[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Equipment of a modern militiaman fighting in UA civil war [updated 3/22, link in OP] (Page 3 of 3)
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Jesus CWG and the other one, you must be older than me to have such a deep seated fear of russia. Are you of refusing to own or shoot an AK b/c it is a commie weapon?? I suppose I can hardly fault you for having this tendency, especially if you were a child in the 60s and served during the cold war and lost buddies in proxie conflicts I guess. What I find most odd is how you talk about our civilization as if we are not ruled by oligarchs. We have a government that is bought and paid for by lobbyists, everyone knows it. It has always been this way, not just since Clinton, or FDR or Lincoln or whenever you might propose the imaginary golden era ended. It comes and throws you in a cage if you dont' pay its extortion or follow its rules, some of which are fair enough, but other are downright silly or only exist to serve the interests of some group that paid for it. Have you seen how many of the same small group of people are CEOs or sit on corportate boards of hte fortune 500 companies? The revolving door between politically appointed burecracy heads and the industries they regulate (e.g. FDA/USDA and Monsanto, SEC/Treasury/theFed and [insert big bank here], etc). On one hand you insult them for being a nation of slaves with an admittedly more oppressive government, but then turn around and attack them for not slavishly yeilding to american (or rather republican & Democrat establishment foreign policy) "interests." Yes, they are our competitor, whether they are communist or not or a dictatorship or not, they are our competitors. I just can't blame them for trying to assert their interests anymore than I can blame a wolf for trying to eat one of my sheep. How can you think that they should just give up their only year round warm water port because John Kerry and Hillery clinton say so? Maybe it is in our interest, at a certain cost, maybe the world would be better for it, but I don't understand the butthurt at them asserting their own interests. I also don't understand how you assume that any and all current or past US foreignly policy is necessarily in the american people's interest. Was it really a good idea to destabilize Egypt, Libia, Syria? No I am not a paul bot who thinks we should have no foreign bases or treaties and that doing so will make others not wish us harm, but the deficit spending, debt service, high gov spending/GDP, out of control health and drug costs (per lobbying) and unstopped immigration are the real threats to anglo american civilization. PS: it is true that our state dept was infested w/ USSR agents, FWIW. Of course, these people were americans who wer etrue belivers thanks to the Frankfurt school etc. After a rant like that, you totally must be someone with an excellent education in international relations and US-Russian diplomacy since 1945. Especially considering you don't know how to spell proxy, bureaucracy, and foreign policy, it's not surprises that you miss the small finesses. Such as Obama being in charge of the United States doesn't suddenly turn historic US adversaries into allies, regardless of the propaganda efforts about how badass their tyrannical ruler is. No nation has friends, at best you have alliances. We have none with Russia because Russia's long range interests and ours don't mesh... Wait a sec, I'm debating global politics with someone who thinks the world revolves around "deficit spending, debt service, high gov spending/GDP, out of control health and drug costs (per lobbying) and unstopped immigration are the real threats to anglo american civilization." Yeah, you're not a Paul-bot... 
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Ukraine wasn't the only place that suffered. The entire USSR went through a famine because of the communist. Quoted:
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Holodomor deniers Ukraine wasn't the only place that suffered. The entire USSR went through a famine because of the communist. In Ukraine, the effects were worsened because the devastation was done deliberately. |
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In Ukraine, the effects were worsened because the devastation was done deliberately. Quoted:
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Holodomor deniers Ukraine wasn't the only place that suffered. The entire USSR went through a famine because of the communist. In Ukraine, the effects were worsened because the devastation was done deliberately. But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin |
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Jesus CWG and the other one, you must be older than me to have such a deep seated fear of russia. Are you of refusing to own or shoot an AK b/c it is a commie weapon?? I suppose I can hardly fault you for having this tendency, especially if you were a child in the 60s and served during the cold war and lost buddies in proxie conflicts I guess. What I find most odd is how you talk about our civilization as if we are not ruled by oligarchs. We have a government that is bought and paid for by lobbyists, everyone knows it. It has always been this way, not just since Clinton, or FDR or Lincoln or whenever you might propose the imaginary golden era ended. It comes and throws you in a cage if you dont' pay its extortion or follow its rules, some of which are fair enough, but other are downright silly or only exist to serve the interests