Goodness!!  IT IS A BOOK & MOVIE!!!  If we refused to watch or read anything that didn't have sin in it, life would be really boring.

Is "The Wizard of Oz" Bad?
IS "Star Wars Bad?
It is entertainment!!!!! Fantasy.  Harry Potter is rated "PG" if you are a parent and don't think your kids can understand real vs fake don't let them see the movie.

wgunn,

My middle name is reality, so maybe your the one in need of a reality check.  By the same token, you stating that you know there is no God is strictly your "opinion" just as you said that I am only stating my "opinion".

You go off on Christians like we are supposed to be perfect.  Get real, we are plain old human beings just like you are.  At least we are trying to stand for something we believe in and share it with others.  You, on the other hand, don't stand for anything but you try to tear down Christianity anyway.  Whether you realize it or not, you are presenting yourself as a self-righteous individual.  You cannot tell me that you are "better" for tearing down Christianity than Christians are for trying to build it, but that is exactly how you come across.

Even though you don't want it, I will pray for you right now as I take my afternoon break.  I often wonder how humiliated I will feel on Judgement Day for the things I have done wrong.  But for you to spread your "Ain't no God" lies, well, I wouldn't want to be you when Judgement is passed.  That foolish act sure won't be on my list of wrongs!  

BBURN

Ahh.  So you [i]admit[/i] you don't know what your talking about?



Perhaps then many of our "Christian bretheren"
need a good jackslap upside the head.  Sort of a physical reality check, maybe jar some loose connections back together..



Garandman, get a life.  Seriously, you need something to do.  Get over yourself, and I mean that in a loving manner. Remeber your quote about the fanatical Christian Bretheren and WitchCraft?  Now substitute "Hollywood" for "Witchcraft" while looking at yourself in the mirror. How utterly ironic that it is not the topic of the movie or the book that is the sin here, but the hatred generated in those who disagree with it.  Now that's real.

God save us all.  If You think we're worth it.  Personally, I wouldn't blame You if You just chucked us all and tried again.

shooter

I'm NOT following your line of thought.

I'm serious. I don't see your point, so I'm hesitant to respond.

Silly me, you're right.  Only Christians have a moral compass... all other people are immoral pukes destine for Hell.  Sorry, I didn't mean to screw that up... I knew better.

No shit?  You're just figuring this out?  Laugh, you're a quick one!  Of course it's my opinion, that's the point of the exercise.

No shit again.  I don't think you are supposed to be perfect however pretentious and self righteous Christians abound...  Many of you here lecture us poor heathens about how morally corrupt we are and how enlightened your religion makes you.  Case in point: you're assertion that Christianity is a necessity to being moral.

Ahhh, poor little persecuted Christian... always the martyr.  Hey, I do in fact stand for something.  It's because you walk through life with blinders on that you don't see that.  I'm offering commentary that opposes your view of the world, nothing more.  For that I stand for nothing and my sole purpose is to destroy your religion.  Laugh, you give yourself WAY too much credit... But see, you think that without Christianity life doesn't exist.  I'm here to tell you it does, and many others here apparently agree.

It's you and your kind that tear everyone else down.  You tell us that we're going to Hell.  You tell us that we're immoral because we don't have God whispering in our ear what's right and wrong.  You tell us a movie is against God and is bad for children because it conflicts with your narrow view of the world.  Please, do you think you could be anymore of a hypocrite??

I realize I'm offering the same amount of self-righteousness to counter the immense self-righteousness of the Christian community here on AR15.com.  Of course you wouldn't see this because it would force you to recognize your own hypocrisy.

That's how it appears to you but that certainly isn't my belief.  You're just making a martyr out of yourself... which is fine.  You're religion is based on this necessity.

Thanks, I honestly appreciate it.  But unfortunately I've tried the praying thing for years and it yielded no better results than not praying.

It's not a lie young grasshopper, it's an [b]opinion[/b].  I thought you learned that lesson.

[:)]

  This is a false statement, or rather, a collection of false and misleading statements. First off, thousands of stories have done this already; Harry Potter is just a very popular one. Beyond that, the "midichlorians" you talk about were unmentioned in star wars fiction for twenty years, so using them to discount all prior lack of reaction is somewhat silly.

