Quoted: Building a wall would be about as effective at keeping illegals out of the country as banning guns is at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.  Walls have always failed.  The Great Wall was a failure, the Maginot Line was a failure, and the Berlin Wall was a failure.  Pool all your forces along the wall, and they'll come around the ends in boats.  Or they'll fly to Canada and come in from the north.  Where there's a will, there's a way.   I'm amused, too, at the blithe disregard for such a project's costs.  It's easy to pay for things when it's not your own money, huh?

You know, this is sounding more and more like a standard Liberal argument pattern. Liberals used to claim that anyone who was in favor of stopping illegal immigration was racist. But, that isn't working anymore - people have started to realize that liberals call anyone who opposes them on anything racist, no matter how little sense it makes.

So, their new argument is to say that it doesn't work. Of course, the reasons and logic are just as nonsensical as the racist claims, but that never stopped them before.

Like I said before, stopping everyone is clearly impossible, and would be pointless to try. We just want to stop most of them. Most of them are poor. They don't have the money to fly to a third country, and then sneak across the border. Building some sort of physical barrier and enforcing it would stop most of them.

Of course, that isn't all there is to do. We should also stop the welfare state, or at least end all transfer payments to non-citizens, and go after employers who hire illegals.

On another side note, it baffles me that Liberals are so supportive of illegal immigration. IMHO, the main purpose of it is to bypass Liberals's favorite laws - minimum wage, workplace safety, tax witholding, unionization, etc. Yet Liberals seem to love it. WTF?

Quoted: Quoted: Building a wall would be about as effective at keeping illegals out of the country as banning guns is at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.  Walls have always failed.  The Great Wall was a failure, the Maginot Line was a failure, and the Berlin Wall was a failure.  Pool all your forces along the wall, and they'll come around the ends in boats.  Or they'll fly to Canada and come in from the north.  Where there's a will, there's a way.   I'm amused, too, at the blithe disregard for such a project's costs.  It's easy to pay for things when it's not your own money, huh?   You know, this is sounding more and more like a standard Liberal argument pattern. Liberals used to claim that anyone who was in favor of stopping illegal immigration was racist. But, that isn't working anymore - people have started to realize that liberals call anyone who opposes them on anything racist, no matter how little sense it makes. So, their new argument is to say that it doesn't work. Of course, the reasons and logic are just as nonsensical as the racist claims, but that never stopped them before. Like I said before, stopping everyone is clearly impossible, and would be pointless to try. We just want to stop most of them. Most of them are poor. They don't have the money to fly to a third country, and then sneak across the border. Building some sort of physical barrier and enforcing it would stop most of them. Of course, that isn't all there is to do. We should also stop the welfare state, or at least end all transfer payments to non-citizens, and go after employers who hire illegals. On another side note, it baffles me that Liberals are so supportive of illegal immigration. IMHO, the main purpose of it is to bypass Liberals's favorite laws - minimum wage, workplace safety, tax witholding, unionization, etc. Yet Liberals seem to love it. WTF?

In addition to all that, I think (if they ever seal the borders) we will need to increase the capacity of INS to process legal immigration applications.  My main gripe is not having had a chance to check them out at all before they get in. Many of them would be welcome, just as long as they do it legally.  However, if they all tried to do it legally right now, the system would be backed up for years if not decades.

Quoted: Quoted: Building a wall would be about as effective at keeping illegals out of the country as banning guns is at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.  Walls have always failed.  The Great Wall was a failure, the Maginot Line was a failure, and the Berlin Wall was a failure.  Pool all your forces along the wall, and they'll come around the ends in boats.  Or they'll fly to Canada and come in from the north.  Where there's a will, there's a way.   I'm amused, too, at the blithe disregard for such a project's costs.  It's easy to pay for things when it's not your own money, huh?   You know, this is sounding more and more like a standard Liberal argument pattern. Liberals used to claim that anyone who was in favor of stopping illegal immigration was racist. But, that isn't working anymore - people have started to realize that liberals call anyone who opposes them on anything racist, no matter how little sense it makes. So, their new argument is to say that it doesn't work. Of course, the reasons and logic are just as nonsensical as the racist claims, but that never stopped them before. Like I said before, stopping everyone is clearly impossible, and would be pointless to try. We just want to stop most of them. Most of them are poor. They don't have the money to fly to a third country, and then sneak across the border. Building some sort of physical barrier and enforcing it would stop most of them. Of course, that isn't all there is to do. We should also stop the welfare state, or at least end all transfer payments to non-citizens, and go after employers who hire illegals. On another side note, it baffles me that Liberals are so supportive of illegal immigration. IMHO, the main purpose of it is to bypass Liberals's favorite laws - minimum wage, workplace safety, tax witholding, unionization, etc. Yet Liberals seem to love it. WTF?

