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Posted: 9/24/2017 10:24:14 PM EDT
Hello all.
This is going to be such a dumb question to many of you... I apologize in advance. I have never lived on a concrete slab (Maybe in college in the dorm--no idea about that.) I'm putting up a building in my back yard. It will be storage/shop (16' X 28'--16' high at the eaves) also a man cave for uxb in the upstairs of that, and on the side is an extension (16' X 18') which will be a (one-story) guest room (when the Murphy bed is pulled down) and most days, a studio for me. The big part of the building will be polished concrete for the lower floor. Not worried about that. Nobody will be walking on that barefooted. There will be a bathroom, which I will tile. I haven't decided what flooring to put on the guest room, but it might be tile too, since I just purchased a pallet of 8 X 48" gorgeous hardwood-look tile at a great price (AND BEFORE I GET A GAZILLION COMMENTS ABOUT THE LARGE FORMAT TILE, NO, I AM NOT AFRAID OF LAYING THIS TILE. YES, I KNOW HOW TO DO IT RIGHT, THOUGH INPUT FROM EXPERIENCED TILE PEOPLE IS ALWAYS WELCOME. HAPPY TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION, BUT NOT HERE. ) Anyway...My fear? I think the floor in the bathroom and the guest room is going to be freezing cold 9 months out of the year. Because I've never lived on a slab (always old houses--built over basements or crawl spaces) I don't understand slabs. I don't know how to live comfortably on a slab. I'm doing research, watching videos, talking to people (some builders I know--mostly they seem to not care, since they hand over the key and leave, so they have nothing of use to offer--maybe I don't know good builders. ) So...Do you live on a slab? Do you build houses on slabs? Do you lay tile or other flooring on slabs? Are your floors cold? If not, how do you keep them from being cold? I'm looking at the do-it-yourself, under-tile, applied-with-thinset heating systems that claim it will cost me a dollar per month per ten square feet. Yeah, I am not convinced that stuff will last past month three. Also not convinced it won't spin the electric meter like crazy, and once it's under the tile, what are you going to do about it? Nothing. That's what. Can any of you speak to this? Any homebuilders who can talk about life on a concrete slab? Anybody have suggestions or thoughts to put my mind at ease? Should I plan on spending a week with a bang gun putting down plywood to insulate that cold-ass floor? (this seems stupid). We poured footers on Friday. Block goes in on Tuesday. I'm roughing in the plumbing this week, then we'll pour the slab. It is Kentucky but a cold floor can be cold year-round even here. I'm freaking out a little about my floors turning me and my guests into Snow Miser. Help? Reassurance? Tell me to move south, to hurricane country? Anything? Thanks in advance, Kitties |
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run hot water thru the slab View Quote Heating water is out highest cost for energy use here. (It's the biggest part of our electric bill.) Natural gas is not available here. Propane heating of water costs too much. I am interested in this method. Would love to be able to afford geothermal installation. But that's not in the budget. |
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slab on grade or stem wall? View Quote Footer poured. Guy will lay block, then pour slab involving the block walls. Guessing that's a stem wall, but maybe not? Basically it's slab on grade, but has footers and a block perimeter. Not a monolithic slab. |
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Insulate under the slab with r10 foundation insulation.
Make sure there is a thermal break between slab and foundation wall. Radiant heat under the slab is good, but the boilers are expensive. If you go tile, there is also radiant electrical mesh that embeds in the mortar base. I put some in a tiled bathroom in our basement. I keep it just warm enough so the floor isn't uncomfortably cold on bare feet. |
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Insulate under the slab with r10 foundation insulation. Make sure there is a thermal break between slab and foundation wall. Radiant heat under the slab is good, but the boilers are expensive. If you go tile, there is also radiant electrical mesh that embeds in the mortar base. I put some in a tiled bathroom in our basement. I keep it just warm enough so the floor isn't uncomfortably cold on bare feet. View Quote Can you explain the thermal break between slab and foundation? What I don't know is a little overwhelming. |
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Seriously, I hope that's not the only answer. I hate carpet. Rugs are for decoration. View Quote In all seriousness a friend of mine did a warm tile system in his basement bathroom, has a thermostat on the wall for temp control. He put it in about 6 yrs ago and it still works great. Ill see him tomorrow at work and ask him the manufacture name. |
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Never lived on anything other than concrete slabs. Floors aren't cold. But the again I live in FL.
