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Posted: 6/17/2009 4:20:16 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.

Actually, that IS a bash of Mormonism. (don't get me wrong.... it's not a mean 'bash') But you make it sound like anyone who's intelligent and well read must actually be off their rocker to believe in the religion.

Perhaps you merely haven't researched the doctrines fully yet? Or perhaps you've listened too much to the anti-Mormon spins that have been regurgitated for so long by other denominations who are somewhat put-out by losing so many members to the LDS faith...

I found that the more I researched the LDS church (including its history and doctrines), the MORE I believed it. The key is to let go of the rhetoric, and search for yourself. I'm not trying to convert anyone, and I really don't want to get into a doctrine discussion in GD. I'm just pointing out that many of us have thought it through, in depth, and quite rationally (along with a very healthy dose of spiritual faith). I'm just sayin'.....

I was debating Stake presidents @ 12 years old. I am fully versed in LDS doctrine.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:21:04 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.

Well first off you can explain your comments about him being a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. There isn't a thing that I've seen him do that doesn't mesh with the LDS faith. LDS members are friends of the Constitution. Tell me another religion that believes the Constitution is a sacred document written by men brought up by God for this specific purpose? You'd be wise to bite your lip and welcome your American brethren.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:21:07 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

You must be in UT county. Leave UT county and liquor can be had on Sundays. FYI, this is not unique to UT.

There's no gambling in CA either, as well as many other states. Point being?

If there's a demand for raunchy strip clubs, they'd exist. However BYU undergrads generally don't make the best strippers.

I agree with you on the Smoking thing. It's a bit over the top. I don't smoke, but that's neither here nor there.

I have a serious problem with the smoking bans in private businesses too, but that has NOTHING to do with the LDS church. Hell, they implemented that HERE.... in 'Sin City' of all places. That's a liberal agenda, not an LDS one. (SLC itself has become quite liberal) What you'll find though is that since the vast majority of LDS members don't smoke themselves, they think the smoking bans don't effect them. Anyone who votes against private property rights like that is NOT thinking things through. That applies across the entire spectrum- regardless of religion, race, etc.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:21:48 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
how is he a hypocrite?

he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.

Simply not true. Next?

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:22:01 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.

People like you truly fascinate me. You claim not to believe yet you spend so much of your energy constantly trying to stir up contention.

Your "understanding" of the relationship between our religion and government is weak at best. Here is a quote from our leadership in 1998 that sets our beliefs concerning our rights and duties as members of the church:

The First Presidency asked that the following letter, dated 15 January 1998, be read in sacrament meetings in the United States.

“We wish to reiterate the divine counsel that members ‘should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness’ (D&C 58:27) while using gospel principles as a guide and while cooperating with other like-minded individuals.

“Through such wise participation as citizens, we are then in better compliance with this scripture: ‘Governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and … he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them’ (D&C 134:1).

“Therefore, as in the past, we urge members of the Church to be full participants in political, governmental, and community affairs. Members of the Church are under special obligations to seek out and then uphold those leaders who are wise, good, and honest (see D&C 98:10).

“Thus, we strongly urge men and women to be willing to serve on school boards, city and county councils and commissions, state legislatures, and other high offices of either election or appointment, including involvement in the political party of their choice.

“While the Church does not endorse political candidates, platforms, or parties, members are counseled to study the candidates carefully and vote for those individuals they believe will act with integrity and in ways conducive to good communities and good government. Hence, political candidates are asked not to imply that their candidacy is endorsed by the Church or its leaders.

“As always, Church facilities may not be used for political purposes, nor Church directories or mailing lists.”

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:22:39 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:23:07 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:

For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.

Your avatar freaks me out. Really. It is disturbing. Anyways, on topic...

I grew up (mostly) in southern Idaho, I was the only non-Mormon kid on my highschool cross country team. I was one of the only non-Mormons in my highschool. There is no love between me and the LDS church, or most any other Christian church for that matter. I hate when people try to convert others to there beliefs, among other things that I find annoying or disturbing about the LDS church. That all said, if I am going to be surrounded by goyim than Mormons are really not bad at all. As a whole they are conservative, hard working, and good people in my experience. I appreciate their culture for what it is, and if there was a group of religious people who were going to control the local government, then after Jews (not that I am biased

) Mormons would be my pick. You ought to consider yourself lucky given the other options you have. The stereotype LACs (Liberal Atheist Californians) could control your state. Consider youself blessed.

