Hostess CEO will "shut down the company" and sell Twinkie name if union votes against them - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hostess CEO will "shut down the company" and sell Twinkie name if union votes against them (Page 2 of 8)

Posted: 9/22/2012 10:59:05 AM EDT

[#1]

Unions are the downfall of America

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:01:46 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Perfect reason to move a business to Ohio.
Starve out the liberal machines that run costs of living up.

Quoted:

Quoted:
Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

They would have the exact same opportunity to go union here as they do in NYC.

I just can't understand the argument of closing the doors to avoid the union. Why would you commit 'company suicide' to prevent a union shop? Is there any advantage? Wouldn't it cost millions to set up shop in another state or country?

To me it seems to take the same form as union greed.

For a number of reasons people in other areas will do the same work for less. Move the factory to the south and you'll have folks doing it for $10/hr. Not to mention the political climate there is such the union can rely on local corruption and politcal support for unions to get its way. Regardless of the cost of living, the idea that factory workers making snack foods should be making 50+k with a month and a half of vacation is absurd.

That's an unskilled/semi-skilled labor type job that would never pay that much if the company wasnt forced to do so. Federal and state labor laws and the political power wielded by unions however means they cant fire all their employees and start over in their current state, nor can they in some cases uproot and move the factory just to restaff with non-union employees IIRC.

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:02:50 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

You think that's relevant? If anything, it shows why it makes more sense to move production elsewhere.

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:04:45 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

[/quote]

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

That inflated cost of living is their own fault too.

I don't give a fuck where it is, I'm not paying $3000 per month for a 600sq ft apartment. That's just stupid.

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:24:12 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
All unions should be shut-down.

Every single damned one of them.

I don't think they have to be shut down, I think they just have to operate on a fair playing field, ie employers should be able to fire and rehire.

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:29:31 AM EDT

[#6]

"SNOWBALLS? SNOWBALLS???! WHERE'S THE TWINKIES?"

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:30:45 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.[/quote]

That inflated cost of living is their own fault too.

I don't give a fuck where it is, I'm not paying $3000 per month for a 600sq ft apartment. That's just stupid.

If there weren't so many rent-controlled apartments, the remaining ones wouldn't be so expensive.

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:31:24 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

I don't think 55k in NYC is living rich, nor would I expect the average person working the floor of a cookie factory to be rich...

Sure, you ought to be able to make a living doing a job like that, but I wouldn't expect to be living it up, you make cookies, literally anyone can do that.

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:36:27 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

Now they have nothing. They win, I guess.

You guys ever think about cost of living in certain parts of the country before you start shelling out your wisdom?

$55K in manhattan is store clerk pay and streets departments workers can earn $100K.

To you it may seem like a lot of money, but in most cases those people may not have been able to live on it.

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:46:14 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.[/quote]

That inflated cost of living is their own fault too.

I don't give a fuck where it is, I'm not paying $3000 per month for a 600sq ft apartment. That's just stupid.

BINGO.

#1 reason I left California. Where you can RENT a 30 year old 900 sq apartment for $1500 a month. SERIOUS WTF there.

"But the weather is so nice"

Fuck that shit.

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:49:47 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

I don't think 55k in NYC is living rich, nor would I expect the average person working the floor of a cookie factory to be rich...

Sure, you ought to be able to make a living doing a job like that, but I wouldn't expect to be living it up, you make cookies, literally anyone can do that.

I work in manufacturing.

You would be surprised how many people cant do that.

Our company is not suffering under the union right now but under the bad contract decisions they have made to save money. Our new hires only get $10hr to start and will max out in 3yrs at 13.75. This has done only one thing for the company, set up a revolving door where no one gives a shit about quality and only the dumbest people apply.

I have seen managers literally pull their hair out in production meetings trying to get it across to HR and the PM that you cant make a given production rate when no one gives a shit about their job and 15-20 of your 80 workers on your line dont show up on a given day.

Even someone who only gives half a shit can become a manager at a fast food joint in 5-7yrs and earn good money and see some type of future to work towards.

What does a guy never able to earn more than $14 an hour look forward too?

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:51:06 AM EDT

[#12]

Good…

Exactly what I would do as well…

You want to make decisions how the business is run then
start your own damn business.

