, except have them each in their own fixture, and arranged so that both sides of every knife can "see" the heating elements. Full disclosure: I have never made a knife before in my life, but I have made and heat-treated other precision components that benefit from distortion-control. |
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Posted: 8/4/2020 7:38:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1084 doesn't have any strong carbide-forming elements, so I think austenitizing it for 30 seconds is adequate. O1, being a tool steel, has some strong carbide-forming elements (tungsten, chrome, sometimes vanadium) so it needs to soak at the austenitizing temperature for 10-30 minutes. So it's a little trickier, especially since you don't really know when the knife actually reaches the austenitizing temperature. As far as fixturing the knives - I think I would either hang them vertically from some kind of fixture using stainless steel wire, or hold them in the same way you do now, except have them each in their own fixture, and arranged so that both sides of every knife can "see" the heating elements. Full disclosure: I have never made a knife before in my life, but I have made and heat-treated other precision components that benefit from distortion-control. The supplier calls for a 5-15 minute soak at the aus. temp. on the 1084, so I've been using 7 minutes. My concern is, as you said, you don't really know when the knife is up to temp. My process is to let the kiln come up to the aus. temp. and sit for about an hour so the kiln is "saturated" for lack of a better word and will recover more quickly from opening it to put the blades in. Then I put the blades in and watch the pid and start my 7 minute soak time once the temp has recovered. Wrt the fixturing, I'll have to think about how to get that done. I like the idea of hanging the blades, as that would give me more usable space in the kiln. The thermocouple is kind of right in the way for setting stuff in there. Hanging would also be nicer because I wouldn't have to reach into the kiln to pull blades out. If the blades are hanging they'd still need to "see" the elements from both sides, correct? What about blocking them on all sides, like with kiln shelf walls or something? Thanks for the help! |
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Posted: 8/4/2020 7:51:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 2  Maybe |
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Posted: 8/4/2020 8:51:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The supplier calls for a 5-15 minute soak at the aus. temp. on the 1084, so I've been using 7 minutes. My concern is, as you said, you don't really know when the knife is up to temp. My process is to let the kiln come up to the aus. temp. and sit for about an hour so the kiln is "saturated" for lack of a better word and will recover more quickly from opening it to put the blades in. Then I put the blades in and watch the pid and start my 7 minute soak time once the temp has recovered. Wrt the fixturing, I'll have to think about how to get that done. I like the idea of hanging the blades, as that would give me more usable space in the kiln. The thermocouple is kind of right in the way for setting stuff in there. Hanging would also be nicer because I wouldn't have to reach into the kiln to pull blades out. If the blades are hanging they'd still need to "see" the elements from both sides, correct? What about blocking them on all sides, like with kiln shelf walls or something? Thanks for the help! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 1084 doesn't have any strong carbide-forming elements, so I think austenitizing it for 30 seconds is adequate. O1, being a tool steel, has some strong carbide-forming elements (tungsten, chrome, sometimes vanadium) so it needs to soak at the austenitizing temperature for 10-30 minutes. So it's a little trickier, especially since you don't really know when the knife actually reaches the austenitizing temperature. As far as fixturing the knives - I think I would either hang them vertically from some kind of fixture using stainless steel wire, or hold them in the same way you do now, except have them each in their own fixture, and arranged so that both sides of every knife can "see" the heating elements. Full disclosure: I have never made a knife before in my life, but I have made and heat-treated other precision components that benefit from distortion-control. The supplier calls for a 5-15 minute soak at the aus. temp. on the 1084, so I've been using 7 minutes. My concern is, as you said, you don't really know when the knife is up to temp. My process is to let the kiln come up to the aus. temp. and sit for about an hour so the kiln is "saturated" for lack of a better word and will recover more quickly from opening it to put the blades in. Then I put the blades in and watch the pid and start my 7 minute soak time once the temp has recovered. Wrt the fixturing, I'll have to think about how to get that done. I like the idea of hanging the blades, as that would give me more usable space in the kiln. The thermocouple is kind of right in the way for setting stuff in there. Hanging would also be nicer because I wouldn't have to reach into the kiln to pull blades out. If the blades are hanging they'd still need to "see" the elements from both sides, correct? What about blocking them on all sides, like with kiln shelf walls or something? Thanks for the help! I would put the knives in there while the kiln is cold, and let the knives come up to temperature with the kiln. That is how parts are heat-treated in an industrial setting. The thermocouple issue kind of goes back to the reason why I originally started pestering you in the first place (LOL) - what is the thermocouple measuring? The air temperature? There is hardly any air in there, and the kiln transfers heat mostly by radiant energy, not by convection. Vacuum furnaces are common in industrial heat treating - they suck all the air out to prevent the parts from decarburizing. Bringing the parts up to temperature is a controlled process that may take hours, as some steels - especially tool steels - are susceptible to distortion due to thermal gradients. Increasing time and increasing temperature both cause grain growth, although it is overwhelming temperature that causes it. There is a neat little chart on page 68 of this book that demonstrates that: Metallurgy of Steel for Bladesmiths and Others who Heat Treat and Forge Steel (BY VERHOEVEN) I buy "precision ground O1 tool steel" from McMaster-Carr, which came in a wrapper indicating it was purchased from Starret. The package said it contained 0.2% vanadium, which serves as a grain-refiner and a grain-growth inhibitor (vanadium is optional in that alloy). My understanding is that vanadium carbide is NOT intended to dissolve, and indeed it would take quite a long time at an elevated temperature for it to do so. So, I would not be concerned about letting that particular piece of steel at the soak temperature for an hour, although I have absolutely no reason to do so in molten salt. Molybdenum has a similar effect, so letting (for example) S7 tool steel, which contains over 1% molybdenum, soak at its austenitizing temperature for 45 minutes wouldn't be a problem at all. |
