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Posted: 1/9/2021 1:48:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish they would just give temporary licenses so folks could get some hands on experience before going all out and getting an actual license. Like when you go to check out a pop-up window appears and says to enter your DL# and contact information for your 90 day license, make sure to upgrade blahblahblah, then check out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can someone help me understand why people are so resistant to getting a license? I thoroughly enjoyed the process and learned a lot of very useful information. But both on arfcom and IRL, most people I talk to are high resistant to the idea. I am talking about people who are prepping for emergencies and want to have communications if the Internet and/or power grid goes down. Why the resistance? I wish they would just give temporary licenses so folks could get some hands on experience before going all out and getting an actual license. Like when you go to check out a pop-up window appears and says to enter your DL# and contact information for your 90 day license, make sure to upgrade blahblahblah, then check out. Please. Technician class is easy enough as it is. 5 year olds have passed it. |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 3:32:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I picked up a couple BaoFeng's on this sale and a programming cable, playing around in CHIRP to get them programmed. Antenna question - General consensus is the stock antennas on the BaoFeng are crap and Nagoya is a good brand to upgrade to. Any value in getting the Nagoya 771R retractable antenna? Or just go for the 771? Would prefer to not have a giant antenna extended all the time if it's not needed, but I live in a wooded area and may need the range. I bought that one and have not been impressed, granted, in only very limited testing in the 2m band. It's a small bump over the standard rubber duck, but hardly worth the expense or the hassle of being rigid. And I know these things are often counterfeited, but I am fairly sure mine is genuine given extensive review of the package and antenna itself. Perhaps it's better in other bands. I am definitely not an expert here. 
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Posted: 1/9/2021 3:48:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Check out Ham Radio Crash Course on YT.
Josh has some good videos on BaoFeng. |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 5:38:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Other Baofeng's (no home base station yet), GMRS, flat terrain but wooded, ideally up to 2 miles. I understand that my best bet is to get a home antenna and raised antennas for vehicles/SxS's - but I'm just getting started, so for now, trying to figure out how to best communicate between what I have. Longer antennas are better. I own two Baofeng UV-5R's, and hey both have this antenna on them: Antenna It improved the performance, but they are still junky Chinese radios. Rather than put lipstick on a pig, I'd spend my money on a Yaesu Ft-65, which is a lot more radio for not much more money. Yaesu Ft-65 $89.95 |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 5:44:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Longer antennas are better. I own two Baofeng UV-5R's, and hey both have this antenna on them: Antenna It improved the performance, but they are still junky Chinese radios. Rather than put lipstick on a pig, I'd spend my money on a Yaesu Ft-65, which is a lot more radio for not much more money. Yaesu Ft-65 $89.95 But as I say over and over... many people who buy baofengs are not buying them for amateur radio. They want to bootleg on GMRS, FRS, MURS, or whatever... and an amateur-specific radio doesn't work well out of the amateur band (regardless of whether they have been modified to enable out-of-band transmit). |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 6:02:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But as I say over and over... many people who buy baofengs are not buying them for amateur radio. They want to bootleg on GMRS, FRS, MURS, or whatever... and an amateur-specific radio doesn't work well out of the amateur band (regardless of whether they have been modified to enable out-of-band transmit). Of course I agree. Don't break the law. If you want to run GMRS, use a radio that is legal for GMRS. Same for MURS. Illegal radio operation is a stupid thing to get in trouble for. But if you want to operate on the amateur bands, decent equipment has never been cheaper. And it doesn't say Baofeng on the case. |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 6:38:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can someone help me understand why people are so resistant to getting a license? I thoroughly enjoyed the process and learned a lot of very useful information. But both on arfcom and IRL, most people I talk to are high resistant to the idea. I am talking about people who are prepping for emergencies and want to have communications if the Internet and/or power grid goes down. Why the resistance? theres a 99% i'll never even need to use the radio. in the 1% chance i do need it, theres a 99% chance i wont have anything to say. if i do it would be an emergency, so thats already legal. given the odds are so remote, i ask is there a couple hours i can spend to have it setup correctly and get lectured about how i'll kill people if i press the wrong button  . seems like a real fun bunch right off the bat.its like someone asking how to post on a forum and the response is well to really understand it we'll start with chemistry. you can't know really know the physics behind how electricity works in a cpu uses electricity without that. year 2 we'll start assembly year 3 we get to the kernel. the response thats relevant in reality is was open an internet browser, go to a website, type your reply and hit enter. |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 6:50:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ahhhhhhh YES. This guy gets it. Those cheapo Chinese Baofang radios are toys. They may last a year or so and if you really need an actual radio over any period of time you will end up replacing them. If you want comms for you and your group for SHTF just get a package deal on some decent handhelds that aren't ham radios You and your neighbors or group of friends within a half a mile are who you should be concerned with. You aren't going to tap into the Ham N Eggers repeaters unless you want to become a Ham guy as well. A good package deal of Motorola or other popular commercial radios are a good