I would have personally shut it down the second my employees
went union.

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:53:20 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

I'd love to make that. And keep my mouth fucking shut unless I was promoting the product..................

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:56:38 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

What does a guy never able to earn more than $14 an hour look forward too?

Beer.

Seriously though, what's wrong with shooting for a management position if you want to excel at your job? Why is anyone somehow "stuck" in the labor role?

If the job sucks that much, go find another one. If the company can't pay enough to get good workers and put out a good product, then the company will fail and that's on the company. End of story.

I had a phone interview for a job once. I just left a management position, but this new job was a sales position; I knew I'd have to start at the bottom but I didn't mind working my way up.

Anyway, on the phone, the HR lady hit me with "This position is a union job. How do you feel about working for a union company?" I told her flat out that I had aspirations of promotion to management, but I would join if I had to in the interim (a little cocky, but fuck it, I was young

).

She didn't like that response too much so I blew off the real interview. Fucking union sales position? WTF?

Speed

Posted: 9/22/2012 11:58:17 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Perfect reason to move a business to Ohio.

Starve out the liberal machines that run costs of living up.

Quoted:

Quoted:

Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

They would have the exact same opportunity to go union here as they do in NYC.

I just can't understand the argument of closing the doors to avoid the union. Why would you commit 'company suicide' to prevent a union shop? Is there any advantage? Wouldn't it cost millions to set up shop in another state or country?

To me it seems to take the same form as union greed.

If I built it and I kill it I can live with that. I didn't build it so some greedy fuck can steal it from me a piece at a time and eventually kill it for me. Fuck unions.

Posted: 9/22/2012 12:01:02 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck unions... Fuck non-unions....Hell fuck jobs & working! It's for suckas.

Welfare is where it's at.

If welfare recipients ever unionize that will be the most powerful union in the world.

No shit!

Posted: 9/22/2012 12:02:23 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Good…

Exactly what I would do as well…

You want to make decisions how the business is run thenstart your own damn business.

I would have personally shut it down the second my employeeswent union.

Might be better to sell it to the Union, and watch them run it to the ground. Of course, that can't be so easy for a company you built from the ground up.

Posted: 9/22/2012 12:03:05 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

Now they have nothing. They win, I guess.

You guys ever think about cost of living in certain parts of the country before you start shelling out your wisdom?

$55K in manhattan is store clerk pay and streets departments workers can earn $100K.
To you it may seem like a lot of money, but in most cases those people may not have been able to live on it.

Then look for another job and quit biting the hand that feeds you.

Posted: 9/22/2012 12:06:05 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I remember Twinkies being a great snack but I admit I haven't eaten one in over 30 years.

It had been about 1980 since I had one until my last deployment when I got a whole box of Twinkies in a care package. It brought back memories of a childhood in the 1970s as the Hostess products were the dessert items packed in our lunch boxes.

I had about three and passed the box around, they were a big hit.

Posted: 9/22/2012 12:08:00 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck unions... Fuck non-unions....Hell fuck jobs & working! It's for suckas.

Welfare is where it's at.

If welfare recipients ever unionize that will be the most powerful union in the world.

They have one in the Democratic Party.

Posted: 9/22/2012 12:08:07 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

I don't think 55k in NYC is living rich, nor would I expect the average person working the floor of a cookie factory to be rich...

Sure, you ought to be able to make a living doing a job like that, but I wouldn't expect to be living it up, you make cookies, literally anyone can do that.

I work in manufacturing.

You would be surprised how many people cant do that.

Our company is not suffering under the union right now but under the bad contract decisions they have made to save money. Our new hires only get $10hr to start and will max out in 3yrs at 13.75. This has done only one thing for the company, set up a revolving door where no one gives a shit about quality and only the dumbest people apply.

I have seen managers literally pull their hair out in production meetings trying to get it across to HR and the PM that you cant make a given production rate when no one gives a shit about their job and 15-20 of your 80 workers on your line dont show up on a given day.

Even someone who only gives half a shit can become a manager at a fast food joint in 5-7yrs and earn good money and see some type of future to work towards.

What does a guy never able to earn more than $14 an hour look forward too?

So, unionizing those same shitbag workers, and giving them 20 bucks an hour would make them super stars? I'm just trying to understand your point.