-Ben

I was going to post the exact same thing.

Except I grew up in Ogden not southern Idaho.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:23:15 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:

how is he a hypocrite?

he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.

Beck seems like more of a 'little L' libertarian in that he doesn't subscribe to EVERYTHING the Libertarian party preaches. I'm sure just about everyone will split with their party on one issue or another. How exactly does that make one a hypocrite?

yeah your right, Im sure you can be libertarian and a dedicated member of the nation of islam as well.

Think of how many Democrats are actually pro-gun. Or how many Catholics vote Democrat- or vote pro-choice instead of pro-life. Don't be disingenuous. A person tends to affiliate themselves with the party which MOST represents their personal beliefs. You should know better than that.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:23:38 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

I am not a former member of the church and I dont claim to be. It is known that just about every member of the state government is a member of the church, and the government often meets with the church to get approval before passing laws. The liquor laws are a prime example. Liquor is regulated by the DABC which its members are appointed. Every single one of the DABC board members are part of the church. It is no different than having an local government organization to regulate firearms and appoint nothing more than anti gun liberals that have never shot a firearm in their lives.

Actually, liquor laws are about the ONLY example, especially in Salt Lake City. Other than liquor and gay marriage, there's very little that they are involved in.

When you get into some of the smaller towns (especially into Utah County, where I won't even get off of I15!), then the local people, who are religious, have some even tighter laws - but it isn't the Church doing it, it's just that the people there have such small-town mentalities. In fact, I think that you can't even buy alcohol in Provo on a Sunday, not even at 12:01 am. But that's just Provo, they won't even let you go swimming on a Sunday, I don't think. They are not representative of the rest of Utah, nor of the Church as a whole. They are a breed unique unto themselves....

I have a number of friends who are ex-members, including some that are quite bitter against the Church. They complain quite a bit about the Church or its members, but when it comes to the laws, the only thing I ever hear them complain about is the liquor.

People also forget that the reason we have such good firearm-related laws is, in significant part, due to the history of the Church. Also, the reason we still have the death penalty. We could be like New Yawk Or California, where you can't kill criminals, and can't defend yourself from them... no matter where you live, there are ups and downs. Find the balance that suits you, and take the bad with the good.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:24:42 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.

Actually, that IS a bash of Mormonism. (don't get me wrong.... it's not a mean 'bash') But you make it sound like anyone who's intelligent and well read must actually be off their rocker to believe in the religion.

Perhaps you merely haven't researched the doctrines fully yet? Or perhaps you've listened too much to the anti-Mormon spins that have been regurgitated for so long by other denominations who are somewhat put-out by losing so many members to the LDS faith...

I found that the more I researched the LDS church (including its history and doctrines), the MORE I believed it. The key is to let go of the rhetoric, and search for yourself. I'm not trying to convert anyone, and I really don't want to get into a doctrine discussion in GD. I'm just pointing out that many of us have thought it through, in depth, and quite rationally (along with a very healthy dose of spiritual faith). I'm just sayin'.....

I was debating Stake presidents @ 12 years old. I am fully versed in LDS doctrine.

thanks for the good laugh.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:25:33 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.

Actually, that IS a bash of Mormonism. (don't get me wrong.... it's not a mean 'bash') But you make it sound like anyone who's intelligent and well read must actually be off their rocker to believe in the religion.

Perhaps you merely haven't researched the doctrines fully yet? Or perhaps you've listened too much to the anti-Mormon spins that have been regurgitated for so long by other denominations who are somewhat put-out by losing so many members to the LDS faith...

I found that the more I researched the LDS church (including its history and doctrines), the MORE I believed it. The key is to let go of the rhetoric, and search for yourself. I'm not trying to convert anyone, and I really don't want to get into a doctrine discussion in GD. I'm just pointing out that many of us have thought it through, in depth, and quite rationally (along with a very healthy dose of spiritual faith). I'm just sayin'.....

I was debating Stake presidents @ 12 years old. I am fully versed in LDS doctrine.

right

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:27:01 PM EDT

[#12]

The Local Dive Shop runs Utah?

