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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:18:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Take EDC knife out of pocket, deploy, stick it in their arm until you feel bone. Or thigh. If they are behind you they will be using their legs to keep pressure on the choke. My knife sunk all the way to the butterfly in the meaty part of the quads may change their mind |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:19:22 AM EDT
[#2]
Ok, I only took one bare-handed self defense class and that was 15+ years ago.
Wasn't there some sort of self defense move where you tumble forward, pulling you're assailant over with you, slamming him head first into the ground? I remember the technique, it wasn't too difficult for a bigger guy like me to unbalance someone. They told us it was a lethal move because it would likely break the guy's neck, and while we practiced the grab and pull, we weren't allowed to roll because we would fuck someone up. Anyone else with more recent experience (and training) want to chime in on it? That was a fun class, 80% women. That's where I learned the first rule of knife fighting. You are going to get cut. Avoid knife fighting if at all possible. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:21:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Ok, I only took one bare-handed self defense class and that was 15+ years ago. Wasn't there some sort of self defense move where you tumble forward, pulling you're assailant over with you, slamming him head first into the ground? I remember the technique, it wasn't too difficult for a bigger guy like me to unbalance someone. They told us it was a lethal move because it would likely break the guy's neck, and while we practiced the grab and pull, we weren't allowed to roll because we would fuck someone up. Anyone else with more recent experience (and training) want to chime in on it? That was a fun class, 80% women. That's where I learned the first rule of knife fighting. You are going to get cut. Avoid knife fighting if at all possible. There are two distances in knife fighting. In your car driving away, or on them like a monkey. if you are at arms length, your are in a very dangerous area.... |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:23:26 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: break the wrist, walk away. http://www.unbridledmartialarts.com/Working%20Documents/News/Rex%20Kwon%20Do%201.jpg You beat me to it. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:27:26 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The company I work for, sent all of its employees to "defense" training. They wanted us to tuck our chin and drop through it. They didnt like my idea of grabbing testicles or other sensitive bits and trying to remove them from the attacker. If I have someones back, I can generally react quick enough to avid taking damage to the weak areas. The only time that I'm not that mobile is when I have the choke locked in, and in that case, grab my balls as much as you want becasue in 5-10 seconds you're mine.When defending its all about arm control, keeping the chin tucked and protecting the knowlege knot. Unless you're really good, it takes two arms to choke someone, and my two arms are generally stronger than one of yours. If they dont have the choke then my fight is preventing the choke. If they have the choke, its pretty much game over. Then its time for the crazy shit. More than enough time to rip a pair of balls right off the body. You'll have to decide if continuing the choke hold is worth it as soon as you feel your scrotum begin to rip. If I'm choking someone I'm most likely doing it to save my own life at this point. So yes, I'd rather walk away with no balls than die. Besides, If I'm trying the choke I should have control of their body with my legs most of the time so I find it hard to believe that someone can get a good hold on my balls through my pants while I'm tightly pressed up against them and locked in. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:32:22 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Monkey Steals a Peach Most effective means of escape. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:33:42 AM EDT
[#7]
Watch Bas Rutten's Self Defense videos available on youtube. There is a very effective technique on getting out of a RNC. I have practiced it under 100% chokes and it works.
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:39:20 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Watch Bas Rutten's Self Defense videos available on youtube. There is a very effective technique on getting out of a RNC. I have practiced it under 100% chokes and it works. Link or imbed please? Youtube is bloxor'd here. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:40:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Enjoy...
Or this...
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:45:01 AM EDT
[#10]
My Emerson will get real familiar with whoever is trying to give me surpize buttsecks
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:51:11 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet. starts around 7:30. Walk away. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:52:04 AM EDT
[#12]
All the defenses are contingent upon creating space. Do whatever you have to do to create space to turn into it. You want to grab the balls? You need to create space so you can reach the balls. You want to do some of the slick looking "Self Defense Moves"? Look at them, they all start with space, which lets the guy look slick. The guys who kinda get it will start the move with something that's supposed to create space (usually some stupid slap or poke that wouldn't actually create space unless you were being choked by your little brother over the last piece of pizza), the guys who REALLY get it will show you how to create space with body movement that the other person cannot easily control or avoid.
