Hivemind Help I need ALL the reasons that the Prius is for kool-aide drinkers - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hivemind Help I need ALL the reasons that the Prius is for kool-aide drinkers (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:07:41 PM EDT

[#1]

I set the cruise control on my parents' prius when I borrowed it a few weeks ago to 60.

Avg mileage at that speed was pretty close to 60mpg.

Pale Pony: Look at it from an unbiased point of view. It sounds like you're just looking for reasons to bash it rather than the actual facts. Do your own math. Sit in one. Drive one. Compare it to similar non-hybrid vehicles. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

No better mileage than a Jetta TDI? Maybe. I've never driven a Jetta TDI. But a base Jetta TDI costs quite a bit more than a base Prius.

Toxic process to make the batteries? Who gives a crap?

Electrocution hazard? Has anyone proven this or shown any credible evidence that it poses a greater risk of this than any other car?

If you're not looking at buying one tho, ask yourself: Why do you care so much about what other people drive that you're on a web board looking for argument points?

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:09:04 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

Apples and Oranges. Try comparing a Camry to a Camry hybrid or Civic to a Civic hybrid.

Edit: My point/figure was for regular vehicles fitted with hybrid technology.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:09:58 PM EDT

[#3]

Every time a Prius is made:

China executes one female child.
An old growth tree in the Redwood Forest withers and dies.
An old Native American man wearing feathers stands on a hill and weeps.
A dead sucide bomber is granted 70 more virgins.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:10:52 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

Apples and Oranges. Try comparing a Camry to a Camry hybrid or Civic to a Civic hybrid.

Edit: My point/figure was for regular vehicles fitted with hybrid technology.

But the consumer isn't forced into making that limited choice.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:11:33 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

O rly?

From: www.motortrend.com/cars/2007/toyota/prius/base_sedan/341/comparisons/index.html

Toyota Prius
MSRP $22,175.00

Chevrolet Malibu Maxx LT
MSRP $20,480.00

Once again, do your own math, folks. Don't rely on people with an obvious bias to do the math for you.

eta: You would have been better off making the comparison with the Honda Civic DX. Its quite a bit cheaper than the Prius. Doesn't get quite as good gas mileage, tho.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:13:17 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

O rly?

From: www.motortrend.com/cars/2007/toyota/prius/base_sedan/341/comparisons/index.html

Toyota Prius
MSRP $22,175.00

Chevrolet Malibu Maxx LT
MSRP $20,480.00

Once again, do your own math, folks. Don't rely on people with an obvious bias to do the math for you.

NOBODY is getting a Prius for MSRP.
They're backordered for months, as it is.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:14:49 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Long story short; we have relatives in town and some of the distant in-law's are coming over. They are Prius-driving, birkenstock bald-in-the-front/ponytail-in-the-back, 50-going-on-60-something hippie throwbacks who are going to come driving their Toyota Prius.

They spend their whole time bashing Republicans on every conceivable issue, so I won't try to enumerate them here.

ANYWAY, I have heard many reasons NOT to buy a Prius, but I need to get them all together with documented proof (no Snopes BS). When they get around to their Prius (lib-tard dick extension) I need something to come back with.

1. No better mileage than many compacts including the Volkswagen diesel Jetta.

2. Toxic manufacturing process of the rechargeable batteries.

3. Electrocution hazard at accident scenes.

Any others would be GREATLY appreciated.

Ask them what its like driving their dream vehicle. Oh, they aren't.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:16:58 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

I actually drive 20K a year. Over a 200,000 mile driving period, at $4 to the gallon, the Malibu will use around $27,000 in gas. A Prius will almost always get at least 50MPG from what I've seen, though I usually see around 60MPG, driving safely. At YOUR numbers, a Prius will use around $18,000 in gas. At numbers I see frequently, it'll use around $14,000-16,000. Your math was good, too bad your equation wasn't..

Edit: That 1.5 year number was quoted from a study between regular/hybrid versions of one of Toyota or Honda's cars, not from Prius vs. Random Sedan. But even then, you still save more money.

