Quoted: As a doc and an AVID shooter, collector, and bonafide gun NUT.  This kind of shit pisses me off (the asking part).  Like Shootar said its all part of the AMA's antigun stance/remolding toward a leftist society (can you tell how I really feel?). In the young Captain's defense, a lot of this crap is now considered "part of a complete exam".  Read if you dont ask, and document this crap then your not doing your "job" as a doc.  I'm sure he's been told to ask these questions, mark the answers and move on.  If you dont, youre not doing a complete exam. If you say you did, even if you did the most complete physical exam and asked actually relevant medical questions (eg. do you have asthma? have you had any surgeries?, etc), but you didnt ask and document the answers to the PC BS questions, you can be charged with fraud. The govt/AMA/the great "they", have decided that they know better and can foster and change attitudes by attempting to force docs and health care providers to ask this kind of shit. Personally, I only ask if someone has a gun in the home if they tell me theyre depressed and suicidal or if they say their estranged abusive partner is threatening them (if they say, "no."  I usually recommend they get one - I hate women beaters!).

Recommend you return to my original posting.  This doctor is a Navy Captain...an O-6...equivalent rank to an Air Force, Army or Marine Corps colonel.   Having a retired old Navy LDO like me pop off to him probably helped put him in a testy mood.  I suspect it was the first time in decades someone has stood up to him.  Then, considering he is a New Englander, he is likely a flaming liberal and my stand against undue government intrusion into my life likely chapped his hide as well.  He actually said, "It's for the children".  I almost puked.

Just to refresh:  He was filling out a form containing much of the data that you physicians among us have mentioned.  I suspect that the info was AMA/APA mandated...and THAT is what burns my tail feathers.  I say again:  It is NONE of their damn business whether or not I have firearms in my home, or ammo, or whether I choose to employ trigger locks or have a gun safe...NONE of their concern.  He lectured me to lock up my ammo for Christ's sake!  Typical liberal crap.  I'll bet he'd have a cow if I told him that my Mossy 590 and at least one pistol are always ready for rapid response.

There is no person in this world more important to us than this boy.  As a retired officer, who was a collateral duty safety officer on two ships, I am acutely aware of the prime causes of mishaps (People making stupid decisions.) and the dangers of leaving firearms unattended with children playing nearby.  I take all necessary and prudent measures to ensure my two little ones never get their little grubbies on a gun unless it is to join me in busting caps.  Our safety training has so far been effective.  That said...I still don't trust the boy.  He is too crazy and might go against the rules and touch an unattended weapon rather than getting one of us adults.  THAT is why we always make sure he never gets access.  I don't need some Yankee Liberal MD, even IF he is a Captain, lecturing me.  Besides, I'm retired...he has no leverage!  

Finally, just where is all this info going?

Law enforcement can easily get your medical files due to HIPAA. So how many guns do you own?

There is a big difference between your employer telling you to add gun ownership info to all medical charts and doing it because of medical necessity. You make the choice when you choose to work there. You give in to the devil for a salary.

When someone is suicidal, asking about weapons in the house and suggesting securing them is common sense. This is not the same as doing it to everyone who walks in the door.

I know of no medical malpractice insurance company that requires physicians to collect this information on everyone for protection from lawsuits. I call BS on it. Prove it.

Quoted: Law enforcement can easily get your medical files due to HIPAA. So how many guns do you own? There is a big difference between your employer telling you to add gun ownership info to all medical charts and doing it because of medical necessity. You make the choice when you choose to work there. You give in to the devil for a salary. When someone is suicidal, asking about weapons in the house and suggesting securing them is common sense. This is not the same as doing it to everyone who walks in the door. I know of no medical malpractice insurance company that requires physicians to collect this information on everyone for protection from lawsuits. I call BS on it. Prove it.