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:53:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Enjoy...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2sYP3-Yfn0&feature=relatedOr this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aAM28Bl0xoThose 2 videos are a joke.Neither is a properly applied rear naked. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:54:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: In a fight, you don't really feel broken fingers and things like that very much. Hell, I spiral fractured two of my toes half way through one of my brown belt tests. I completed the test and also uke'ed for my friend with those broken toes. I've fought through broken fingers and a nose.Quoted: Quoted: Step 1) Find finger of attacker. Step 2) Break finger. Step 3) Repeat as necessary. Or the alternate: Step 1) Find ear of attacker. Step 2) Pull down hard. Step 3) Repeat as necessary. I'll give you broken fingers in order to put you unconscious and then you're at my whim. It's all about position. How 'bout an ear? Unless we're friends and goofing around, putting me in a choke-hold means I will be tearing things off your body ricky-tick. As for gutting out a broken finger... I don't believe for an instant that you will maintain the same level of hold on me as I am breaking your finger. You may not release entirely, but it'll be enough for me to get air and blood to my body and likely out of the hold before you can re-apply the pressure. My point was, you're wasting time playing checkers when your opponent is playing chess. Breaking a finger or ripping off an ear is not going to change your situation. An eyeball is a different story, but they are next to impossible to access from that position...hence, me saying,"Position is everything". |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:57:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: If from behind, drop your hips and begin elbowing. Hitting the head is preferable. If you're putting your body behind the elbows their hold will quickly loosen enough that you can turn around and face them. Doesn't work. Sounds good in theory. Tori (attacker) will either kick your knee out and off balance you to your rear and maintain superior position OR he will drive you down and stick to you like glue and you won't have room to generate enough power to do anything. Keep in mind you have 5-7 seconds AT MOST against a clean RNC. You have to alleviate pressure and advance your position before doing anything. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 8:59:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: In the .gif, the girl that did the choking was taller by a good margin, and had the other girl leaned back and on her toes. I'm 6 feet tall, so not huge, but tall enough to make that difficult to accomplish on me, unless they took me by complete surprise and put their body weight on me. Then I'm on the ground. I suppose this is also a good time to cover situational awareness, then? You step through the knee of the person you're choking. That makes them shorter. 
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:06:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Groin was legal in early UFC. They were a pointless target in RNC condition because you can't reach them.Quoted: Quoted: The company I work for, sent all of its employees to "defense" training. They wanted us to tuck our chin and drop through it. They didnt like my idea of grabbing testicles or other sensitive bits and trying to remove them from the attacker. If I have someones back, I can generally react quick enough to avid taking damage to the weak areas. The only time that I'm not that mobile is when I have the choke locked in, and in that case, grab my balls as much as you want becasue in 5-10 seconds you're mine.When defending its all about arm control, keeping the chin tucked and protecting the knowlege knot. Unless you're really good, it takes two arms to choke someone, and my two arms are generally stronger than one of yours. If they dont have the choke then my fight is preventing the choke. If they have the choke, its pretty much game over. Then its time for the crazy shit. More than enough time to rip a pair of balls right off the body. You'll have to decide if continuing the choke hold is worth it as soon as you feel your scrotum begin to rip. It's truely all about POSITION, folks. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:06:32 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Enjoy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2sYP3-Yfn0&feature=related
Or this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aAM28Bl0xoThose 2 videos are a joke.Neither is a properly applied rear naked. beat me to it. Those chokes are not locked in with the support hand. Not to mention a well trained person is going to be on your back like a monkey with hooks around your body or legs preventing you from moving a whole lot. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:12:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Eye Gouge.
Either they let go, or you take the Eye. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:13:54 AM EDT
[#20]
My foray into martial asts was spurred by being choked out from behind by a friend with strange ideas about what's funny. Surprisingly, the Yoshida sleeper (carotid "choke") is my favorite item on the menu. Back in my day, we weren't so hampered by the rules regarding its implementation.
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:14:05 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Enjoy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2sYP3-Yfn0&feature=relatedOr this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aAM28Bl0xoThose 2 videos are a joke.Neither is a properly applied rear naked. beat me to it. Those chokes are not locked in with the support hand. Not to mention a well trained person is going to be on your back like a monkey with hooks around your body or legs preventing you from moving a whole lot. That's true. And the technique as sloppy and poorly finished. But, the grabbing the arm and stepping around behind is one of the better first steps. You're not likely going to throw a larger, stronger opponent over you like they do, though. There are better ways. The guys advocating depoying a knife have the best idea. You better be able to do it fast, though and under duress while being thrown about and off balance. It's a good thing to practice, if you carry a knife for defense. It's not as easy as you might think. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:21:09 AM EDT
[#22]
If I remember my LINE training, the first steps are Grab, twist and pull...