Posted: 9/22/2012 12:10:24 PM EDT

[#22]

Fuck unions.

Posted: 9/22/2012 12:19:34 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

I don't think 55k in NYC is living rich, nor would I expect the average person working the floor of a cookie factory to be rich...

Sure, you ought to be able to make a living doing a job like that, but I wouldn't expect to be living it up, you make cookies, literally anyone can do that.

I work in manufacturing.

You would be surprised how many people cant do that.

Our company is not suffering under the union right now but under the bad contract decisions they have made to save money. Our new hires only get $10hr to start and will max out in 3yrs at 13.75. This has done only one thing for the company, set up a revolving door where no one gives a shit about quality and only the dumbest people apply.

I have seen managers literally pull their hair out in production meetings trying to get it across to HR and the PM that you cant make a given production rate when no one gives a shit about their job and 15-20 of your 80 workers on your line dont show up on a given day.

Even someone who only gives half a shit can become a manager at a fast food joint in 5-7yrs and earn good money and see some type of future to work towards.

What does a guy never able to earn more than $14 an hour look forward too?

So, unionizing those same shitbag workers, and giving them 20 bucks an hour would make them super stars? I'm just trying to understand your point.

He is saying that you get what you pay for.

Posted: 9/22/2012 1:06:54 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

I don't think 55k in NYC is living rich, nor would I expect the average person working the floor of a cookie factory to be rich...

Sure, you ought to be able to make a living doing a job like that, but I wouldn't expect to be living it up, you make cookies, literally anyone can do that.

I work in manufacturing.

You would be surprised how many people cant do that.

Our company is not suffering under the union right now but under the bad contract decisions they have made to save money. Our new hires only get $10hr to start and will max out in 3yrs at 13.75. This has done only one thing for the company, set up a revolving door where no one gives a shit about quality and only the dumbest people apply.

I have seen managers literally pull their hair out in production meetings trying to get it across to HR and the PM that you cant make a given production rate when no one gives a shit about their job and 15-20 of your 80 workers on your line dont show up on a given day.

Even someone who only gives half a shit can become a manager at a fast food joint in 5-7yrs and earn good money and see some type of future to work towards.

What does a guy never able to earn more than $14 an hour look forward too?

So, unionizing those same shitbag workers, and giving them 20 bucks an hour would make them super stars? I'm just trying to understand your point.

He is saying that you get what you pay for.

Not so much. Not in the context here. Unions are part of the problem. Giving them more money just seems to hasten the demise of the company and embolden the thugs. In a non-union shop I can see his point though.

Posted: 9/22/2012 1:25:24 PM EDT

[#25]

Fuck unions!

My FIL is a Teamster and works for Supervalu, he gets pissed when he come over and sees Target and Walmart bags. Sorry the free market works and your stupid grocery store is MORE expensive (Supervalu is tanking as well if you didn't know). Funny thing is they give employees cards for like 10 or 15% off at their stores but they still shop at Walmart because its cheaper and times are tough.

Posted: 9/22/2012 1:36:50 PM EDT

[#26]

If they're smart, they will vote in favor of Hostess. If they're dumb, they vote themselves some years of unemployment, food stamps and welfare.

Posted: 9/22/2012 1:39:07 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

Now they have nothing. They win, I guess.

You guys ever think about cost of living in certain parts of the country before you start shelling out your wisdom?

$55K in manhattan is store clerk pay and streets departments workers can earn $100K.

To you it may seem like a lot of money, but in most cases those people may not have been able to live on it.

Unfortunately, it's completely irrelevant. Local cost of living variance has nothing to do with what what labor is worth in the case of manufacturing. The cookie company's customers give exactly zero fucks where the cookies were produced and what it costs to live there. When you are at a store and see two similar brands of cookies and one is $3 a box and made in Buttfuck, KS with and the other is $5 a box and made in NYC...which one do you think the vast majority of people are going to choose assuming they taste the same?

If they wanted to keep their jobs, they had to be competitive nationally, not just locally.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:01:03 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.
They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

I don't think 55k in NYC is living rich, nor would I expect the average person working the floor of a cookie factory to be rich...
Sure, you ought to be able to make a living doing a job like that, but I wouldn't expect to be living it up, you make cookies, literally anyone can do that.

