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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:45:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Congratulations, never too old to learn are we?
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:46:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet.  Was it you guys standing around with you pointing out what you wanted and him taking mental note, or was it you both looking through a set of bid documents and him with a calculator? |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:46:40 PM EDT
[#3]
It's not always wise to hire friends.
You should've entered into the job with a fixed price agreement listing the scope of work and the cost of work, as well as all the boiler plate legal stuff. The contract should've stipulated that any work outside the specified scope of work will not be performed without a signed additional work order. It may take some vigilance, but it's not that difficult to maintain control over the project. If you're feeling overwhelmed, your contractor's communication skills are inadequate. Everything should be in writing. He can hire people to stand around all he wants, as long as he gets the job done for the agreed upon amount, including all additional work/ change orders. If the situation is happening as you described he is not performing ethically or professionally. Hopefully you have been treating this strictly as a business transaction and have all your records in a file. It's easy to negate all irrelevant arguments with the proper paperwork. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:47:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would have a heart to heart talk with him. ask him directly what the differences are and why the estimate doubled when you hung the lights. see what he says, remind him that you already paid him 13K. ask if there was an oversight. This. I been a electrical contractor for 13 years. An estimate is a guess. Probably at the minimum requirements. Not a hard bid. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:49:52 PM EDT
[#5]
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Don't most states have laws that only allow bids to exceed a specific percentage when it comes time for the final bill? No in my experience. But since there wasn't a written contract with a clearly defined scope of work that would probably be a moot point anyway. How it generally works on the commercial side is that you get a set of drawings to bid from. Them there are specs set forth by the general contractor and/or customer of what they require. Things that deviate from the coordinated drawings that require contractors to make changes generally get submitted as a change order that is broken down with additional material costs, additional labor costs, per diem costs, rental costs, and appropriate markups for overhead and profit. Most of the time contractors get paid without too much hassle due to the fact things changed beyond your control. We have had projects with $80,000 worth of change orders just for us due to poor management by the general contractor and/or their engineers making huge mistakes. ETA: on the flip side of that we have had projects that hemorrhaged money we got nothing extra for because there was a contract and everything was outlined in the specs but the estimator didn't read them as carefully as he should have. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:51:59 PM EDT
[#6]
In Ohio it can't be more than 10% of a written estimate. I am sure that varies a lot by state though
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:53:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I been a electrical contractor for 13 years. An estimate is a guess. Probably at the minimum requirements. Not a hard bid. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I would have a heart to heart talk with him. ask him directly what the differences are and why the estimate doubled when you hung the lights. see what he says, remind him that you already paid him 13K. ask if there was an oversight. This. I been a electrical contractor for 13 years. An estimate is a guess. Probably at the minimum requirements. Not a hard bid. An estimate is what you tell someone at the initial meeting, and you include a huge margin for error. I don't like to give estimates because they're always wrong. A proposal is what you send someone after you've calculated all the costs and can present them with a detailed scope of work and a fixed price. A fixed price agreement or contract includes the scope of work and price, as well as all other pertinent legal, warranty, and exclusion information. Don't write any checks or let anyone put a shovel in the ground until you have a signed contract. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:55:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. I would have told him to get fucked, until I read this.... |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:57:56 PM EDT
[#9]
What kind of contract was it? Did you have milestone payment schedule? Is there changes to the project that warranted change orders? You might be best to approach this problem now with your contractor. After the fact it is more difficult. My job is projects and I have built up some solid project controls after getting bit a few times.
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:58:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so he's 500 dollars under the bid............  Is reading really that hard? |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:59:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Ah... just read this. A verbal contract is still enforceable, it's just a far more messy procedure. You're not likely to get all you planned on. Talk to him and see if he's willing to finish for the price asked. GET IT IN WRITING. If not or if he counters with a compromise (more money) you may want to stop the bleeding and look elsewhere. Your call. Lesson learned. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:01:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ask for itemized bill and go from there I will. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:03:37 PM EDT
[#13]
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First thing on tomorrows agenda. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Bids do not always run over. Period. Your friend is not your friend so stop acting as though he is. Wrong. He is my friend. I suspect that his partners are not. Take it up with your "friend" and let him deal with the others. First thing on tomorrows agenda. Tag, for results of friendship test. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:04:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Here's a unique idea. Talk to a lawyer.