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Posted: 8/4/2020 9:01:35 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 8/4/2020 9:37:50 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 8/4/2020 11:00:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would put the knives in there while the kiln is cold, and let the knives come up to temperature with the kiln. That is how parts are heat-treated in an industrial setting. The thermocouple issue kind of goes back to the reason why I originally started pestering you in the first place (LOL) - what is the thermocouple measuring? The air temperature? There is hardly any air in there, and the kiln transfers heat mostly by radiant energy, not by convection. Vacuum furnaces are common in industrial heat treating - they suck all the air out to prevent the parts from decarburizing. Bringing the parts up to temperature is a controlled process that may take hours, as some steels - especially tool steels - are susceptible to distortion due to thermal gradients. This is the information from the supplier that I purchased this batch of steel from. They specifically say not to let the steel come up to temp with the kiln. I don't understand why they would suggest something different than the traditional industrial method.  Attached FileI suppose the thermocouple is only measuring air, or the temperature of the ceramic insulation on the thermocouple, which would soak up the radiant energy from the coils. I have seen some steels that have specific pre heat steps.(heat to X° no faster than X° per hour, equalize then heat to X° as fast as possible and soak for X minutes). I'm staying away from those at this point in time. I am thinking about trying one of the coatings to try to cut down on the decarb.(though if I take the cow's advice and use A2, I'll have to use a foil wrap) |
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Posted: 8/4/2020 11:07:50 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 8/4/2020 11:09:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Huh. That's strange. I don't know what the reason is for not putting it in the kiln while it is cold. Why do you need to use foil wrap with A2?
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Posted: 8/4/2020 11:19:33 PM EDT
[#23]
The foil wrap is to stop the decarb, I'm guessing.
This is from the same supplier that I bought my 1084 from.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/5/2020 12:11:17 AM EDT
[#24]
Here's where I'm stopping on this one.
Hand sanded 220 grit flats and 400 grit belt finish on the bevels. .020 on the edge.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/7/2020 9:44:32 PM EDT
[#25]
 Attached File#2 done. Almost a full height grind and probably a little too thin on the edge(.005"). I'll probably beat on it some more before it goes to it's new home to make sure it's not going to fail too easily. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 12:32:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Got the last one of the three ground. I'm lazy, so taking the grind all the way to the spine allows me to just use a scotchbrite belt to finish it.
This last one will be my first attempt at screw on scales.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 10:04:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Lazy nothing. On this size knife sliceyness is paramount. Full height grind is superior.
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Posted: 8/9/2020 7:00:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Lazy nothing. On this size knife sliceyness is paramount. Full height grind is superior. I think I agree with you. The thin ones are certainly more fun to use. I'm curious how much(or if) the thickness of the edge effects how long the blade stays sharp since theres less material there. I've just tried something. It'll either be a good idea and work well or it could be disaster. Lol  Attached FileI drilled the pin hole out to 3/32" instead of 1/8" and I needed to soften the steel in order to drill it to the correct size. I almost went after it with a map torch but then I saw my spot welder sitting on the shelf and decided to give it a try. ETA: even though it changed the color of the steel it didn't soften it enough to drill. Oh well, I thought it might be worth a shot. Being able to pinpoint heat like that would be pretty cool. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 7:25:08 PM EDT
[#29]
 Attached FileCarbide end mill to the rescue. I think I need to buy a couple of carbide drills in my pin and tubing sizes for situations like this, although they might not last long before breaking due to how sloppy my drill press is. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 8:11:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Here's the start on the handles.
I'm still torn between contouring the handle and sanding it really smooth like the last couple I've done and going for the Anso style texture that I've done in the past. I think it could be cool either way.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:12:37 PM EDT
[#31]
This one is on it's way to it's new home this afternoon.
Here's a last pic after a little pre delivery wipe down.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 9:56:35 PM EDT
[#32]
very nice.
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Posted: 8/10/2020 10:03:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Thanks.
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Posted: 8/11/2020 10:13:09 AM EDT
[#34]
Oh, that looks nice! What is that patina on it? Is it just the natural oxide from heat-treating?