I work in manufacturing.
You would be surprised how many people cant do that.
Our company is not suffering under the union right now but under the bad contract decisions they have made to save money. Our new hires only get $10hr to start and will max out in 3yrs at 13.75. This has done only one thing for the company, set up a revolving door where no one gives a shit about quality and only the dumbest people apply.
I have seen managers literally pull their hair out in production meetings trying to get it across to HR and the PM that you cant make a given production rate when no one gives a shit about their job and 15-20 of your 80 workers on your line dont show up on a given day.
Even someone who only gives half a shit can become a manager at a fast food joint in 5-7yrs and earn good money and see some type of future to work towards.
What does a guy never able to earn more than $14 an hour look forward too?

So, unionizing those same shitbag workers, and giving them 20 bucks an hour would make them super stars? I'm just trying to understand your point.

If you had given this just a teensy bit of thought you would have realized that we ARE union.

Greedy, Greedy union scum who gave up $4hr to keep the fucked up company afloat. A company who cares so little
Never mind, its over your head, the company can never do wrong, got it.

What does a guy never able to earn more than $14 an hour look forward too?

Beer.
#1 Seriously
though, what's wrong with shooting for a management position if you
want to excel at your job? Why is anyone somehow "stuck" in the labor
role?

If the job sucks that much, go find another one. #2 If the company
can't pay enough to get good workers and put out a good product, then
the company will fail and that's on the company. End of story.
Speed

#1: Management had the brilliant idear 15yrs ago that anyone who did not have a sheepskin could ever attain Mgt status. Us little people weren't good enough in their eyes to run the shop. Now we have a factory full of management drones who dont know much more than how to do payroll and fire people and guess who is actually running the shop ops now? Yup, guys like me.
Training? problem solving skills? Leadership? Knowing the facility inside and out and how to make things happen on the fly? whats that all about?
When I started here in 86 you got shown how to do the job by the boss and he knew how to do it because he came up through the ranks. If you tried to cry foul, that man would push you out and show you how the job was done and that he could do the job himself.
Thats called leadership and it breeds respect, and it is what we lost and its hurting us.
Now? You cant find a foreman who can do any of the jobs, no one gets training and if one small part out of a product with 60-80 different pieces is missing the whole place comes to a halt.
As to #2, your not even thinking past the end of your own nose.
Ill have 26yrs in this fall, 23 of them as a Toolmaker. It is MY story that ends if the company fucks it all up.
Why should I be out of a job due to them fucking things up?

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:09:57 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck unions... Fuck non-unions....Hell fuck jobs & working! It's for suckas.

Welfare is where it's at.

If welfare recipients ever unionize that will be the most powerful union in the world.

Would you believe SEIU is trying to do just that??

What value does the welfare class bring to society?
The union holds the "You can't replace us" card against the company.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:11:42 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck unions... Fuck non-unions....Hell fuck jobs & working! It's for suckas.

Welfare is where it's at.

If welfare recipients ever unionize that will be the most powerful union in the world.

Would you believe SEIU is trying to do just that??

What value does the welfare class bring to society?
The union holds the "You can't replace us" card against the company.

Votes

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:16:00 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

A compelling reason to relocate to Ohio, where $55k goes a hell of a lot further.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:16:23 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck unions... Fuck non-unions....Hell fuck jobs & working! It's for suckas.

Welfare is where it's at.

If welfare recipients ever unionize that will be the most powerful union in the world.

Would you believe SEIU is trying to do just that??

What value does the welfare class bring to society?
The union holds the "You can't replace us" card against the company.

Votes

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:16:52 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck unions... Fuck non-unions....Hell fuck jobs & working! It's for suckas.

Welfare is where it's at.

If welfare recipients ever unionize that will be the most powerful union in the world.

Would you believe SEIU is trying to do just that??

What value does the welfare class bring to society?
The union holds the "You can't replace us" card against the company.

Of course, while saying that the Unions support laws preventing their ever being replaced, so it's not as if they really believe that.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:18:04 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

[/quote]

That inflated cost of living is their own fault too.

I don't give a fuck where it is, I'm not paying $3000 per month for a 600sq ft apartment. That's just stupid.

BINGO.