HIPAA doesnt really allow the police to access information any easier than before.  All that you are required to give them is data that might be prudent to the incident taking place.  For instance, in your example of a suicidal patient the hospital may very well inform the police if you had mentioned owning guns to a doctor. On the other hand, information such as lab values, or that you have Herpes would not be given to the police even if they asked for it because it has no bearing on the incident at hand. I get many police officers that come in asking for information on patients.  My hospital is very strict on what information it releases to them.

If I was asked the question by a doctor I would just say I decline to answer the question.

I have never heard of any AMA guidelines asking for a gun history. If it exists, it is not part of the medicare guidelines for patient history in regards to reimbursement. If the doc asks you, it may be out of some professional experience he has had in his practice. No need for tinfoil here, docs are there to help you. After all, you are going to them for his professional services. He is not soliciting you for anything. If you don't like that particular doc, go find another.

If a patient wants to smart-off in my office because of a misunderstanding in communication, it is my job to explain that my motivations are only in the interest of patient care. I have either failed to communicate or reach a level of understanding with the patient if they take offense to something I have said/asked. If someone is being particularly obstinate/difficult or impossible to come to an understanding with, I will explain to that patient that our relationship is not going to work and they should seek another caregiver. Simple enough. No one's egos need to be bruised.

That being said, I would say from experience as a doctor that more physicians than not are not very good communicators. It is not something taught in medical school or  residency.

I want to sincerely thank those who have posted in this thread.  BTK is 13 and still seeing a pediatrician and this thread has made up my mind to go ahead and pull him over to our GP who buy the way is retired Army West Point grad and avid shooter.

Don't get me wrong BTKs doctor is a great guy and excellent doctor and has never asked such a question.  I just feel it's time, easier on the family to have one doctor since we all seem to share our flus etc,  and this is just one more staw on the camels back.

I will explain to the doctor my logic and also let him know the pediatric decision on gun questions is an influence.  We've gotten to know him quite well over the years, his reputation is very strong, has a waiting patient list, and sure he will have no issues with the decision.

Tj

 

"My response was this:  "With all due respect doctor, it is none of your business, nor that of the United States Navy nor the United States Marine Corps, whether or not I have any firearms in our home, nor their location or that of any ammunition I might have.  You may infer anything you wish from that answer but that IS all you're going to get.  I can tell you this:  If I had any firearms, they would be where the boy could not get to them.  Does that satisfy you?""

A simple yes would have been sufficiant.

Doctors have a lot to hide, about 100 people a day die in US hospitals because of a "medical mishap". Some guy wrote a book about it and went on Imus a few months ago but I had to go to work and missed it.

Quoted: "My response was this:  "With all due respect doctor, it is none of your business, nor that of the United States Navy nor the United States Marine Corps, whether or not I have any firearms in our home, nor their location or that of any ammunition I might have.  You may infer anything you wish from that answer but that IS all you're going to get.  I can tell you this:  If I had any firearms, they would be where the boy could not get to them.  Does that satisfy you?"" A simple yes would have been sufficiant.

You are wrong.  You were not there.

A yes would have revealed private information to a person who has no right to that information.

A no would have been a lie.

Possibly you missed the earlier threads?  Or are you just put off by my usual pedantic holier-than-thou attitude?  He was filling out a record.  That record is permanent.  The firearms related questions and his subsequent attempts to lecture me about firearms were out of line.

Had I said NO I would have been lying.  Believe it or not, I don't lie.  Telling the truth has caused me pain and trouble in the past...but lying can be far more damaging to one's character and reputation....which I value very highly.  I happen to believe passionately in this issue of private gun ownership without the government looking over my shoulder all the time.  The Orwellian nightmare may be coming true in the UK...but it has no place here.

I am also [usually] a polite person.  I was speaking to a brother officer, a gentleman, and a physician for whom I have respect.  I was polite but firm.

A simple yes or no would not have sufficed.

Try filling out a questionaire for

PRIMARY HEALTH INC.

