ExtremeShock™ Ammo and the Box O' Truth Lots of Pics - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ExtremeShock™ Ammo and the Box O' Truth Lots of Pics (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 3/16/2006 10:54:48 AM EDT

[#1]

Thanks for the informative testing. I had serious doubts about the company when I saw their EXTREME ad in Soldier of Fortune next to a Fantasy Commando Mall Ninja knife w/ fangs. You may have saved a lot of people here money - especially at $1.85 per round. Seems like their are very few groundbreaking developments out there - sometimes its best to stick with what you know works.

Posted: 3/16/2006 10:55:01 AM EDT

[#2]

O_P,

How soon will you share this info with the manufacturer, and what are your expectations from their response?

HH

Posted: 3/16/2006 10:55:04 AM EDT

[#3]

very interesting, thanks!

Posted: 3/16/2006 10:59:49 AM EDT

[#4]

Nice
Xd
Results as expected

I actually had a cop this fall try to finish off a Deer with this crap 2 rounds and 20 minutes to bleed out .one thru the skull and one thru the neck yes it was his duty gun and what he was carrying

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:02:46 AM EDT

[#5]

So, the Glaser blue tip is essentially "frangible" ammo? It sounds like if your goal is to reduce any threat of over-penetration, frangible is just as effective as the EXTREME SHOCK at about 10% of the price. Please correct me if I am wrong in my anaylsis, here.

Glaser blue tip is over $1 a round....

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:03:58 AM EDT

[#6]

Once again, awesome work.

And thank you, too, for saving me money. I was thinking of trying those rounds, and now I know they probably aren't worth the investment. I'll stick with Hydra-Shok's.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:06:33 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Once again, awesome work.

And thank you, too, for saving me money. I was thinking of trying those rounds, and now I know they probably aren't worth the investment. I'll stick with Hydra-Shok's.

That's what I use, too...in my Kimber, S&W's, PPK/s, P239 and Colt Det. Spcl.

HH

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:07:13 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
O_P,

How soon will you share this info with the manufacturer, and what are your expectations from their response?

HH

I don't intend to share it with the manufacturer.

As stated in the original post, I met the owner at the SHOT Show. He was a really nice guy and very nice to me.

He obviously believes in his product. He obviously believes that the penetration of his ammo is all that is needed to disable a bad guy. I see no reason to argue with him.

If some folks like his product, then more power to them. It is a product. It is for sale. If they think it is worth the cost, they will buy it.

That's how Capitalism works.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:08:34 AM EDT

[#9]

OUTSTANDING PRESENTATION!!!

Well Done OP! Thanks again. Good research, good analysis and good presentation.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:09:43 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
O_P,

How soon will you share this info with the manufacturer, and what are your expectations from their response?

HH

I don't intend to share it with the manufacturer.

As stated in the original post, I met the owner at the SHOT Show. He was a really nice guy and very nice to me.

He obviously believes in his product. He obviously believes that the penetration of his ammo is all that is needed to disable a bad guy. I see no reason to argue with him.

If some folks like his product, then more power to them. It is a product. It is for sale. If they think it is worth the cost, they will buy it.

That's how Capitalism works.

Wait a minute. This is ARFcom. No reasonableness allowed...

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:10:42 AM EDT

[#11]

Just for reference: EXOTIC AMMO FAQ in the ammo forum

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:10:53 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
O_P,

How soon will you share this info with the manufacturer, and what are your expectations from their response?

HH

I don't intend to share it with the manufacturer.

As stated in the original post, I met the owner at the SHOT Show. He was a really nice guy and very nice to me.

He obviously believes in his product. He obviously believes that the penetration of his ammo is all that is needed to disable a bad guy. I see no reason to argue with him.

If some folks like his product, then more power to them. It is a product. It is for sale. If they think it is worth the cost, they will buy it.

That's how Capitalism works.

Gotcha. It's probably best for each person to decide for themselves and make their choices accordingly anyway.

You would make a fortune writing a book using all of your Box O'Truth tests.