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:25:31 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Wouldn't a "head butt" using the back of your head as hard as you can to the other person's face do a pretty good job? Repeat as much as necessary. Did you actually try that with someone?  You obviously have never had any sort of hand to hand defense training.
I suggest you do. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:26:11 AM EDT
[#24]
By the time you find an eye to gouge or find that knife you'll probably already be unconscious.
The way I've been taught on the ground, its worked great for me in competition: 1.) Protect your airway, grip the arm that is over or around your neck and start pulling with both arms. 2.) Bridge as high as you can and drive your shoulders/neck past his. At this point most of the choke's pressure has been relieved and you aren't in much danger of going unconscious. 3.) Lean towards the side that the arm that is on top of your throat is pointing until your shoulder is touching the ground. 4.) Rotate into your attacker until your opposite shoulder is on the ground. At this point you are free. 5.) Take the mount. If you lean into the wrong side the escape is a little more difficult, I can explain that if anyone is interested. If someone comes up behind me and is stupid enough to try to put on a choke hold from the standing position then I'll change levels by dropping with knees bent, raising slightly to load up my opponent and taking them over my shoulder for a seoi nage or koshi garuma type throw. Then again don't listen to me, keep trying to find that edc knife or gouge those eyes I'm sure that'll work wonders. I've fought with broken fingers/toes, didn't notice it until after the match. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:28:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Take EDC knife out of pocket, deploy, stick it in their arm until you feel bone. Better to slice the inner thigh right up by the nutsack, severing the femoral artery, and continue with stabs up into the groin. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:29:15 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Give him a break. He was asking a question and not just throwing out things, matter of factly like "Just eye gouge or rip his testicles off" that work about equally as well. Quoted: Wouldn't a "head butt" using the back of your head as hard as you can to the other person's face do a pretty good job? Repeat as much as necessary. Did you actually try that with someone? You obviously have never had any sort of hand to hand defense training.I suggest you do. If you're curious about grappling/self defense, I'm sure there are some dojos in your area. Go check them out. I've never heard of anybody regreting learning something new. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:38:17 AM EDT
[#27]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHt45gDgplE&feature=related
Skip to about :35 This give you an idea of how quickly it can happen. It shows you how ineffective trying to gouge eyes or break fingers or grab genitles would be. Also notice the likelyhood of accessing your knife in a pocket. Granted this is a controlled, grappling enviornment. That doesn't change how effective and hard to defend this technique is. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:47:15 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
An eyeball is a different story, but they are next to impossible to access from that position...hence, me saying,"Position is everything". And much harder to dislodge than most think. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 9:50:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
The guys advocating depoying a knife have the best idea. You better be able to do it fast, though and under duress while being thrown about and off balance. It's a good thing to practice, if you carry a knife for defense. It's not as easy as you might think. And a dandy argument for carrying a small, fixed blade like a TDI, or similar. I'm pretty sure I could get most guys out before they flipped their knife open and managed to get it into me. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:02:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: An eyeball is a different story, but they are next to impossible to access from that position...hence, me saying,"Position is everything". And much harder to dislodge than most think. In my experience, you don't have to pop it out. Just a finger sunk in to the knucle will do. I've seen some seriously tough guys reduced to a snorting heap from a thumb in the eye. It would be one inhumanly stoic individual who could fight through that. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:03:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Why not just kick the shit out of one of their knees? I'm pretty sure a shattered ACL/MCL would end the choke pretty quickly.
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:07:11 AM EDT
[#32]
Well if someone strong sinks a proper rear naked choke onto you, you will probably not be able to do a fucking thing about it before passing out. In Judo I've gotten people on their way before tapping in a couple of seconds. Always tuck your chin into your chest if you feel anything wrapping around your neck. But if they haven't sunk it in all the way I prefer to bend forward, step behind and grab their legs, pick them up and bodyslam all 250lbs of me on top of their ribs. Works best on pavement. If that doesn't work, I'll use old faithful I carry with me always
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:12:52 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Why not just kick the shit out of one of their knees? I'm pretty sure a shattered ACL/MCL would end the choke pretty quickly. This goes back to my point. ridgerunners video illustrates exactly the point I was making. An experienced grappler is going to take you to the ground and sink hooks in to tie up your body very quickly, not just stand behind you in an upright position. There is no one 'one size fits all' technique to counter, because it depends alot on your attackers skill level and commitment to do bodily harm. You really have to look at it from two ends of the spectrum, is your attacker a well trained BJJ fighter, or just some thug on the street. Chances are they are the latter, in which case headbutts, eye gouging, and knee strikes just might work. If its the former, as has been previously stated the only true defense is to not get put in that position in the first place. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:20:28 AM EDT
[#34]
i think that my razor sharp, always available Benchmade into their femoral artery would do the trick.