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:27:08 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Sounds like you are unhappy... so move somewhere else that meets your approval.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:27:55 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.

Actually, that IS a bash of Mormonism. (don't get me wrong.... it's not a mean 'bash') But you make it sound like anyone who's intelligent and well read must actually be off their rocker to believe in the religion.

Perhaps you merely haven't researched the doctrines fully yet? Or perhaps you've listened too much to the anti-Mormon spins that have been regurgitated for so long by other denominations who are somewhat put-out by losing so many members to the LDS faith...

I found that the more I researched the LDS church (including its history and doctrines), the MORE I believed it. The key is to let go of the rhetoric, and search for yourself. I'm not trying to convert anyone, and I really don't want to get into a doctrine discussion in GD. I'm just pointing out that many of us have thought it through, in depth, and quite rationally (along with a very healthy dose of spiritual faith). I'm just sayin'.....

I was debating Stake presidents @ 12 years old. I am fully versed in LDS doctrine.

I really like you, hondaciv.... but that's just....

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:28:25 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

So you choose to live there, their state, their rules.
Don't like it......GTFO
Just don't come here and bitch about it when you can choose to leave.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:28:51 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.

Actually, that IS a bash of Mormonism. (don't get me wrong.... it's not a mean 'bash') But you make it sound like anyone who's intelligent and well read must actually be off their rocker to believe in the religion.

Perhaps you merely haven't researched the doctrines fully yet? Or perhaps you've listened too much to the anti-Mormon spins that have been regurgitated for so long by other denominations who are somewhat put-out by losing so many members to the LDS faith...

I found that the more I researched the LDS church (including its history and doctrines), the MORE I believed it. The key is to let go of the rhetoric, and search for yourself. I'm not trying to convert anyone, and I really don't want to get into a doctrine discussion in GD. I'm just pointing out that many of us have thought it through, in depth, and quite rationally (along with a very healthy dose of spiritual faith). I'm just sayin'.....

I was debating Stake presidents @ 12 years old. I am fully versed in LDS doctrine.

It was probably them telling you that you were not paying attention to what they were saying, and spouting off whatever feeds that little fire in your soul.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:30:37 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

you like to argue. no offense but that is why you love to post this type of stuff.......to argue. perfect troll style post.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:31:54 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

I am not speaking out of both sides of my mouth, and I am not telling you to GTFO. Im' just asking for actual facts and incidents to back up your statements. That's all. I'm not looking to pick a fight––but I don't like to see ANY group singled out for your perceived problems without solid evidence to provide backup for those accusations.

Sterlings' reference to the I-80 was basically saying "You don't have to be here." So if you have a problem with where you are, you can either try to change it ,or leave.

You may be happy to hear that the state is becoming less and less LDS-centered as more liberals move in from CA. Unfortunately that provides a direct threat to your gun legislation.

So whom would you choose? Patriots whose religion tells them that this is the Promised Land and that they should protect and uphold the Constitution, or some lib who lets you buy a 7% beer at Maceys?

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:33:13 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

Forgive my ignorance but, if you want a beer, you are free to buy one, No? I've just moved into the state and I see beer in the supermarkets, and those funny liquor stores. I don't drink so I have no desire to find where to buy one if they are not available.

The local laws don't inhibit me one bit.

Btw, do you even know what the constitution party is?

The platform of the Constitution Party to be predicated on the principles of The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution of the United States and The Bill of Rights.

So what part of your rights have been abused? By all means, bring a law suit against the state if any of your rights have been curbed?

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:33:27 PM EDT

[#20]

So... You're saying that people that are LDS, vote for representatives that are also LDS, that implement policies their LDS constituents like... And you're offended that those policies reflect their religious beliefs?

Heck... I guess we need to start voting in New Yorkers here in Texas... Can't have our representatives implementing policies that Texans like.
I don't know why people hate the Mormons... All I have met are friendly, hard-working, and honest people. There are a lot of worse groups of people on this planet to hate.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:34:54 PM EDT

[#21]

I served my mission in Texas, theres a special place in my heart for that place

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:34:59 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

So you choose to live there, their state, their rules.
Don't like it......GTFO
Just don't come here and bitch about it when you can choose to leave.