HH

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:12:49 AM EDT

[#13]

And just for reference - if you guys are buying rounds for self-defense, do yourself and look around the net for some objective reviews. Hydra-Shock are NOT a good choice to their well-documented failure to expand after penetrating clothes.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:14:33 AM EDT

[#14]

Thanks for sharing!

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:15:32 AM EDT

[#15]

1.85 a round for a small 9mm?

They need to pay for the packaging...

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:16:02 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Thanks OP, very good test. Also, amny thanks to the HS2000 guys for forking over the $$ for the ammo.

It may be worth noting that the president of Extreme Shock says that standard penetration tests do not show the performance of their ammo. They claim that the ammo is so effective in inducing traumatic shock, that tradtional levels of penetration are not required for incapacitation. I don't necessarily believe the claim, just wanted to mention it.

Holy shit!

Someone alert Stan Bulmer! Somone has infringed on his bullshit jargon trademark!

"The president of Extreme Shock says that standard penetration tests do not show the performance of their ammo." Obviously we haven't been able to test the black voodoo magic they throw into the creation of every round. No wonder those rounds are so expensive - those chickens they have to sacrifice are expensive with the bird-flu scare and all.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:16:36 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Just for reference: EXOTIC AMMO FAQ in the ammo forum

An excellent write-up, Zhukov.

I believe we are in agreement on all main points.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:16:51 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
And just for reference - if you guys are buying rounds for self-defense, do yourself and look around the net for some objective reviews. Hydra-Shock are NOT a good choice to their well-documented failure to expand after penetrating clothes.

True dat.

Here is a Hydra-Shoks from my own testing. It was shot though t-shirt material only, no heavy clothing, and failed to expand. In testing I found over 20% of the Hydra-Shoks had similar failure-to-expand issues.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:17:01 AM EDT

[#19]

Great info! Thanks O_P!

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:18:09 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
OUTSTANDING PRESENTATION!!!

Well Done OP! Thanks again. Good research, good analysis and good presentation.

Well shucks!

I'm all embarrassed.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:19:16 AM EDT

[#21]

We must be killing the pic server..none of the pics are loading.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:20:32 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
1.85 a round for a small 9mm?

They need to pay for the packaging...

makarov.com/graphics/ammo/xs9mm124.jpg

www.extremeshockusa.com/gfx_splash/top_2.jpg

Electricity!

Sparks!

Explosions!

You won't need to SHOOT anyone, just show them this packaging...

Like I said before, I am in advertising and **I** thought this was tacky...

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:21:12 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
And just for reference - if you guys are buying rounds for self-defense, do yourself and look around the net for some objective reviews. Hydra-Shock are NOT a good choice to their well-documented failure to expand after penetrating clothes.

True dat.

Here is a Hydra-Shoks from my own testing. It was shot though t-shirt material only, no heavy clothing, and failed to expand. In testing I found over 20% of the Hydra-Shoks had similar failure-to-expand issues.

www.refugepics.com/members/Pennswoods/Plugged%20HydraShok2.jpg

My findings as well.

See it here: www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot13.htm

Zhukov, I've heard that they have improved that bullet. Have you heard that?

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:27:07 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And just for reference - if you guys are buying rounds for self-defense, do yourself and look around the net for some objective reviews. Hydra-Shock are NOT a good choice to their well-documented failure to expand after penetrating clothes.

True dat.

Here is a Hydra-Shoks from my own testing. It was shot though t-shirt material only, no heavy clothing, and failed to expand. In testing I found over 20% of the Hydra-Shoks had similar failure-to-expand issues.

www.refugepics.com/members/Pennswoods/Plugged%20HydraShok2.jpg

My findings as well.

See it here: www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot13.htm

Zhukov, I've heard that they have improved that bullet. Have you heard that?

...and how far back did they improve it-if they did? I've loaded all of our HG's with FHS's, all purchased in the last 4 months. I'll switch immediately if they weren't improved.

(Pre-conceived notions just exploded for me ...

)

HH

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:28:32 AM EDT

[#25]

Federal has not really changed the Hydra-Shok design. They did come out with their HST, which in its' current iteration is very good.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:33:58 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Zhukov, I've heard that they have improved that bullet. Have you heard that?