Just because a bunch of hippies happened to have latched onto it doesn't mean it's not economically sound.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:17:20 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
...

So it beats a VW TDI?

Probably not. I finally got to put several miles on the local TDI demo car today, with long cruises at various speeds similar to the way I really drive, with AC on and off.

I'm guessing I can pull off 40 to 42 mpg or maybe just a little better at 75 mph with the air on. About 54 to 55 at 60 to 65 mph with the air off. If the fuel flow meter ain't lyin'.

I'm 90% convinced to place a deposit. I have a feeling the car will be easy to sell if I don't like something.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:17:38 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

O rly?

From: www.motortrend.com/cars/2007/toyota/prius/base_sedan/341/comparisons/index.html

Toyota Prius
MSRP $22,175.00

Chevrolet Malibu Maxx LT
MSRP $20,480.00

Once again, do your own math, folks. Don't rely on people with an obvious bias to do the math for you.

NOBODY is getting a Prius for MSRP.
They're backordered for months, as it is.

Yeah, if you really want the car NOW and are willing to pay through the nose to get it right now, sure. You can overpay for anything, if you really really want to.

My parents got one new a few years ago for a little less than msrp, back before the craze hit. Then, when their popularity skyrocketed, they sold their fairly well-used one for what the new ones were going for and ordered a brand new one. They didn't have to get it right then, they were patient and didn't overpay.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:17:52 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

Apples and Oranges. Try comparing a Camry to a Camry hybrid or Civic to a Civic hybrid.

Edit: My point/figure was for regular vehicles fitted with hybrid technology.

Yet again, you're trying to box a kangaroo, but I can keep going. I'll stick to the Malibu. The regular one with the 2.4L engine has an MSRP of about $19K. The hybrid has an MSRP of about $25K. The EPA rates the regular one at 22/32. The hybrid is rated at 24/32 both by the new standards. So basically, I get to spend $6K more for the same car, and I only get 2MPG in the CITY for it? I'll be at the dealer first thing on Monday. Hybrid really loses in this case.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:19:54 PM EDT

[#12]

Proper planning. That is why we are where we are right now. People bought what they could afford the fuel for when it was $1.50 a gallon. They didn't think it could triple. Fail train.

I bought my VW TDI back in 2002, used at 2 years old and 50k miles. Why? Because I knew fuel wouldn't be cheap forever and supposedly, this engine would last another 200k miles. Well, it would have, had I not gotten gasoline contaminated diesel which toasted the injection pump.

Then the stealership installed a leaking pump, dripping diesel on the alternator and AC compressor, both of which failed shortly after. And the stealership that changed the timing belt messed up twice, once when it left the lot and again 4000 miles down the road from reuse of torque to yield bolts. The damage wasn't noted for another 80k miles. By the time the damage manifested itself, it needed a new piston/connecting rod and cylinder head. Another $1500 down the hole.

But it is back up, running fine and needing oil changes every 10k miles. Current consumption is 48 MPG at 70 MPH. It drops down to 35 MPG with two bikes on the top doing 80 MPH. Not bad. 0-60 MPH is 8.5 seconds too. I installed aftermarket injectors in the overhaul as one had been smashed.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:20:13 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

I actually drive 20K a year. Over a 200,000 mile driving period, at $4 to the gallon, the Malibu will use around $27,000 in gas. A Prius will almost always get at least 50MPG from what I've seen, though I usually see around 60MPG, driving safely. At YOUR numbers, a Prius will use around $18,000 in gas. At numbers I see frequently, it'll use around $14,000-16,000. Your math was good, too bad your equation wasn't..

Edit: That 1.5 year number was quoted from a study between regular/hybrid versions of one of Toyota or Honda's cars, not from Prius vs. Random Sedan. But even then, you still save more money.

Just because a bunch of hippies happened to have latched onto it doesn't mean it's not economically sound.

But that isn't a 1.5 yr break even, is it?

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:21:09 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

Apples and Oranges. Try comparing a Camry to a Camry hybrid or Civic to a Civic hybrid.