investment and will last for years and hold up to the weather. You can use them for hunting or when you are on road trips. They sell package deals on these better quality radios all over the net. Most of the ones big M makes have vehicle charges as well. Nothing wrong with being into ham radio. It's the guys who have this really weird need to push their ham-N-egger BS onto everyone when people mention the word radio. BTW, I was driving through Tennessee last night and they have a statewide ham net going on Monday evenings and they don't come off as Ham N eggers. @defendtexas I got 6 of my friends to get a license just because those baofangs are cheap. I have also made a solar powered aprs repeater that's been on an 8700' ridge for the last 15 months with 3 of these radios that apparently don't last. These toys you speak of literally have saved my bacon, and others, rather than "ham and eggers" which I have no clue what that's being derogatory to. Let me know when you've connected to a manned orbital station with your superior handhelds, rather than just spending money talking shit on others and trying to make up terms like "ham-and-eggers." |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 6:52:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: theres a 99% i'll never even need to use the radio. in the 1% chance i do need it, theres a 99% chance i wont have anything to say. if i do it would be an emergency, so thats already legal. given the odds are so remote, i ask is there a couple hours i can spend to have it setup correctly and get lectured about how i'll kill people if i press the wrong button . seems like a real fun bunch right off the bat.its like someone asking how to post on a forum and the response is well to really understand it we'll start with chemistry. you can't know really know the physics behind how electricity works in a cpu uses electricity without that. year 2 we'll start assembly year 3 we get to the kernel. the response thats relevant in reality is was open an internet browser, go to a website, type your reply and hit enter. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can someone help me understand why people are so resistant to getting a license? I thoroughly enjoyed the process and learned a lot of very useful information. But both on arfcom and IRL, most people I talk to are high resistant to the idea. I am talking about people who are prepping for emergencies and want to have communications if the Internet and/or power grid goes down. Why the resistance? theres a 99% i'll never even need to use the radio. in the 1% chance i do need it, theres a 99% chance i wont have anything to say. if i do it would be an emergency, so thats already legal. given the odds are so remote, i ask is there a couple hours i can spend to have it setup correctly and get lectured about how i'll kill people if i press the wrong button . seems like a real fun bunch right off the bat.its like someone asking how to post on a forum and the response is well to really understand it we'll start with chemistry. you can't know really know the physics behind how electricity works in a cpu uses electricity without that. year 2 we'll start assembly year 3 we get to the kernel. the response thats relevant in reality is was open an internet browser, go to a website, type your reply and hit enter. It just doesn't work like that. If you substitute gun for radio in your post, you might see the point. Except if you do something stupid with a gun, it will probably only affect you and the people immediately around you. When you use a radio in a government or commercial setting, someone else has already done the hard work for you. If you are wanting to use radios independently, the technical stuff has to be worked out. If you don't want to be bothered, stick with blister pack FRS or packaged MURS radios. Those are pretty much plug and play and powered-limited to reduce harmful interference. Ham HT's, like the Baofeng, are not. |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 7:09:14 PM EDT
[#10]
I had already bought a few radios prior to getting my tech license. When I took the test, some of the examiners were selling new Baofeng radios preprogrammed and with a Nagoya whip antenna for $35.00
Not a bad price. Check with you local ham club and see if they offer something similar. |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 8:00:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Ham class is being taught near me next weekend.
I'm studying the hamstudy questions now. I can probably get half or more of them the first time I read them. I still know next-to-nothing about radio. If someone wanted to explain what a radio wave was, how we measure frequency, how antennas work, etc.....it would be appreciated. Also....we have a big Wilson directional antenna and the cables to connect it to our cell phone wifi hotspot. We stopped using it because the little toy antennas that came with it work well enough. Is this thing of any use to receive shortwave or ham transmissions? |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 9:05:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ham class is being taught near me next weekend. I'm studying the hamstudy questions now. I can probably get half or more of them the first time I read them. I still know next-to-nothing about radio. If someone wanted to explain what a radio wave was, how we measure frequency, how antennas work, etc.....it would be appreciated. Also....we have a big Wilson directional antenna and the cables to connect it to our cell phone wifi hotspot. We stopped using it because the little toy antennas that came with it work well enough. Is this thing of any use to receive shortwave or ham transmissions? Radio waves (carrier and modulation concepts)  #170: Basics of IQ Signals and IQ modulation & demodulation - A tutorial Visualizing a repetative signal and measuring it's frequency  #43: Analog Oscilloscope Basics: Making a Frequency Measurement Visualizing antenna, coax and impedance relationships and SWR  #208: Visualizing RF Standing Waves on Transmission Lines |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 9:20:50 PM EDT
[#13]
A radio wave is, as the name implies, an electromagnetic wave that travels through space at the speed of light. The number of times that it goes from the top of a cycle to the top in the next is what is measured in hertz. These hertz are then, using terms familiar from metric measurements, simplified into kilohertz (1000 cycles per second) and megahertz (1,000,000) cycles per second. An FM band radio station may use a transmission frequency of 99.9MHz which is 99,900,000 times a second the wave is going up and down.
