[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Fenix Lights Vs. Surefire ? (Page 5 of 5)
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So who makes a better pistol light than the X300 or better rifle light than an M600..........? Thats not a fair question because "best" is very subjective. From a standpoint of brightest nearly every manufacturer offers models that handily trounce SF. SF light generation techniques are WAY behind the curve. From a standpoint of fit and finish SF is definitely up there in the top, if not at the top. Reliability is probably hard to really measure as everyone has their success and failure stories. I do know for what I would pay for a M600 I could buy more than 5, count them 5, Olight M20's. The Olight will probably outshine the M600 and shit, I get 5 of them. I can put one on each side of my rail and have more reliability than 1 SF light. Or I could get 4 Olight M30's which will trounce the shit out of the M600. Hell for that I could get a weapon light, a helmet light AND a duty light on my belt! Now if I could get SF at 40-60% off like others then that gives an entirely new dynamic to the SF as a candidate for a weapon light. But the MSRP prices are way way too high for what you get. Lets not overthink this. Its an aluminum body with a few batteries and a clicky cap on the back that closes a circuit. So its hard to say whats a better light than the 2 you offered. As I said, everyone has their success and failure stories. I know the for creating light, which is what a light needs to do, the SF is lagging well behind the competition and charging more than any other manufacturer to do so. With offerings from Insight and Streamlight out there....That makes the SF pill a hard one to swallow at civilian prices. Yep. Best is subjective. I look at traits like reliability, durability, simplicity of use, bulk, weight, run time, brightness and in the case of weapon lights the design of the integral rail mount. Problem being, SF isnt the leader in some of those categories. If you take the above mentioned M600 and compare it to an Olight M20 the Olight put out more light, weighs less, has a longer runtime and supports rechargeable batteries. Thats a pretty strong argument that SF is losing, or in fact has lost, its crown achievement of being the "best of the best". ETA: Page 5, woohoo! |
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Seems like a good thread to ask. Any of these new companies make an equivelent of the M900 Surefire? I kind of want one for my MRP SBR but don't want to pay Surefire price for it. M900 is not a very popular light. You should be able to find a slightly used example for around $250.00 Why not get a used M951 series for around $125.00 and the vert grip of your choosing? |
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So who makes a better pistol light than the X300 or better rifle light than an M600..........? Thats not a fair question because "best" is very subjective. From a standpoint of brightest nearly every manufacturer offers models that handily trounce SF. SF light generation techniques are WAY behind the curve. From a standpoint of fit and finish SF is definitely up there in the top, if not at the top. Reliability is probably hard to really measure as everyone has their success and failure stories. I do know for what I would pay for a M600 I could buy more than 5, count them 5, Olight M20's. The Olight will probably outshine the M600 and shit, I get 5 of them. I can put one on each side of my rail and have more reliability than 1 SF light. Or I could get 4 Olight M30's which will trounce the shit out of the M600. Hell for that I could get a weapon light, a helmet light AND a duty light on my belt! Now if I could get SF at 40-60% off like others then that gives an entirely new dynamic to the SF as a candidate for a weapon light. But the MSRP prices are way way too high for what you get. Lets not overthink this. Its an aluminum body with a few batteries and a clicky cap on the back that closes a circuit. So its hard to say whats a better light than the 2 you offered. As I said, everyone has their success and failure stories. I know the for creating light, which is what a light needs to do, the SF is lagging well behind the competition and charging more than any other manufacturer to do so. With offerings from Insight and Streamlight out there....That makes the SF pill a hard one to swallow at civilian prices. Yep. Best is subjective. I look at traits like reliability, durability, simplicity of use, bulk, weight, run time, brightness and in the case of weapon lights the design of the integral rail mount. Problem being, SF isnt the leader in some of those categories. If you take the above mentioned M600 and compare it to an Olight M20 the Olight put out more light, weighs less, has a longer runtime and supports rechargeable batteries. Thats a pretty strong argument that SF is losing, or in fact has lost, its crown achievement of being the "best of the best". ETA: Page 5, woohoo! The catagories surefire isnt the leader in is Lumens and runtime. Which are the least important traits for a "tactical" light. I can understand the attraction of a 400 lumen light based on cool factor alone. But in real world use you can get the job done with much less. My duty lights all produced between 60 & 80 lumens. I would rather have a durable, reliable lightweight 80 lumen light than a heavy untested 200 lumen light. But the cop or soldier has different requirements than the collector. ETA after you add a mount to the M20 does it really weight less than a 600? |
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Seems like a good thread to ask. Any of these new companies make an equivelent of the M900 Surefire? I kind of want one for my MRP SBR but don't want to pay Surefire price for it. M900 is not a very popular light. You should be able to find a slightly used example for around $250.00 Why not get a used M951 series for around $125.00 and the vert grip of your choosing? Variety mainly 
I've got at least one of most of the others |