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:06:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You did business with a friend? There are 3 electricians in our area. I wouldn't let the other 2 change light bulbs in an outhouse. And yes, I do business with friends all the time. When you live in the middle of nowhere, that's just how it works. This will be resolved and it'll cost me more than I want, and it'll cost them more than they want. I expect a 25% overrun on every project. This one is unacceptable. I will get an itemized bill and go from there. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:06:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP has been drinking too much of his wine. Lock it down Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm assuming the final bill listed the 13k you already paid, and it was stating you owe another 14.5K? Not that the total was 14.5k and they forgot to show the 13k already paid? OP has been drinking too much of his wine. Lock it down Fuck...I just started drinking. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:07:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was it you guys standing around with you pointing out what you wanted and him taking mental note, or was it you both looking through a set of bid documents and him with a calculator? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Was it you guys standing around with you pointing out what you wanted and him taking mental note, or was it you both looking through a set of bid documents and him with a calculator? He had a set of the prints and gave me a bid off of that. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:07:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An estimate is what you tell someone at the initial meeting, and you include a huge margin for error. I don't like to give estimates because they're always wrong. A proposal is what you send someone after you've calculated all the costs and can present them with a detailed scope of work and a fixed price. A fixed price agreement or contract includes the scope of work and price, as well as all other pertinent legal, warranty, and exclusion information. Don't write any checks or let anyone put a shovel in the ground until you have a signed contract. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would have a heart to heart talk with him. ask him directly what the differences are and why the estimate doubled when you hung the lights. see what he says, remind him that you already paid him 13K. ask if there was an oversight. This. I been a electrical contractor for 13 years. An estimate is a guess. Probably at the minimum requirements. Not a hard bid. An estimate is what you tell someone at the initial meeting, and you include a huge margin for error. I don't like to give estimates because they're always wrong. A proposal is what you send someone after you've calculated all the costs and can present them with a detailed scope of work and a fixed price. A fixed price agreement or contract includes the scope of work and price, as well as all other pertinent legal, warranty, and exclusion information. Don't write any checks or let anyone put a shovel in the ground until you have a signed contract. The same advice goes for a contractor. I have had a couple nasty messes due to my predecessor and his vague contracts. They all have been resolved but not without a strain on the relationship and a lot of headaches. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:08:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pepper your angus then............ Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Pepper your angus then............ That. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:11:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah... just read this. A verbal contract is still enforceable, it's just a far more messy procedure. You're not likely to get all you planned on. Talk to him and see if he's willing to finish for the price asked. GET IT IN WRITING. If not or if he counters with a compromise (more money) you may want to stop the bleeding and look elsewhere. Your call. Lesson learned. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Ah... just read this. A verbal contract is still enforceable, it's just a far more messy procedure. You're not likely to get all you planned on. Talk to him and see if he's willing to finish for the price asked. GET IT IN WRITING. If not or if he counters with a compromise (more money) you may want to stop the bleeding and look elsewhere. Your call. Lesson learned. He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:12:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same advice goes for a contractor. I have had a couple nasty messes due to my predecessor and his vague contracts. They all have been resolved but not without a strain on the relationship and a lot of headaches. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would have a heart to heart talk with him. ask him directly what the differences are and why the estimate doubled when you hung the lights. see what he says, remind him that you already paid him 13K. ask if there was an oversight. This. I been a electrical contractor for 13 years. An estimate is a guess. Probably at the minimum requirements. Not a hard bid. An estimate is what you tell someone at the initial meeting, and you include a huge margin for error. I don't like to give estimates because they're always wrong. A proposal is what you send someone after you've calculated all the costs and can present them with a detailed scope of work and a fixed price. A fixed price agreement or contract includes the scope of work and price, as well as all other pertinent legal, warranty, and exclusion information. Don't write any checks or let anyone put a shovel in the ground until you have a signed contract. The same advice goes for a contractor. I have had a couple nasty messes due to my predecessor and his vague contracts. They all have been resolved but not without a strain on the relationship and a lot of headaches. Of course... a detailed agreement in writing benefits both parties. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:14:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Are you saying he's roughly double his estimate?