of some group that paid for it. Have you seen how many of the same small group of people are CEOs or sit on corportate boards of hte fortune 500 companies? The revolving door between politically appointed burecracy heads and the industries they regulate (e.g. FDA/USDA and Monsanto, SEC/Treasury/theFed and [insert big bank here], etc). On one hand you insult them for being a nation of slaves with an admittedly more oppressive government, but then turn around and attack them for not slavishly yeilding to american (or rather republican & Democrat establishment foreign policy) "interests." Yes, they are our competitor, whether they are communist or not or a dictatorship or not, they are our competitors. I just can't blame them for trying to assert their interests anymore than I can blame a wolf for trying to eat one of my sheep. How can you think that they should just give up their only year round warm water port because John Kerry and Hillery clinton say so? Maybe it is in our interest, at a certain cost, maybe the world would be better for it, but I don't understand the butthurt at them asserting their own interests. I also don't understand how you assume that any and all current or past US foreignly policy is necessarily in the american people's interest. Was it really a good idea to destabilize Egypt, Libia, Syria? No I am not a paul bot who thinks we should have no foreign bases or treaties and that doing so will make others not wish us harm, but the deficit spending, debt service, high gov spending/GDP, out of control health and drug costs (per lobbying) and unstopped immigration are the real threats to anglo american civilization. PS: it is true that our state dept was infested w/ USSR agents, FWIW. Of course, these people were americans who wer etrue belivers thanks to the Frankfurt school etc. Do you know how I know you've been reading Ruspropaganda? |
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Quoted: But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Holodomor deniers Ukraine wasn't the only place that suffered. The entire USSR went through a famine because of the communist. In Ukraine, the effects were worsened because the devastation was done deliberately. But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin Bah. I shall have to make a Ukraine thread sometime. Everyone here parroting Goebbels propaganda in the 2010s is really impressive, but it's really the MSM's fault. Try reading some peer-reviewed historic publications, even Western would do: http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger,%20'The%201932%20Harvest%20and%20the%20Famine%20of%201933,%20SR%2091.pdf Also look up "korenization", okay? Soviets MADE modern Ukrainians. Pictured: Number of publications yearly in Ukrainian (black) and Russian (red), within Ukrainian SSR, in thousands. Don't forget that those books were intended to teach people to read. In Ukrainian. Even people who didn't speak Ukrainian before.  Let's just say history is a lot more complex than CNN would like you to think... |
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Do you know how I know you've been reading Ruspropaganda? Quoted:
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Jesus CWG and the other one, you must be older than me to have such a deep seated fear of russia. Are you of refusing to own or shoot an AK b/c it is a commie weapon?? I suppose I can hardly fault you for having this tendency, especially if you were a child in the 60s and served during the cold war and lost buddies in proxie conflicts I guess. What I find most odd is how you talk about our civilization as if we are not ruled by oligarchs. We have a government that is bought and paid for by lobbyists, everyone knows it. It has always been this way, not just since Clinton, or FDR or Lincoln or whenever you might propose the imaginary golden era ended. It comes and throws you in a cage if you dont' pay its extortion or follow its rules, some of which are fair enough, but other are downright silly or only exist to serve the interests of some group that paid for it. Have you seen how many of the same small group of people are CEOs or sit on corportate boards of hte fortune 500 companies? The revolving door between politically appointed burecracy heads and the industries they regulate (e.g. FDA/USDA and Monsanto, SEC/Treasury/theFed and [insert big bank here], etc). On one hand you insult them for being a nation of slaves with an admittedly more oppressive government, but then turn around and attack them for not slavishly yeilding to american (or rather republican & Democrat establishment foreign policy) "interests." Yes, they are our competitor, whether they are communist or not or a dictatorship or not, they are our competitors. I just can't blame them for trying to assert their interests anymore than I can blame a wolf for trying to eat one of my sheep. How can you think that they should just give up their only year round warm water port because John Kerry and Hillery clinton say so? Maybe it is in our interest, at a certain cost, maybe the world would be better for it, but I don't understand the butthurt at them asserting their own interests. I also don't understand how you assume that any and all current or past US foreignly policy is necessarily in the american people's interest. Was it really a good idea to destabilize Egypt, Libia, Syria? No I am not a paul bot who thinks we should have no foreign bases or treaties and that doing so will make others not wish us harm, but the deficit spending, debt service, high gov spending/GDP, out of control health and drug costs (per lobbying) and unstopped immigration are the real threats to anglo american civilization. PS: it is true that our state dept was infested w/ USSR agents, FWIW. Of course, these people were americans who wer etrue belivers thanks to the Frankfurt school etc. Do you know how I know you've been reading Ruspropaganda? His moustache smells like putins jockstrap? Eta, also lol at red |