#1 reason I left California. Where you can RENT a 30 year old 900 sq apartment for $1500 a month. SERIOUS WTF there.

"But the weather is so nice"

Fuck that shit.

It's nice in Florida, too.

I really don't get the weather argument anyway, unless you live in or close to San Diego. The rest of the state is kind oh "meh", weather-wise.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:19:14 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck unions... Fuck non-unions....Hell fuck jobs & working! It's for suckas.

Welfare is where it's at.

If welfare recipients ever unionize that will be the most powerful union in the world.

Would you believe SEIU is trying to do just that??

What value does the welfare class bring to society?
The union holds the "You can't replace us" card against the company.

Votes

Just to clarify, they are not the productive ones.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:20:19 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Fuck unions... Fuck non-unions....Hell fuck jobs & working! It's for suckas.

Welfare is where it's at.

If welfare recipients ever unionize that will be the most powerful union in the world.

They have one in the Democratic Party.

Damn. I came here to post just that. :(

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:22:32 PM EDT

[#37]

I think the rail unions in the protection of rail workers is needed, have seen the company skirt the fine line of worker to out right dangerous near fatal mistakes.

Fuck hostess, they along with every other processed shit food producer fell hook line a sinker into soy and corn products and the over all quality went to shit.. they should revert back to the old recipes and charge a bit more for them instead of staying cheap and shitty.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:23:15 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

That inflated cost of living is their own fault too.

I don't give a fuck where it is, I'm not paying $3000 per month for a 600sq ft apartment. That's just stupid.[/quote]
BINGO.

#1 reason I left California. Where you can RENT a 30 year old 900 sq apartment for $1500 a month. SERIOUS WTF there.

"But the weather is so nice"

Fuck that shit.

It's nice in Florida, too.

I really don't get the weather argument anyway, unless you live in or close to San Diego. The rest of the state is kind oh "meh", weather-wise.

Where else in the US can you be on the slopes in the morning, an d on the beach in the evening? Where else in the US do you see reflectors mounted in the roads above grade, as far north as San Francisco (no need to worry about snowplows, see)?

Florida might have warmth, but it is very humid and you are far, far from any terrain or any chance of seeing seasons. California really offers a lot, weather and nature wise.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:23:17 PM EDT

[#39]

FWIW, I actually like the idea of unions in skilled trades (like HVAC, for example). There are a lot of advantages to both employer and employee. The employer gets a guaranteed minimum level of proficiency and doesn't have to worry about training, the employee has a structured career path, etc. If I had a large project and needed a lot of skilled tradesman right fucking now, it's actually easier to call on the local Unions in many cases.

Making junk food on an assembly line? Not so much.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:25:23 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
I think the rail unions in the protection of rail workers is needed, have seen the company skirt the fine line of worker to out right dangerous near fatal mistakes.

Fuck hostess, they along with every other processed shit food producer fell hook line a sinker into soy and corn products and the over all quality went to shit.. they should revert back to the old recipes and charge a bit more for them instead of staying cheap and shitty.

Unions are fine to the extent they serve a regulatory or training function. It's when they start strong-arming companies Lenin-style, that I have a problem. Historically, they have not been very effective at staying on one side of that line.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:25:32 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Where else in the US can you be on the slopes in the morning, an d on the beach in the evening? Where else in the US do you see reflectors mounted in the roads above grade, as far north as San Francisco (no need to worry about snowplows, see)?

Florida might have warmth, but it is very humid and you are far, far from any terrain or any chance of seeing seasons. California really offers a lot, weather and nature wise.

Well, that's true. I lived in the Central Valley (definitely "meh" on the weather front). 2 hours east and I was on the slopes. 2 hours west, and I was at the beach. That is pretty cool.

I miss backpacking in designated Wilderness areas, too. Ohio severely lacks, in this regard. 3 hours in the car, and I used to disappear into the mountains for a week.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:25:50 PM EDT

[#42]

They did.

They are called Democrates.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:25:53 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I think the rail unions in the protection of rail workers is needed, have seen the company skirt the fine line of worker to out right dangerous near fatal mistakes.

Fuck hostess, they along with every other processed shit food producer fell hook line a sinker into soy and corn products and the over all quality went to shit.. they should revert back to the old recipes and charge a bit more for them instead of staying cheap and shitty.

