It is true, and historical... so why "colorize" it? Because Liberal multi-culturalists HAVE TO insert race into EVERYTHING. They make it an issue when it is totally unnecessary.

Had they simply changed the context (e.g. a dozen firefighters sifting through the rubble) it would not be an issue at all. That would have been an "artistic rendering." This is simply historical fraud.



It's a public monument and thus people can object. Not that the multi-culturalists and "civil rights activists" have ever had any problem protesting things that are private ("your money, your statue, no big deal") and none of their business. They've made careers out of it.



Not really. And by income wasps are only marginally better off than blacks, with many other (and non-white) ethnicities having a higher average income.

This thing kind of reminds me of the vandals and other barbarians who (after sacking Rome) would hack the heads off of statues of famous Romans, sometimes to be replaced with busts of themselves. Jealousy, nothing more.



They will probably just show a picture of the monument! But it could be as bad as in the former Soviet Union where they would remove the purged from official photographs, which they continued to use. Eventually there would be a "historical" picture (still being printed) of Stalin and one other guy, two places over, where there used to be a half dozen party members!



Yes, they'll say, "Why would you want to ruin the beautiful moment of the black, white and hispanic man SPONTANEOUSLY raising the flag?"

You and I are racists for even mentioning it. Ssshhhhhhhhh!!!

So many excellent points you raise.  All of which indicate that this statue will forever be a testament to the idiotic and racist hypocracy of multiculturalism rather than a tribute to the fallen heroes.

-----------------------------
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/12/rec.firefighter.statue/index.html[/url]:
"But Kevin James, a member of the Vulcan Society, which represents black firefighters, welcomed the design.

"The symbolism is far more important than
representing the actual people," he said. [b]"I think the artistic expression of diversity would supersede any concern over factual correctness."[/b]
-----------------------------


Of the city's 11,500 firefighters, 2.7 percent are black and 3.2 percent Hispanic, Gribbon said. Twelve of the firefighters who died were black; the number of Hispanic victims was not immediately available."


This is what liberalism is reducing us to.  "Factual correctness" is not good enough.  LIBERALS know better than TRUTH itself what is good for society.

I suppose we should all thank the Democ[b]rat[/b]/Liberal/Social-Engineers for being so wise and intelligent to see that the truth is detrimental to society and that only through THEIR wisdom, America will be better off.
[puke]

First, let me say that I really do appreciate the comments. Really!  But ALL art is revisionist, and EVERY re-telling of history as well.  And you guys KNOW that.  How many times have you complained of just that thing?  Or *failed* to complain about it when the depiction was one you approved of?

How much revision is enough, and how much is too much?  Shouldn't it be just as bad if they made the figures a little thinner, a little taller or more handsome?  How about putting them in a slightly different setting?  Changing the participants?  Created a scenario that "could" or "should" have been true?  Gee, *that* has never happened...

You sound like this NEVER happens in art or history, or that such things are ALWAYS happening to the poor victimized white man- I can't tell which, really.  This is an instance where you see it as it's happening.  Those who have the power to commission the work get to say how "history" looks.  

I guess art should always represent exactly what it depicts?  Come on, that's not reality!


And since you bring it up, what's that saying about ignoring the gorrilla in the living room? Just why is it that in that great (ahem) "melting pot" that is New York city, "...of the city's 11,500 firefighters, 2.7 percent are black and 3.2 percent Hispanic"?  Does that figure bother you at all?  

There is a poll on cnn.com about this right now.

75% that they shouldn't have changed it.

Poor oppressed "whitey"- never seems to get a break.  For some reason being white has never prevented me from reaching my goals.  You?

 This issue has nothing to do with Blacks being Uncle Toms or not respecting the flag. That is a totally wrong view.  I fought in Nam with many Black Men who put their life on the line.  I remember the color line there also until we all were  under fire. Lets get back to what happened the ADMINISTRATION of FDNY, which I work for, has stabbed us in the back.  Black, White, Women who ever. They allowed this along with the Guliani Administration. All of us who work in the field understand. I have spoken to many Black & Hispanic firefighter’s who are also outraged. Lets put the blame in the right place not on the Brother FF/EMS/PD personnel who put their lives on the line Sept 11 2001.
 I was there I along with many of my fellow Brothers & Sisters will never sleep or go through a day without a thought of this coming into our minds. If any of us are to be remembered let it be has one family working together not has Black or White.
 What these people did to the Statue is WRONG, but no field person said change it. The Administration of FDNY allowed this. Please for Gods sake don't put any race down for the stupidity of A*s Hol*s sitting in their Ivory Towers.
                     Thank You
                     Lt.Marc Weinstein
                     FDNY/EMSC
               

I agree with you Am-O-Tramp 100%.  I have lost jobs do to that. So there is no disagreement, there were some replys before which sounded a little racial. Strange when things of the 1950's come back to you. When you look at it back then and now you see how much has changed and also remains the same. That just shows us Black or White we are all Discriminated against by someone. It was called Affirmative Action God help the Human Race.