 Furthermore, it's quite clearly implied that, within the fantasy construct of Harry Potter, the powers he has are genetically derived, and they *do* simply come to him "by nature."

 Again, your total fucking ignorance of any aspect of what you're talking about pretty much renders anything you have to say on this subject worthless. Try actually reading a harry potter book once, it would help.

   Until then, your so-called "arguments" are little better than monkey dribblings, because they're based in less actual knowledge than a fucking monkey would have on this. I mean that literally. Koko the monkey, if you signed out the entire Harry Potter series to him syllable by syllable, would be able to form a better-founded argument about the books than anything you've said so far, because at least Koko would have some peripheral exposure to what koko would be talking about.

You don't. For your own good, shut up till you do. If you get any more ridiculous, we'll be able to lock you up in a cage and sell performance tickets, and that would just make all of us 'round here look bad. So wise up, 'k?

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. [b]I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.[/b]

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.  Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

[b]Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.[/b]

wgunn and AnotherPundit,

No need to get ugly because I respect your opinions and beliefs as much as I disagree with them.  If you can say the same then I thank you for at least respecting me in return.

I also thank God that he only asked me to speak and share of His gospel.  I am not required to convert you to Christianity because that is His job.  I have done that which was asked of me.  I can do no more.  If you choose to disagree with what the Bible (God's Holy word in my "OPINION") has to say then that is your right.  With that I am signing off of this topic.

May God Bless you and melt your hardened hearts.

BBURN

And I, Likewise, ask merely that you open your mind to the possibility --- not that your faith is in error -- but rather that, perhaps, those who have told you about the contents of the Harry Potter books have misinformed you.

If you really want to have an accurate conception of what the books contain, if you really want to convince anyone else that your opinions and beliefs about those books are valid, then you really are going to have to read them for yourself, if only to strengthen and refine your arguments.

It's very hard to convince people something is bad when they know more about it than you do. If you're serious about this, you owe it to yourself and them to be more informed than you currently are.

How can wgunn's "Ain't no God"  be lies, I thought it was just opinions.

Major-Murphy, you are right, it's an opinion he is entitled to have.  Sorry if I offended him or you too for that matter.

AnotherPundit, you are also right when you say I know little about Harry Potter.  That is because for once I am doing what the Bible says is right by avoiding witchcraft.  I don't want or need to know anymore.  Witchcraft is witchcraft and I will avoid it as a Christian should.

Guys, I am not some religious fanatic cornering people in shopping malls and telling them to get Jesus or they'll go to hell.  I have a little more courage behind the keyboard than in person as most of us do and I see these topics posted here and feel compelled to share my point of view.  I'm sure you just want to do the same.

One thing is for certain, I'm a really friendly person and get along great with everyone I know and that includes people from many different circles and/or beliefs.  I guarantee I could be a great friend to anyone of you.  I definitely don't want to offend anyone or try to force me beliefs on them.  I hope I haven't been too offensive.

Peace to all AR15.com brothers,

BBURN

"Jesus never once imposed his will on others, never once."

Nonsense.  You haven't read your bible.

Remember when he made a whip and drove the money changers out of the temple?

He also stopped at a tree, looking for figs.  Finding the tree was barren, he destroyed it at a touch. (withered)

"I have not come to make one jot or tittle of the (Old Testament) pass away."

Remember the God of Wrath, from the Old Testament?  "I am the same yesterday, today and tomorrow."

The God of Wrath is still here, folks.  The same one who directed the Israelites to wipe out the inhabitants of lands they were supposed to take over.

So you're one of those guys who actually thinks that god is some big dude with a beard that you actually get to meet, like a rock star, when you get to heaven?

The Midichlorians didn't come about until Episode 1. Did you hate Star Wars for the 20+ years before it because they practiced witchcraft?

Also, Screwtape Letters is good. But you should read Letters from the Earth by Mark Twain. Brilliant work from a Christian about the stupidity in the church.

Satan (i.e. Lucifer) comes from the Bible, whether he actually predates the book I won't go into but witchcraft came before the writing if the Bible. There are cities older than the world according to the bible. Satanist must believe in Gods existence, as Satan came from Heaven originally.

The New Testament was written after the life of Christ. That makes it younger than 2000 years. The most recent books were brobably written 1600-1800 years ago.