Edit: My point/figure was for regular vehicles fitted with hybrid technology.

Yet again, you're trying to box a kangaroo, but I can keep going. I'll stick to the Malibu. The regular one with the 2.4L engine has an MSRP of about $19K. The hybrid has an MSRP of about $25K. The EPA rates the regular one at 22/32. The hybrid is rated at 24/32 both by the new standards. So basically, I get to spend $6K more for the same car, and I only get 2MPG in the CITY for it? I'll be at the dealer first thing on Monday. Hybrid really loses in this case.

Try a Honda or Toyota. It's no secret that American hybrids suck. Read my previous post on the Saturn hybrid. Just the cost difference between regular and hybrid can't be made up over the life of the vehicle. But that's not the case with Honda/Toyota.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:22:19 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

I actually drive 20K a year. Over a 200,000 mile driving period, at $4 to the gallon, the Malibu will use around $27,000 in gas. A Prius will almost always get at least 50MPG from what I've seen, though I usually see around 60MPG, driving safely. At YOUR numbers, a Prius will use around $18,000 in gas. At numbers I see frequently, it'll use around $14,000-16,000. Your math was good, too bad your equation wasn't..

Edit: That 1.5 year number was quoted from a study between regular/hybrid versions of one of Toyota or Honda's cars, not from Prius vs. Random Sedan. But even then, you still save more money.

Just because a bunch of hippies happened to have latched onto it doesn't mean it's not economically sound.

But that isn't a 1.5 yr break even, is it?

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:22:33 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

Apples and Oranges. Try comparing a Camry to a Camry hybrid or Civic to a Civic hybrid.

Edit: My point/figure was for regular vehicles fitted with hybrid technology.

Yet again, you're trying to box a kangaroo, but I can keep going. I'll stick to the Malibu. The regular one with the 2.4L engine has an MSRP of about $19K. The hybrid has an MSRP of about $25K. The EPA rates the regular one at 22/32. The hybrid is rated at 24/32 both by the new standards. So basically, I get to spend $6K more for the same car, and I only get 2MPG in the CITY for it? I'll be at the dealer first thing on Monday. Hybrid really loses in this case.

$1695 price difference. Not $6k.

And I can set the cruise on a prius at 70mph and get about 40mpg. Not estimates. It GETS this. Fact. At 60mph, it gets almost 60mpg. I've seen it with my own eyes.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:23:24 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Electrocution hazard? Has anyone proven this or shown any credible evidence that it poses a greater risk of this than any other car?

Take one finger of each hand. Apply one to each terminal on a normal 12v car battery.
Ok - you survived that.

Now, take these same two fingers and apply one to each terminal on the 240v battery in the Prius.

Oh --- you seem to be dead.
Pity about that ....

If you don't know - 240 WILL kill you stone dead.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:23:52 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Proper planning. That is why we are where we are right now. People bought what they could afford the fuel for when it was $1.50 a gallon. They didn't think it could triple. Fail train.

I bought my VW TDI back in 2002, used at 2 years old and 50k miles. Why? Because I knew fuel wouldn't be cheap forever and supposedly, this engine would last another 200k miles. Well, it would have, had I not gotten gasoline contaminated diesel which toasted the injection pump.

Then the stealership installed a leaking pump, dripping diesel on the alternator and AC compressor, both of which failed shortly after. And the stealership that changed the timing belt messed up twice, once when it left the lot and again 4000 miles down the road from reuse of torque to yield bolts. The damage wasn't noted for another 80k miles. By the time the damage manifested itself, it needed a new piston/connecting rod and cylinder head. Another $1500 down the hole.

But it is back up, running fine and needing oil changes every 10k miles. Current consumption is 48 MPG at 70 MPH. It drops down to 35 MPG with two bikes on the top doing 80 MPH. Not bad. 0-60 MPH is 8.5 seconds too. I installed aftermarket injectors in the overhaul as one had been smashed.

Wow, thats pretty damn good gas mileage at 70. I guess it does beat the Prius at higher speeds, for mileage.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:25:23 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Electrocution hazard? Has anyone proven this or shown any credible evidence that it poses a greater risk of this than any other car?