Subfloors and shit are weird to me. |
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FPNI In all seriousness a friend of mine did a warm tile system in his basement bathroom, has a thermostat on the wall for temp control. He put it in about 6 yrs ago and it still works great. Ill see him tomorrow at work and ask him the manufacture name. View Quote Thanks in advance if you can ask and relay it here. Kitties |
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Your foundation stem wall should be insulated. It could be insulated on the outside of the wall up to the top of th e wall. Then you need some sort of protection board covering the insulation so you can't destroy it with a weed eater or something.
If the insulation is on the inside and terminates at the under side of the slab you have a cold edge. Ie. Cold exposed foundation wall in direct contact with the slab edge makes for a cold slab. If you run insulation all the way up on the inside you have 2" of exposed insulation to deal with. I'm not familiar enough with the iecc, or if your building code officials have adopted the iecc. You could check with them and see if a 1/2" asphalt expansion board between the slab and the foundation would be an adequate thermal break. I.e. r10 insulation to inside of foundation wall, terminate at underside of slab, 1/2" asphalt expansion board at slab edge, r10 insulation under slab (and a vapor barrier, usually 10 mil visqueen) Summary of iecc. You're zone 4 I think. Less restrictive than we are (zone 6) there are a couple images on oh 48 that show slab edge conditions. Iecc summary |
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I put electric radiant heat in my master bathroom. Small area and was ~$400 for materials. I didn’t do a whole lot of research and bought SunTouch from the big orange store.
Electric systems come in mats or loose wire. The mats are basically those orange construction fencing that you see with the wire ran through them. The loose wire is intended for bigger/non-rectangular installs. A couple things to know is that it can be fairly expensive to install. My 7’x2’ mat was around $150. It should be embedded in self leveling concrete which will add an eighth or quarter inch height to the floor. The heat doesn’t travel really more than 2 inches away from where the wire is. So any gaps will have very obvious cold spots. We only turn it on in the winter and keep the thermostat at 82 degrees which is very comfortable to our bare feet touch. Other advantage is that it also provides heat to the room itself. You can even run it under a shower floor. (We didn’t think to do that) |
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Your foundation stem wall should be insulated. It could be insulated on the outside of the wall up to the top of th e wall. Then you need some sort of protection board covering the insulation so you can't destroy it with a weed eater or something. If the insulation is on the inside and terminates at the under side of the slab you have a cold edge. Ie. Cold exposed foundation wall in direct contact with the slab edge makes for a cold slab. If you run insulation all the way up on the inside you have 2" of exposed insulation to deal with. I'm not familiar enough with the iecc, or if your building code officials have adopted the iecc. You could check with them and see if a 1/2" asphalt expansion board between the slab and the foundation would be an adequate thermal break. I.e. r10 insulation to inside of foundation wall, terminate at underside of slab, 1/2" asphalt expansion board at slab edge, r10 insulation under slab (and a vapor barrier, usually 10 mil visqueen) Summary of iecc. You're zone 4 I think. Less restrictive than we are (zone 6) there are a couple images on oh 48 that show slab edge conditions. Iecc summary View Quote You might be looking at a different zone system though. I default to the ag/plant hardiness zone system. |
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I put electric radiant heat in my master bathroom. Small area and was ~$400 for materials. I didn’t do a whole lot of research and bought SunTouch from the big orange store. Electric systems come in mats or loose wire. The mats are basically those orange construction fencing that you see with the wire ran through them. The loose wire is intended for bigger/non-rectangular installs. A couple things to know is that it can be fairly expensive to install. My 7’x2’ mat was around $150. It should be embedded in self leveling concrete which will add an eighth or quarter inch height to the floor. The heat doesn’t travel really more than 2 inches away from where the wire is. So any gaps will have very obvious cold spots. We only turn it on in the winter and keep the thermostat at 82 degrees which is very comfortable to our bare feet touch. Other advantage is that it also provides heat to the room itself. You can even run it under a shower floor. (We didn’t think to do that) View Quote |
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Do you have any sense of how much it adds to your electric bill? ( I ask it this way because i f you built a new house and put this in, you never had a "normal" bill without this included.) View Quote |
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We have a slab (north Texas). The kitchen/dining is some sort of wood laminate (it came with the house, so who knows exactly), and the bathrooms are tile. Even in the summer, the tile floors are noticeably cooler than the laminate. In the winter, the tile is pretty chilly, but in the winter I only ever walk barefoot to and from the shower. I have no idea what tile in the living areas would do to the warmth of the room; hopefully someone could answer that question for you.