No not at all Sumo2000.  I see the characters in Star Wars as being another race of people, NOT HUMANS, who are in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GALAXY.  They are not subject to our "human" boundaries and are capable of greater things.  This is not witchcraft as we know it, where the characters are casting spells and etc.  Darth Vader takes a physical weapon and kills Ben Kenobi with it.  He didn't conjur up a spell and turn him into a frog.  What I am saying is that Star Wars is so far away from reality of life here as we know it that it is not a good comparison to HP.

However, I am saying that HP is not good because it is about an all too realistic human boy here on our planet who possesses witchcraft powers outside of our normal human capability.  It is a LOT closer to home than Star Wars ever could be.

The Bible specifically warns us to avoid witchcraft.  Harry Potter is all about witchcraft.  Star Wars is not.

BBURN

You think that God wants you to be ignorant? I have read plenty about witchcraft, and I'm still not a witch. The whole idea that you shouldn't learn about things because it might sway you sounds like a commandment for the weak.
If your faith is not strong enough to learn about other things in an intellectual sense then more power to you. I just see what is happening in the middle east where people have that same idea and they don't seem to be able to keep their heads above water.

Well, Star Wars Characters were pretty damned human from the way I saw them (I didn't see any horns) But I understand your arguement. I just hope that the "avoidance of witchcraft" doesn't keep people from learning about it ( not how to cast spells). At least, Know your enemy. Don't avoid knowledge. Knowledge is power.

"And god bellowed from the heavens-'Thou shalt not read any literature entailing the adventures of young english wizards,'- and there was much rejoicing."

Does anyone HONESTLY think that god is going to give a rat's ass if you read a fictional children's story? Do you think when you get to the pearly gates and he'll have a personal sh*t list of people who read a frickin book? Get real dude. This must mean that we can't read the lord of the rings, play final fantasy, or pretend that there is any other world but our own. I'm getting so sick of this christian fundamentalist BS.

whew...that feels better. thanks for letting me vent.

I note that most of the comparisons are being made to Star Wars and Tolkien.

Don't forget Cinderella, the Lion King, the Little Mermaid, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Aladdin, any of Grimm's Fairy Tales at all, anything that's come out of Disney in the past sixty years, almost every modern adaptation of the King Arthur stories including T.H. White's The Once and Future King, and a thousand thousand other children's books, far too many to list. If you discount Harry Potter, you basically have to count out, well, almost everything a child could possibly read or watch.


I give up, read, watch or don't, your choice. But please, try to know a little something about what you're talking about before you spout off, and if you do, then be consistent and ban, well, everything, pretty much.

Damn them moving pictures!

Again, there are differences.  All of these Disney fairy tales are so far out there that they are unbelieveable at the outset.  Rapunzel having hair that long?  Seven dwarfs named after their traits?  Talking lions or other animals?  All of these are fairy tales that are obvious fiction because of their complete utter impossibility.

Harry Potter is pretty darn realistic in the limited parts I've seen.  I believe that witchcraft is a real practice performed by real people and this HP story is therefore believeable.  Witchcraft portrayed with a realistic boy in a realistic setting cannot be compared to Disney cartoons that are not realistic in any fashion.  In a nutshell, it is MUCH easeir to separate fiction from reality with Disney cartoons than with HP.

BBURN

Yeah, I have been seeing a lot of flying brooms here lately.[rolleyes]

Oh, I see the problem here.

VTHOKIESHOOTER, you are so "Hokie" that you can't see the difference in realism between an ANIMATED CARTOON and a FILMED MOTION PICTURE.[rolleyes]

I lust for every woman I see (I am manly I guess).  I hope that god will forgive me using the hormones that she gave me in such abundance the way I do.

How can anyone get through puberty without being damned to hell?


What a silly religion.  YMMV (of course).

Well, a religion that told ya "Do whatever ya want" wouldn't be much a religion now would it??? [:D]

Well they sure could collect a few more tithes...Who knows, it is an ever evolving beast, lets see what happens in the future.

Well, not really. The whole idea behind tithes is that you are basically forced to give. [:D]

The "DoWhatchaWanna" religion would most likely be filled up with people who wanna spend their money on ANYTHING but tithes. [:D]

Like guns. Or beer.