Another important aspect of the wave is the distance between the top of one wave to the next. This is known as the wavelength. Since the speed of light is constant we simply have to divide the speed by the frequency and we know the wavelength. The "close enough" number is 300 divided by the frequency in megahertz gives the wavelength in meters. Wavelength is used in antenna calculations. There are two that I remember you need for the technician test. They are essentially "Given a frequency in megahertz what is the length of a quarter wave antenna?" and the same for a half wave. Therefore all we have to do is find the wavelength 300/the given frequency and if it's asking for feet multiply by 3.2 (or it's just a bit over three feet per meter, the math isn't that demanding on the technician test). As for how antennas work, it's rather complicated, but suffice it to say that an antenna resonates at certain frequencies. Those frequencies are the ones that the antenna performs best at. Outside of where the antenna is "tuned" for it's going to be less effective to eventually harmful to your radio. The cell repeater is likely not tuned for anything near the amateur bands, but I've got a $40 dollar box that can analyze just what the antenna is good at.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 9:31:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another important aspect of the wave is the distance between the top of one wave to the next. This is known as the wavelength. Since the speed of light is constant we simply have to divide the speed by the frequency and we know the wavelength. The "close enough" number is 300 divided by the frequency in megahertz gives the wavelength in meters. Wavelength is used in antenna calculations. There are two that I remember you need for the technician test. They are essentially "Given a frequency in megahertz what is the length of a quarter wave antenna?" and the same for a half wave. Therefore all we have to do is find the wavelength 300/the given frequency and if it's asking for feet multiply by 3.2 (or it's just a bit over three feet per meter, the math isn't that demanding on the technician test). This is more helpful than you realize. I just sort of feel like I need to know what a radio wave is first - seems kinda foundational. Also, I've already seen the antenna length test questions, and, of course, didn't have a clue how to answer them. But I'm far more interested in understanding enough stuff to begin building a framework of useful knowledge here, than I am in just passing the test. So....an antenna can be set up at a certain actual length at which it resonates at a frequency that matches a frequency a transmission might be broadcast on, so as to maximize signal reception. Makes sense. Sort of.  |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 9:35:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is more helpful than you realize. I just sort of feel like I need to know what a radio wave is first - seems kinda foundational. Also, I've already seen the antenna length test questions, and, of course, didn't have a clue how to answer them. But I'm far more interested in understanding enough stuff to begin building a framework of useful knowledge here, than I am in just passing the test. So....an antenna can be set up at a certain actual length at which it resonates at a frequency that matches a frequency a transmission might be broadcast on, so as to maximize signal reception. Makes sense. Sort of. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Another important aspect of the wave is the distance between the top of one wave to the next. This is known as the wavelength. Since the speed of light is constant we simply have to divide the speed by the frequency and we know the wavelength. The "close enough" number is 300 divided by the frequency in megahertz gives the wavelength in meters. Wavelength is used in antenna calculations. There are two that I remember you need for the technician test. They are essentially "Given a frequency in megahertz what is the length of a quarter wave antenna?" and the same for a half wave. Therefore all we have to do is find the wavelength 300/the given frequency and if it's asking for feet multiply by 3.2 (or it's just a bit over three feet per meter, the math isn't that demanding on the technician test). This is more helpful than you realize. I just sort of feel like I need to know what a radio wave is first - seems kinda foundational. Also, I've already seen the antenna length test questions, and, of course, didn't have a clue how to answer them. But I'm far more interested in understanding enough stuff to begin building a framework of useful knowledge here, than I am in just passing the test. So....an antenna can be set up at a certain actual length at which it resonates at a frequency that matches a frequency a transmission might be broadcast on, so as to maximize signal reception. Makes sense. Sort of. I'm the same way. When I was studying for my General and Extra I spent a lot of time trying to learn most of the things even if it was only a couple of questions on the test because I wanted to know how it worked. And you're spot on. For those of us that are old enough to remember such a thing , when we adjusted the antennas on the TV to get a better signal when we extended and collapsed the antennas we were adjusting the length and with it the resonant frequency whether we knew it or not. |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 9:57:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is more helpful than you realize. I just sort of feel like I need to know what a radio wave is first - seems kinda foundational. Also, I've already seen the antenna length test questions, and, of course, didn't have a clue how to answer them. But I'm far more interested in understanding enough stuff to begin building a framework of useful knowledge here, than I am in just passing the test. So....an antenna can be set up at a certain actual length at which it resonates at a frequency that matches a frequency a transmission might be broadcast on, so as to maximize signal reception. Makes sense. Sort of. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Another important aspect of the wave is the distance between the top of one wave to the next. This is known as the wavelength. Since the speed of light is constant we simply have to divide the speed by the frequency and we know the wavelength. The "close enough" number is 300 divided by the frequency in megahertz gives the wavelength in meters. Wavelength is used in antenna calculations. There are two that I remember you need for the technician test. They are essentially "Given a frequency in megahertz what is the length of a quarter wave antenna?" and the same for a half wave. Therefore all we have to do is find the wavelength 300/the given frequency and if it's asking for feet multiply by 3.2 (or it's just a bit over three feet per meter, the math isn't that demanding on the technician test). This is more helpful than you realize. I just sort of feel like I need to know what a radio wave is first - seems kinda foundational. Also, I've already seen the antenna length test questions, and, of course, didn't have a clue how to answer them. But I'm far more interested in understanding enough stuff to begin building a framework of useful knowledge here, than I am in just passing the test. So....an antenna can be set up at a certain actual length at which it resonates at a frequency that matches a frequency a transmission might be broadcast on, so as to maximize signal reception. Makes sense. Sort of. Yes, If an antenna is resonant at a given frequency, then virtually all of the power input into it is dissipated by the antena. That is, if your coax is matched to your output impedance (usually 50 ohms) then your resonant antenna (or load) is at maximum efficiency. The resonance of an antenna is determined by it's length in relationship to the period of a waveform, or a fraction thereof. ETA, look at the last of the three videos I posted above to see how your coax (transmission line) and load (antenna) can effect your SWR..... |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 10:08:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm the same way. When I was studying for my General and Extra I spent a lot of time trying to learn most of the things even if it was only a couple of questions on the test because I wanted to know how it worked. And you're spot on. For those of us that are old enough to remember such a thing , when we adjusted the antennas on the TV to get a better signal when we extended and collapsed the antennas we were adjusting the length and with it the resonant frequency whether we knew it or not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Another important aspect of the wave is the distance between the top of one wave to the next. This is known as the wavelength. Since the speed of light is constant we simply have to divide the speed by the frequency and we know the wavelength. The "close enough" number is 300 divided by the frequency in megahertz gives the wavelength in meters. Wavelength is used in antenna calculations. There are two that I remember you need for the technician test. They are essentially "Given a frequency in megahertz what is the length of a quarter wave antenna?" and the same for a half wave. Therefore all we have to do is find the wavelength 300/the given frequency and if it's asking for feet multiply by 3.2 (or it's just a bit over three feet per meter, the math isn't that demanding on the technician test). This is more helpful than you realize. I just sort of feel like I need to know what a radio wave is first - seems kinda foundational. Also, I've already seen the antenna length test questions, and, of course, didn't have a clue how to answer them. But I'm far more interested in understanding enough stuff to begin building a framework of useful knowledge here, than I am in just passing the test. So....an antenna can be set up at a certain actual length at which it resonates at a frequency that matches a frequency a transmission might be broadcast on, so as to maximize signal reception. Makes sense. Sort of. I'm the same way. When I was studying for my General and Extra I spent a lot of time trying to learn most of the things even if it was only a couple of questions on the test because I wanted to know how it worked. And you're spot on. For those of us that are old enough to remember such a thing , when we adjusted the antennas on the TV to get a better signal when we extended and collapsed the antennas we were adjusting the length and with it the resonant frequency whether we knew it or not. Yeah and when dad said, hold it! Stand right there!...... we were capacitively coupling our bodies to the rabbit ears, thus electrically helping match the impedance!
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Posted: 1/10/2021 10:37:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ETA, look at the last of the three videos I posted above to see how your coax (transmission line) and load (antenna) can effect your SWR..... I'm going to watch those as soon as the kids go to bed. On another note: Any point in registering for a GMRS license? (Be gentle - because I just did. $70 for a ten-year license and now I can (once the license is approved, I suppose) use the baofengs as walkie talkies. |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 10:44:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to watch those as soon as the kids go to bed. On another note: Any point in registering for a GMRS license? (Be gentle - because I just did. $70 for a ten-year license and now I can (once the license is approved, I suppose) use the baofengs as walkie talkies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ETA, look at the last of the three videos I posted above to see how your coax (transmission line) and load (antenna) can effect your SWR..... I'm going to watch those as soon as the kids go to bed. On another note: Any point in registering for a GMRS license? (Be gentle - because I just did. $70 for a ten-year license and now I can (once the license is approved, I suppose) use the baofengs as walkie talkies. Here is another video. This one is pretty old. Tektronix produced it. At any rate, it is as valid today as it ever was and helps to visualize transmission line impedance characteristics. Your transmission line (or coax) is every bit as important as your antenna......  Tektronix - Transmission Lines |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 10:50:06 PM EDT
[#20]
I can program a frequency in my Baofeng UV-5R but I have yet to hear a human voice on this darn thing. I'm using the local radio frequency guide. I upgraded the antenna to a Nagoya NA771. Mine won't even accept the NOAA weather frequency, it disables the last couple of digits.
