When? Exactly when did that become a valid name to bestow upon your child?

Police charged Sonseeaharay Lyn Fells, 36, with manufacturing a controlled substance. She was being held in the DeSoto County Jail in Hernando under a $100,000 bond.

Quoted: This sort of thing wouldn't happen if all participants in "wrong house" raids were given the sentence fixed by law for Burglary with an Assault while Armed with a Firearm - generally in the neighborhood of 30 years to life. Why should any error be tolerated?

They could also get 5 years Fed time for using a firearm in the comission of a crime.  The Fed is starting to use that one on their bad apples.

Quoted: Quoted: They should have brought whoever made the statement that got them the warrant to identify the correct house. The warrant should have included a physical description of the house "single story ranch style home. white stucco with burgundy tile roof and a singe white front door facing east." Plus the narcotics officer who previously bought drugs there should have been the team leader. Thats how we do it.  i guess thats why we havent done a wrong house raid.

I agree here... how the hell do you "hit the wrong house"??

I mean what kind of decision is "so we hit the larger house" when confronted with two on the same lot?  

And someone from the area, please correct me here IF I am wrong...but two houses on the same lot...still have two different addresses right?

Was the warrant for a zoning "lot" or for an "address"?

I am so tired of seeing these kind of reports.... we got one a few months back of them hitting the wrong HALF of a duplex....and people here defending the attack on the wrong guy by saying shit like "that's what he gets for living in the area" or "not knowing who's living in the other half of the house".

I suppose the old folks deserve it too for living on the same lot as the meth-heads.

No Expert

Quoted: ..... Normally I come down on this stuff, but the address in this case is the problem, and it wasn't "wrong".  I've said it before, the counties or whatever the local jurisdiction happens to be are partly at fault.  One can have a 33rd st., 33rd. place, 33rd ave., 33rd lane, 33rd court and 33rd way, and these are in one county.  HArd to keep track though one would expect it to be done right.  But two houses, ostensibly with the same address, something needs to be done, as in separate numbers.  That's a "mapping jurisdiction" issue that should be fixed.  I'll not blame the police on this one, based on information available at this point,.......

Do I understand you correctly? Are you saying it's NOT the cops fault they busted into the wrong house? Are you saying they had no obligation to make sure they didn't go to the wrong house? Are you saying the whole reason the cops didn't identify the correct house is because the county didn't assign the address correctly?

Please tell me you're not serious.

Quoted: ..... Normally I come down on this stuff, but the address in this case is the problem, and it wasn't "wrong".  I've said it before, the counties or whatever the local jurisdiction happens to be are partly at fault.  One can have a 33rd st., 33rd. place, 33rd ave., 33rd lane, 33rd court and 33rd way, and these are in one county.  HArd to keep track though one would expect it to be done right.  But two houses, ostensibly with the same address, something needs to be done, as in separate numbers.  That's a "mapping jurisdiction" issue that should be fixed.  I'll not blame the police on this one, based on information available at this point,.......

Somebody associated with the police department MUST know exactly which house contained the meth lab, otherwise there wouldn't have been a raid in the first place. Where was this individual and why wasn't he contacted by the entry team PRIOR to kicking in the door AFTER the team APPARENTLY FLIPPED A FUCKING COIN to decide which house to raid???

Quoted: When? Exactly when did that become a valid name to bestow upon your child? Police charged Sonseeaharay Lyn Fells, 36, with manufacturing a controlled substance. She was being held in the DeSoto County Jail in Hernando under a $100,000 bond.

If you travel outside of circles of people with strictly anglicized names, you get used to a variety of names.

Perhaps it was a name she adopted herself upon reaching adulthood. You see that a lot more these days.

Quoted: You know, if they'd sent a guy out, even in a ghillie suit, with a set of binoculars during daylight they could've avoid this. "Well boss, I observed that the larger house is only occupied by two old folks, so it sure isn't that one." Intel and recon are your friends.

Urban neighborhood:
Kid to his father:
"Dad, the bush across the street is moving and has sprouted binoculars"

Yeah, some of you have all the answers on how you would do things perfectly every time.