Outrage?  Outrage?

In one of the most diverse cities in America only 6% of the firefighters are minorities.  The the true outrage is that long in place practices of discrimination systematically excluded blacks and Hispanics from the city fire department.

You people disgust me!

You people disgust me![/quote]

Do you "disgust" easily ?

edpmedic

I'm not a person that wants/likes to see hard working, law-abiding people and their children (of any race) suffer from racism or injustice.

I agree that in reality, it's only a few well connected malcontents, who in order to further their own racist agenda, keep coming up with this sort of divisive PC nonsense.

Agreed, Marc.  Leave it to admin. to do something stupid.  

And thanks for your service!

How many times?  Compared to what?  How many times do you think well qualified minorities have been passed over, completely ignored, or not given a chance to compete equally because they're NOT white?

Look, I know this isn't the place for this discussion, and I am not a fan of affirmative action or quotas.  Nor am I a fan of stupid decisions made by people in power, but this is the world we live in now.  We don't have to like it, and we don't have to agree with it, but we do have to live with it.

Or, we could move someplace better, like, well..., um..., let's see,... damn!  I can't think of any place better.  [:D]

To DScott see your also right that’s why all of us Black/White what ever need to work and make this a true Equal Opportunity work place. I understand what you mean and it hurts me inside that we have to have discussions like this. It started off has a Statue issue what is correct and turns into a racial issue. I am married to a Black Women 15yrs have 2 children, lived in Brooklyn East NY over my Mother-in-law saving for a house. Grew up in a place called FarRockaway. I was a Minority a White/Jew there. I know about racism first hand and from my parents. What are we going to do about it let it be or follow the words of Martin Luther King and JFK? We are either the solution or the problem.  But lets get back on the Statue topic WAS IT RIGHT what they did?

Why should we be surprised? After all NY is the land of the Liberal and the home of the PC.

Truth does not matter to them, they just want to make sure no ones FEELINGS are hurt. If this requires them to sacrifice truth, so be it.

What are you talking about? A well qualified minority would be hired in a minute, as he should be.  Companies are always looking for such individuals and are glad to hire them if they can contribute to the bottom line, it's good business.

It was stupid what they did, but doesn't surprise me.  I also think it's a waste of time to get upset about something like this, and think it becomes either a diversion from what's really important, or another excuse to continue thinking that somehow you're a victim.  I'm sorry, I just have a hard time believing white men have been victimized as many here would like to believe.

I think what King said made sense, about judging a man by his character and not the color of his skin.  I'm OK with that...

Am-O-Tramp:
Just use your common sense for a minute, and think about this little fact regarding the FDNY- only 6% of the 11,500 in the FDNY are Black or Hispanic... do you REALLY think there were only 690 minorities qualified to bne firefighters in ALL of NY?

[url]http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/12/rec.firefighter.statue/index.html[/url]

Now if THAT'S not a racist comment I don't know what is!!

You know you'd be in deep dip if you ever made a comment like that in public or in the workplace.  Remember the cop who was fired recently for saying "oranguatan" or the "gorillas in the mist" comments by LAPD officers.

Obviously your liberal "cultural diversity-sensitivity brainwashing" is wearing off. I'd schedule a follow up adjustment session - just to be sure.

[;)]

DScott: I don't know how to interpret those numbers. But I do know Rev Al and many other civil rights leaders would be throwing fits if the numbers couldn't be explained.

I'll bite here- this would be similar to dropping Ira Hayes from the Iwo memorial, because at the time, indians were considered LOWER than blacks,  hispanics, etc..., but as a representation of an historical event, Ira was in there (hey, whaddaya know, it appears to be a faithful representation of the still of the flag raising!!!!).

Thing is, at the time, Americans had more honor and integrity as a whole as far as I can see. Oh, yeah, the indian treatment comes from a primary source, my half-Iroquois grandfather, who was serving in the Navy during WWII.

This rambling story is mainly to say that this historical revisionism is the most vile, dishonorable state of affairs that we, as Americans, could be party to should we refuse to make our outrage heard outside of our circle here.

Don Out!

I'll schedule another "tune-up" right away!  Maybe that re-conditioning is really only skin deep!  [:P]