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Bah. I shall have to make a Ukraine thread sometime. Everyone here parroting Goebbels propaganda in the 2010s is really impressive, but it's really the MSM's fault. Try reading some peer-reviewed historic publications, even Western would do: http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger,%20'The%201932%20Harvest%20and%20the%20Famine%20of%201933,%20SR%2091.pdf Also look up "korenization", okay? Soviets MADE modern Ukrainians. Pictured: Number of publications yearly in Ukrainian (black) and Russian (red), within Ukrainian SSR, in thousands. Don't forget that those books were intended to teach people to read. In Ukrainian. Even people who didn't speak Ukrainian before. http://vybor.ua/uploadfiles/ckfinder/user48/images/%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BA%281%29.jpg Let's just say history is a lot more complex than CNN would like you to think... Quoted:
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Holodomor deniers Ukraine wasn't the only place that suffered. The entire USSR went through a famine because of the communist. In Ukraine, the effects were worsened because the devastation was done deliberately. But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin Bah. I shall have to make a Ukraine thread sometime. Everyone here parroting Goebbels propaganda in the 2010s is really impressive, but it's really the MSM's fault. Try reading some peer-reviewed historic publications, even Western would do: http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger,%20'The%201932%20Harvest%20and%20the%20Famine%20of%201933,%20SR%2091.pdf Also look up "korenization", okay? Soviets MADE modern Ukrainians. Pictured: Number of publications yearly in Ukrainian (black) and Russian (red), within Ukrainian SSR, in thousands. Don't forget that those books were intended to teach people to read. In Ukrainian. Even people who didn't speak Ukrainian before. http://vybor.ua/uploadfiles/ckfinder/user48/images/%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BA%281%29.jpg Let's just say history is a lot more complex than CNN would like you to think... Your paper is all fucked up and full of excuses for disastrous consequences of collectivism. In a normal functional nation a grain shortage doesn't result in millions of deportations, murders and starvation. Stalin and his communist party are 100% to blame. But nope you double down on stupid. Russia is cursed by geography and backwardness. why do you think Putin made WTO and G8 membership a priority for years? He understands the shortcomings of Russia, you don't. |
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Quoted: Your paper is all fucked up and full of excuses for disastrous consequences of collectivism. In a normal functional nation a grain shortage doesn't result in millions of deportations, murders and starvation. Stalin and his communist party are 100% to blame. But nope you double down on stupid. Russia is cursed by geography and backwardness. why do you think Putin made WTO and G8 membership a priority for years? He understands the shortcomings of Russia, you don't. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In Ukraine, the effects were worsened because the devastation was done deliberately. But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin Bah. I shall have to make a Ukraine thread sometime. Everyone here parroting Goebbels propaganda in the 2010s is really impressive, but it's really the MSM's fault. Try reading some peer-reviewed historic publications, even Western would do: http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger,%20'The%201932%20Harvest%20and%20the%20Famine%20of%201933,%20SR%2091.pdf Also look up "korenization", okay? Soviets MADE modern Ukrainians. Pictured: Number of publications yearly in Ukrainian (black) and Russian (red), within Ukrainian SSR, in thousands. Don't forget that those books were intended to teach people to read. In Ukrainian. Even people who didn't speak Ukrainian before. http://vybor.ua/uploadfiles/ckfinder/user48/images/%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BA%281%29.jpg Let's just say history is a lot more complex than CNN would like you to think... Your paper is all fucked up and full of excuses for disastrous consequences of collectivism. In a normal functional nation a grain shortage doesn't result in millions of deportations, murders and starvation. Stalin and his communist party are 100% to blame. But nope you double down on stupid. Russia is cursed by geography and backwardness. why do you think Putin made WTO and G8 membership a priority for years? He understands the shortcomings of Russia, you don't. Ehh... What "millions of deportations and murders"? Are we still talking about the famine of 1933? And what does WTO and G8 have to do with Soviet policy in 1920s and 1930s? Are you just listing random stuff?  |
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Ehh... What "millions of deportations and murders"? Are we still talking about the famine of 1933? And what does WTO and G8 have to do with Soviet policy in 1920s and 1930s? Are you just listing random stuff?