Quoted: Quoted: You know, if they'd sent a guy out, even in a ghillie suit, with a set of binoculars during daylight they could've avoid this. "Well boss, I observed that the larger house is only occupied by two old folks, so it sure isn't that one." Intel and recon are your friends. Urban neighborhood: Kid to his father: "Dad, the bush across the street is moving and has sprouted binoculars" Yeah, some of you have all the answers on how you would do things perfectly every time.

if you can't do home raids correctly, don't do them at all

Quoted: Quoted: now what exactly gives officers the right to assault everyone at a warrant location anyway... When your in your 80s humans tend to get pretty frail,all it takes is a fall and bones will break,dislocate.

-BS

My Dad is 81 and still does extended hunting and fishing trips to remote parts of Alaska and Canada as well as restoration work on warbirds and chasing women in his spare time. He'd kick your ass!

Quoted: Or did the fuzz just fuck up another no knock and harm more innocent peasants all because they are too damn stupid to get the right house ? I hope those old folks sue the SHIT out of them.........oh, wait, that will just cost the tax payers not the MORONS who raided the wrong house. Anyone want to bet that NONE of the LEOs get in any REAL trouble ?

I would say Grandma and Grandpa earned themselves a first-class retirement to Florida, the kids got their houses paid off, and the grandkids got private school and university all paid for, all because the A Team wouldn't figure out which was the right house.

Idiots.

BTW this is the War on Drugs. What do you think the War on Guns is going to look like?

Quoted: -BS My Dad is 81 and still does extended hunting and fishing trips to remote parts of Alaska and Canada as well as restoration work on warbirds and chasing women in his spare time. He'd kick your ass!

I know many people who are in their 80s, and in general they are frail by comparison to younger people, or even themselves in their younger days.

Quoted: sooner or later, one of these botched raids is going to end up with headless cop, what then?

Justification for artillery and flamethrowers? Hey- as long as the officers get to go home safely at night to their families, it's OK, do whatever must be done to achieve that goal, citizen!

this kind of stupid shit has been going on for years

Quoted: Quoted: ..... Normally I come down on this stuff, but the address in this case is the problem, and it wasn't "wrong".  I've said it before, the counties or whatever the local jurisdiction happens to be are partly at fault.  One can have a 33rd st., 33rd. place, 33rd ave., 33rd lane, 33rd court and 33rd way, and these are in one county.  HArd to keep track though one would expect it to be done right.  But two houses, ostensibly with the same address, something needs to be done, as in separate numbers.  That's a "mapping jurisdiction" issue that should be fixed.  I'll not blame the police on this one, based on information available at this point,....... Do I understand you correctly? Are you saying it's NOT the cops fault they busted into the wrong house? Are you saying they had no obligation to make sure they didn't go to the wrong house? Are you saying the whole reason the cops didn't identify the correct house is because the county didn't assign the address correctly? Please tell me you're not serious.

Partially.  I would fault the police for not, as another poster said, having a description of the house (but, how about if they are similar?) or a person familiar with the "transactions" there along to point it out.  There are so many address variations that the counties need to do something about it: that's just a general case comment.  Would it have prevented a problem in this case?  I don';t know as I haven't seen a photo.  But, I have seen enough situations in which the houses were "A" and  "B" at the same address.  I have seen houses in which someone rents out a second house or former garage, legally or illegally.  In the latter case, there surely would not be a second address.  Indeed, it might be logical that two houses on the same lot might look similar - they don't have to, but it is true often enough.  Therefore, I can see how the police might target the wrong house in this type of case.  It would take a few errors, but it could happen.  Unlike the "house down the block" so they bust into your house.

That said, I question, and object to the large number of "no knock" raids.  In most cases they are unnecessary and, though this is conjecture on my part, just feeds a desire for "adventure" on the part of some bullies.  I can only see it in a hostage situation.  There have been numerous discussions on this board regarding alternatives, which range from grabbing the perps when they come out for groceries or "business trips" to trapping evidence in other ways (I have posted on this, giving examples on how some agencies dealt with it),  Where I seriously fault the police , particularly in this case, as my post says if one reads and quotes it in its entirety, is the level of violence used.  Clearly, if one gets close enough to physically injure someone, one can  see who or what that person is.  These cops just wanted to "bust heads."  To that extent, they don't deserve a break.  My main point in the first half of my post was that often the street layout contributes unnecessarily to the problem.  In sum, though, the police acted improperly.  I didn't really want to violate the CoC (which I personally believe somewhat artificial, though I cannot debate it as this board is someone else's property), but the truth is, were those my grandparents, within six months those cops would no longer be in any condition to serve.