OP - Sorry, but I do not know if they've changed their design recently or not. I don't have inndustry contacts, but I figured I'd have heard about it through the grapevine.

I would not stake my life on the Hydra Shock. All of mine are loaded with Speer Gold Dots. Winchester Ranger-T's are supposed to be *slightly* better, but very difficult to get a hold of.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:37:40 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Zhukov, I've heard that they have improved that bullet. Have you heard that?

OP - Sorry, but I do not know if they've changed their design recently or not. I don't have inndustry contacts, but I figured I'd have heard about it through the grapevine.

I would not stake my life on the Hydra Shock. All of mine are loaded with Speer Gold Dots. Winchester Ranger-T's are supposed to be *slightly* better, but very difficult to get a hold of.

Well, that's what I figured.

I found some Ranger SXTs and that's what I have in the guns for Social Purposes.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:39:09 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
...and how far back did they improve it-if they did? I've loaded all of our HG's with FHS's, all purchased in the last 4 months. I'll switch immediately if they weren't improved.

(Pre-conceived notions just exploded for me ... )

HH

sorry, but you would be better off just switching to ranger or gold dot, most current production
ammo FAQ

my brother has a lot of fed. hydra shock, i've given him some boxes of ranger to use in his carry guns.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:43:06 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
They said that the bullet "fragments upon impact, leaving a wound channel of catastrophic proportions. The expansive fragmentation characteristics of the Extreme Shock rounds transfer the bullets energy in a far faster time span than conventional hollowpoints. The resulting stopping power is utterly devastating. E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system."

he......laughing.....too......hard....
Thanks for the test, O_P.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:51:15 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
...and how far back did they improve it-if they did? I've loaded all of our HG's with FHS's, all purchased in the last 4 months. I'll switch immediately if they weren't improved.

(Pre-conceived notions just exploded for me ... )

HH

sorry, but you would be better off just switching to ranger or gold dot, most current production
ammo FAQ

my brother has a lot of fed. hydra shock, i've given him some boxes of ranger to use in his carry guns.

Yeah, sure sounds like it. Gold Dots apparently are easier to get ahold of than the Rangers.

Guess I'll have fun shooting up my FSH's!

HH

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:54:55 AM EDT

[#31]

Thank you Old_Painless!

The B o' T Rocks!

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:55:41 AM EDT

[#32]

Great report and test. Thanx.

I feel that I got my monies worth from what I donated.

An HS2K/XD fan.

Ed

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:57:03 AM EDT

[#33]

Good demonstration.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:57:06 AM EDT

[#34]

FYI,

I've always been able to find plenty of Ranger T's at the Dallas Market Hall gunshow.

Posted: 3/16/2006 11:57:25 AM EDT

[#35]

Thanks OP.

Posted: 3/16/2006 12:03:35 PM EDT

[#36]

When I was taking my basic handgun class at a local shooting range, as a requirement to getting my CHP, the instructor ~~talked about~~ advertised these rounds for at least 30 minutes instead of teaching basic handgun concepts. Some of his claims include "a .380 fang face can kill a 500 lb russian boar, even when hit in the hind quarters, because they cause so much tissue loss that it is not survivable". He demonstrated that the exit wound would be larger then your head, but that they wouldn't penetrate even one interior wall. This was shortly after he demonized black hills "teflon coated cop killers", saying they were taken off the market because the teflon allowed them to go through bulletproof vests and caused grevious wounds when doctors tried to remove the bullet fragments. It was a quality course well worth my $100 and 8 hours of my time.

Posted: 3/16/2006 12:05:26 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
When I was taking my basic handgun class at a local shooting range, as a requirement to getting my CHP, the instructor ~~talked about~~ advertised these rounds for at least 30 minutes instead of teaching basic handgun concepts. Some of his claims include "a .380 fang face can kill a 500 lb russian boar, even when hit in the hind quarters, because they cause so much tissue loss that it is not survivable". He demonstrated that the exit wound would be larger then your head, but that they wouldn't penetrate even one interior wall. This was shortly after he demonized black hills "teflon coated cop killers", saying they were taken off the market because the teflon allowed them to go through bulletproof vests and caused grevious wounds when doctors tried to remove the bullet fragments. It was a quality course well worth my $100 and 8 hours of my time.