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In Ukraine, the effects were worsened because the devastation was done deliberately. But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin Bah. I shall have to make a Ukraine thread sometime. Everyone here parroting Goebbels propaganda in the 2010s is really impressive, but it's really the MSM's fault. Try reading some peer-reviewed historic publications, even Western would do: http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger,%20'The%201932%20Harvest%20and%20the%20Famine%20of%201933,%20SR%2091.pdf Also look up "korenization", okay? Soviets MADE modern Ukrainians. Pictured: Number of publications yearly in Ukrainian (black) and Russian (red), within Ukrainian SSR, in thousands. Don't forget that those books were intended to teach people to read. In Ukrainian. Even people who didn't speak Ukrainian before. http://vybor.ua/uploadfiles/ckfinder/user48/images/%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BA%281%29.jpg Let's just say history is a lot more complex than CNN would like you to think... Your paper is all fucked up and full of excuses for disastrous consequences of collectivism. In a normal functional nation a grain shortage doesn't result in millions of deportations, murders and starvation. Stalin and his communist party are 100% to blame. But nope you double down on stupid. Russia is cursed by geography and backwardness. why do you think Putin made WTO and G8 membership a priority for years? He understands the shortcomings of Russia, you don't. Ehh... What "millions of deportations and murders"? Are we still talking about the famine of 1933? And what does WTO and G8 have to do with Soviet policy in 1920s and 1930s? Are you just listing random stuff?
He's asserting that Russia is a hot steaming pile of shit and that only recently is it even coming into its own as an economic power. And meanwhile you're regurgitating all the normal holodomor denial rants to white wash your country's involvement in the deaths of millions of people through incompetence and outright murder. The motives behind your alternative viewpoints are becoming clearer everyday.
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Bah. I shall have to make a Ukraine thread sometime. Everyone here parroting Goebbels propaganda in the 2010s is really impressive, but it's really the MSM's fault. Try reading some peer-reviewed historic publications, even Western would do: http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger,%20'The%201932%20Harvest%20and%20the%20Famine%20of%201933,%20SR%2091.pdf Also look up "korenization", okay? Soviets MADE modern Ukrainians. Pictured: Number of publications yearly in Ukrainian (black) and Russian (red), within Ukrainian SSR, in thousands. Don't forget that those books were intended to teach people to read. In Ukrainian. Even people who didn't speak Ukrainian before. http://vybor.ua/uploadfiles/ckfinder/user48/images/%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BA%281%29.jpg Let's just say history is a lot more complex than CNN would like you to think... Quoted:
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Holodomor deniers Ukraine wasn't the only place that suffered. The entire USSR went through a famine because of the communist. In Ukraine, the effects were worsened because the devastation was done deliberately. But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin Bah. I shall have to make a Ukraine thread sometime. Everyone here parroting Goebbels propaganda in the 2010s is really impressive, but it's really the MSM's fault. Try reading some peer-reviewed historic publications, even Western would do: http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger,%20'The%201932%20Harvest%20and%20the%20Famine%20of%201933,%20SR%2091.pdf Also look up "korenization", okay? Soviets MADE modern Ukrainians. Pictured: Number of publications yearly in Ukrainian (black) and Russian (red), within Ukrainian SSR, in thousands. Don't forget that those books were intended to teach people to read. In Ukrainian. Even people who didn't speak Ukrainian before. http://vybor.ua/uploadfiles/ckfinder/user48/images/%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BA%281%29.jpg Let's just say history is a lot more complex than CNN would like you to think... There is nothing more tired and pathetic than the Ukrainians/Ukraine are made up narrative. 
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Quoted: There is nothing more tired and pathetic than the Ukrainians/Ukraine are made up narrative. Quoted: Quoted: Bah. I shall have to make a Ukraine thread sometime. Everyone here parroting Goebbels propaganda in the 2010s is really impressive, but it's really the MSM's fault. Try reading some peer-reviewed historic publications, even Western would do: http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger,%20'The%201932%20Harvest%20and%20the%20Famine%20of%201933,%20SR%2091.pdf Also look up "korenization", okay? Soviets MADE modern Ukrainians. Pictured: Number of publications yearly in Ukrainian (black) and Russian (red), within Ukrainian SSR, in thousands. Don't forget that those books were intended to teach people to read. In Ukrainian. Even people who didn't speak Ukrainian before. http://vybor.ua/uploadfiles/ckfinder/user48/images/%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BA%281%29.jpg Let's just say history is a lot more complex than CNN would like you to think... There is nothing more tired and pathetic than the Ukrainians/Ukraine are made up narrative. News flash: EVERY modern nation is made. Nations are ideologies, essentially. Pakistanis or Israelis were made up after Ukrainians, it doesn't make the nations any less real, and it's dumb to deny that. Just like it's dumb to deny that every nation was engineered (often self-engineered), with various degrees of state actor involvement. If you want more detail, feel free to check out my position: What is 'Ukrainian nation', and what are its future options. |
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We can chat about Ukraine on the side (I'll be mostly just giving links to avoid posting walls of text on every complex subject), but instead of wasting too much time on it, I'll try to post stuff that is more relevant to US. Care to send me some of those links? |