Incompetant Police, nothing new.

Quoted: Quoted: When? Exactly when did that become a valid name to bestow upon your child? Police charged Sonseeaharay Lyn Fells, 36, with manufacturing a controlled substance. She was being held in the DeSoto County Jail in Hernando under a $100,000 bond. If you travel outside of circles of people with strictly anglicized names, you get used to a variety of names. Perhaps it was a name she adopted herself upon reaching adulthood. You see that a lot more these days.

Yep.  My wife has a patient with the first name of Misemeraldjaquinta or something like that.

Quoted: Quoted: Or did the fuzz just fuck up another no knock and harm more innocent peasants all because they are too damn stupid to get the right house ? I hope those old folks sue the SHIT out of them.........oh, wait, that will just cost the tax payers not the MORONS who raided the wrong house. Anyone want to bet that NONE of the LEOs get in any REAL trouble ? I would say Grandma and Grandpa earned themselves a first-class retirement to Florida, the kids got their houses paid off, and the grandkids got private school and university all paid for, all because the A Team wouldn't figure out which was the right house. Idiots. BTW this is the War on Drugs. What do you think the War on Guns is going to look like?

Or the trauma could make them dead in a week.

I've asked before, but how well marked are all of YOUR houses? Well marked houses would prevent 99 % of these incidents.

Quoted: Quoted: Or did the fuzz just fuck up another no knock and harm more innocent peasants all because they are too damn stupid to get the right house ? I hope those old folks sue the SHIT out of them.........oh, wait, that will just cost the tax payers not the MORONS who raided the wrong house. Anyone want to bet that NONE of the LEOs get in any REAL trouble ? I would say Grandma and Grandpa earned themselves a first-class retirement to Florida, the kids got their houses paid off, and the grandkids got private school and university all paid for, all because the A Team wouldn't figure out which was the right house. Idiots. BTW this is the War on Drugs. What do you think the War on Guns is going to look like?

Probably noisier.

Quoted: No doubt they were guilty of something else OR they associated with someone who was guilty of what the police alleged thereby deserving of the treatment they received.

Or maybe the goon squad was amped on adrenaline and slammed around a couple of defeseless old people because they had the wrong address.

I am not certain how an 80 year old woman deserves to have her shoulder dislocated by a young male who is supposed to be protecting little old ladies. Could you explain it to me?

I have never felt threatened by an octogenarian. I beleieve I could control every individual in their 80s on the planet with a few words, especially if I was armed.

Those cops are some worthless bastards.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They should have brought whoever made the statement that got them the warrant to identify the correct house. The warrant should have included a physical description of the house "single story ranch style home. white stucco with burgundy tile roof and a singe white front door facing east." Plus the narcotics officer who previously bought drugs there should have been the team leader. Thats how we do it.  i guess thats why we havent done a wrong house raid. We even did it that way. UC guy goes with the team.

Glad to hear at least some departments consider getting right the first time important.  

That second story made my blood boil.  Proper procedure is to raid every bulding shareing a common address until you find the right one?  

Quoted: Quoted: Putting on one blue sock and one black sock is a mistake. Having a half dozen heavily armed men burst into the wrong house is negilgence. Why were they doing a no-knock anyway? Can you flush an entire meth lab down the toilet? Ever meet a tweaker? I wouldn't want to give them time to get their bearings and bring their weapons into action either.

So they can't arrest them when they make the buys off them?  In every case, they buy/sell drugs to these guys, then WAIT for them to go home to raid the house.  How many brain cells do you need to just arrest the guy when he does the deal and then search an EMPTY house?  

I've asked before, but how well marked are all of YOUR houses? Well marked houses would prevent 99 % of these incidents.

yes, and it would be way too hard to drive by with a video camera and film the house prior to the raid, then show the house in the briefing.  Even the idiot insurgents in Iraq do this.  Its a sad day when cops in the US have to take classes from 3rd world uneducated insurgents on how to do proper mission planning and target analysis.