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So who makes a better pistol light than the X300 or better rifle light than an M600..........? Thats not a fair question because "best" is very subjective. From a standpoint of brightest nearly every manufacturer offers models that handily trounce SF. SF light generation techniques are WAY behind the curve. From a standpoint of fit and finish SF is definitely up there in the top, if not at the top. Reliability is probably hard to really measure as everyone has their success and failure stories. I do know for what I would pay for a M600 I could buy more than 5, count them 5, Olight M20's. The Olight will probably outshine the M600 and shit, I get 5 of them. I can put one on each side of my rail and have more reliability than 1 SF light. Or I could get 4 Olight M30's which will trounce the shit out of the M600. Hell for that I could get a weapon light, a helmet light AND a duty light on my belt! Now if I could get SF at 40-60% off like others then that gives an entirely new dynamic to the SF as a candidate for a weapon light. But the MSRP prices are way way too high for what you get. Lets not overthink this. Its an aluminum body with a few batteries and a clicky cap on the back that closes a circuit. So its hard to say whats a better light than the 2 you offered. As I said, everyone has their success and failure stories. I know the for creating light, which is what a light needs to do, the SF is lagging well behind the competition and charging more than any other manufacturer to do so. With offerings from Insight and Streamlight out there....That makes the SF pill a hard one to swallow at civilian prices. Yep. Best is subjective. I look at traits like reliability, durability, simplicity of use, bulk, weight, run time, brightness and in the case of weapon lights the design of the integral rail mount. Problem being, SF isnt the leader in some of those categories. If you take the above mentioned M600 and compare it to an Olight M20 the Olight put out more light, weighs less, has a longer runtime and supports rechargeable batteries. Thats a pretty strong argument that SF is losing, or in fact has lost, its crown achievement of being the "best of the best". ETA: Page 5, woohoo! The catagories surefire isnt the leader in is Lumens and runtime. Which are the least important traits for a "tactical" light. I can understand the attraction of a 400 lumen light based on cool factor alone. But in real world use you can get the job done with much less. My duty lights all produced between 60 & 80 lumens. I would rather have a durable, reliable lightweight 80 lumen light than a heavy untested 200 lumen light. But the cop or soldier has different requirements than the collector. ETA after you add a mount to the M20 does it really weight less than a 600? The lights we have been talking about have both huge lumens and huge run time. They are not as durable as surefire, but the are damn close. My pocket lights have 100 to 200 lumens, but also have lower modes that make them suitable for nearly every task. Most of my pocket lights are not tactical, but work lights. I totally agree that 60 to 80 lumens is plenty for tactical use so you don't blind yourself as well as the perp. I have often not recommended certain lights for tactical use because the UI did not allow for turning on the light in the same mode every time without looking at it. I like the TK10 and 11 for tactical use, but don't like the TK15 because the side button would allow for the light to be turned off in a less than desirable mode, and that is the mode it will come on in. That is not acceptable for tactical use. The Quark tactical has two modes quickly available. You can put the bezel tight on high and the bezel loose on medium and keep the bezel tight unless you need long run time. Turbo is usually for showing off. |
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I pay for all my crap. Just a civie here. Having said that the $60 I spent at BravoCompanyUSA for a G2L-FYL bought me a helluva lot better quality than the $100 I spent on an Olight. Never had a Fenix though. But I won't buy into too much internet hoopla since that was the reason I bought the Olight. It came well recommended.  Did you contact O light and explain the situation? I would be they will make it right. Everyone gets a lemon once in a while. You know, like the L1 lumax I have that has gone back to the factory twice after going through two switches. I don't believe surefire is crap since they sold me a lemon. Now it works great for an outdated light.......  I sent it back to BatteryJunction and they said nothing was wrong with it. After it came back I took it apart and fixed it myself. Still I shouldn't have had to fix it myself.
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So who makes a better pistol light than the X300 or better rifle light than an M600..........? Thats not a fair question because "best" is very subjective. From a standpoint of brightest nearly every manufacturer offers models that handily trounce SF. SF light generation techniques are WAY behind the curve. From a standpoint of fit and finish SF is definitely up there in the top, if not at the top. Reliability is probably hard to really measure as everyone has their success and failure stories. I do know for what I would pay for a M600 I could buy more than 5, count them 5, Olight M20's. The Olight will probably outshine the M600 and shit, I get 5 of them. I can put one on each side of my rail and have more reliability than 1 SF light. Or I could get 4 Olight M30's which will trounce the shit out of the M600. Hell for that I could get a weapon light, a helmet light AND a duty light on my belt! Now if I could get SF at 40-60% off like others then that gives an entirely new dynamic to the SF as a candidate for a weapon light. But the MSRP prices are way way too high for what you get. Lets not overthink this. Its an aluminum body with a few batteries and a clicky cap on the back that closes a circuit. So its hard to say whats a better light than the 2 you offered. As I said, everyone has their success and failure stories. I know the for creating light, which is what a light needs to do, the SF is lagging well behind the competition and charging more than any other manufacturer to do so. With offerings from Insight and Streamlight out there....That makes the SF pill a hard one to swallow at civilian prices. Yep. Best is subjective. I look at traits like reliability, durability, simplicity of use, bulk, weight, run time, brightness and in the case of weapon lights the design of the integral rail mount. Problem being, SF isnt the leader in some of those categories. If you take the above mentioned M600 and compare it to an Olight M20 the Olight put out more light, weighs less, has a longer runtime and supports rechargeable batteries. Thats a pretty strong argument that SF is losing, or in fact has lost, its crown achievement of being the "best of the best". ETA: Page 5, woohoo! I would not trust the Olight M20 on a rifle. If things get loose inside when not using it on rifle I would hate to see how loose they would get on a rifle. Want to buy a used one to put on yours? 