You CAN'T keep illegals out of the US(it belongs to them they have a right to be here)
SO QUIT TRYING, QUIT TALKING ABOUT IT, YOU WILL FAIL TO ACHIEVE YOUR OBJECTIVE

So Just Give Up Already

Just kidding.........big +1 here

.....   I'm sorry but reading all the prior crap that's been going on around the country,  I can't help but laugh at this Crap!!!!!!!!!

 

Quoted: Quoted: Building a wall would be about as effective at keeping illegals out of the country as banning guns is at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.  Walls have always failed.  The Great Wall was a failure, the Maginot Line was a failure, and the Berlin Wall was a failure.  Pool all your forces along the wall, and they'll come around the ends in boats.  Or they'll fly to Canada and come in from the north.  Where there's a will, there's a way.   I'm amused, too, at the blithe disregard for such a project's costs.  It's easy to pay for things when it's not your own money, huh?   You know, this is sounding more and more like a standard Liberal argument pattern. Liberals used to claim that anyone who was in favor of stopping illegal immigration was racist. But, that isn't working anymore - people have started to realize that liberals call anyone who opposes them on anything racist, no matter how little sense it makes. So, their new argument is to say that it doesn't work. Of course, the reasons and logic are just as nonsensical as the racist claims, but that never stopped them before. Like I said before, stopping everyone is clearly impossible, and would be pointless to try. We just want to stop most of them. Most of them are poor. They don't have the money to fly to a third country, and then sneak across the border. Building some sort of physical barrier and enforcing it would stop most of them. Of course, that isn't all there is to do. We should also stop the welfare state, or at least end all transfer payments to non-citizens, and go after employers who hire illegals. On another side note, it baffles me that Liberals are so supportive of illegal immigration. IMHO, the main purpose of it is to bypass Liberals's favorite laws - minimum wage, workplace safety, tax witholding, unionization, etc. Yet Liberals seem to love it. WTF?

The argument is not an ideological one, purely a matter of practicality.  We have a government headed by a bunch of rotten, conniving thieves and run by inept bureaucrats, and you actually trust them to guard the border?  Judging by your comments I'm assuming you would call yourself a conservative, yet your faith in government belies that.  IF a wall could be erected, I can guarantee that it would be ineffective.  It would be poorly built with increasingly skyrocketing costs and would be poorly staffed.  It would be penetrated all over the place almost as soon as it's built, and wouldn't be repaired.  Most importantly, though, the political will is lacking.  The majority of the bridges in DC are in disrepair and in danger of collapsing, and Congress has foisted those responsibilities onto the DC government, which itself could care less.  Why would the government care any more about the southern border?

If you really are serious about stopping illegal immigration, here's how to do it.

1.)  End the welfare state.  Period.  Cold turkey.  No welfare, no Medicare, no Social Security, no food stamps, no public education, no nothing.  That's guaranteed to stop the freeloaders.  The welfare state is the heart of the problem, and any immigration plan which doesn't contain destruction of the welfare state at its core is fundamentally misguided.

2.)  If you still feel there's a problem, foster the general will to police the border effectively.  All the walls in the world won't do anything if there is no will to defend them, and right now that is the crux of the problem.  The politicians are not facing the issue and have no desire to, nor does the vast majority of the population seem to feel strongly one way or the other.  A wall built under the present political climate is a paper tiger.

3.)  If you still feel the necessity for a wall, enlist the the aid of the private sector.  The Minutemen showed the effectiveness of non-governmental patrols, and I believe that the most effective, efficient way to build a wall would be through private funding, with private patrols.  

This obviously leaves us the question of who will pay for it.  If there truly is a need, the project will get enough funding.  If there is insufficient funding to build a wall, then there obviously aren't enough people who feel strongly enough about it to support the project.  Forcing the populace to support such a project through taxation is thoroughly immoral, nor is it "conservative" by any stretch of the imagination.

You may be correct in your assertion that these immigrants are poor, as they certainly are in comparison with Americans.  However, these are not people who live only in the border areas who are coming over; most of them travel from all over Mexico and Central and South America to reach the border.  That takes money.  Enough to fly to Canada?  Not in all cases, certainly, but those who pay smugglers to bring them across certainly have enough.  Furthermore, for those coming from the farther reaches of Mexico and from Central America, a wall would be a miniscule hurdle in comparison to the journeys they had already made.  

Your pejorative use of the word "Liberal" makes you guilty of the same fallacious errors (ad hominem) you accuse the Left of committing.  Not only is your logic faulty, you are factually incorrect as well, as I was a conservative well before it was cool.  But as the last 12 years have shown us, many of those who have loudly claimed their conservativeness have proven to be anything but conservative.

Too bad we can't get the illegals to go south as easily...