Quoted: I've asked before, but how well marked are all of YOUR houses? Well marked houses would prevent 99 % of these incidents.

While I agree properly marked addresses help with 911 calls.

It should not matter with a search warrant raid. The UC guy needs to be on the detail to point out the exact house. Doing otherwise is piss poor police procedure.

Do you have "apologist" tattooed across your forehead?

Quoted: I've asked before, but how well marked are all of YOUR houses? Well marked houses would prevent 99 % of these incidents.

Well at least they did not shoot them.  A couple of years ago a local department hit the wrong house and when the old man got his shotgun to respond to the break in shot and killed him.  He was just trying to protect his wife.  Ops, sorry doesn`t get it...................wrong house........try to mark it better. Bad information?  He is still dead and the officers have to live with what happened.

i understand that mistakes can be made, but i would think two houses on the same lot would be covered *extensively* prior to the raid. that seems like the kind of thing that you would want to focus on...

what type of police-bash was that? a little type 1 with some type three thrown in for flair?

it was the right address but the wrong house

what would have happened if the old guy grabbed his gun and started shooting? would the cops return fire, killing the innocent that was at "the right address but... wrong house"???

the raid took place around 4:30 am, waking the homeowners from sleep, and if that happened to most of the Arfcommers here, there would be some lead thrown.

The average joe can go online and look up tax records and find out who any house belongs to. I understand that you have renters and the homeowner doesnt always live there. I just think if your going to go kick in someones door you damn well better have the right house.

Do these cops have access to the internet?

Couldn't they hit Google Earth for a satellite photo as raid preparation, or get copies of aerial photos from the township for use in such instances? That would have shown two residences.

I must say that I view this as negligence, and a poor call by the leaders on the ground. I think that they were so wound up and ready to kick in a door that they went forward in spite of better judgement.

Lastly - totally un-needed HEAT reference - Remember when they staked out the Metals exchange, and the Swat guy hit the U-Haul truck side with his slung rifle... and Deniro pulls Valbow out and they bail?

Then the Swat Leader wants to take them down anyway, because he is all dressed up? And Vincent has to over-rule and whine about Tactical Command, etc?

Same type of situation...Only in real life, there was no one to voice the opposite opinion.

I wonder what will happen to the after action reports on this raid...(sorry, they were lost in a tragic boating accident)...

As long as there's a "war on drugs", this will keep happening, and the wrong people will still get roughed up or killed. Is the "collateral damage" worth it? For the cops, it apparently is because we see these no-knock early morning raids only increase in frequency, but for the average Joe who has his door kicked in by a tactical team who got the wrong address at 4 AM, it could be the difference between life and death. Someone needs to lose their job over this. It could have turned out a lot worse.

Quoted: There's a situation but the violence still is suspect.  Normally I come down on this stuff, but the address in this case is the problem, and it wasn't "wrong".  I've said it before, the counties or whatever the local jurisdiction happens to be are partly at fault.  One can have a 33rd st., 33rd. place, 33rd ave., 33rd lane, 33rd court and 33rd way, and these are in one county.  HArd to keep track though one would expect it to be done right.  But two houses, ostensibly with the same address, something needs to be done, as in separate numbers.  That's a "mapping jurisdiction" issue that should be fixed.  I'll not blame the police on this one, based on information available at this point, for the wrong house but I will question whether there were some bullies on the team getting their jollies.  No excuses with the old people: would you not tell me to identify my target before shooting?  No, they weren't shot, but if you have to get close enough to cause a physical injury, you have every way and every responsibility to see your "target."  Someone thought they could beat someone around without retribution.

Thats exactly why its the fault of the police.  You have a half dozen 33 streets then its the police's responsibility to make dam sure all facts are correct to include the correct 33 street.  And when there is two houses on the same lot with the same address and when they get there they simply chose the bigger house tells me they didn't know anything in the first place.  Everyone just played follow the leader.  Dam good thing the elderly couple were squeaky clean, or they would have been arrested so the cops could save face.

If this police department is run like where I work (and it sounds like it is), the participating officers will be given pay raises and promotions and they will find some non-participants to lay the blame on.