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Seriously, I hope that's not the only answer. I hate carpet. Rugs are for decoration. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Rugs Seriously, I hope that's not the only answer. I hate carpet. Rugs are for decoration. The rug itself will still be cool but it does not transfer heat well enough so it does not feel that way to touch. Frost depth in your location? Often only the edges of a slab on grade ar all that cold. Probably should have placed some insulation under the slab. |
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After speaking with my friend, he used a product called Warmtiles, 240v. He bought it from Menards.
Says it works great |
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If you don't heart the bathroom floor, at least go with vinyl flooring for a little insulating value.
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So...Do you live on a slab? Do you build houses on slabs? Do you lay tile or other flooring on slabs? Are your floors cold? If not, how do you keep them from being cold?[/b] I'm looking at the do-it-yourself, under-tile, applied-with-thinset heating systems that claim it will cost me a dollar per month per ten square feet. Yeah, I am not convinced that stuff will last past month three. View Quote 1) follow the advice above about having a thermal break. also, ensure that you have a vapor barrier (visqueen or equivalent) under the slab. 2) under the tile, use Schluter Ditra or Ditra XL (the XL is "taller" -- but this means you will have a larger transition differential to deal with). https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Membranes/Uncoupling-%28DITRA%29/c/M-U the Ditra will make a nice difference in how the tile feels from a temperature perspective. (note, i'm leaving aside all of the other good reasons to use Ditra -- decoupling, moisture barrier, etc.) Ditra is super easy to apply; mix up some "pancake batter" consistency thinset (just thick enough to hold an edge), trowel it out, and roll the Ditra on top of it. flatten/press using a magnesium trowel, and come back in 6 hours. then you can start the actual tile work. see page 8: https://sccpublic.s3-external-1.amazonaws.com/sys-master/images/hcb/h67/8815748186142/DITRA%20Installation%20Handbook.pdf 3) if you don't think just the Ditra will make enough of a temperature difference, or you have super-sensitive girl feet, Schluter makes a Ditra version compatible with their heat ribbon. you will need to plan for the power needed and for the wire routing etc -- but you can have super-warm girl feet 24x7x365 if you want. https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Floor-Warming/c/FW ar-jedi below is over plywood underlay, but applying Ditra is the same deal over concrete ... BUT ... you must use unmodified thinset on top of the Ditra to set the tiles. |
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1) follow the advice above about having a thermal break. also, ensure that you have a vapor barrier (visqueen or equivalent) under the slab. 2) under the tile, use Schluter Ditra or Ditra XL (the XL is "taller" -- but this means you will have a larger transition differential to deal with). https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Membranes/Uncoupling-%28DITRA%29/c/M-U the Ditra will make a nice difference in how the tile feels from a temperature perspective. (note, i'm leaving aside all of the other good reasons to use Ditra -- decoupling, moisture barrier, etc.) Ditra is super easy to apply; mix up some "pancake batter" consistency thinset (just thick enough to hold an edge), trowel it out, and roll the Ditra on top of it. flatten/press using a magnesium trowel, and come back in 6 hours. then you can start the actual tile work. see page 8: https://sccpublic.s3-external-1.amazonaws.com/sys-master/images/hcb/h67/8815748186142/DITRA%20Installation%20Handbook.pdf 3) if you don't think just the Ditra will make enough of a temperature difference, or you have super-sensitive girl feet, Schluter makes a Ditra version compatible with their heat ribbon. you will need to plan for the power needed and for the wire routing etc -- but you can have super-warm girl feet 24x7x365 if you want. https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Floor-Warming/c/FW ar-jedi below is over plywood underlay, but applying Ditra is the same deal over concrete ... BUT ... you must use unmodified thinset on top of the Ditra to set the tiles. http://ziva.losdos.dyndns.org/gallery2/d/70160-2/IMG_7317.JPG http://ziva.losdos.dyndns.org/gallery2/d/70135-2/IMG_7320.JPG http://ziva.losdos.dyndns.org/gallery2/d/70149-2/IMG_7584.JPG http://ziva.losdos.dyndns.org/gallery2/d/70166-2/IMG_7608.JPG View Quote On concrete, my sense is that there is more potential reason to use it (the uncoupling is one of the big assets, for me--I am considering Ditra on a rehab I'm managing in the nearby town, where there is a small crack in the subfloor that's making me worry.) but there are other uncoupling membranes out there. Is your experience with Ditra proving it is better than others of its ilk? I did NOT know about the temperature moderation advantages of Ditra. That's going to make me take a second look for certain. |