Take one finger of each hand. Apply one to each terminal on a normal 12v car battery.
Ok - you survived that.

Now, take these same two fingers and apply one to each terminal on the 240v battery in the Prius.

Oh --- you seem to be dead.
Pity about that ....

If you don't know - 240 WILL kill you stone dead.

Light a cigarrette.

You'll be fine.

Light it while standing in a puddle of gasoline.

You'll be dead...

WTF is your point?

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:25:48 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Electrocution hazard? Has anyone proven this or shown any credible evidence that it poses a greater risk of this than any other car?

Take one finger of each hand. Apply one to each terminal on a normal 12v car battery.
Ok - you survived that.

Now, take these same two fingers and apply one to each terminal on the 240v battery in the Prius.

Oh --- you seem to be dead.
Pity about that ....

If you don't know - 240 WILL kill you stone dead.

Yeah, I guess we should ban motor homes, too. All those scary high voltage outlets, you know?

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:26:07 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I actually drive 20K a year.

Okay, I'll do 20K a year. Malibu- $2700/yr. Prius- $1700/yr. Prius saves $83 a month. So for that $7K more, you can expect to break even in about 7 years. Most people don't keep a car that long. I think the Malibu is the winner. It even looks better than the Prius, although it could bear a striking resembelence to a horse's ass and it'll still look better than Prius.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:27:36 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Electrocution hazard? Has anyone proven this or shown any credible evidence that it poses a greater risk of this than any other car?

Take one finger of each hand. Apply one to each terminal on a normal 12v car battery.
Ok - you survived that.

Now, take these same two fingers and apply one to each terminal on the 240v battery in the Prius.

Oh --- you seem to be dead.
Pity about that ....

If you don't know - 240 WILL kill you stone dead.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:27:54 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think your equation is flawed. When I say "break even" I'm talking about the difference in price between a hybrid and a similar, non-hybrid vehicle. Breaking even any other way is impossible with ANY vehicle, except maybe a bike.

Okay, I'll play that game too. I'd say the 2008 Malibu is comparable to the Prius, in size, class, etc. The Malibu MSRP is about $19K. Prius is selling for about $26K. The Malibu with the 3.5L is rated at 29 MPG highway. A Prius will do about 45 MPg on the highway. 12K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon. Malibu- $1655 a year for fuel. Prius, $1066. The Prius will save you a whopping $49 a month on fuel. By spending $7K more on the Prius, it'll take you 11 years to recoup the difference. That's a far cry from 1.5, sir. Again, you fail. The Prius is a loser, in every sense of the word.

I actually drive 20K a year. Over a 200,000 mile driving period, at $4 to the gallon, the Malibu will use around $27,000 in gas. A Prius will almost always get at least 50MPG from what I've seen, though I usually see around 60MPG, driving safely. At YOUR numbers, a Prius will use around $18,000 in gas. At numbers I see frequently, it'll use around $14,000-16,000. Your math was good, too bad your equation wasn't..

Edit: That 1.5 year number was quoted from a study between regular/hybrid versions of one of Toyota or Honda's cars, not from Prius vs. Random Sedan. But even then, you still save more money.

Just because a bunch of hippies happened to have latched onto it doesn't mean it's not economically sound.

But that isn't a 1.5 yr break even, is it?

\But again, no one is forced into deciding between those two options. It's so contrived...

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:29:09 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I actually drive 20K a year.

Okay, I'll do 20K a year. Malibu- $2700/yr. Prius- $1700/yr. Prius saves $83 a month. So for that $7K more, you can expect to break even in about 7 years. Most people don't keep a car that long. I think the Malibu is the winner. It even looks better than the Prius, although it could bear a striking resembelence to a horse's ass and it'll still look better than Prius.

I guess you didn't read the whole post huh?

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:31:53 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
You're going to have a heard time to find something. Prius owners love them, they are reliable and the cost of ownership is no greater. The batteries aren't as bad as they are made out to be and they get the same mileage as the TDI. Using cheaper fuel.