Im not bitching about the state, its the most beautiful state in the country. Im bitching about the government, just like you people do every day. Besides, I was complaining about Glenn Beck and his religion, not the state in general.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:35:49 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

So you choose to live there, their state, their rules.
Don't like it......GTFO
Just don't come here and bitch about it when you can choose to leave.

Im not bitching about the state, its the most beautiful state in the country. Im bitching about the government, just like you people do every day. Besides, I was complaining about Glenn Beck and his religion, not the state in general.

So reigning this back in, how is Glenn hypocritical or acting against what the LDS church teaches?

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:36:29 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.

..... Christianity as a whole believes a woman was impregnated by supernatural means, and that her son, after being killed, became a zombie...
Religion is bizarre... sorry.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:37:27 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

So you choose to live there, their state, their rules.

Don't like it......GTFO

Just don't come here and bitch about it when you can choose to leave.

I just don't get why he's bitching about local laws, which as a Constitutionalist he should appreciate since they were decided on by the state populace.

It's got to be that he's just upset that the majority of the local/state government happens to be comprised of LDS church members. Well so what? SLC might not be, but the rest of the state is certainly predominantly LDS. The populace chooses and legally elects its leaders/legislatures from the citizens. Don't like it? Don't like their policies? Think they're too restrictive? Vote someone else in, or move somewhere else.

On that note, I *hate* the fact that all the liberals who've moved to my conservative state have now outnumbered the conservatives, and managed to change my own county into their own liberal haven. As soon as they became Nevadans though, that was their right. So my choice now is to move away from the idiocy that is liberalism.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:37:47 PM EDT

[#26]

Mormons are a hard one to peg here. They are generally nice, decent people from what I have gathered over the years, yet they have this stigma as being this weird cult because of all of the "bizarre" behavior that people claim that they are guilty of.
Not so sure what is so bizarre or out of the ordinary to discuss regarding their doctrine, far as I know they believe is Jesus same as most other so-called Christians. If they have some weird bizarre rituals or some such nonsense that people are getting so hung up over, how is that so much stranger than the twisted shit most people are capable of behind their closed doors. What is normal behavior? Why so much energy put into getting all panty-twisted over a religion most of us couldn't give a damn about anyway?

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:39:48 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

I am not speaking out of both sides of my mouth, and I am not telling you to GTFO. Im' just asking for actual facts and incidents to back up your statements. That's all. I'm not looking to pick a fight––but I don't like to see ANY group singled out for your perceived problems without solid evidence to provide backup for those accusations.

Sterlings' reference to the I-80 was basically saying "You don't have to be here." So if you have a problem with where you are, you can either try to change it ,or leave.

You may be happy to hear that the state is becoming less and less LDS-centered as more liberals move in from CA. Unfortunately that provides a direct threat to your gun legislation.

So whom would you choose? Patriots whose religion tells them that this is the Promised Land and that they should protect and uphold the Constitution, or some lib who lets you buy a 7% beer at Maceys?

Your missing my point, I love freedom, and I think it is absolutely ridiculous that in America I should have to choose what freedoms I can have over another. Do I want my gun rights or 7% beer? Its a sad day in America when you have to ask those types of questions.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:41:20 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
So... You're saying that people that are LDS, vote for representatives that are also LDS, that implement policies their LDS constituents like... And you're offended that those policies reflect their religious beliefs?

"Freedom" and "tolerance" are a lot alike: 99.9% of the people that claim to believe in them, only believe in freedom/tolerance for what THEY WANT TO DO. If the "freedom" or "tolerance" involves something OTHER PEOPLE do that annoys them, it's all out the window.

Quoted:
Heck... I guess we need to start voting in New Yorkers here in Texas... Can't have our representatives implementing policies that Texans like.

I don't know why people hate the Mormons... All I have met are friendly, hard-working, and honest people. There are a lot of worse groups of people on this planet to hate.

Here in Utah, there are some local culture things that can reflect pretty poorly on the Church. It's sad, but it's true.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:41:59 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

So reigning this back in, how is Glenn hypocritical or acting against what the LDS church teaches?