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1" XPS foam, then 3/4" advantech, then padding/carpet or tile/etc. No need for heated flooring. No cold feet at all. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/60523/120313-996-128336.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/60523/iphone-286-128343.jpg View Quote ETA: One of my issues in this structure is wanting a curbless shower. If I did this as you have it pictured, I'd have damn near enough elevation for the slope to the drain, by the time I consider the durock and the tile. AND warmer floors. Hmmm...That looks costly and like a pain in the ass. But I really, really, REALLY don't want to hate my floors. |
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I've installed a few mat type systems and they worked great. We install the mat to the slab and then pour a self level over it to completely cover it and have a perfectly flat and level floor after for tile. The self level also adds a barrier to protect it from damage when installing the tile.
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I've installed a few mat type systems and they worked great. We install the mat to the slab and then pour a self level over it to completely cover it and have a perfectly flat and level floor after for tile. The self level also adds a barrier to protect it from damage when installing the tile. View Quote If so, how much did they cost to run? I'm far less concerned with initial cost to install (though that is a consideration) than with ongoing cost of use. |
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You mean mat type heating systems? If so, how much did they cost to run? I'm far less concerned with initial cost to install (though that is a consideration) than with ongoing cost of use. View Quote |
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You definitely want a thermal break for the slab.
This will help reduce how much cold the slab pulls from the earth 24/7. As far as heating , I've installed 50 or so floors over 10 years with Suntouch warm wire & tape mat with 0 failures. After installing the wire , which is just a big spool of wire you zig zag over the subfloor/concrete, then put a leveling cement over it, we much prefer the mat. Mat is more expensive than the wire, but the true installed cost is less. The only complaint I ever had was where the installer exceeded the wire spacing going through a doorway and if you happened to step on that 1 spot there was a temp difference. Failures are extremely rare, but there are procedures to find the break & repair. As far as operating costs, it depends on how long the heat is actually cycled on. The mats only pull 1 amp per 10sf when it's on. Not freezing cold will be cheaper than wow, this is really warm. I would suggest having the bathroom and bedroom on separate programmable thermostats. You could keep the bedroom just comfortable , but have the bathroom warm, for instance. I have a 120sf 240 volt mat in my mud room, and I will tell you it's heavenly to put your bare feet on a warm floor It also keeps all our shoes warm in the winter. As far as operating costs , it seems to cost $20 -$30 per month to run it during the winter where it feels warm. I do not have a thermal break under the slab and one end of the room is up,against an exterior wall. No one I have installed for, not myself, have regretted spending the money to heat the floor FYI. feel free to reach out via IM if you want to discuss. I'm a licensed commercial /residential contractor |