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Seems like a good thread to ask. Any of these new companies make an equivelent of the M900 Surefire? I kind of want one for my MRP SBR but don't want to pay Surefire price for it. M900 is not a very popular light. You should be able to find a slightly used example for around $250.00 Why not get a used M951 series for around $125.00 and the vert grip of your choosing? Variety mainly
I've got at least one of most of the others Got it. $250 M900 on the EE http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=148&t=857329 Lots of good deals on the older designs on the EE. People upgrade constantly so you see lots of barly used lights there for a fraction of the cost of new. My Scout light is the old 110 lumen KL4 based model. You cant give those things away right now. |
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2. Louis Awerbuck, who's judgment I trust, uses and speaks well of Fenix lights. Nobody pays him to "endorse" them. I know Louis. If you think he buys all his own gear you're delusional. I know him too. I never said he buys these things. I said nobody pays him to endorse them. Words have meaning. |
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Quoted: What do you guys like as far as lights for a keychain? Klarus Mi 10AL street price $39.95 or the Klarus Mi X5 priced at around $70. I replaced my old Streamlight Keymate with the Mi 10AL. I just love it. Very small yet puts out 80umens in high mode which is almost as much as my Fenix P2D which does about 100 in turbo mode and that runs on a CR123 battery. The Mi10 uses a single AAA.  Yes the run time isn't as long but it's long enough to light your way to a bigger flashlight. You have an IM btw.
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2. Louis Awerbuck, who's judgment I trust, uses and speaks well of Fenix lights. Nobody pays him to "endorse" them. I know Louis. If you think he buys all his own gear you're delusional. I know him too. I never said he buys these things. I said nobody pays him to endorse them. Words have meaning. I'm apologize if I misunderstood. I thought you were implying that those of us in the military, LE and training community who are frequently given samples of new products are somehow bought off by those companies. If a product doesnt live up to expectations I'll say so, no matter how i aquired it. |
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The catagories surefire isnt the leader in is Lumens and runtime. Which are the least important traits for a "tactical" light. I can understand the attraction of a 400 lumen light based on cool factor alone. But in real world use you can get the job done with much less. My duty lights all produced between 60 & 80 lumens. I would rather have a durable, reliable lightweight 80 lumen light than a heavy untested 200 lumen light. But the cop or soldier has different requirements than the collector. ETA after you add a mount to the M20 does it really weight less than a 600? Thats a good question I hadnt thought of. I dont know how the mount affects the weight. Just so we're clear, I'm not trying to say SF makes a bad light. I think they make fantastic lights. Unfortunately I am also of the opinion they stopped innovating a long time ago and as such better products have come along in terms of output, runtime and throw. I still think they have set the bar for reliability though, and while we could argue others may have matched it I certainly wouldnt say anyone has beaten them in that regard. |
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The catagories surefire isnt the leader in is Lumens and runtime. Which are the least important traits for a "tactical" light. I can understand the attraction of a 400 lumen light based on cool factor alone. But in real world use you can get the job done with much less. My duty lights all produced between 60 & 80 lumens. I would rather have a durable, reliable lightweight 80 lumen light than a heavy untested 200 lumen light. But the cop or soldier has different requirements than the collector. ETA after you add a mount to the M20 does it really weight less than a 600? Thats a good question I hadnt thought of. I dont know how the mount affects the weight. I generally do not look at handhelds, no matter how durable, as weapon lights. To me a weapon light has a built in mount. Adding a scope ring or something to a hand held certainly works. But its just more attachment points that can shoot loose at the worst possible time. |
| The one application nobody has matched surefire is weapon lights for pump shotguns. I would like to see some of the other companies make a good effort in that area. Jury rigged solutions like mag tube or brl mounts coupled with pig tail tape switches just dont have the durability or the reliability of the dedicated forend on a pump gun. |
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The one application nobody has matched surefire is weapon lights for pump shotguns. I would like to see some of the other companies make a good effort in that area. Jury rigged solutions like mag tube or brl mounts coupled with pig tail tape switches just dont have the durability or the reliability of the dedicated forend on a pump gun. I agree. |