First, estimate or bid? You've established "rough estimate" so you did not bid it competitively and there's a verbal agreement. You're fucked. Second, why the fuck would you do that? "They don't do that around here?" Bullshit. I have customers in your part of the country who employ electricians and I guarantee they would not settle for that. FWIW I have 4 journeyman electricians reporting to me and am responsible for a $1 million dollar building addition we built this year and not one single portion of it ran double the estimated cost. Either your friend is incompetent, or dishonest. There is not another explanation. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:14:57 PM EDT
[#23]
You're getting fucked over because electricians. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives.
Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:15:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Ah... just read this. A verbal contract is still enforceable, it's just a far more messy procedure. You're not likely to get all you planned on. Talk to him and see if he's willing to finish for the price asked. GET IT IN WRITING. If not or if he counters with a compromise (more money) you may want to stop the bleeding and look elsewhere. Your call. Lesson learned. He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. Yours and his whole program out there sounds whacked. There is no reason for any of this over or under bullshit. A scope of work is agreed upon and the costs are calculated, a price is presented and both parties sign. Done. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:17:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're getting fucked over because electricians people. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives. Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. Fixed, hope you don't mind. Your second statement eh... there is a bit more to it than you describe. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:17:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He had a set of the prints and gave me a bid off of that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Was it you guys standing around with you pointing out what you wanted and him taking mental note, or was it you both looking through a set of bid documents and him with a calculator? He had a set of the prints and gave me a bid off of that. So his quote should have been at least close since he had all the necessary info. That far off is terrible... Definitely ask for an itemized bill! Good luck |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:19:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're getting fucked over because electricians. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives. Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. It's all MC cable inside the wall. They knew that though. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:19:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So his quote should have been at least close since he had all the necessary info. That far off is terrible... Definitely ask for an itemized bill! Good luck Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Was it you guys standing around with you pointing out what you wanted and him taking mental note, or was it you both looking through a set of bid documents and him with a calculator? He had a set of the prints and gave me a bid off of that. So his quote should have been at least close since he had all the necessary info. That far off is terrible... Definitely ask for an itemized bill! Good luck His quote should've been exact. The only causes for it to change are either concealed conditions or owners request. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:19:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Ah... just read this. A verbal contract is still enforceable, it's just a far more messy procedure. You're not likely to get all you planned on. Talk to him and see if he's willing to finish for the price asked. GET IT IN WRITING. If not or if he counters with a compromise (more money) you may want to stop the bleeding and look elsewhere. Your call. Lesson learned. He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. And you are SURE that the most recent invoice is on top of your $13K payment? |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:19:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Pay him the rest using cash in an envelope
Stuff a random wad of cash in there (mostly $1's and $5's) Seal the envelope and mark payment in full! Hand it to him as you're ready to drive off somewhere in your truck Later....when he calls up screaming that the envelope only had $87 inside, tell him you estimated that there was more than enough cash in the envelope |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:21:02 PM EDT
[#31]
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Yours and his whole program out there sounds whacked. There is no reason for any of this over or under bullshit. A scope of work is agreed upon and the costs are calculated, a price is presented and both parties sign. Done. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Ah... just read this. A verbal contract is still enforceable, it's just a far more messy procedure. You're not likely to get all you planned on. Talk to him and see if he's willing to finish for the price asked. GET IT IN WRITING. If not or if he counters with a compromise (more money) you may want to stop the bleeding and look elsewhere. Your call. Lesson learned. He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. Yours and his whole program out there sounds whacked. There is no reason for any of this over or under bullshit. A scope of work is agreed upon and the costs are calculated, a price is presented and both parties sign. Done. I know. My biggest problem is that I believe the people I trust are like me. Sometimes they're not. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:22:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're getting fucked over because electricians. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives. Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. What happens when it's not romex or a piece of pipe on the wall and actually requires someone with some skill? |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:22:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fixed, hope you don't mind. Your second statement eh... there is a bit more to it than you describe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You're getting fucked over because electricians people. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives. Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. Fixed, hope you don't mind. Your second statement eh... there is a bit more to it than you describe. People suck. Electricians suck 87 times more. Science fact. And for my second statement...I don't think there is, no. 
