Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If I can still remember any chemistry, it'd be an exchange reaction - the iron has the oxygen but aluminium is much more reactive so it grabs it. You don't get to use the test tube for anything else afterwards by the way. Fe2O3 + Al -> Al203 + Fe, that is iron oxide + aluminium -> aluminium oxide + iron You forgot the magnesium. Then it'll burn right through to China BTW Texas does require a Pyro license.

Thermite of Iron oxide and Aluminium burns hotter than Magnesium.  Magnesium will burn nice by itself and doesn't need to mixed.

Quoted: BTW Texas does require a Pyro license.

Texas also does HE on a county-by-county basis, which makes putting on events like the boomershoot pretty hard.

Well, once again I jumped the gun, ASSumed too much, attacked a member, and generally made an ass of myself.

My work here is done.


Explosives for everyone (unless you live in Iowa)!!  

Quoted: Quoted: If I can still remember any chemistry, it'd be an exchange reaction - the iron has the oxygen but aluminium is much more reactive so it grabs it. You don't get to use the test tube for anything else afterwards by the way. Fe2O3 + Al -> Al203 + Fe, that is iron oxide + aluminium -> aluminium oxide + iron He's asking about tannerite not thermite.

I thought Tannerite was patented stuff and cannot be cloned unlike thermite?

Okay is this about right for tannerite
Powdered Amoniun Nitrate, about one softdrink can full, and two tablespoons of powdered aluminum

Quoted: Okay is this about right for tannerite Powdered Amoniun Nitrate, about one softdrink can full, and two tablespoons of powdered aluminum

I don't know. I'd just buy it. Read the patent.

It would be safer and cheaper to attend our shoot, where we have the license and experience.

Quoted: Quoted: Okay is this about right for tannerite Powdered Amoniun Nitrate, about one softdrink can full, and two tablespoons of powdered aluminum I don't know. I'd just buy it. Read the patent. It would be safer and cheaper to attend our shoot, where we have the license and experience.

I am in Vegas, wheres the shoot? And when?

Ammonia mixed with Iodine (ammonium Iodide)is extremely shock sensitive and that's all I'd say about that.

Quoted: Ammonia mixed with Iodine (ammonium Iodide)is extremely shock sensitive and that's all I'd say about that.

We have got to be borderline on a lock by now...

Quoted: Ammonia mixed with Iodine (ammonium Iodide)is extremely shock sensitive and that's all I'd say about that.

The extreme scares me lmao. I drop it boom I am no longer where I last was.

Quoted: I would strongly recommend against any home manufacture of a Tannerite-like explosive.  BATFE would not look favorably on such activity.  They require silly licenses and such.

Actually, as long as it is used the same day on the same property, you can legally make explosives as far as federal law goes...  Realize that how you use them could get you in trouble.  State & local laws may not allow you to make explosives.

mark
[email protected]

Quoted: Quoted: Ammonia mixed with Iodine (ammonium Iodide)is extremely shock sensitive and that's all I'd say about that. The extreme scares me lmao. I drop it boom I am no longer where I last was.

Your thinking of Nitrogen Triiodide .

Here is a link with video of the shit.jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA0/MOVIES/NI3IOD.html

Quoted: Lot of mis-information in this thread. For formulae, see here here and here. more info on recreational explosives here. If you just want to shoot explosives, come to our event and shoot all you're able to. Last year we put out over a ton of HE over 2 days and still had plenty left at the end of the day. The BATFE publishes the Orange Book, which is your pal for safe storage.

Quoted: So what do thermite rounds do? Are they worth it?

No flame here,  I'm going to explain a little.  There is no such thing as a 'thermite round'.  What you are referring to is an incendiary round.  These do not contain thermite ie. mixture of aluminum powder and iron oxide (rust).  Thermite actually burns very slowly compared to other pyrotechnic mixtures.  This is especially true when using coarser powders composed of relatively large particles.  They would not work well in a bullet for technical reasons.  What they contain/are made of depends on the size of the projectile.  

The earliest ones (WWI) used white phosphorous (WP).  There was a small hollow in the base of the bullet that contained a quantity of WP.  The latter melts at about 100 F and also ignites at about that temperature as well.  They used them mainly against airships filled with hydrogen.  The WP ignites from the smokeless powder and burns with white smoke and leaves a trail of phosphorous pentoxide behind the bullet.  In WWII, .50 cal WP bullets were used against aircraft as they would ignite the gasoline as they passed through the fuel tanks.  I don't know if they still use WP in bullets, but doubt it.  

More modern incendiary bullets contain a pyrotechnic mixture similar to those used in tracer bullets.  These mixtures are fast burning and hot, and they are based on a metal fuel, usually magnesium, along with a strong oxidizer and a binder.