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Posted: 1/10/2021 11:06:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow. Someone should start a thread addressing those problems. That would be awesome! LOL! |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 11:28:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just sort of feel like I need to know what a radio wave is first - seems kinda foundational. Quote HistoryQuoted: I just sort of feel like I need to know what a radio wave is first - seems kinda foundational. Maybe, but it's also a question that theoretical physicists struggle to explain. What is light? Light and radio are both electromagnetic radiation, just at different frequencies. It's easier to not worry about that and just worry about what they do and how to make use of them. So....an antenna can be set up at a certain actual length at which it resonates at a frequency that matches a frequency a transmission might be broadcast on, so as to maximize signal reception. Makes sense. Sort of. Yes, with simple antenna designs the size is directly related to the frequency it's designed for. As an example, a quarter wave vertical monopole antenna for 100MHz is about 30 inches tall. Those figures might ring a bell, as 100MHz is the middle of the FM broadcast band, and many automobiles have that 30 inch tall antenna on the fender to receive FM broadcast signals. If you look at a police car you might see an antenna about 18 inches tall. That would be the height for roughly 150MHz. 18/30 = 100/150... as frequency goes up, size goes down. That same antenna for the CB band is the 108 inch whip that you might occasionally see on a vehicle. For the 40 meter amateur band, a 1/4 wave vertical is about 32 1/2 feet tall. |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 11:34:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's easier to not worry about that and just worry about what they do and how to make use of them. Quote HistoryQuoted: It's easier to not worry about that and just worry about what they do and how to make use of them. I did electric utility contracting for many years and I could build models of distribution systems with amazing precision despite having literally millions of pieces of data interconnected but I couldn't explain how a capacitor worked. Later, I learned to wire my house. More or less. Point being, it bugged me that I was doing super cool tech stuff but never had a foundational grasp of electricity. For the 40 meter amateur band, a 1/4 wave vertical is about 32 1/2 feet tall. For some reason, you saying that makes me think I'll end up having to climb a tree with a roll of wire before this is all over.
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Posted: 1/10/2021 11:38:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Tried the cheapo baofeng from inside the house. Listening to simplex net.
Seemed to work pretty well inside the bathroom here. Better outside on deck, but warmer in the house.  simplex net baofeng master ham |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 11:42:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can program a frequency in my Baofeng UV-5R but I have yet to hear a human voice on this darn thing. I'm using the local radio frequency guide. I upgraded the antenna to a Nagoya NA771. Mine won't even accept the NOAA weather frequency, it disables the last couple of digits. Also I don't see a tone freq listed. That can cause reception issues of it's not set right. With FRS you can turn it off, honestly I've never tried to do that with my HTs, but you should be able to if you just want to listen in. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 7:12:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to watch those as soon as the kids go to bed. On another note: Any point in registering for a GMRS license? (Be gentle - because I just did. $70 for a ten-year license and now I can (once the license is approved, I suppose) use the baofengs as walkie talkies. The only way to really tell is with a very expensive spectrum analyzer. There may be a guy in your local club that spent that sort of money because reasons (like building his own transceivers from scratch or he likes to work on boat anchor projects and restore them). |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 7:20:24 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I noted several of those frequencies are listed as digital, you won't hear voices, at best done noise. Also I don't see a tone freq listed. That can cause reception issues of it's not set right. With FRS you can turn it off, honestly I've never tried to do that with my HTs, but you should be able to if you just want to listen in. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 8:01:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is more helpful than you realize. I just sort of feel like I need to know what a radio wave is first - seems kinda foundational. Also, I've already seen the antenna length test questions, and, of course, didn't have a clue how to answer them. But I'm far more interested in understanding enough stuff to begin building a framework of useful knowledge here, than I am in just passing the test. So....an antenna can be set up at a certain actual length at which it resonates at a frequency that matches a frequency a transmission might be broadcast on, so as to maximize signal reception. Makes sense. Sort of. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Another important aspect of the wave is the distance between the top of one wave to the next. This is known as the wavelength. Since the speed of light is constant we simply have to divide the speed by the frequency and we know the wavelength. The "close enough" number is 300 divided by the frequency in megahertz gives the wavelength in meters. Wavelength is used in antenna calculations. There are two that I remember you need for the technician test. They are essentially "Given a frequency in megahertz what is the length of a quarter wave antenna?" and the same for a half wave. Therefore all we have to do is find the wavelength 300/the given frequency and if it's asking for feet multiply by 3.2 (or it's just a bit over three feet per meter, the math isn't that demanding on the technician test). This is more helpful than you realize. I just sort of feel like I need to know what a radio wave is first - seems kinda foundational. Also, I've already seen the antenna length test questions, and, of course, didn't have a clue how to answer them. But I'm far more interested in understanding enough stuff to begin building a framework of useful knowledge here, than I am in just passing the test. So....an antenna can be set up at a certain actual length at which it resonates at a frequency that matches a frequency a transmission might be broadcast on, so as to maximize signal reception. Makes sense. Sort of. @arowneragain The questions and answers on the practice tests ARE the actual questions and answers on the real tests. The practice test questions aren't like the real questions, they ARE the real questions and there just isn't that many of them in the question pool for the Tech test. A few hours of practice tests and anyone should have memorized enough answers to pass. Once you pass the test then the real learning can start as you research how to do what you want to do. Antennas for instance, (which was my first interest) can be some major study, depending how deep you want to go. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 8:09:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did electric utility contracting for many years and I could build models of distribution systems with amazing precision despite having literally millions of pieces of data interconnected but I couldn't explain how a capacitor worked. Later, I learned to wire my house. More or less. Point being, it bugged me that I was doing super cool tech stuff but never had a foundational grasp of electricity. For some reason, you saying that makes me think I'll end up having to climb a tree with a roll of wire before this is all over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's easier to not worry about that and just worry about what they do and how to make use of them. I did electric utility contracting for many years and I could build models of distribution systems with amazing precision despite having literally millions of pieces of data interconnected but I couldn't explain how a capacitor worked. Later, I learned to wire my house. More or less. Point being, it bugged me that I was doing super cool tech stuff but never had a foundational grasp of electricity. For the 40 meter amateur band, a 1/4 wave vertical is about 32 1/2 feet tall. For some reason, you saying that makes me think I'll end up having to climb a tree with a roll of wire before this is all over. Trees are definitely your friend when it comes to running wires for HF radios. I used a slingshot to put mine in the tree however.
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Posted: 1/11/2021 8:14:28 AM EDT
[#30]
I've been slowly looking at the stuff I got from dad's after he died but never found an antenna. Surely he had one though, said he listens and had his license.
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Posted: 1/11/2021 1:35:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trees are definitely your friend when it comes to running wires for HF radios. I used a slingshot to put mine in the tree however. Practice rifle grenades and a blank. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 1:38:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Practice rifle grenades and a blank. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Trees are definitely your friend when it comes to running wires for HF radios. I used a slingshot to put mine in the tree however. Practice rifle grenades and a blank. It all of us live in Montana so we have to deal with neighbors.
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Posted: 1/11/2021 1:42:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Practice rifle grenades and a blank. Send @extrabonez up the trees with the antannerz. He climbs faster than a bear looking for honey. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 1:44:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: theres a 99% i'll never even need to use the radio. in the 1% chance i do need it, theres a 99% chance i wont have anything to say. if i do it would be an emergency, so thats already legal. given the odds are so remote, i ask is there a couple hours i can spend to have it setup correctly and get lectured about how i'll kill people if i press the wrong button . seems like a real fun bunch right off the bat.its like someone asking how to post on a forum and the response is well to really understand it we'll start with chemistry. you can't know really know the physics behind how electricity works in a cpu uses electricity without that. year 2 we'll start assembly year 3 we get to the kernel. the response thats relevant in reality is was open an internet browser, go to a website, type your reply and hit enter. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can someone help me understand why people are so resistant to getting a license? I thoroughly enjoyed the process and learned a lot of very useful information. But both on arfcom and IRL, most people I talk to are high resistant to the idea. I am talking about people who are prepping for emergencies and want to have communications if the Internet and/or power grid goes down. Why the resistance? theres a 99% i'll never even need to use the radio. in the 1% chance i do need it, theres a 99% chance i wont have anything to say. if i do it would be an emergency, so thats already legal. given the odds are so remote, i ask is there a couple hours i can spend to have it setup correctly and get lectured about how i'll kill people if i press the wrong button . seems like a real fun bunch right off the bat.its like someone asking how to post on a forum and the response is well to really understand it we'll start with chemistry. you can't know really know the physics behind how electricity works in a cpu uses electricity without that. year 2 we'll start assembly year 3 we get to the kernel. the response thats relevant in reality is was open an internet browser, go to a website, type your reply and hit enter. The problem is that guys like you don't know what you don't know. If you want to open a box, pull out your new radio and push to talk, get an FRS/GMRS/MURS whatever and go at it. Don't worry about ham radio or a radio you need to program. You won't "have communications" with something you don't know how to use. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 1:44:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It all of us live in Montana so we have to deal with neighbors. Ohh, I have neighbors, they're just used to my...….. Peculiarities. Or better phrased from them; "Now what the fuck is he doing"? |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 1:46:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Practice rifle grenades and a blank. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Trees are definitely your friend when it comes to running wires for HF radios. I used a slingshot to put mine in the tree however. Practice rifle grenades and a blank. Drones are the new way 
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Posted: 1/11/2021 3:15:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Drones are the new way |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 5:20:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forget the trees and just hang the antenna from the drone Cable gets heavy.. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 5:13:43 PM EDT
[#39]
So help me out here....