Unions are fine to the extent they serve a regulatory or training function. It's when they start strong-arming companies Lenin-style, that I have a problem. Historically, they have not been very effective at staying on one side of that line.

What he said.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:36:06 PM EDT

[#44]

Unions are fine... private unions that have private contracts with private business. You reap what you sow there and all the power to both sides of that argument.

Public Unions are the devil... simply put.

Two solutions to fix the country.

1. Only land owners vote.
2. Just like taxes are taken out now union dues are taking out before you get the check... stop that... if you want to be a member of a union great... write the check yourself.

Unions even private can exist all they want as long as the members keep writing that check each month.

Problem solved.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:39:53 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think the rail unions in the protection of rail workers is needed, have seen the company skirt the fine line of worker to out right dangerous near fatal mistakes.

Fuck hostess, they along with every other processed shit food producer fell hook line a sinker into soy and corn products and the over all quality went to shit.. they should revert back to the old recipes and charge a bit more for them instead of staying cheap and shitty.

Unions are fine to the extent they serve a regulatory or training function. It's when they start strong-arming companies Lenin-style, that I have a problem. Historically, they have not been very effective at staying on one side of that line.

What he said.

Heck, I was about to quote yours and say, "what he said."

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:40:55 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

FWIW, I actually like the idea of unions in skilled trades (like HVAC, for example). There are a lot of advantages to both employer and employee. The employer gets a guaranteed minimum level of proficiency and doesn't have to worry about training, the employee has a structured career path, etc. If I had a large project and needed a lot of skilled tradesman right fucking now, it's actually easier to call on the local Unions in many cases.

Making junk food on an assembly line? Not so much.

IMO you have that backwards from what I have seen.

The trade unions are the problem with how people see unions, but that is a whole different argument.
Re the line worker being union, lets look at it differently.
Did you ever go to a fast food place and wonder how many boogers the disgruntled lil manchild making your food added to the recipe? His boss is only feet away and he spit in your food.

Now we have a modern assembly here with 20-30 workers some handling mixes and food stuffs directly, others working heavy machinery and industrial processes, mixers the size of your house, high pressure steam and ovens as long as a football field.
Doesnt it kind of make sense to pay the line worker in charge of this type of equipment a decent living wage? In the above posters comment about the railroad he is spot on in regards to safety concerns and a balance of powers so to speak.

Who knows what these peoples working conditions are or if their even able to find employment with comparable pay.
Junk food on an assembly line? Dis aint an episode of I love lucy.

Most people would not be able to identify a modern food production plant from a chemical plant from the inside.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:45:17 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
FWIW, I actually like the idea of unions in skilled trades (like HVAC, for example). There are a lot of advantages to both employer and employee. The employer gets a guaranteed minimum level of proficiency and doesn't have to worry about training, the employee has a structured career path, etc. If I had a large project and needed a lot of skilled tradesman right fucking now, it's actually easier to call on the local Unions in many cases.

Making junk food on an assembly line? Not so much.

IMO you have that backwards from what I have seen.

The trade unions are the problem with how people see unions, but that is a whole different argument.

Re the line worker being union, lets look at it differently.

Did you ever go to a fast food place and wonder how many boogers the disgruntled lil manchild making your food added to the recipe? His boss is only feet away and he spit in your food.

Now we have a modern assembly here with 20-30 workers some handling mixes and food stuffs directly, others working heavy machinery and industrial processes, mixers the size of your house, high pressure steam and ovens as long as a football field.

Doesnt it kind of make sense to pay the line worker in charge of this type of equipment a decent living wage? In the above posters comment about the railroad he is spot on in regards to safety concerns and a balance of powers so to speak.

Who knows what these peoples working conditions are or if their even able to find employment with comparable pay.

Junk food on an assembly line? Dis aint an episode of I love lucy.

Most people would not be able to identify a modern food production plant from a chemical plant from the inside.

It doesn't make sense to pay them any more than is necessary to ensure production is done to standard. In fact, ideally you remove as many humans from the process as possible.

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:45:19 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

I don't think 55k in NYC is living rich, nor would I expect the average person working the floor of a cookie factory to be rich...

Sure, you ought to be able to make a living doing a job like that, but I wouldn't expect to be living it up, you make cookies, literally anyone can do that.