Questions such as:

How many firearms do you have in you're home, are they locked up, how many smoke detectors in your home, do you make you're children wear seatbelts?

They had a very short tenure as my health care provider.

Quoted: Try filling out a questionaire for PRIMARY HEALTH INC. Questions such as: How many firearms do you have in you're home, are they locked up, how many smoke detectors in your home, do you make you're children wear seatbelts? They had a very short tenure as my health care provider.

I hope the firearms question is multiple choice!

Doctors or Guns?
A little something to ponder over.

a. The number of physicians in the US is 700,000.

b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year is 20,000.

c. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.


Then think about this:

a. The number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000 (yes,eighty-million!).

b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is1,500.

c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand.
As a public health measure I have withheld the statistics on lawyers and polititions for fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical attention.

Quoted: Try filling out a questionaire for PRIMARY HEALTH INC. Questions such as: How many firearms do you have in you're home, are they locked up, how many smoke detectors in your home, do you make you're children wear seatbelts? They had a very short tenure as my health care provider.

You may have lost a very good doc for your family.
Believe it or not, there are alot of idiots out there who need to be educated about just about everything. Lots of really poor parents out there.
Would you educate or encourage someone you knew to get a gun safe?  I sure do.

The point really isn't the question, it is whether there is an anti-gun agenda behind it. gun safety is entirely another matter, and we should all consider ourselves teachers in this regard. So why the animosity towards a doc trying to teach safety?
We also talk about choking, electrical receptacles wheny kids start to crawl.
Cupboards and cleaning chemicals when kids are walking.
Vaccinations all the way.
Smoke exposure.
Swimming pools and trampolines.
bike helmets.
carseats and seatbelts.
Sex, pregnancy and STDs.
Drugs, alcohol and tobacco

Maybe the thing to do is choose a doc with your best interests in mind and not on the basis of a single question....Maybe.

Right of Refusal
If your doctor starts pestering you about guns, you have several options.

See this article on doctors asking questions about guns and potential liability on their part.
www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopelprint070501.html also give the doctor this form.
www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?s=1ff416060d1567f2fc5f2c1a38534705&attachmentid=84
                                   
Bluedevil

Of course you can always refuse to answer any question. You can refuse anything.

As for asking such questions leading to legal problems for me or the idea that my license could be endangered by doing so? That's just plain laughable. It ain't gonna happen.
The docs I work with know about most of my guns and consider me something of a maverick. They even know I have an SMG. A couple of 'em shot it last year. I'm working on them. They're good guys overall, you just have to realize that a lot of docs spent a little to much of their younger years with their nose in a book. That's why I waited until I was 32 to go to medschool.

Lose the chip, chill out.....That's my advice. We all have better things to do than file some kind of report on everyone who comes in. Geeez. Couldn't tell anyone even if we wanted to.

I had my yearly check up today and this Female doctor asked me if I had any guns, I looked at her with my Grey/Blue eyes and  said:

What does this have to do with my general condition of my health?  I came here for a check up and a DRE.

Wow, I never knew this stuff was going on in doctors' offices!

You probably won't like my reply but doctors have the right to ask this question if they really believe we'd be better off without guns.  They're nuts for thinking so IMHO but they have the right to ask.

AND YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO RESPOND!

My God, how insidious the anti-gunners have become.  I simply don't want a bunch of old suburban women dictating how we should protect, or not protect ourselves.  It's like leaving our self-defense up to a bunch of SHEEP.  It's really getting crazy.

Can someone explain to me how old suburban women, who have never had a tough physical encounter in their life, feel they are qualified to comment on self-defense issues?  It's like me telling a brain surgeon how to do his job when I've never attended medical school.  What makes these sheep think they know so much?  I'm stumped.

(I say "old suburban women" because of the Sarah Bradys and Million Mom Marchers of the world.)