Some metals will ignite when they strike a hard surface.  Examples include zirconium, misch metal (cerium metal alloyed with about 25% iron), thorium-silver alloys and uranium.  If the projectile is large enough, then no fuze is needed to ignite the metal.  Do not try this (disclaimer):  Take a lighter flint (which is mish metal noted above) and heat it with a torch while holding it at the end of needlenose pliers.  Wear goggles and leather or nomex gloves!  When the flint gets red hot, flick it against a hard metal or concrete surface.  It 'explodes' into a shower of sparks.  Bullets made with these metals are also considered incendiary bullets.  They don't make any small caliber incendiary bullets ie. 5.56mm.  

If you're just planning on shooting gas tanks (nothing illegal), then just stick with regular tracer bullets like you can get at Ammoman.com (5.56mm).  However, because of the perishability of the magnesium metal these tracers do have a much shorter shelf life than the rest of cartridge itself.  You may get a lot of duds.  

If you are interested in this topic in general, there is an excellent book by Herbert Ellern called Military and Civilian Pyrotechnics you can buy here-->search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=O9t162IGsa&isbn=0820603643&itm=1.  The book was published in 1968 but is available in re-prints.  Don't be fooled by the age of the book:  the information and concepts in it are timeless.  

Quoted: Okay is this about right for tannerite Powdered Amoniun Nitrate, about one softdrink can full, and two tablespoons of powdered aluminum

Yes you are well on the road...  German dark will likely work best, but american dark would work fairly well also.

mark
[email protected]

Quoted: Quoted: Lot of mis-information in this thread. For formulae, see here here and here. more info on recreational explosives here. If you just want to shoot explosives, come to our event and shoot all you're able to. Last year we put out over a ton of HE over 2 days and still had plenty left at the end of the day. The BATFE publishes the Orange Book, which is your pal for safe storage. Quoted: So what do thermite rounds do? Are they worth it? No flame here,  I'm going to explain a little.  There is no such thing as a 'thermite round'.  What you are referring to is an incendiary round.  These do not contain thermite ie. mixture of aluminum powder and iron oxide (rust).  Thermite actually burns very slowly compared to other pyrotechnic mixtures.  This is especially true when using coarser powders composed of relatively large particles.  They would not work well in a bullet for technical reasons.  What they contain/are made of depends on the size of the projectile.   The earliest ones (WWI) used white phosphorous (WP).  There was a small hollow in the base of the bullet that contained a quantity of WP.  The latter melts at about 100 F and also ignites at about that temperature as well.  They used them mainly against airships filled with hydrogen.  The WP ignites from the smokeless powder and burns with white smoke and leaves a trail of phosphorous pentoxide behind the bullet.  In WWII, .50 cal WP bullets were used against aircraft as they would ignite the gasoline as they passed through the fuel tanks.  I don't know if they still use WP in bullets, but doubt it.   More modern incendiary bullets contain a pyrotechnic mixture similar to those used in tracer bullets.  These mixtures are fast burning and hot, and they are based on a metal fuel, usually magnesium, along with a strong oxidizer and a binder. Some metals will ignite when they strike a hard surface.  Examples include zirconium, misch metal (cerium metal alloyed with about 25% iron), thorium-silver alloys and uranium.  If the projectile is large enough, then no fuze is needed to ignite the metal.  Do not try this (disclaimer):  Take a lighter flint (which is mish metal noted above) and heat it with a torch while holding it at the end of needlenose pliers.  Wear goggles and leather or nomex gloves!  When the flint gets red hot, flick it against a hard metal or concrete surface.  It 'explodes' into a shower of sparks.  Bullets made with these metals are also considered incendiary bullets.  They don't make any small caliber incendiary bullets ie. 5.56mm.   If you're just planning on shooting gas tanks (nothing illegal), then just stick with regular tracer bullets like you can get at Ammoman.com (5.56mm).  However, because of the perishability of the magnesium metal these tracers do have a much shorter shelf life than the rest of cartridge itself.  You may get a lot of duds.   If you are interested in this topic in general, there is an excellent book by Herbert Ellern called Military and Civilian Pyrotechnics you can buy here-->search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=O9t162IGsa&isbn=0820603643&itm=1.  The book was published in 1968 but is available in re-prints.  Don't be fooled by the age of the book:  the information and concepts in it are timeless.

I have seen 54r's that they said where thermite and where dated 50's $1.90 a round.
G

Heres a link to some info I found
www.russianwarrior.com/STMMain.htm?1890Ammo76254R.htm&1

Quoted: This is the net home of the Palouse Practical Shooters Boomershoot.  This is a long range, high-power, precision rifle shooting event with high explosive, reactive targets up to 700 yards away.   As if you needed one -- this is a great excuse to visit Idaho. Information about our last event is posted here.  Our next event will be April 30th and May 1 of 2005.

Where is the nearest airport I can fly to?