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:34:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: i think that my razor sharp, always available Benchmade into their femoral artery would do the trick. Even if they didn't let go, and you went out after 8 seconds, they're going out after 18-20 seconds. You'll have the advantage of being able to wake up. However, you need more tools in the toolbox for varying circumstances. Refer to the above story about the friend who thought it was funny to choke people. Knife would not have been appropriate in that situation, but being able to turn out of it and repaying the favor with a nice slap to the nutsack might be equally humorous. For non-deadly force encounters (ie, just some asshole grabbing you from behind, "schoolyard" fights, etc) you just need to create space to get turned into them, at which point you have a new set of problems, but the immediacy of being choked is no longer one of them. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:49:01 AM EDT
[#36]
All this talk of going for the balls. Have you guys practiced that much? I have extensive experience and I can tell you they're hard to get at through clothing, even when your "attacker" is cooperating. Strikes, sure. But getting a hold of those suckers is very difficult. Unless y'all roll nekkid or something.
Oh, and people seem really shy about having an eyeball scooped out, IME.
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:53:56 AM EDT
[#37]
Well, it looks like I will be seeking professional training. Not that I expect to have to use it, but you never know. We could have a London-esque riot or a lower class uprising at any time. Or I might be at the wrong bar at the wrong time and sorta look like the guy that some dude's wife cheated on him with.
ETA: Damn phone... |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:55:07 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
All this talk of going for the balls. Have you guys practiced that much? I have extensive experience and I can tell you they're hard to get at through clothing, even when your "attacker" is cooperating. Strikes, sure. But getting a hold of those suckers is very difficult. Unless y'all roll nekkid or something. Oh, and people seem really shy about having an eyeball scooped out, IME. I volunteer to have you show me your technique. 
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:58:18 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The company I work for, sent all of its employees to "defense" training. They wanted us to tuck our chin and drop through it. They didnt like my idea of grabbing testicles or other sensitive bits and trying to remove them from the attacker. If I have someones back, I can generally react quick enough to avid taking damage to the weak areas. The only time that I'm not that mobile is when I have the choke locked in, and in that case, grab my balls as much as you want becasue in 5-10 seconds you're mine. When defending its all about arm control, keeping the chin tucked and protecting the knowlege knot. Unless you're really good, it takes two arms to choke someone, and my two arms are generally stronger than one of yours. If they dont have the choke then my fight is preventing the choke. If they have the choke, its pretty much game over. Then its time for the crazy shit. news flash before that 10 seconds is up i will have opened my boker auto and sliced open their femoral artery last thing they will see is me while they bleed the fuck out. I aint calling for the medic until its too late 
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:07:10 AM EDT
[#40]
Tactics are irrelevant if you do not practice them regularly. A proper choke will put you out in a matter of seconds. If you are not trained to react immediately you are going out. It is also a fairly odd/painful experience that will more than likely completely remove your ability to think if you are not used to it.
In short, don't get put in a choke hold or you are done. Focus on putting two of your arms on one of your attackers to prevent the choke from being locked in and get out of that position as soon as possible. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:11:04 AM EDT
[#41]
To those talking about drawing a knife, where do you normally keep your knife? In a front pocket? In a holster on the side of your hip?
Look at this picture and tell me how you are going to grab a knife that's trapped under someone's leg. 