I work in manufacturing.

You would be surprised how many people cant do that.

Our company is not suffering under the union right now but under the bad contract decisions they have made to save money. Our new hires only get $10hr to start and will max out in 3yrs at 13.75. This has done only one thing for the company, set up a revolving door where no one gives a shit about quality and only the dumbest people apply.

I have seen managers literally pull their hair out in production meetings trying to get it across to HR and the PM that you cant make a given production rate when no one gives a shit about their job and 15-20 of your 80 workers on your line dont show up on a given day.

Even someone who only gives half a shit can become a manager at a fast food joint in 5-7yrs and earn good money and see some type of future to work towards.

What does a guy never able to earn more than $14 an hour look forward too?

So, unionizing those same shitbag workers, and giving them 20 bucks an hour would make them super stars? I'm just trying to understand your point.

If you had given this just a teensy bit of thought you would have realized that we ARE union.

Greedy, Greedy union scum who gave up $4hr to keep the fucked up company afloat. A company who cares so little

Never mind, its over your head, the company can never do wrong, got it.

What does a guy never able to earn more than $14 an hour look forward too?

Beer.

#1 Seriously though, what's wrong with shooting for a management position if you want to excel at your job? Why is anyone somehow "stuck" in the labor role?

If the job sucks that much, go find another one. #2 If the company can't pay enough to get good workers and put out a good product, then the company will fail and that's on the company. End of story.
Speed

#1: Management had the brilliant idear 15yrs ago that anyone who did not have a sheepskin could ever attain Mgt status. Us little people weren't good enough in their eyes to run the shop. Now we have a factory full of management drones who dont know much more than how to do payroll and fire people and guess who is actually running the shop ops now? Yup, guys like me.

Training? problem solving skills? Leadership? Knowing the facility inside and out and how to make things happen on the fly? whats that all about?

When I started here in 86 you got shown how to do the job by the boss and he knew how to do it because he came up through the ranks. If you tried to cry foul, that man would push you out and show you how the job was done and that he could do the job himself.

Thats called leadership and it breeds respect, and it is what we lost and its hurting us.

Now? You cant find a foreman who can do any of the jobs, no one gets training and if one small part out of a product with 60-80 different pieces is missing the whole place comes to a halt.
As to #2, your not even thinking past the end of your own nose.

Ill have 26yrs in this fall, 23 of them as a Toolmaker. It is MY story that ends if the company fucks it all up.

Why should I be out of a job due to them fucking things up?

WTF?

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:48:27 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I think the rail unions in the protection of rail workers is needed, have seen the company skirt the fine line of worker to out right dangerous near fatal mistakes.

Fuck hostess, they along with every other processed shit food producer fell hook line a sinker into soy and corn products and the over all quality went to shit.. they should revert back to the old recipes and charge a bit more for them instead of staying cheap and shitty.

Unions are fine to the extent they serve a regulatory or training function. It's when they start strong-arming companies Lenin-style, that I have a problem. Historically, they have not been very effective at staying on one side of that line.

What he said.

yup

Posted: 9/22/2012 2:53:34 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Perfect reason to move a business to Ohio.
Starve out the liberal machines that run costs of living up.

Quoted:

Quoted:
Same thing happened with Stella D'oro cookies.

They were manufacturing in NYC with a union work force. They couldn't cut costs because of location and union rules, so they ended up closing and selling the name and equipment to another company who started up again in Ohio. The (now unemployed) idiots who used to work there were celebrating their "victory" of running the company out of business. Never mind it took their own jobs with them, and the cookies are still being made.

The people on the cookie line were making over $55k a year and had like 7 weeks vacation. And they wanted more. Only a fool would run a business up there.

So you think making $55k in NYC is living rich or something?

You need to look at the cost of living vs what people earn.

They would have the exact same opportunity to go union here as they do in NYC.

I just can't understand the argument of closing the doors to avoid the union. Why would you commit 'company suicide' to prevent a union shop? Is there any advantage? Wouldn't it cost millions to set up shop in another state or country?

To me it seems to take the same form as union greed.

Why run a company you can't make a profit from? So the union can get paid?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hostess CEO will "shut down the company" and sell Twinkie name if union votes against them (Page 2 of 8)

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