Some people who are "instructors" are dumber than posts about firearms, tactics, and ballistics. In fact, their students who profess no knowlege at all are usually much better off knowing nothing than they are listening to such tripe.

Posted: 3/16/2006 12:09:46 PM EDT

[#38]

Those who can't do, teach.

Posted: 3/16/2006 12:12:48 PM EDT

[#39]

Anybody got a pig to donate for further testing?

Posted: 3/16/2006 12:15:47 PM EDT

[#40]

Thanks again for all your work.

______________________________

Posted: 3/16/2006 12:35:32 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Those who can't do, teach.

You sure about that??

Posted: 3/16/2006 12:45:51 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Great report and test. Thanx.

I feel that I got my monies worth from what I donated.

An HS2K/XD fan.

Ed

Many thanks, Ed357SIGEly.

You guys made it possible.

Posted: 3/16/2006 12:46:02 PM EDT

[#43]

Thank you O.P., You are certainly a scholar and a gentleman!

Where are all the people who bought this doodoo and insist on defending it?? It's the ARFCOM way.

Posted: 3/16/2006 1:03:23 PM EDT

[#44]

extreme shit.

Posted: 3/16/2006 1:07:31 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Thank you O.P., You are certainly a scholar and a gentleman!

If I were a university chancellor/president, I'd try to find a way to give Old_Painless an honorary doctorate. They give them to all kinds of people that don't deserve them - like actors and politicians - but Old_Painless is a academic at heart, going out and looking for empirical evidence in the field!

(Not sure if I just insulted or complimented him

)

Posted: 3/16/2006 1:25:36 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Thank you O.P., You are certainly a scholar and a gentleman!

If I were a university chancellor/president, I'd try to find a way to give Old_Painless an honorary doctorate. They give them to all kinds of people that don't deserve them - like actors and politicians - but Old_Painless is a academic at heart, going out and looking for empirical evidence in the field!

(Not sure if I just insulted or complimented him )

I take it as an extreme compliment!

I would like to be, "Old_Painless, Doctor O' Truth".

Posted: 3/16/2006 1:28:32 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Anybody got a pig to donate for further testing?

I'll shoot it, if you'll do the autopsy.

Posted: 3/16/2006 1:31:46 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
I am somehow NOT surprised

/\

Posted: 3/16/2006 1:38:40 PM EDT

[#49]

O.P. If your going to keep doing penetration tests, shouldn't you consider making ballistic geletin?
The stuff isn't that hard to make and I think it would add some legitimacy to your test's.
You are a purveyer of truth, statements like"--bullets penetrate approximately 1.6 to 2 times as much in water as in soft tissue" don't belong in your posts.
Not to mention, what impact do the plastic containers make? Have you tested them?

I'm not slamming on you, I really enjoy your post's.

Posted: 3/16/2006 1:51:47 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
O.P. If your going to keep doing penetration tests, shouldn't you consider making ballistic geletin?
The stuff isn't that hard to make and I think it would add some legitimacy to your test's.
You are a purveyer of truth, statements like"--bullets penetrate approximately 1.6 to 2 times as much in water as in soft tissue" don't belong in your posts.
Not to mention, what impact do the plastic containers make? Have you tested them?

I'm not slamming on you, I really enjoy your post's.

I appreciate your comments.

The statment you quoted is from DocGKR, a noted expert on another forum. I believe the information he gives is correct. Many others agree that he is certainly worth listening to.

I could use ballistic gelatin, but it is an awful lot of trouble and must be refrigerated to a certain temperature and kept at that temperature throughout the tests. I simply do not have the equipment (or the interest) for going to all that trouble.

I believe that the water tests are at least "instructive", if not absolutely perfect. I am satisfied with them at this point.

If you want to help finance me a lab and all necessary equipment, including good looking young girls as "assistants", I will be glad to improve my scientific methods.

If not, then it's just me and the Tman at the range.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ExtremeShock™ Ammo and the Box O' Truth Lots of Pics (Page 2 of 4)

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