HIPAA is all about your rights the Gov't has took away from you. If you think your medical records are private, think again. Here are a few excerpts from a standard notification. It does not matter if you disagree to sign it, the Gov't has already taken your rights away.


3. Family Members and Friends.  We may disclose your health information to individuals, such as family members and friends, who are involved in your care or who help pay for your care.  We may make such disclosures when:  (a) we have your verbal agreement to do so; (b) we make such disclosures and you do not object; or (c) we can infer from the circumstances that you would not object to such disclosures.  For example, if your spouse comes into the exam room with you, we will assume that you agree to our disclosure of your information while your spouse is present in the room.

We also may disclose your health information to family members or friends in instances when you are unable to agree or object to such disclosures, provided that we feel it is in your best interests to make such disclosures and the disclosures relate to that family member or friend’s involvement in your care.  For example, if you present to our clinic with an emergency medical condition, we may share information with the family member or friend that comes with you to our clinic.  We also may share your health information with a family member or friend who calls us to request a prescription refill for you.

D. OTHER PERMITTED OR REQUIRED USES AND DISCLOSURES OF HEALTH INFORMATION.

There are certain instances in which we may be required or permitted by law to use or disclose your health information without your permission.  These instances are as follows:

1. As required by law.  We may disclose your health information when required by federal, state, or local law to do so.  For example, we are required by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to disclose your health information in order to allow HHS to evaluate whether we are in compliance with the federal privacy regulations.

2. Public Health Activities.  We may disclose your health information to public health authorities that are authorized by law to receive and collect health information for the purpose of preventing or controlling disease, injury or disability; to report births, deaths, suspected abuse or neglect, reactions to medications; or to facilitate product recalls.

3. Health Oversight Activities.  We may disclose your health information to a health oversight agency that is authorized by law to conduct health oversight activities, including audits, investigations, inspections, or licensure and certification surveys.  These activities are necessary for the government to monitor the persons or organizations that provide health care to individuals and to ensure compliance with applicable state and federal laws and regulations.

4. Judicial or administrative proceedings.  We may disclose your health information to courts or administrative agencies charged with the authority to hear and resolve lawsuits or disputes.  We may disclose your health information pursuant to a court order, a subpoena, a discovery request, or other lawful process issued by a judge or other person involved in the dispute, but only if efforts have been made to (i) notify you of the request for disclosure or (ii) obtain an order protecting your health information.

(A Florida prosecutor seized Rush Limbaugh's medical records using a search warrant, instead of a subpoena. A subpoena requires prior notification and can be challenged. That's why his case marks further erosion of your rights. They want the medical records to attempt to find something to charge him with).

6. Law Enforcement Official.  We may disclose your health information in response to a request received from a law enforcement official to report criminal activity or to respond to a subpoena, court order, warrant, summons, or similar process.

10. To Avert a Serious Threat to Health or Safety.  We may use or disclose your health information when necessary to prevent a serious threat to the health or safety of you or other individuals.

11. Military and Veterans.  If you are a member of the armed forces, we may use or disclose your health information as required by military command authorities.

12. National Security and Intelligence Activities.  We may use or disclose your health information to authorized federal officials for purposes of intelligence, counterintelligence, and other national security activities, as authorized by law.

13. Inmates.  If you are an inmate of a correctional institution or under the custody of a law enforcement official, we may use or disclose your health information to the correctional institution or to the law enforcement official as may be necessary (i) for the institution to provide you with health care; (ii) to protect the health or safety of you or another person; or (iii) for the safety and security of the correctional institution.

Right to Request Restrictions.  You have the right to request a restriction or limitation on the health information we use or disclose about you for treatment, payment, or health care operations.  You also have the right to request a limit on the health information we disclose about you to someone, such as a family member or friend, who is involved in your care or in the payment of your care.  For example, you could ask that we not use or disclose information regarding a particular treatment that you received.  We are not required to agree to your request. If we do agree, that agreement must be in writing and signed by you and us.