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:22:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Ah... just read this. A verbal contract is still enforceable, it's just a far more messy procedure. You're not likely to get all you planned on. Talk to him and see if he's willing to finish for the price asked. GET IT IN WRITING. If not or if he counters with a compromise (more money) you may want to stop the bleeding and look elsewhere. Your call. Lesson learned. He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. It sounds like he isn't a good project manager if he can't partner with someone and keep them in line or remove them from the project if they aren't productive. We partner with people a lot and sub-contract work out fairly often. If those people make us look bad, aren't productive, or something else that negativity impacts the project we show them the door pretty fast. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:22:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's all MC cable inside the wall. They knew that though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You're getting fucked over because electricians. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives. Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. It's all MC cable inside the wall. They knew that though. Like I said, he's fucking you over because electrician. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:22:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yours and his whole program out there sounds whacked. There is no reason for any of this over or under bullshit. A scope of work is agreed upon and the costs are calculated, a price is presented and both parties sign. Done. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Ah... just read this. A verbal contract is still enforceable, it's just a far more messy procedure. You're not likely to get all you planned on. Talk to him and see if he's willing to finish for the price asked. GET IT IN WRITING. If not or if he counters with a compromise (more money) you may want to stop the bleeding and look elsewhere. Your call. Lesson learned. He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. Yours and his whole program out there sounds whacked. There is no reason for any of this over or under bullshit. A scope of work is agreed upon and the costs are calculated, a price is presented and both parties sign. Done. To be honest it makes me wonder about how qualified he is to do the work. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:25:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What happens when it's not romex or a piece of pipe on the wall and actually requires someone with some skill? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You're getting fucked over because electricians. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives. Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. What happens when it's not romex or a piece of pipe on the wall and actually requires someone with some skill? 
Oh. I see you were being serious.
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:26:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh. I see you were being serious. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You're getting fucked over because electricians. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives. Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. What happens when it's not romex or a piece of pipe on the wall and actually requires someone with some skill?
Oh. I see you were being serious. Just asking a question. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:26:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Ask your "buddy" if he's at least going to use some lube.
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:28:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be honest it makes me wonder about how qualified he is to do the work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Ah... just read this. A verbal contract is still enforceable, it's just a far more messy procedure. You're not likely to get all you planned on. Talk to him and see if he's willing to finish for the price asked. GET IT IN WRITING. If not or if he counters with a compromise (more money) you may want to stop the bleeding and look elsewhere. Your call. Lesson learned. He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. Yours and his whole program out there sounds whacked. There is no reason for any of this over or under bullshit. A scope of work is agreed upon and the costs are calculated, a price is presented and both parties sign. Done. To be honest it makes me wonder about how qualified he is to do the work. His work is very good. You can't fault the quality of his work, the problem is in the billing. I'll get an itemized bill from him and post it here. You all can see it then. If you want I can take pics of the conduit work. There's no problem there, and if it was ugly....that wouldn't cost more. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:29:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know. My biggest problem is that I believe the people I trust are like me. Sometimes they're not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yours and his whole program out there sounds whacked. There is no reason for any of this over or under bullshit. A scope of work is agreed upon and the costs are calculated, a price is presented and both parties sign. Done. I know. My biggest problem is that I believe the people I trust are like me. Sometimes they're not. Fuck dude... stop that. If somebody is trustworthy, they're not gonna bat an eye at doing things on the up and up. If they aren't, a contract will make them visibly uncomfortable. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:29:48 PM EDT
[#42]
It's a lump sum? That's what he's paid.