You sound like you need an induction heater for spot-annealing - or more like "spot tempering." |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 10:19:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Thank you.
The black one was etched with ferric chloride and stonewashed. As far as the holes go, I need to just be better about planning things so that I don't make mistakes like that. Lol. I'll probably pick up a couple of carbide drills just in case though. |
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Posted: 8/13/2020 12:38:10 AM EDT
[#36]
 Attached FileI decided to go ahead and contour the scales. I've been really liking the way Richlite looks when it's sanded up nice. These are at 600 grit right now. I'll probably go to 800 or 1000 after the handles are glued on. |
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Posted: 8/13/2020 10:06:50 PM EDT
[#37]
 Attached FileThe epoxy is just about cured enough to peel the squeeze out off of the front of the scales, then I'll let it sit and cure overnight. |
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Posted: 8/15/2020 11:28:39 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 8/16/2020 5:33:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Getting closer.
I like kydex because it can be re-formed if you don't get it right the first time (or the fifth time. Lol)  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/16/2020 10:51:37 PM EDT
[#40]
All done except for getting it cleaned up.
It's going to it's new home tomorrow. It's a birthday gift for an 18 year old dude. I don't know if I should be jealous or glad that my parents didn't buy me custom knives when I was 18. Lol  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 8/16/2020 11:20:45 PM EDT
[#41]
cool
your skills are improving nice finished product |
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Posted: 8/17/2020 1:10:28 AM EDT
[#42]
Thank you.
I appreciate it. |
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Posted: 8/20/2020 11:40:22 PM EDT
[#43]
#2 from the batch.
This one is getting some red/brown/black richlite. I'm going to try for the knapped/stone texture on the handles to show off the colors.  Attached FileThis is one that I got a little crazy when grinding the primary bevels and it ended up thinner than I'd normally go. I'm thinking that I'll probably keep this one and beat it a bit, just to see how it holds up. I have a steel order coming next week. They were out of 3/32" 1084 so I ordered 1095 instead. It looks like the HT schedule is very similar to the 1084 so I figured I'd give it a go. I also grabbed a bar of 3/16" 80crV2 for the next project. It's a lot bigger than any of my previous knives. I'm pretty excited to try it. |
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Posted: 8/23/2020 1:31:46 AM EDT
[#44]
A new (to me) tool showed up today.
 Attached FileI picked this up from a guy on offer up today. I jumped on it probably a little too quickly, as I don't know anything about these. At this point, as far as I can tell, I'm missing the weights, the platen and the indenter. I also think that there may be something going on with the cylinder on the left side of the machine, but I don't know what it's supposed to do, so I'm just guessing based on how it acts. I got this for cheap enough that if these parts are as impossible to find as they're looking right now I could maybe make a lamp out of it or something and sell it to recoup my money. Lol I found an indenter on eBay for cheap and I found the weight of the weights on another forum, so maybe I can still get this thing working on the cheap. |
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Posted: 8/29/2020 12:06:41 AM EDT
[#45]
This ended up a little busier than I was hoping for. I don't hate it but I'm not in love with it.
This was also another lesson in having to fight my natural tendency to make patterns. Random is hard. Lol I'm torn between a black leather sheath and a carbon fiber look kydex sheath. I'm only thinking about the CF kydex because it's also busy, so the whole package could be a shit show. Lol  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/29/2020 10:42:03 AM EDT
[#46]
leather
looks fine |
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Posted: 9/1/2020 1:18:12 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This ended up a little busier than I was hoping for. I don't hate it but I'm not in love with it. This was also another lesson in having to fight my natural tendency to make patterns. Random is hard. Lol I'm torn between a black leather sheath and a carbon fiber look kydex sheath. I'm only thinking about the CF kydex because it's also busy, so the whole package could be a shit show. Lol https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/78442/KIMG1239_JPG-1567858.JPG Looks cool OP. |
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Posted: 9/1/2020 7:18:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: leather looks fine Quoted: Looks cool OP. Thanks! I wasn't going to sharpen it until I finished a sheath, but my curiosity got the best of me yesterday. After sharpening it's .010" behind the edge and is awesome so far. Basically all I've cut so far is some arm hair and some paper , but I definitely like the way it cuts. I'm going to beat on it a bit and see how it goes. I think I'm definitely going to start grinding a bit thinner because of this "mistake" though. I've got some 1/16" stock to make some kitchen knives from. I'll probably get pretty crazy on one of those, maybe a zero edge or close to it. |
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Posted: 9/5/2020 11:28:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Yard sale score. I got this weird piece of carbon fiber and the opinel #12 for $15.
The CF will find it's way into something and I'll probably disassemble and clean up the opinel.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 10:40:52 PM EDT
[#50]
 Attached FileNew project. My friend twisted my arm into making him a camp knife. The top is the foam board mock up that I made to show him, the middle one is 3/16" 80CrV2, the bottom was a "why not" idea. It's 1/16" 1084 that I'm going to use in the kitchen. The design is 13" overall with 7.5" of blade. |
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