Police Chief Darryl Whaley said a full investigation would be made into the operation to determine what happened when officers confronted the elderly couple. He said he believes his officers acted correctly and followed procedures when they entered the first home. "Obviously, a mistake was made and it was regrettable," he said. "But, I stand by my officers. I think they acted properly."

Wonderful

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: now what exactly gives officers the right to assault everyone at a warrant location anyway... When your in your 80s humans tend to get pretty frail,all it takes is a fall and bones will break,dislocate. -BS My Dad is 81 and still does extended hunting and fishing trips to remote parts of Alaska and Canada as well as restoration work on warbirds and chasing women in his spare time. He'd kick your ass!

Well your dad is fricken superman, then. Everybody I know in their '80s is more fra-gi-lee than a cop in his 30s.

Quoted: I've asked before, but how well marked are all of YOUR houses? Well marked houses would prevent 99 % of these incidents.

BWWAHAHAHAHA. Now it's our    fault the cops kick in the wrong doors.

99% of the time.



ARFCOM. Serious entertainment for serious people.

[cop apologist] It's too hard to get it right 100% of the time. Mistakes happen. Oh well. Mark your houses better next time. You'll get over it. [/cop apologist]

How about the dogs?  anyone care to ask about the dogs?

Where does Hitlery stand on this sort of thing?  More restrictions on cops?  3-day notice of an impending raid?  Might have to vote Dem next time around.  There is NO EXCUSE for hitting the wrong house.

ETA:  I'm sure not all cops are power-mad JBT's, just most of them.  And before I am accused of being a cop-basher, I'll just go ahead and admit I have become one.

What a shame.

I think the Mayor and Police Chief said a collective: "Ruh Roh"

HH

Quoted: I think the Mayor and Police Chief said a collective: "Ruh Roh"

Really?

Police Chief Darryl Whaley said a full investigation would be made into the operation to determine what happened when officers confronted the elderly couple. He said he believes his officers acted correctly and followed procedures when they entered the first home. "Obviously, a mistake was made and it was regrettable," he said. "But, I stand by my officers. I think they acted properly."

Quoted: [BWWAHAHAHAHA. Now it's our    fault the cops kick in the wrong doors. 99% of the time. ARFCOM. Serious entertainment for serious people.

A properly marked house would have caused no confusion amongst the officers now, would it?
You try going to some of these unmarked houses sometime and see how you feel then.

Quoted: I've asked before, but how well marked are all of YOUR houses? Well marked houses would prevent 99 % of these incidents.

So, in your mind the onus is placed on the homeowner? How about just putting a big sign outside with an arrow pointing the house next door that says "The drug house is that way dumb asses"?

You think like a libtard. The responsibility should be placed on the officer that fucked up not with the victim.


Edit:

tag

The War on Drugs is the most unjust war that the US government has even been involved in.

It is a war against this countries own citizens.

Just to re-iterate the most important thing anyone has ever said in regards to this topic....  If the expected drug siezure is going to be small enough to be flushed down a toilet in haste there really isnt justification for a raid anyway.  Really now, how many rational thinking leos want to risk their ass for a fistful of pills or whatnot?  If theres enough to justify a raid, they should go ahead and grab the suspects when they leave the house then search it without hassle.  In this case there was a whole damn meth lab, so why risk life and limb raiding the place?  Worst case scenario you have to wait out a tweeker for a few days before they either kill themself or decide to make a dash out the back door.  I know you can play the what if game forever, but I think there are a lot more what if's in kicking doors down at 4 am than covering your bases from the start.  Hell you might have better luck catching a tweeker asleep at 4 pm than 4 am, but ubertactical mil spec outfits dont camo as well in daylight  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've asked before, but how well marked are all of YOUR houses? Well marked houses would prevent 99 % of these incidents. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yes, and it would be way too hard to drive by with a video camera and film the house prior to the raid, then show the house in the briefing. Even the idiot insurgents in Iraq do this. Its a sad day when cops in the US have to take classes from 3rd world uneducated insurgents on how to do proper mission planning and target analysis.

A properly marked house would have caused no confusion amongst the officers now, would it? You try going to some of these unmarked houses sometime and see how you feel then.

tc556guy, everytime you post you make yourself look more incompetent.  Since you are making excuses for this, you must also not have any tactical sense.  I take it you don't know how to conduct a professional operation either.