+1

That will be my wife's next car.
I have no problem not buying as much Arab oil.
It is an anti-terrorist weapon.

Bill

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:31:55 PM EDT

[#26]

\But again, no one is forced into deciding between those two options. It's so contrived...

Well at these gas prices, you'd be foolish not to buy, say, a Camry hybrid over a regular Camry. If you kept the car for more than a few years, you'll break even (vs. the non-hybrid Camry).

I mean, each person's situation is different, but I think the free-market is speaking for hybrids pretty strongly at the moment.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm against buying a hybrid because it's a hybrid. Each one is different, and your results are totally dependant on dozens of individualized factors, but they're still a good idea.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:37:44 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're going to have a heard time to find something. Prius owners love them, they are reliable and the cost of ownership is no greater. The batteries aren't as bad as they are made out to be and they get the same mileage as the TDI. Using cheaper fuel.

+1

That will be my wife's next car.
I have no problem not buying as much Arab oil.
It is an anti-terrorist weapon.

Bill

Most of the oil this country uses comes from Mexico and Canada, you did know that, right?

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:39:41 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

\But again, no one is forced into deciding between those two options. It's so contrived...

Well at these gas prices, you'd be foolish not to buy, say, a Camry hybrid over a regular Camry. If you kept the car for more than a few years, you'll break even (vs. the non-hybrid Camry).

I mean, each person's situation is different, but I think the free-market is speaking for hybrids pretty strongly at the moment.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm against buying a hybrid because it's a hybrid. Each one is different, and your results are totally dependant on dozens of individualized factors, but they're still a good idea.

Well, we might be arguing about nothing then. I agree with what you just said.

As long as it's a free market decision...

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:44:45 PM EDT

[#29]

So, how long is the Prius rated to drive for? I highly doubt it is rated to 200,000 miles. If it is, please enlighten me.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:47:19 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
So, how long is the Prius rated to drive for? I highly doubt it is rated to 200,000 miles. If it is, please enlighten me.

Like any car, it isn't rated for anything. But there are Prius cabs that are in the high 200's and going strong. They claim that they've never replaced a battery for wear.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:47:39 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're going to have a heard time to find something. Prius owners love them, they are reliable and the cost of ownership is no greater. The batteries aren't as bad as they are made out to be and they get the same mileage as the TDI. Using cheaper fuel.

+1

That will be my wife's next car.
I have no problem not buying as much Arab oil.
It is an anti-terrorist weapon.

Bill

Most of the oil this country uses comes from Mexico and Canada, you did know that, right?

I don't know that now either.

Bill

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:49:04 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So, how long is the Prius rated to drive for? I highly doubt it is rated to 200,000 miles. If it is, please enlighten me.

Like any car, it isn't rated for anything. But there are Prius cabs that are in the high 200's and going strong. They claim that they've never replaced a battery for wear.

Toyota has (imo) a well-deserved reputation for making reliable, long-lasting vehicles. I don't see why it would be any different for the Prius.

They are, after all, on their 3rd generation of this type of car.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:54:40 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're going to have a heard time to find something. Prius owners love them, they are reliable and the cost of ownership is no greater. The batteries aren't as bad as they are made out to be and they get the same mileage as the TDI. Using cheaper fuel.

+1

That will be my wife's next car.
I have no problem not buying as much Arab oil.
It is an anti-terrorist weapon.

Bill

Most of the oil this country uses comes from Mexico and Canada, you did know that, right?

I don't know that now either.

Bill

Irrelevant. As long as someone is buying Iranian oil then we have a problem. Reduced demand will reduce price across the board and that means you can prevent Chinese dollars (or renminbi as the case may be) from going to Iran.

Posted: 7/19/2008 5:57:08 PM EDT

[#34]

Yeesh, its just a car. There isn't any reason to bash it.

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:02:47 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Long story short; we have relatives in town and some of the distant in-law's are coming over. They are Prius-driving, birkenstock bald-in-the-front/ponytail-in-the-back, 50-going-on-60-something hippie throwbacks who are going to come driving their Toyota Prius.