When we speak of high frequency we are speaking of shorter waves, hence, shortwave, right? FM frequencies are actually lower (in hz) that AM? Allowing more clear info to be sent, but at shorter range, right? All of the frequencies I'd deal with while learning HAM basics will be on the right-hand column of this chart, right?  Also, would it be too much to ask once more how I take a frequency (say, 460MHz) and convert that to a 'meter' range, and therefore antenna length? |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 5:38:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Describing bands in Meters is just nomenclature which harken back to old traditions. It's easier to say 40 or 40 meter band than to say 7.0 to 7.3 MegaHertz.
High Frequency (HF) dates back over a century to when there was low frequency (LF) aka longwave, medium frequency (MF) aka medium wave, and high frequency (HF) aka shortwave. In the very early days of radio it was believed/theorized that transmission distance and usefulness of radio was directly proportional to frequency, low frequencies/long wavelengths traveling further. Which turned out to be incorrect. The discovery of ionospheric propagation by amateur radio folks exploring the "useless" high frequency part of the spectrum opened up a whole new world of communications. Technology at that time was such that a frequency like the CB band or amateur 10 meter band would have been almost at the limit of capability and was experimental in nature, particularly since commercial research was oriented toward lower frequencies. Advances in technology opened up much higher radio frequencies to use, leading to a rough cutoff at the top end of the range where ionospheric propagation happens, with frequencies above that called very high frequency (VHF) and ultra high frequency (UHF). Quoted: All of the frequencies I'd deal with while learning If by basics you mean what you deal with as a Technician class licensee, then yes mostly. Technicians have full privileges on 6 meters (50MHz) and higher bands, with limited privileges on 10 meters and CW only on 3 other bands. Also, would it be too much to ask once more how I take a frequency (say, 460MHz) and convert that to a 'meter' range, and therefore antenna length? "Meter ranges" as I said before is just nomenclature, don't get wound up in it being a scientific measurement. If you want to calculate lengths, you need an actual numeric formula. Plenty of online calculators if you type "wavelength calculator" into a search engine, such as this one: http://wxtofly.net/wavecalc.htm Or if you want a couple numbers to remember, 2950/(MHz)=1/4 wavelength in inches. But practical antennas have end effect and other factors, so a rough figure for a 1/4 wavelength antenna element is to use 2808/(MHz). 234/(MHz)=(antenna length in feet) is common for HF. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 5:40:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Tag
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Posted: 1/12/2021 5:42:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Send @extrabonez up the trees with the antannerz. He climbs faster than a bear looking for honey. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Practice rifle grenades and a blank. Send @extrabonez up the trees with the antannerz. He climbs faster than a bear looking for honey. 
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Posted: 1/12/2021 5:52:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is that there seems to be at least one or two Baofeng threads every week that ask the same questions, over and over, going back years. People who have the technical knowledge you seek have already answered your questions dozens of times, and it gets tedious. How much fun would this board be if there was multiple threads every week by newbies who said "hey I just bought a GUN, someone teach me about GUN." Here are the Baofeng threads just from the past week that were in my subscribed topics: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/698916_Baofeng-radios.html https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_22/698876_Bought-a-pair-of-Baofeng-UV-5R-s.html https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/2407259_Looking-for-a-set-of-Walkie-Talkies-for-Family-Comms-.html https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_22/698875_Need-some-Baofeng-radio-help.html https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/2406838_radio-walkie-talkie-team-communication-question.html https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-DEAL-ALERT-Baofeng-UV5R-s-on-Sale-at-Amazon/5-2409136/?page=1 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We need a tutorial. Yep, I bet there's one hiding in a tech forum. People will come into this thread and mention it angrily. The problem is that there seems to be at least one or two Baofeng threads every week that ask the same questions, over and over, going back years. People who have the technical knowledge you seek have already answered your questions dozens of times, and it gets tedious. How much fun would this board be if there was multiple threads every week by newbies who said "hey I just bought a GUN, someone teach me about GUN." Here are the Baofeng threads just from the past week that were in my subscribed topics: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/698916_Baofeng-radios.html https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_22/698876_Bought-a-pair-of-Baofeng-UV-5R-s.html https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/2407259_Looking-for-a-set-of-Walkie-Talkies-for-Family-Comms-.html https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_22/698875_Need-some-Baofeng-radio-help.html https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/2406838_radio-walkie-talkie-team-communication-question.html https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-DEAL-ALERT-Baofeng-UV5R-s-on-Sale-at-Amazon/5-2409136/?page=1 So far, in this thread and every other I’ve read, none of those questions have been answered. Just “get a license” , “get so so watts over so so” “what are you trying to do” “there are many other threads like this” None answer any questions except very technical ones like, how do I get hams license. Where can I get so and so radio. I would like to know how I can communicate to a friend 15 miles away with handheld/ antenna/ battery through many trees and flat ground. For hopefully under $150. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 5:56:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's like learnia foreign language. I'll be doing a lot of reading before even taking it out. Figuring it out after, I can do. I don’t have the funds to waste on trial and error. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 5:59:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would like to know how I can communicate to a friend 15 miles away with handheld/ antenna/ battery through many trees and flat ground. For hopefully under $150. You don't. Unless you use a repeater, or put up a couple antenna towers and antennas, or you're standing on a moutaintop or big hill to have a direct (or nearly so) line of sight over that 15 mile path. That's because of physics not any regulatory issue. If you want access to repeaters, you need a GMRS license, an amateur license, or a licensed Land Mobile system (either yours or rental). |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 6:00:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So help me out here.... When we speak of high frequency we are speaking of shorter waves, hence, shortwave, right? FM frequencies are actually lower (in hz) that AM? Allowing more clear info to be sent, but at shorter range, right? All of the frequencies I'd deal with while learning HAM basics will be on the right-hand column of this chart, right? http://www.arrl.org/images/view//Charts/Band_Chart_Image_for_ARRL_Web.jpg Also, would it be too much to ask once more how I take a frequency (say, 460MHz) and convert that to a 'meter' range, and therefore antenna length? "High Frequency" is only in relation to even lower frequencies. Above HF is VHF (very high) and UHF (ultra high) which is what you'll find on the right side of the chart. The higher the frequency the more line of sight, for the most part. "HF" band contains the lowest frequencies you would ever use for radio comms as an amateur. To convert frequency to wavelength it's 300 (speed of light, in millions of meters per second) divided by the frequency in MHz (millions of cycles per second). Result is the length in meters of one cycle. Antennas are then based off the wavelength, usually some fraction of. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 6:05:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ever deal with IT dept help desk people who field the same questions every day? Amateur radio as a technical hobby has a very high percentage of, surprise, technically oriented people like IT folks, engineers, etc. Nerds. Sorry if nerds offend you. And yes they tend to be prickly about rules. People don't know how much trouble they can cause by being stupid, which is a lot, and then nerds get called out to deal with. Amateur radio specifically tend to be particular about their own domain as it's required to maintain the order of their self-regulated environment. They get to have and keep "nice things" like the ability to talk to the ISS, have their own satellites, and talk all around the world because they can establish and follow rules. Slight difference in the IT its their job to answer stupid questions over and over. Here, only those that love it enough to help share the info. They don’t have to. But they do still come and complain about it like its their job. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 6:18:10 PM EDT
[#48]
@Arowneragain
AM, FM and PM are just different methods of modulation. For instance, AM is "amplitude modulation" That means the "power" domain of the waveform is being modulated. It is particularly prone to electrical interference simply because any pulses of RF (like from a spark plug, lightning, etc) send noise across the spectrum. Some of that power (noise) is additive to the modulation of the carrier and you hear it as static or interference. FM (or frequency modulation) means that the waveform is being manipulated in the time domain. The time domain is much less sucspeptable to those kinds of interference than the power domain is. Make sense? As for antenna, 1/2 and 1/4 wave lengths are very popular of any given frequency. Obviously, the HF band antennas can be yards long, while VHF and UHF can be feet or fractions thereof.......... Dipole calculator Vertical calculator |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 6:23:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would like to know how I can communicate to a friend 15 miles away with handheld/ antenna/ battery through many trees and flat ground. For hopefully under $150. Buy a cell phone. Seriously. There is no off the shelf solution to what you want w/o getting into technical stuff which you don't want to learn. This is a physics issue with LOS dealing with VHF/UHF radios. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 6:30:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't. Unless you use a repeater, or put up a couple antenna towers and antennas, or you're standing on a moutaintop or big hill to have a direct (or nearly so) line of sight over that 15 mile path. That's because of physics not any regulatory issue. If you want access to repeaters, you need a GMRS license, an amateur license, or a licensed Land Mobile system (either yours or rental). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I would like to know how I can communicate to a friend 15 miles away with handheld/ antenna/ battery through many trees and flat ground. For hopefully under $150. You don't. Unless you use a repeater, or put up a couple antenna towers and antennas, or you're standing on a moutaintop or big hill to have a direct (or nearly so) line of sight over that 15 mile path. That's because of physics not any regulatory issue. If you want access to repeaters, you need a GMRS license, an amateur license, or a licensed Land Mobile system (either yours or rental). Awesome. Thanks. Can go on the back burner for a bit until I figure those things out. |
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