FTR, Glenn Beck is *far* from being the only LDS libertarian. And Harry Reid is *far* from being the only LDS democrat. There are LDS democrats who think that LDS republicans are hypocrites because they don't believe in being 'their brother's keeper.' This whole discussion is asinine.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:42:50 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

I am not speaking out of both sides of my mouth, and I am not telling you to GTFO. Im' just asking for actual facts and incidents to back up your statements. That's all. I'm not looking to pick a fight––but I don't like to see ANY group singled out for your perceived problems without solid evidence to provide backup for those accusations.

Sterlings' reference to the I-80 was basically saying "You don't have to be here." So if you have a problem with where you are, you can either try to change it ,or leave.

You may be happy to hear that the state is becoming less and less LDS-centered as more liberals move in from CA. Unfortunately that provides a direct threat to your gun legislation.

So whom would you choose? Patriots whose religion tells them that this is the Promised Land and that they should protect and uphold the Constitution, or some lib who lets you buy a 7% beer at Maceys?

Your missing my point, I love freedom, and I think it is absolutely ridiculous that in America I should have to choose what freedoms I can have over another. Do I want my gun rights or 7% beer? Its a sad day in America when you have to ask those types of questions.

Funny for a dry state, I found 2300 listings for beer and 84103.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=beer+84103&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&view=text&ei=RI05SuHJGaeetwfm9anVDA&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&cd=2&resnum=1

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:44:48 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Here in Utah, there are some local culture things that can reflect pretty poorly on the Church. It's sad, but it's true.

I lived in Utah for two years, and still visit family there regularly. I agree with you, but I don't think it's any worse than many other areas or their respective religious majorities.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:45:03 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

I am not speaking out of both sides of my mouth, and I am not telling you to GTFO. Im' just asking for actual facts and incidents to back up your statements. That's all. I'm not looking to pick a fight––but I don't like to see ANY group singled out for your perceived problems without solid evidence to provide backup for those accusations.

Sterlings' reference to the I-80 was basically saying "You don't have to be here." So if you have a problem with where you are, you can either try to change it ,or leave.

You may be happy to hear that the state is becoming less and less LDS-centered as more liberals move in from CA. Unfortunately that provides a direct threat to your gun legislation.

So whom would you choose? Patriots whose religion tells them that this is the Promised Land and that they should protect and uphold the Constitution, or some lib who lets you buy a 7% beer at Maceys?

Your missing my point, I love freedom, and I think it is absolutely ridiculous that in America I should have to choose what freedoms I can have over another. Do I want my gun rights or 7% beer? Its a sad day in America when you have to ask those types of questions.

Well you're in luck! Go to a LIQUOR STORE and not a grocery store and you can get your 7% beer, AND your guns.

Who's a happy camper now?!

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:46:16 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

So you choose to live there, their state, their rules.
Don't like it......GTFO
Just don't come here and bitch about it when you can choose to leave.

I just don't get why he's bitching about local laws, which as a Constitutionalist he should appreciate since they were decided on by the state populace.

It's got to be that he's just upset that the majority of the local/state government happens to be comprised of LDS church members. Well so what? SLC might not be, but the rest of the state is certainly predominantly LDS. The populace chooses and legally elects its leaders/legislatures from the citizens. Don't like it? Don't like their policies? Think they're too restrictive? Vote someone else in, or move somewhere else.

On that note, I *hate* the fact that all the liberals who've moved to my conservative state have now outnumbered the conservatives, and managed to change my own county into their own liberal haven. As soon as they became Nevadans though, that was their right. So my choice now is to move away from the idiocy that is liberalism.

But its not representative of the general public thats the problem. Most of the policy makers and board members are appointed officials. Salt Lake City (utahs largest city) on a good day is maybe 40% mormon. Yet every nanny law basically goes against public opinion. I believe that hindering peoples freedom based on religion is bullshit thats all.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:46:58 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Good thing is, I'm willing to endure the blue codes for the comparatively low crime rate.

Comparatively?

Compared to what? Detroit? Gary?

I live in a large metro area of N.C. and our stats are a quarter of yours. Salt Lake City that is...

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_10_ut.html

Konger

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:47:32 PM EDT

[#35]

Here's a hint kid, Glenn Beck doesn't represent the LDS faith or the members of the church.