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So....how did you shoot the board down? How did you attach it? ETA: One of my issues in this structure is wanting a curbless shower. If I did this as you have it pictured, I'd have damn near enough elevation for the slope to the drain, by the time I consider the durock and the tile. AND warmer floors. Hmmm...That looks costly and like a pain in the ass. But I really, really, REALLY don't want to hate my floors. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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1" XPS foam, then 3/4" advantech, then padding/carpet or tile/etc. No need for heated flooring. No cold feet at all. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/60523/120313-996-128336.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/60523/iphone-286-128343.jpg ETA: One of my issues in this structure is wanting a curbless shower. If I did this as you have it pictured, I'd have damn near enough elevation for the slope to the drain, by the time I consider the durock and the tile. AND warmer floors. Hmmm...That looks costly and like a pain in the ass. But I really, really, REALLY don't want to hate my floors. The adhesive type is critical as most will dissolve the foam. Not a cheap approach, but a one time cost and also one of the best practice approaches for slab moisture management as espoused by www.buildingscience.com (a great resource to use at design time) The underslab insulation is another good suggestion if you cant accommodate the height loss by doing it on the finished side. ETA: example of under-slab insulated Above slab insulated: |
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You definitely want a thermal break for the slab. This will help reduce how much cold the slab pulls from the earth 24/7. As far as heating , I've installed 50 or so floors over 10 years with Suntouch warm wire & tape mat with 0 failures. After installing the wire , which is just a big spool of wire you zig zag over the subfloor/concrete, then put a leveling cement over it, we much prefer the mat. Mat is more expensive than the wire, but the true installed cost is less. The only complaint I ever had was where the installer exceeded the wire spacing going through a doorway and if you happened to step on that 1 spot there was a temp difference. Failures are extremely rare, but there are procedures to find the break & repair. As far as operating costs, it depends on how long the heat is actually cycled on. The mats only pull 1 amp per 10sf when it's on. Not freezing cold will be cheaper than wow, this is really warm. I would suggest having the bathroom and bedroom on separate programmable thermostats. You could keep the bedroom just comfortable , but have the bathroom warm, for instance. I have a 120sf 240 volt mat in my mud room, and I will tell you it's heavenly to put your bare feet on a warm floor It also keeps all our shoes warm in the winter. As far as operating costs , it seems to cost $20 -$30 per month to run it during the winter where it feels warm. I do not have a thermal break under the slab and one end of the room is up,against an exterior wall. No one I have installed for, not myself, have regretted spending the money to heat the floor FYI. feel free to reach out via IM if you want to discuss. I'm a licensed commercial /residential contractor View Quote We are laying block today, then I will be occupied with roughing in plumbing, so it might be a few days before I get back to this. |
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PL Premium adhesive to bond the foam to the slab, all seams taped, any gaps hit with foam spray. Advantech tongue and groove also glued down with PL Premium then powder actuated nailed through to slab. The adhesive type is critical as most will dissolve the foam. Not a cheap approach, but a one time cost and also one of the best practice approaches for slab moisture management as espoused by www.buildingscience.com (a great resource to use at design time) The underslab insulation is another good suggestion if you cant accommodate the height loss by doing it on the finished side. ETA: example of under-slab insulated http://buildingscience.com.678elmp02.blackmesh.com/sites/default/files/migrate/jpg/Figure_10_Rigid_insulation.jpg Above slab insulated: https://buildingscience.com/sites/default/files/styles/panopoly_image_original/public/ba-0309_figure_01.jpg?itok=1AqJspRY View Quote I will take a close look at this, and at the site you recommend. |
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if using the r10 pink foam under the slab....
be sure to get the stuff rated fro under concrete. local place sell 2" regular and 2" "under concrete" version think one is more suited to the 20k lbs that going to sit on it :) |
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If you're pouring concrete, you might want to consider a radiant floor heating system. You have to set the temperature and keep it there (so think energy consumption).