Why not?
If you think that there is a purpose for religion, then it is logical to assume that religion is a construct of Man.

If God exists, God exists.
There is no PURPOSE for his existence.
He just is.
If there is a purpose, then it is a purpose created by Man.  Then we are using God.
What else is new?

I broke down and went to see the movie last night.  I did so because of this discussion.

So, there isn't a single truth in what you've said above.  The characters aren't any more realistic than those in Star Wars or any other fiction piece.  The setting certainly isn't realistic nor are the situations.  It is very cartoonish in nature.

Again, you really should check the movie out for yourself before you go on a crusade to convince people it's the work of the Devil.  They don't even refer to themselves as witches, but in stead "wizards".  They wear pointy hats and fly on brooms, but since they call themselves "wizards" it keeps it very fictional.

The story is a tale of morality, loyalty and bravery.  Nothing dark or sinister that I could see.

No shit.  He creates a bunch of little creatures for the sole purpose of having them worship him.  How conceded is that?!?  If you were a God, would you create a whole species and force them to constantly remind you of how great you are?  God... how human.

But then he hides from us; tells us we're going to hell (through the mouths of other men) if we don't believe in him and gives us a set of rules to live by.  If we violate any of these rules, we're going to Hell.

What about the little critters he created in extremely remote area's that aren't privileged enough to have the Jehovah's Witnesses pounding on their hut door to bring them the gospel?  Are they going to Hell because [b]man[/b] didn't bring them their religion?  God certainly isn't going to step in and help, he'll just let them go to Hell.

And as you've noted; he gives us this set of rules then creates us in such a manner that it's only natural to break them!  It certainly sounds like he's stacked the deck against us... and he claims to love us?  He makes it far easier to go to Hell than to get into Heaven... almost as if the majority of us are destine to Hell.  And this from a father who claims to love us?  PLEASE.

WGunn, I fear you are wasting your breath. I have read all of the books, and I know exactly what they ARE about, and what they ARENT about. I have tried to make the point that they ARENT about EVIL WITCHCRAFT.  Like you said:

"The story is a tale of morality, loyalty and bravery."

The problem here is that the people you are arguing against dont truly give a rats ass what the story is about.  Nor do they have any clue what its about.  Garandman and others supporting his opinion are simply trying to make some rediculous point, to gain support for their religious beliefs.  The fact that their point has no basis in reality is irrelevant to them.  BBURN's rationale that the characters in Star Wars are not humans, and the story line is so much further from our reality than Harry Potter is rediculous.

continued.....

The people in Star Wars look and act an awful lot like humans, wouldnt you say?  I would say he is in the minority in thinking they werent humans. Im sure 99% of the population believed the human looking characters really were human.  Darth Vader used the FORCE, BBURN, remember.  That is witchcraft as you have defined it.  Star Wars is CLOSER to our reality than Harry Potter.  Star Wars is based on a technilogically advanced society.  Harry Potter is based on Magic being a reality.  Technology is REAL, MAGIC IS NOT.  So tell me, which is really farther from OUR reality?  And finally, Harry Potter is not 'All About Witchcraft', as you put it.  But you wouldnt know, would you, you have never read/watched the story, have you.  I made this point once before and I will make it again.  I am not a christian. I have not read the Bible. Should I be making statments about what Christianity or the Bible stand for, or what they mean?  NO. Why? because I have no personal experience.  If i tried to tell you now what the meaning of the Bible was, would you put much stock in what i said? NO. Why? Because I have no personal experience. Dont make statements regarding a topic you have NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT. Which brings me back to my original point WGunn.  This discussion is pointless because we are discussing with people who are will to judge something and call it evil even though they have no first hand knowledge about it because their religion tells them it is evil.  As long as they refuse to actually educate themselves, its wasted breath.  I'll say one thing though.  Garandman has made it clear to me that he is willing to make broad generalizations reagrding a topic, criticising something he knows nothing about.  Essentially judging a book by its cover.  This is called stereotyping, or prejudice.  He is being prejudice because his religion is telling him to be.  If he is willing to be prejudice regarding this topic, be assured he is prejudice in other aspects of his life.  All i can say is, The topic of this entire thread is nothing but a show of intollerance.  Nothing more.