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:12:28 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: To those talking about drawing a knife, where do you normally keep your knife? In a front pocket? In a holster on the side of your hip? Look at this picture and tell me how you are going to grab a knife that's trapped under someone's leg. http://i56.tinypic.com/25asqbb.png well then...keep it in the attacker's pocket for easy access. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:14:18 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
To those talking about drawing a knife, where do you normally keep your knife? In a front pocket? In a holster on the side of your hip? Look at this picture and tell me how you are going to grab a knife that's trapped under someone's leg. http://i56.tinypic.com/25asqbb.png I keep my knife on a pocket behind the side cargo pocket in my cargo shorts so I could easily access it. Not that it matters. You need both hands to prevent the choke from being locked in and if that fails you are going to be out before you can deploy and use the knife. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:14:18 AM EDT
[#44]
eye gouge/cock punch |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:19:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
To those talking about drawing a knife, where do you normally keep your knife? In a front pocket? In a holster on the side of your hip? Look at this picture and tell me how you are going to grab a knife that's trapped under someone's leg. http://i56.tinypic.com/25asqbb.png There's a solution for that
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:24:51 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Tactics are irrelevant if you do not practice them regularly. A proper choke will put you out in a matter of seconds. If you are not trained to react immediately you are going out. It is also a fairly odd/painful experience that will more than likely completely remove your ability to think if you are not used to it. In short, don't get put in a choke hold or you are done. Focus on putting two of your arms on one of your attackers to prevent the choke from being locked in and get out of that position as soon as possible. I've seen the attitude/delusion hundreds of times. "I'll just shoot you" "I'll draw my knife and carve you up" "I'll gouge your eyes/bite you/rip your balls off". It's good to have a gun, knife, know how to fight like an animal. If you don't train in situational awareness, hand to hand, gun retention, grappling those other tools are very likely next to useless in real world scenarios against anyone who remotely knows what they're doing. If you're up against an idiot loser who is after an easy target, you'll probably be as ok using your gun or knife as you would be with harsh language and swinging your purse. I prefer to not delude myself, nor train to the lowest threat possibility. I don't carry a .22 and use the logic "Well, I wouldn't want to get shot with that". I carry a 9mm or .45 and use the logic "This weapon, as a reasonably concealable tool, will give me the best chance of stopping the biggest meanest SOB I could come in contact with". How many of those who advocate using a knife have EVER...EVEN ONCE practiced drawing that knife and deploying it while being attacked...much less attacked compotently with good technique and not some half hearted roughing up by some instructor, to whom you've paid money and he wants you to feel good about what you're "learning"??? |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:42:49 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
To those talking about drawing a knife, where do you normally keep your knife? In a front pocket? In a holster on the side of your hip? Look at this picture and tell me how you are going to grab a knife that's trapped under someone's leg. http://i56.tinypic.com/25asqbb.png There's a solution for that
http://www.mdtactical.com/images/shivworks/cfclinchpick.jpg http://i53.tinypic.com/fksnb7.jpg That's a neat holster. What keeps it closed? How hard is it to open? |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:51:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Best defense... Don't give them your back.
If it is a sneak attack from behind, turtle the kneck, lift shoulders and roll forward This has to been done as soon as you feel the slightest touch. When a RNC is applied ( someone who knows what they are doing) there are precious seconds before panic sets in, the rest is darkness. If it's in a controlled environment the head ache comes next ( after sleepy time). All this knife, nuts and guns ain't gonna help. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 11:55:32 AM EDT
[#49]
There are as many counters to choke holds as there are choke attacks. But they all have some basic across the board defense applications.
* Protect your airway by tucking your chin * Identify the weakest point of attackers choke application * You want to gain leverage as you start to escape. * Be as explosive as possible * Learn to properly strike soft targets. Such as.. Instead of punching the nuts with a closed fist, pendulum strike the groin with the top of your hand below the web of the thumb and pointer finger. You'll get deeper penetration and gain a more dynamic response from your target. * Learn body mechanics. Joints can only move certain ways. Force a joint to move beyond that causes disruption. Also the ring finger is the weakest finger of the hand and can be easily peeled away from the attackers grab attack, no matter how big and strong, my 6yo daughter can defeat his grip. Once you peel away that finger the hand must follow |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 12:20:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Watch Bas Rutten's Self Defense videos available on youtube. There is a very effective technique on getting out of a RNC. I have practiced it under 100% chokes and it works. Link or imbed please? Youtube is bloxor'd here. When i was bouncing i had some fool try a choke and i used a defense from Bas Ruttens SD video to great effect. In the video it was actually a full nelson escape, but it worked just fine.My victim came up behind me during an altercation and attempted a RNC. I stepped to the side and stepped my right leg behind his left leg, curled my body down and grabbed a handful of fabric at each of his knees, then picked up his legs. He continued to hand on to my neck so i dropped him with my elbow (and my substantial weight) driving into his rib cage. He was done fighting. i dont know if/how bad he was hurt. You can see what i mean in this video (skip to 4:05 for what i am talking about). Note, this video is a 6 minute humorous highlight reel of a full length DVD, its funny to watch be is light on actual content. Just youtube "bas rutten self defense" and you will find the full version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y |
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