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Quoted: Care to send me some of those links? Quoted: Quoted: We can chat about Ukraine on the side (I'll be mostly just giving links to avoid posting walls of text on every complex subject), but instead of wasting too much time on it, I'll try to post stuff that is more relevant to US. Care to send me some of those links? Unless you have specific questions, I suggest just browsing my liveleak page, preferably starting from the oldest posts. Try to find analytical articles you're interested in, day-to-day news impart essentially zero understanding of the situation, which is why I stopped doing them much. I reference myself exclusively because experience has taught me both sides are full of crap. To be honest, now I know some of my older stuff was not on point, but it's still closer to real situation than RT or Reuters. http://www.liveleak.com/c/Tatzhit#item_page=17 Also, Montyan is an especially good primer because she thinks everyone is full of crap, and that prepares you to look for the real greed&filth below the noble facades that everyone is putting on. Ukrainian politician Tatiana Montyan: "All sides of the conflict suck" (this lady hates both Putin and the incompetents new Ukrainian government, so her viewpoint of the conflict is one of most balanced... even if she did try to ban Russian language schools in Kiev) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtarbgbfHc http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d03_1437695429 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=15f_1438999023 |
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Do you know how I know you've been reading Ruspropaganda? Quoted:
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Jesus CWG and the other one, you must be older than me to have such a deep seated fear of russia. Are you of refusing to own or shoot an AK b/c it is a commie weapon?? I suppose I can hardly fault you for having this tendency, especially if you were a child in the 60s and served during the cold war and lost buddies in proxie conflicts I guess. What I find most odd is how you talk about our civilization as if we are not ruled by oligarchs. We have a government that is bought and paid for by lobbyists, everyone knows it. It has always been this way, not just since Clinton, or FDR or Lincoln or whenever you might propose the imaginary golden era ended. It comes and throws you in a cage if you dont' pay its extortion or follow its rules, some of which are fair enough, but other are downright silly or only exist to serve the interests of some group that paid for it. Have you seen how many of the same small group of people are CEOs or sit on corportate boards of hte fortune 500 companies? The revolving door between politically appointed burecracy heads and the industries they regulate (e.g. FDA/USDA and Monsanto, SEC/Treasury/theFed and [insert big bank here], etc). On one hand you insult them for being a nation of slaves with an admittedly more oppressive government, but then turn around and attack them for not slavishly yeilding to american (or rather republican & Democrat establishment foreign policy) "interests." Yes, they are our competitor, whether they are communist or not or a dictatorship or not, they are our competitors. I just can't blame them for trying to assert their interests anymore than I can blame a wolf for trying to eat one of my sheep. How can you think that they should just give up their only year round warm water port because John Kerry and Hillery clinton say so? Maybe it is in our interest, at a certain cost, maybe the world would be better for it, but I don't understand the butthurt at them asserting their own interests. I also don't understand how you assume that any and all current or past US foreignly policy is necessarily in the american people's interest. Was it really a good idea to destabilize Egypt, Libia, Syria? No I am not a paul bot who thinks we should have no foreign bases or treaties and that doing so will make others not wish us harm, but the deficit spending, debt service, high gov spending/GDP, out of control health and drug costs (per lobbying) and unstopped immigration are the real threats to anglo american civilization. PS: it is true that our state dept was infested w/ USSR agents, FWIW. Of course, these people were americans who wer etrue belivers thanks to the Frankfurt school etc. Do you know how I know you've been reading Ruspropaganda? They have found it works just as well on the derpy segment of the American "right" as it did on the left. lol |
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I was reading a book that very effectively described the generational effects of being essentially worth nothing as a human being, with life having only temporary value if given to or expended by the party. "It was a long time ago and it never happened anyways" I had to put it down a few times. Pretty sad and dark stuff. Russians don't care anymore, which is perfect for their leaders. Quoted:
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I am coming to believe Russian as a culture are masochists, they seem only to be happy with tyrants in charge, stepping on their necks. I was reading a book that very effectively described the generational effects of being essentially worth nothing as a human being, with life having only temporary value if given to or expended by the party. "It was a long time ago and it never happened anyways" I had to put it down a few times. Pretty sad and dark stuff. Russians don't care anymore, which is perfect for their leaders. What book- interested. |
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But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin Quoted:
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Holodomor deniers Ukraine wasn't the only place that suffered. The entire USSR went through a famine because of the communist. In Ukraine, the effects were worsened because the devastation was done deliberately. But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin Yeah. Because Stalin hated Ukrainians. it was pretty deliberate. People who left to escape the famine were brought back to die in it. They took everything from them, all of their food to make it through the year. There were many purges by Stalin. Of numerous, very specifically targeted minorities. Besides his very arbitrary killings of huge numbers of citizens to meet quotas. he terrorized the populace to keep control. |
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What book- interested. Quoted:
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I am coming to believe Russian as a culture are masochists, they seem only to be happy with tyrants in charge, stepping on their necks. I was reading a book that very effectively described the generational effects of being essentially worth nothing as a human being, with life having only temporary value if given to or expended by the party. "It was a long time ago and it never happened anyways" I had to put it down a few times. Pretty sad and dark stuff. Russians don't care anymore, which is perfect for their leaders. What book- interested. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0300192371?keywords=it%20was%20a%20long%20time%20ago%20and%20it%20never%20happened%20anyway&qid=1454566907&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1 |
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But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin Quoted:
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Holodomor deniers Ukraine wasn't the only place that suffered. The entire USSR went through a famine because of the communist. In Ukraine, the effects were worsened because the devastation was done deliberately. But it wasn't just because they were Ukrainian and Russia hated them.. It was because of Stalin ....right........