Quoted: I have seen 54r's that they said where thermite and where dated 50's $1.90 a round. G Heres a link to some info I found www.russianwarrior.com/STMMain.htm?1890Ammo76254R.htm&1

Incendiary and tracer rounds were introduced in the late 1930's.  Their development was similar and involved a hollow bullet filled with a chemical substance.  The incendiary rounds were filled with phosphorous and aluminum mixture that burned very well.  Later rounds used Thermite which burned even better.

Oly,  I think that they are simply wrong and misinformed.  I've done a lot of reading on the subject and I have never once come across Thermite being used in a bullet, unless they were talking about some of the early experimentation.  You can't believe everything on the net.  A while back someone posted info about Napalm that was filled with misinformation.  I read Fieser's book in which he details his discovery and development of Napalm and read through his patent.  

Quoted: Quoted: This is the net home of the Palouse Practical Shooters Boomershoot.  This is a long range, high-power, precision rifle shooting event with high explosive, reactive targets up to 700 yards away.   As if you needed one -- this is a great excuse to visit Idaho. Information about our last event is posted here.  Our next event will be April 30th and May 1 of 2005. Where is the nearest airport I can fly to?

GEG (Spokane) or PUW (Pullman) or LWS (Lewiston). PUW and LWS are closer, but GEG is only a few hours away and is usually much cheaper.

Quoted: Quoted: It would be safer and cheaper to attend our shoot, where we have the license and experience. I am in Vegas, wheres the shoot? And when?

April 30 is the Precision Rifle Clinic. May 1 is the shoot itself. Plenty of info on the website including entry forms. There is a significant discount for early entry.

FYI, our smallest targets are a pound; the largest, four pounds. The four pound targets will thump your chest from 700 yards away, I promise. The one pounders are at the gimme line (385 yards), and you will feel them. Tons of reax & pix here here here here.

Here we are launching an anvil into space.

Much Clown Love,
Ry
Water Boy, Boomershoot

Quoted: I've done a lot of reading on the subject and I have never once come across Thermite being used in a bullet, unless they were talking about some of the early experimentation.

The amount of energy to get over the curve and get ignition for thermite is higher than for magnesium. Thermite is also a powder whereas magnesium is a solid metal. I think you're quite right about never having production thermite.

That said, magnesium burns bright white and the tracers I've seen were orange/red. They could have put something in there for coloring or they could be using some other metal.

Also, the tracers I hand-loaded for 300 win mag wouldn't ignite until about 80 or 100 yards downrange. If your target is in that zone, you may be mistaking later ignitions for failure to ignite. Just a thought.

Quoted: Quoted: Ammonia mixed with Iodine (ammonium Iodide)is extremely shock sensitive and that's all I'd say about that. We have got to be borderline on a lock by now...

My freshman chem prof had us make that; it was all kinds of fun.  The purer, the less likely it is to spontaneously blow.  Ridiculously impractical for anybody with evil intentions; they'd never get it out of their garage.

Quoted: Quoted: I've done a lot of reading on the subject and I have never once come across Thermite being used in a bullet, unless they were talking about some of the early experimentation. The amount of energy to get over the curve and get ignition for thermite is higher than for magnesium. Thermite is also a powder whereas magnesium is a solid metal. I think you're quite right about never having production thermite. That said, magnesium burns bright white and the tracers I've seen were orange/red. They could have put something in there for coloring or they could be using some other metal. Also, the tracers I hand-loaded for 300 win mag wouldn't ignite until about 80 or 100 yards downrange. If your target is in that zone, you may be mistaking later ignitions for failure to ignite. Just a thought.

You are correct that magnesium burns with a white light.  When a metal is heated to incandescence, it will give off a spectral signature of light.  Sodium, for example, gives off a bright yellow-light orange light, hence the color of most street lamps.  Depending on what color you desire, there is a metal ion that will give it off.  Barium salts give off green and are used in Russian small arms and Strontium salts give off red and are used in U.S./NATO ammunition.  The 'coloring' you refer to is produced by combining the magnesium fuel with an oxidizer that contains another metal for coloring.  NATO red tracers use the following composition:

Magnesium 28 (fuel)
Strontium oxalate 8 (fuel and red coloring)
Strontium nitrate 40 (oxidizer and red coloring)
Potassium perchlorate 20 (powerful oxidizer which increases burning rate)
Polyvinyl chloride 17 (chloride donor to intensify color and binder)

The numbers refer to parts by weight and are not percentages.  The magnesium is not solid but rather powdered, usually 100 mesh.  In WWII era, lathe cut powder was used prior to the advent of atomized magnesium produced by rapidly quenching magnesium vapor.

You are absolutely correct about the tracer composition not igniting right out of the barrel.  This is to help preserve the shooter's night vision, before it's destroyed by a parachute flare anyway .  The tracer compound has a 'dim light igniter' pressed onto it that burns cigarette-fashion with very little light production.  It does not contain magnesium but rather an organic fuel usually with Strontium Peroxide as the oxidizer.  The tracer usually travels at least 50-100 yards before the dim light igniter sets fire to the tracer compound.