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So....how did you shoot the board down? How did you attach it? ETA: One of my issues in this structure is wanting a curbless shower. If I did this as you have it pictured, I'd have damn near enough elevation for the slope to the drain, by the time I consider the durock and the tile. AND warmer floors. Hmmm...That looks costly and like a pain in the ass. But I really, really, REALLY don't want to hate my floors. View Quote Schluter and others make nice looking trough drains but they are more costly. They're nice for ADA showers because they have more surface area and perforations to prevent overflow on a curbless. If it's a large two person shower with two mixing valves it's nearly a requirement. Have nothing to offer on the floor heat that you haven't thought about. Glad you have the project moving |
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You've probably thought of this but you can depress the slab at the shower with wood concrete forms. Insulate beneath it if you want. The downside is that you may have more excavating to do to get the drain system lower. I don't know if that will be a problem with the pump station elevation. Schluter and others make nice looking trough drains but they are more costly. They're nice for ADA showers because they have more surface area and perforations to prevent overflow on a curbless. If it's a large two person shower with two mixing valves it's nearly a requirement. Have nothing to offer on the floor heat that you haven't thought about. Glad you have the project moving View Quote Not doing a strict ADA shower because of the opening to the shower proper, and the shower is going to be only 4.5' X 5' or so. Not a "two shower head" installation. Still, I'm looking at having some body sprays that throw water around in all directions. Whether I actually go for that or not will depend on budget. Priority is getting the darn building dried in. Then we will see what I can actually do. But I'm trying to overbuild on the infrastructure so that I don't have to bust up concrete later to do something I wish I'd done in the first place. ETA: "more excavation" is apparently not an issue. I just called the contractor and said, "could one of your guys come over and bust up this hard-ass dirt so I can actually move it to rough in the drains?" He did. Made a mess of his nicely compacted dirt floor but...will save me a bunch of cussing. (The track hoe was already sitting there. All he had to do was send over a guy. He actually said I could use the hoe to do it, and I said, in my most sultry voice because it would make him laugh, "I don't know nuthin' 'bout that kind of hoe." He did laugh, btw.) I think he will do anything I need, short of putting up the whole building for me. (not that I would want that. Too much of a control freak.) My main issue with the drains is enough drop to the septic without having to install a lift pump. Right now we have plenty. If I go messing with it, that could change. I don't plan to mess with it too much. |
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if using the r10 pink foam under the slab.... be sure to get the stuff rated fro under concrete. local place sell 2" regular and 2" "under concrete" version think one is more suited to the 20k lbs that going to sit on it :) View Quote I will likely go with the 1" foam above the slab I'm guessing, once I figure that out. It will significantly reduce the "drop" I need in the concrete in the shower area to get enough slope toward the drain. I'm not sure how to bridge the "foam to no-foam" junction (my fallback is always thinset ) and I'm a little concerned about the shower itself being so unpleasantly cold (the floor) that nobody wants to shower. If I do the heat mat system, it might be in the shower itself if nowhere else. Jeez....I've got a serious learning curve here and not much time to engage the curve. Putting an electrical thingy in a pan that could potentially become wet...yeah, that tweaks all my twitchies. |
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If you're pouring concrete, you might want to consider a radiant floor heating system. You have to set the temperature and keep it there (so think energy consumption). View Quote Can I not adjust, if nobody will use the building for a few days? |
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You won't need heat mat in the shower since the warm water will heat up the floor., in fact I would recommend against it something about water and electricity mixing
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Why would I have to "keep it there?" Can I not adjust, if nobody will use the building for a few days? View Quote It takes a long time for it to change temperature. It takes a relatively low amount of energy to maintain a certain temperature. It takes a lot of energy to change that temperature. So, just like HVAC systems, it is better to leave it on and adjust the temperature by a few degrees when you are gone rather than turn it off completely. If you are gone for a while and you let the concrete get cold, it will take a lot of power to warm it back up up. Of course, insulating layers slow the heat transfer. Insulation can slow it a lot, but it can’t stop it on it’s own. |