He does.

Just incase you couldn't tell the difference.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:47:55 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Mormons are a hard one to peg here. They are generally nice, decent people from what I have gathered over the years, yet they have this stigma as being this weird cult because of all of the "bizarre" behavior that people claim that they are guilty of.
Not so sure what is so bizarre or out of the ordinary to discuss regarding their doctrine, far as I know they believe is Jesus same as most other so-called Christians. If they have some weird bizarre rituals or some some nonsense that people are getting so hung up over, how is that so much stranger than the twisted shit most people are capable of behind their closed doors. What is normal behavior? Why so much energy put into getting all panty-twisted over a religion most of us couldn't give a damn about anyway?

Alot of this comes from the fact that we have very strong beliefs in what is right and what is wrong.....like staying away from alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, swearing, the sanctity of the family, etc. We also tend to stay away from places or groups who participate in these activities.

Sometimes, from a non-members view, this makes us look secretive or exclusionary.

Throw in some really misinformed understandings of our doctrine and this is what I think causes the majority of the fascination.

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:51:03 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

I am not speaking out of both sides of my mouth, and I am not telling you to GTFO. Im' just asking for actual facts and incidents to back up your statements. That's all. I'm not looking to pick a fight––but I don't like to see ANY group singled out for your perceived problems without solid evidence to provide backup for those accusations.

Sterlings' reference to the I-80 was basically saying "You don't have to be here." So if you have a problem with where you are, you can either try to change it ,or leave.

You may be happy to hear that the state is becoming less and less LDS-centered as more liberals move in from CA. Unfortunately that provides a direct threat to your gun legislation.

So whom would you choose? Patriots whose religion tells them that this is the Promised Land and that they should protect and uphold the Constitution, or some lib who lets you buy a 7% beer at Maceys?

Your missing my point, I love freedom, and I think it is absolutely ridiculous that in America I should have to choose what freedoms I can have over another. Do I want my gun rights or 7% beer? Its a sad day in America when you have to ask those types of questions.

Well you're in luck! Go to a LIQUOR STORE and not a grocery store and you can get your 7% beer, AND your guns.

Who's a happy camper now?!

Oh you mean the government controlled liquor store that doesnt keep its beer cold because it causes people to drink it too fast? The same government controlled liquor store that has cops watching everybody come in and come out. I guess I can get wine coolers at the liquor store now that they have been banned from grocery stores because the local government thought they were too tempting for minors to drink. Nice, I love me some government control, but I guess that is America these days!

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:52:10 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.

buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?

Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.

Hilarious, I actually love Utah. I dont want to move anywhere. Its beautiful here. You see, you people speak out of both sides of your mouths. I am a constitutionist, I believe in freedom of all kinds, whether it be the ability to buy all firearms or the ability to drink a nice cold full strength beer if I want. I love the fact that if people dont adhere to your specific agenda and government regulation you say GTFO. Makes some of you no different than the exact people you hate and talk shit to day in and day out.

I am not speaking out of both sides of my mouth, and I am not telling you to GTFO. Im' just asking for actual facts and incidents to back up your statements. That's all. I'm not looking to pick a fight––but I don't like to see ANY group singled out for your perceived problems without solid evidence to provide backup for those accusations.

Sterlings' reference to the I-80 was basically saying "You don't have to be here." So if you have a problem with where you are, you can either try to change it ,or leave.

You may be happy to hear that the state is becoming less and less LDS-centered as more liberals move in from CA. Unfortunately that provides a direct threat to your gun legislation.

So whom would you choose? Patriots whose religion tells them that this is the Promised Land and that they should protect and uphold the Constitution, or some lib who lets you buy a 7% beer at Maceys?

Your missing my point, I love freedom, and I think it is absolutely ridiculous that in America I should have to choose what freedoms I can have over another. Do I want my gun rights or 7% beer? Its a sad day in America when you have to ask those types of questions.

Funny for a dry state, I found 2300 listings for beer and 84103.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=beer+84103&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&view=text&ei=RI05SuHJGaeetwfm9anVDA&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&cd=2&resnum=1

mmmmm 3.2% beer. How many of those places can I buy the devils firewater at?

Posted: 6/17/2009 4:52:27 PM EDT

[#39]