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[Copied from from "Chechen President explains how his men infiltrated ISIS" thread, because a lot of the links below deal with practical aspects of a civil war, and I intend to dump such content here] Personally, I enjoy stories [about down-to-earth, practical aspects of civil wars] - that's sort of how I got into the whole "history of post-Soviet civil wars" thing, about a decade ago. It is quite easy to find memoirs of combatants and talk to them online. I was motivated enough to browse through my old stuff and pick out the stories that I think are cool. Now, all of it is Ukraine, and is quite biased - some pieces, because they're pretty propaganda movies, some, because a soldier in a civil war won't be impartial when discussing his experiences (imagine a Confederate soldier's opinion of the "Yankee oppressors", for example). Still, I think a lot of them are very cool and worth reading. There are also some stories already linked in my other threads, I didn't re-link those because the interested parties have probably seen them already. I'll try to group this into broad categories: PRACTICAL ASPECTS OF UNEXPECTED CIVIL WAR 1. "Practical advice to government conscripts, and other thoughts" 2. "CTF IRL" - Epic battles for Shirokino explained in simple terms by a mortarman (how a lot of modern warfare is more PR than anything) 3. Lieutenant's daily nightmare (discusses the uselessness of paperwork in a guerrilla war) 4. Kiev officer on Debalcevo: HQ incompetence and self-organized breakout (not like the militia was much better, as described here: "Debaltsevo operation: inside view” or "System-wide errors in reorganizing the NAF”) DEATH AND GLOOM (e.g. a story "how we took down the body of an enemy soldier thrown onto high-voltage powerlines by a blastwave") 1. Russian journalist helps widow from L’vov look for her husband (it's really three stories about body recovery in one post, includes the one mentioned above) 2. Confessions of a combatant: God will not forgive anyone here (dealing with refugees) 3. Old Woman at a War (a sad story of a woman crippled while helping others, with a relatively happy end) Part 1: Women and War Part 2: A happy ending to one Donbass story 4. "Run away! Run while you still can!” (talks about the "dirty side" of exchanging KIA and POW, also the woman talks about her experience as a POW) Two more POW stories that are not as interesting IMO, bit still worth reading: Maria Koleda, a Russian journalist who spent five months in Kiev government prison "Russian mercenary" forced to lie on camera by SBU NEWS FRONT MOVIES These are very well-made movies with militia combatants and civilians in Donbass. Obviously they are far from unbiased, but the quality is excellent and there is a lot of cool footage "This is Sparta, man!" [NewsFront documentary] [ENG Subs] [DE Subs] The Faces of the Resistance: With Your Own Eyes Donbass In the Line of Fire #9 - "Hello from Gorlovka" ENG Voiceover PS. Also will be posted into "Equipment of militiamen" thread - to avoid creating new threads, I'll use that one to post things dealing with practical aspects of a civil war |
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Soo... haven't had time to do much translating lately, figured I'll show an old training video.