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Thanks! Not doing a strict ADA shower because of the opening to the shower proper, and the shower is going to be only 4.5' X 5' or so. Not a "two shower head" installation. Still, I'm looking at having some body sprays that throw water around in all directions. Whether I actually go for that or not will depend on budget. Priority is getting the darn building dried in. Then we will see what I can actually do. But I'm trying to overbuild on the infrastructure so that I don't have to bust up concrete later to do something I wish I'd done in the first place. ETA: "more excavation" is apparently not an issue. I just called the contractor and said, "could one of your guys come over and bust up this hard-ass dirt so I can actually move it to rough in the drains?" He did. Made a mess of his nicely compacted dirt floor but...will save me a bunch of cussing. (The track hoe was already sitting there. All he had to do was send over a guy. He actually said I could use the hoe to do it, and I said, in my most sultry voice because it would make him laugh, "I don't know nuthin' 'bout that kind of hoe." He did laugh, btw.) I think he will do anything I need, short of putting up the whole building for me. (not that I would want that. Too much of a control freak.) My main issue with the drains is enough drop to the septic without having to install a lift pump. Right now we have plenty. If I go messing with it, that could change. I don't plan to mess with it too much. View Quote Check your IM or e-mail. I have a PDF for you. |
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Concrete is a large thermal mass. Think of it as a fly wheel for heat energy. Cold concrete will absorb heat from the air and cool the room. Warm concrete radiates heat into the air and makes the room warm. It takes a long time for it to change temperature. It takes a relatively low amount of energy to maintain a certain temperature. It takes a lot of energy to change that temperature. So, just like HVAC systems, it is better to leave it on and adjust the temperature by a few degrees when you are gone rather than turn it off completely. If you are gone for a while and you let the concrete get cold, it will take a lot of power to warm it back up up. Of course, insulating layers slow the heat transfer. Insulation can slow it a lot, but it can’t stop it on it’s own. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why would I have to "keep it there?" Can I not adjust, if nobody will use the building for a few days? It takes a long time for it to change temperature. It takes a relatively low amount of energy to maintain a certain temperature. It takes a lot of energy to change that temperature. So, just like HVAC systems, it is better to leave it on and adjust the temperature by a few degrees when you are gone rather than turn it off completely. If you are gone for a while and you let the concrete get cold, it will take a lot of power to warm it back up up. Of course, insulating layers slow the heat transfer. Insulation can slow it a lot, but it can’t stop it on it’s own. |
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Insulation for Under Concrete Slab - InfraStop® Concrete Pad |
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Why would I have to "keep it there?" Can I not adjust, if nobody will use the building for a few days? View Quote If I couldn't heat all the floor it would be the shower floor and in front of the toilet / vanities at a minimum Until you've experienced it you have no idea what you are missing. |
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Concrete is a large thermal mass. Think of it as a fly wheel for heat energy. Cold concrete will absorb heat from the air and cool the room. Warm concrete radiates heat into the air and makes the room warm. It takes a long time for it to change temperature. It takes a relatively low amount of energy to maintain a certain temperature. It takes a lot of energy to change that temperature. So, just like HVAC systems, it is better to leave it on and adjust the temperature by a few degrees when you are gone rather than turn it off completely. If you are gone for a while and you let the concrete get cold, it will take a lot of power to warm it back up up. Of course, insulating layers slow the heat transfer. Insulation can slow it a lot, but it can’t stop it on it’s own. View Quote Not sure I would keep that floor warm for two weeks for use on a weekend, but depending on frequency of use, it might make more sense to do exactly that. |
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Although it sounds dangerous , it's completely safe. If I couldn't heat all the floor it would be the shower floor and in front of the toilet / vanities at a minimum Until you've experienced it you have no idea what you are missing. View Quote And assuming there will be a circuit breaker involved, I probably wouldn't even worry too much about that, and I ALWAYS assume a shower pan will eventually get saturated. Always. Although I have full faith that I can build one which will not, I still assume...Always. Hmmm.. Interesting that I trust circuit breakers but not toilets. I might need therapy. |
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This is exactly what I would want to heat. And assuming there will be a circuit breaker involved, I probably wouldn't even worry too much about that, and I ALWAYS assume a shower pan will eventually get saturated. Always. Although I have full faith that I can build one which will not, I still assume...Always. Hmmm.. Interesting that I trust circuit breakers but not toilets. I might need therapy. View Quote |
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