He needs to finish the job and GTFO. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:32:08 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And you are SURE that the most recent invoice is on top of your $13K payment? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It was a verbal cost estimate. No contract. Why? Because no one does them here....Yet. Ah... just read this. A verbal contract is still enforceable, it's just a far more messy procedure. You're not likely to get all you planned on. Talk to him and see if he's willing to finish for the price asked. GET IT IN WRITING. If not or if he counters with a compromise (more money) you may want to stop the bleeding and look elsewhere. Your call. Lesson learned. He wired a 50x60 shop for me a few years ago and was way under the estimate. His partners are the problem. This is why you don't do business with friends and you don't ever partner on anything ever. And you are SURE that the most recent invoice is on top of your $13K payment? |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:35:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Lets call it as it is. Your friends partners are pressuring him to fuck you because they think that they can get more money out of you. And, they are right. Your friend is letting them do it and you will pay it.
I would bet that your friend could have actually done the job by himself but the partners are probably manipulating him. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:35:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People suck. Electricians suck 87 times more. Science fact. And for my second statement...I don't think there is, no. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You're getting fucked over because electricians people. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives. Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. Fixed, hope you don't mind. Your second statement eh... there is a bit more to it than you describe. People suck. Electricians suck 87 times more. Science fact. And for my second statement...I don't think there is, no. Well shit man... I disagree with all that. I've been at it for awhile and sparkys are the least of my worries. I find far higher proportions of drunks and heroin addicts in all the other trades. That said, it's taken years to assemble my dream team and even now I bounce their prices off other contractors as standard operating procedure. It's business, and I don't get fucked  |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:36:07 PM EDT
[#46]
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Fixed, hope you don't mind. Your second statement eh... there is a bit more to it than you describe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You're getting fucked over because electricians people. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives. Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. Fixed, hope you don't mind. Your second statement eh... there is a bit more to it than you describe. True. Most of the electricians I have met do it while shooting up with pot needles. 
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:37:13 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To be honest it makes me wonder about how qualified he is to do the work. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yours and his whole program out there sounds whacked. There is no reason for any of this over or under bullshit. A scope of work is agreed upon and the costs are calculated, a price is presented and both parties sign. Done. To be honest it makes me wonder about how qualified he is to do the work. Most "contractors" aren't |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:37:21 PM EDT
[#48]
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Fuck dude... stop that. If somebody is trustworthy, they're not gonna bat an eye at doing things on the up and up. If they aren't, a contract will make them visibly uncomfortable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yours and his whole program out there sounds whacked. There is no reason for any of this over or under bullshit. A scope of work is agreed upon and the costs are calculated, a price is presented and both parties sign. Done. I know. My biggest problem is that I believe the people I trust are like me. Sometimes they're not. Fuck dude... stop that. If somebody is trustworthy, they're not gonna bat an eye at doing things on the up and up. If they aren't, a contract will make them visibly uncomfortable. You and my wife. You're both telling me the same story. Stop trusting everyone. 
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:38:59 PM EDT
[#49]
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Well shit man... I disagree with all that. I've been at it for awhile and sparkys are the least of my worries. I find far higher proportions of drunks and heroin addicts in all the other trades. That said, it's taken years to assemble my dream team and even now I bounce their prices off other contractors as standard operating procedure. It's business, and I don't get fucked
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You're getting fucked over because electricians people. I don't trust the sons of bitches myself. Lying, thieving, drunkard, corner cutting low lives. Anybody can pull romex and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to screw a length of metal pipe to a wall. Fixed, hope you don't mind. Your second statement eh... there is a bit more to it than you describe. People suck. Electricians suck 87 times more. Science fact. And for my second statement...I don't think there is, no. Well shit man... I disagree with all that. I've been at it for awhile and sparkys are the least of my worries. I find far higher proportions of drunks and heroin addicts in all the other trades. That said, it's taken years to assemble my dream team and even now I bounce their prices off other contractors as standard operating procedure. It's business, and I don't get fucked
Sounds like you're a decent businessman. Don't you work in a machine shop? |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 11:39:14 PM EDT
[#50]
Meh, that's how it goes.
I went to replace carpet one time and ended up spending $103,000 by the time the dust settled. 
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