Now, training is only a part within a Donbass militia documentary which is, unsurprisingly, biased. If you're deathly afraid of "propaganda" and alternative narratives, well, don't look (and BTW, yes there are omissions/half-truths in their stories... but the CNN viewpoint is even worse). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NViYHbJpSzA One interesting part I've seen there is that they basically fire AT the recruits during training (starts at 8:12 or so, bullet impacts less than a foot away, also a bunch of it from 18:30 mark to the end), as a way of getting accustomed to being under fire. Another WTF moment was guys chucking grenades that explode maybe 30 feet from them (at 6:40, I assume WWII-type HEAT AT grenades, militia probably has some). Tank riding would probably be a no-no for US army, especially at high speeds (18:50 or so), but it's pretty standard practice for post-Soviet space. [re-checked video it at 2x speed] Also serious ND at 22:46 
IIRC this is "Sparta" unit with "Somalia" tanks, those are the two remaining units still led by "celebrity" leaders, which means they are more militia-like than the rest of DPR force (which by now, has implemented a lot of army regs and other BS). Also this is from nearly a year ago, not sure if SOPs changed since then. === EDIT: Timeline Beginning: Donetsk training area, March 2015 3:00 Slavyansk, Semenovka, May 2014 3:44 Donetsk international airport, Nov-Dec 2015 5:09 Motorola himself 7:02 Philosopher Speech “It's very important that people from every Russian city come here. At least one from each city. The main troubles... They're gonna start in a year or two. All of this won't just blow over. … There will be a [civil?] war, for sure. And if there are <trained] people, even 1-2 per area, that would make things a lot easier.” 8:02 Training: In NovoRussia, target shoot you! 10:38 We got wounded! … The shell just.. blew up 12:23 152mm, 125mm, 120mm - just light the fuse and go 14:52 "Belyi" + Daria = love 18:25 Racing tanks, live fire training 21:58 Philosophy and gunfire |
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"Nationalists" and "Republicans" in the Ukrainian "civil war," huh? That's a turn of cock-gobbling Putin propaganda I hadn't seen before, trying to associate butt-fucking Russia's cowardly little bitch insurgency with the anti-Fascist side in Spain.
Russia is a leper. The Ukes ought to just accept that the Donbass is infected and do their best to contain the disease, work on rebuilding the comparatively healthy part of their country and wait until the Russian thugocracy collapses under the weight of their thieving low-life leadership. Again. |
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"Nationalists" and "Republicans" in the Ukrainian "civil war," huh? That's a turn of cock-gobbling Putin propaganda I hadn't seen before, trying to associate butt-fucking Russia's cowardly little bitch insurgency with the anti-Fascist side in Spain. Russia is a leper. The Ukes ought to just accept that the Donbass is infected and do their best to contain the disease, work on rebuilding the comparatively healthy part of their country and wait until the Russian thugocracy collapses under the weight of their thieving low-life leadership. Again. It will create another black hole of lawlessness and Russian impunity like Transnistria. Not a viable long term option. |
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It will create another black hole of lawlessness and Russian impunity like Transnistria. Not a viable long term option. Quoted:
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"Nationalists" and "Republicans" in the Ukrainian "civil war," huh? That's a turn of cock-gobbling Putin propaganda I hadn't seen before, trying to associate butt-fucking Russia's cowardly little bitch insurgency with the anti-Fascist side in Spain. Russia is a leper. The Ukes ought to just accept that the Donbass is infected and do their best to contain the disease, work on rebuilding the comparatively healthy part of their country and wait until the Russian thugocracy collapses under the weight of their thieving low-life leadership. Again. It will create another black hole of lawlessness and Russian impunity like Transnistria. Not a viable long term option. Not sure about other options at this point. The Ukrainians are going to need at least a generation to get their house in order, wash the Soviet stink off themselves. I mean, putting Russian mercenaries in body bags certainly wouldn't hurt and I'd like to see a Jav in every Ukrainian platoon, but I don't see them retaking the area anytime soon and I don't think the Russians have enough national self-esteem to negotiate it back to them. They need to build a wall. |
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I think the people talking of racial inferiority in this thread are just Putin's trolls looking to make all Ukrainians and Americans look like racists and fools.
Don't believe it, most Ukrainians are wonderful people. I'm sure you all know average Americans aren't this bigoted, either.