They spend their whole time bashing Republicans on every conceivable issue, so I won't try to enumerate them here.

ANYWAY, I have heard many reasons NOT to buy a Prius, but I need to get them all together with documented proof (no Snopes BS). When they get around to their Prius (lib-tard dick extension) I need something to come back with.

1. No better mileage than many compacts including the Volkswagen diesel Jetta.

2. Toxic manufacturing process of the rechargeable batteries.

3. Electrocution hazard at accident scenes.

Any others would be GREATLY appreciated.

Whole thread on the subject here:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=722521

It is near impossible for you to ever recover the price difference between a hybrid and a conventional gas-powered compact car....

The gas savings simply aren't enough (See above thread)...

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:05:17 PM EDT

[#36]

Dave, your argument about the Prius and the Aveo is like comparing a Ranger to a Super Duty.

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:07:36 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Dave, your argument about the Prius and the Aveo is like comparing a Ranger to a Super Duty.

Hardly... Both the Aveo and the Prius are subcompact-class cars...

If I was picking on the Camry hybrid you might have a point - but I'm not....

And you can go 'larger' in various brands for a thousand or two more, without breaking the equation...

P.S. When you pick a decent 'pre-owned' sedan, it breaks out even worse for the Prius....

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:09:39 PM EDT

[#38]

I don't care what they are classed as, the Prius has a spacious interior. The classification has more to do with how much parking lot they shade.

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:11:50 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I don't care what they are classed as, the Prius has a spacious interior. The classification has more to do with how much parking lot they shade.

It is the smug factor. Dilates space.

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:13:06 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're going to have a heard time to find something. Prius owners love them, they are reliable and the cost of ownership is no greater. The batteries aren't as bad as they are made out to be and they get the same mileage as the TDI. Using cheaper fuel.

+1

That will be my wife's next car.
I have no problem not buying as much Arab oil.
It is an anti-terrorist weapon.

Bill

Most of the oil this country uses comes from Mexico and Canada, you did know that, right?

I don't know that now either.

Bill

Irrelevant. As long as someone is buying Iranian oil then we have a problem. Reduced demand will reduce price across the board and that means you can prevent Chinese dollars (or renminbi as the case may be) from going to Iran.

If they have it, they will sell it. And oil isn't the reason the Iranians hate us.

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:21:52 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

So it beats a VW TDI?

Per Edmunds, yes.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=46nMnCt75qI

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:22:07 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Proper planning. That is why we are where we are right now. People bought what they could afford the fuel for when it was $1.50 a gallon. They didn't think it could triple. Fail train.

I bought my VW TDI back in 2002, used at 2 years old and 50k miles. Why? Because I knew fuel wouldn't be cheap forever and supposedly, this engine would last another 200k miles. Well, it would have, had I not gotten gasoline contaminated diesel which toasted the injection pump.

Then the stealership installed a leaking pump, dripping diesel on the alternator and AC compressor, both of which failed shortly after. And the stealership that changed the timing belt messed up twice, once when it left the lot and again 4000 miles down the road from reuse of torque to yield bolts. The damage wasn't noted for another 80k miles. By the time the damage manifested itself, it needed a new piston/connecting rod and cylinder head. Another $1500 down the hole.

But it is back up, running fine and needing oil changes every 10k miles. Current consumption is 48 MPG at 70 MPH. It drops down to 35 MPG with two bikes on the top doing 80 MPH. Not bad. 0-60 MPH is 8.5 seconds too. I installed aftermarket injectors in the overhaul as one had been smashed.

Wow, thats pretty damn good gas mileage at 70. I guess it does beat the Prius at higher speeds, for mileage.

TORQUE FTW!!

And Keith, it's nearly impossible to find a decent diesel mechanic, especially one familiar with the new motors. I feel your pain.

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:22:48 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I don't care what they are classed as, the Prius has a spacious interior. The classification has more to do with how much parking lot they shade.

A smart fortwo has better elbow room than most light airplanes. Also good headroom and adequate leg room. Plus three medium bags of groceries behind the seats.