Not to someone like you who apparently requires strict discipline.

If I were an all knowing God that truly love his creation, I would create a planet and set of rules where you were more likely to GET into Heaven then to be sent to Hell.  If I truly loved my little worshipers, I would walk among them, not hide from them in some game.  I would make my presence known and show them love in a manner they are accustomed to... not give them a story book written by other men and hide from their view.

Why do you feel a God must smite his creations?  Why do you feel a God must hide from his flock?  Why do you feel a religion needs to be filled with threats of going to Hell?  Why can't a God just create a creature that instinctively follows the order?  Why must a religion be so heavily based on not only a trust in an invisible deity but have EXTREME faith in his fellow man?  For your religion to work, you trust that the men who wrote the Bible were meticulous... you also trust that your Pasture/churches interpretation of that Bible are accurate.  Remember, one boo-boo and the God who loves you so much will send you straight to Hell.

Hell, why even bother with a religion at all?  Couldn't God just give us life and let us have some fun?  If he didn't want us doing evil, then when he created the universe he would have left that out of the mix.  No shit, eh?  By putting it in the mix and by playing a game of hide and seek it appears he's stacking the deck against us and derives some sick amusement out of seeing his creations sentenced to Hell for non-compliance.

Sorry man, but I can envision a much better method of structuring a religion if I were a God... so what does that say about God?

Another interesting note:

What do all religions have in common?  From Egypt's Ra and Rome's countless Gods to Buddha and God, what common thread do they all share?

Wow... all God's are invisible.  They live in a lofty place in the sky and spread their word through men.

I find that interesting.  No one has a God that hangs out on Earth or makes their presence known.  Sure, some religions claim other men are really Gods, but they die of disease or grow old just like the rest of us... hardly Gods.  Why doesn't anyone have a God that hangs out here on Earth and is 2,000 or more years old?  Laugh, because the whole concept of a God is pure lunacy.

EVERYONE believes in God.

the ONLY question is


"Are you arrogant enuf to declare yourself 'God'?"

"Religion" is nothing more than the set of rules by which you run your life. EVERYONE is religious.

The only question is

"Whatcha gonna do when your rules conflict with another person who has ALSO declared themselves to be 'God'?"

THAT is when we'll see some REAL lunacy.

Not even close to being true.

I'm sure you would like for everyone to beleive this... but again, this isn't even close to being true.

Let's turn to our dictionary for clarification:

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
3. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
4. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

What?  Laugh... [%|] kookoo...

Ummmm, I don't know how to reply to this, but for one, a "Hokie" is Virginia Tech's mascot (I am a VT alum) In movies they have things called actors, they read a script that someone made up. Those people who are swayed by this movie because it "looks real" are weak minded and have a lot of time on their hands....and frankly I don't even know why I am wasting my time arguing over this......

To wgunn:

not flaming you, but the Bible does not teach that if you make one "booboo" then you will go straight to hell.

ALL christians are sinners, they are only forgiven for their sins through Jesus christ.
according the Bible all men (male and female) are born sinners. its something you cant really escape. there is no such thing as a christian who could make himself "perfect".

agnostic lib

It troubles me when people look for concrete answers in the Bible. When you read it you see not the words that it was written in. It was not english. There is no mention of the people and the history to support it.
When I study the T*r*h, I take it with respect to G*d and the people that have protected it for these centuries. In one discussion of the words a simple question was asked, why is it so vague. Yes it is vague, there is so much to read into it. The answer is so simple...'so that we talk about it' Each time we talk and think about those verses......we learn more of the world, ourselves and G*d. That is what it is to take us one step closer to G*d. For us to learn to become more than we are.
Each generation we step up more. We do not een consider worshipping a golden calf, there is no sexual worship of nature.
The world of G*d has grown. And so have his children.
Harry Potter is a story...it entertains, thatis all. No one will turn to satan because of a movie, they will only turn to satan if it is in their hearts.

Ahh, point taken... unless of course that one boo-boo (albeit a MAJOR one) comes just prior to your own death.  [:)]

Yaaaaawwwwnnnnnnnn......
Screw Harry Potter, Screw the Bible.  And screw all of Garandmans religious ramblings....
Man they get old...