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I grew up hating the Russians, cut my teeth on being ready to fight against them, and will never change my views on how much I cannot fucking stand the cocksuckers. Fuck mother Russia, and those that support the fat bitch. I cannot stand Putin, but he's still more of a man than 0bama, and that's a bitter pill to swallow. The Ukraine should have never trusted us to stand by them, and the entire body of U.S. politicians are traitors to our allies. |
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I grew up hating the Russians, cut my teeth on being ready to fight against them, and will never change my views on how much I cannot fucking stand the cocksuckers. Fuck mother Russia, and those that support the fat bitch. I cannot stand Putin, but he's still more of a man than 0bama, and that's a bitter pill to swallow. The Ukraine should have never trusted us to stand by them, and the entire body of U.S. politicians are traitors to our allies. Since when ? |
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Since when ? Quoted:
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I grew up hating the Russians, cut my teeth on being ready to fight against them, and will never change my views on how much I cannot fucking stand the cocksuckers. Fuck mother Russia, and those that support the fat bitch. I cannot stand Putin, but he's still more of a man than 0bama, and that's a bitter pill to swallow. The Ukraine should have never trusted us to stand by them, and the entire body of U.S. politicians are traitors to our allies. Since when ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances |
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I grew up hating the Russians, cut my teeth on being ready to fight against them, and will never change my views on how much I cannot fucking stand the cocksuckers. Fuck mother Russia, and those that support the fat bitch. I cannot stand Putin, but he's still more of a man than 0bama, and that's a bitter pill to swallow. The Ukraine should have never trusted us to stand by them, and the entire body of U.S. politicians are traitors to our allies. Since when ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances It doesn't say what you think it says |
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It doesn't say what you think it says Quoted:
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I grew up hating the Russians, cut my teeth on being ready to fight against them, and will never change my views on how much I cannot fucking stand the cocksuckers. Fuck mother Russia, and those that support the fat bitch. I cannot stand Putin, but he's still more of a man than 0bama, and that's a bitter pill to swallow. The Ukraine should have never trusted us to stand by them, and the entire body of U.S. politicians are traitors to our allies. Since when ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances It doesn't say what you think it says Yeah, ok. |
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You can't come into a website visited by the strategic enemies of Russia and not expect to read anti Russian comments. Feel free to express your views, but just like I'd get challenged on a pro-Russian gun forum, you're in enemy territory. Most people here don't believe any of that bullshit about Ukraine Nazis, they believe the videos of Russian Hinds and tanks invading Ukraine after the people tossed out the pro Putin govt. They believe picture footage of Russian army troops mascarading as "volunteers" with no rank insignia while Putin tells the world no Russians have invaded Ukraine. he is right and he is wrong. The Ukrainians either fought for stalin, for for hitler, or fought against both. They really were in a shitty place as far as WWII was concerned. You're basically fucked no matter which side you choose. The Black and Red badged guys, as I understand it, fought against both Stalin and the Germans. Other groups either fought with the Russians or the Germans. (I may have the color of the badge wrong - though I have one in my possession), but there really were three fronts as far as the Ukraine was concerned. And the Russians had no problem killing 6 million Ukrainians. |
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Russians are in Syrian and Ukraine, so yeah, they are behind this. Remember when Russian invaded Ukraine? Because the rest of the world does. Remember when Putin propped up Assad in Syria? The rest of the world does. Russia is balls deep in quite a few conflicts and acting against the interests of the US, whether or not Obama or anyone else is prez. So fuck Russia and fuck Putin. Also, Khrushchev all over Stalin too, but he was till a dictator, as were his successors, as is Putin now. Dictators dictate, stooges stooge. Also, Russia stacked the deck in the Crimea and Ukraine for many years, quietly displacing Ukrainians and moving in Russians. (not unlike what Mexico is doing in the U.S.) Get the right number of "citizens" in place, and then the Ukrainians are the bad guys. |
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I grew up hating the Russians, cut my teeth on being ready to fight against them, and will never change my views on how much I cannot fucking stand the cocksuckers. Fuck mother Russia, and those that support the fat bitch. I cannot stand Putin, but he's still more of a man than 0bama, and that's a bitter pill to swallow. The Ukraine should have never trusted us to stand by them, and the entire body of U.S. politicians are traitors to our allies. Since when ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances It doesn't say what you think it says Yeah, ok. He thinks it says what Putin thinks it says. Shocking. |
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For anyone looking for a recent read on the folks with whom we're dealing here, this is pretty good:
Putin Country |
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I grew up hating the Russians, cut my teeth on being ready to fight against them, and will never change my views on how much I cannot fucking stand the cocksuckers. Fuck mother Russia, and those that support the fat bitch. I cannot stand Putin, but he's still more of a man than 0bama, and that's a bitter pill to swallow. The Ukraine should have never trusted us to stand by them, and the entire body of U.S. politicians are traitors to our allies. Since when ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances It doesn't say what you think it says Yeah, ok. its not a treaty. its a memo. Ukraine isn't part of NATO either. There is a reason the Bush Admin or Clinton didn't try to make it a treaty...because no one outside of GD would risk war over Ukraine. |