That's subcompact car.

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:34:28 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Proper planning. That is why we are where we are right now. People bought what they could afford the fuel for when it was $1.50 a gallon. They didn't think it could triple. Fail train.

I bought my VW TDI back in 2002, used at 2 years old and 50k miles. Why? Because I knew fuel wouldn't be cheap forever and supposedly, this engine would last another 200k miles. Well, it would have, had I not gotten gasoline contaminated diesel which toasted the injection pump.

Then the stealership installed a leaking pump, dripping diesel on the alternator and AC compressor, both of which failed shortly after. And the stealership that changed the timing belt messed up twice, once when it left the lot and again 4000 miles down the road from reuse of torque to yield bolts. The damage wasn't noted for another 80k miles. By the time the damage manifested itself, it needed a new piston/connecting rod and cylinder head. Another $1500 down the hole.

But it is back up, running fine and needing oil changes every 10k miles. Current consumption is 48 MPG at 70 MPH. It drops down to 35 MPG with two bikes on the top doing 80 MPH. Not bad. 0-60 MPH is 8.5 seconds too. I installed aftermarket injectors in the overhaul as one had been smashed.

Wow, thats pretty damn good gas mileage at 70. I guess it does beat the Prius at higher speeds, for mileage.

TORQUE FTW!!

And Keith, it's nearly impossible to find a decent diesel mechanic, especially one familiar with the new motors. I feel your pain.

That is why I spin the wrenches. Once bitten...I even made my own tools for timing belt changes. Not only do they work, they work better. And I spent $3 on the materials. The camshaft holding block is solid 6061 T6 aircraft grade. I milled it in a jig, using a hand-held router. The injection pump holder was turned from 1/4" steel rod using a lathe file in the drill press. And the tensioner wrench was made from steel bar and a worn-out Dremel bit for the pins.

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:57:06 PM EDT

[#45]

you have a car that goes X miles per gallon, prius goes Y miles per gallon, you drive Z miles per year

So (Z multiplied by X) minus (Z multiplied by X) = gallons of gas saved per year = A

But is that the end of it? No! How many gallons of gas are used to gather the metals and plastics to make a prius, and how much energy is spent moving them to the factory, and how much energy is spent assembling the prius, and shipping it to the dealer?

We'll call that B, energy consumed creating a Prius.

How many years of A does it take to make up for B?

If you drive a hummer, maybe just a few years, but if you drive a Dodge Neon, maybe 100 years.

If you are going to buy a new car and you never owned one before, great, get a Prius or a Jetta, or whatever. If your old vehicle dies, great, get a Prius or a Jetta, or whatever.

But what about something smallish midsized, like a Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Ford Focus, or even a little bit bigger midsized like a Ford Taurus.

Ask them if they did that calculation, and if not, why not?

As them if they like the idea of a car owner tossing a car in the garbage heap every time a fancy new hip toy that gets a few more miles per gallon comes along, like it was a slighly used pair of shoes that went out of style, or a fast food wrapper.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:08:23 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Electrocution hazard? Has anyone proven this or shown any credible evidence that it poses a greater risk of this than any other car?

Take one finger of each hand. Apply one to each terminal on a normal 12v car battery.
Ok - you survived that.

Now, take these same two fingers and apply one to each terminal on the 240v battery in the Prius.

Oh --- you seem to be dead.
Pity about that ....

If you don't know - 240 WILL kill you stone dead.

That's a rather silly comparison. Even flagrantly ignoring all the safety procedures set by the manufacturers, you have to try really, really, really hard to electrocute yourself working on a hybrid vehicle today.

ETA - And FWIW, hybrid vehicles nowadays operate north of 300V. There are redundant safeties for the high voltage system that just about make it damn near impossible to "ride the lightning" (so to speak) on one inadvertently. And to clarify, I ain't really a fan of hybrid vehicles, but I know enough about them to dispel some common misconceptions.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hivemind Help I need ALL the reasons that the Prius is for kool-aide drinkers (Page 2 of 2)

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