Disarming Baghdad - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Disarming Baghdad (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 10/19/2008 8:25:16 PM EDT

[#1]

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<snip>

The Japanese, like the Germans, have been quite the postwar success story, but their disarmament was well deserved and hasn't had a significant negative effect on their society.

The Japanese and Germans have long histories of being cultures of strong willed people with intense feelings of nationalism, pride and resillency. Today they are cultures of limp wristed panty waists with cultures of government dependency and cannot even defend their own nations without the United States military.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing that happens when your country essentially becomes a massive cult of fanatics hellbent on conquering the world or being killed trying, then attacking one of the world's superpowers and putting up four years of some of the most intense resistance in history, and then being beaten into submission and conquered at the cost of millions of lives on all sides.

Simple cause and effect gentlemen. When you prove that you are a tremendous threat when armed, those who feel threatened will disarm you whenever they get the chance. Disarming Japan is not much different than disarming violent felons.

Japan took their beating and in the years since have developed into a civilized, industrious, and productive society. I'm sure that some of them would prefer to be armed, but they can thank their ancestors for the way things in Japan are now, just like we can thank ours for the way things are in America.

Disarming the general populace of their personal weapons was not a function of the surrender of either Germany or Japan. The only disarmament the military was concerned with was the disarmament of the vanquished armed forces.

In Germany perhaps . In Japan, IIRC, everyone was supposed to be disarmed, although I don't think guns were ever actually common in Japanese homes. Instead, they took the traditional weapons, the swords. These were disposed of, with many being taken home as trophies and many more(about 7 tons worth) being dumped into the ocean.

Posted: 10/19/2008 8:27:43 PM EDT

[#2]

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The Japanese, like the Germans, have been quite the postwar success story, but their disarmament was well deserved and hasn't had a significant negative effect on their society.

Let's see Germany is now a socialist country that is part of Unionized Europe. Exactly the thing we fought to prevent back then.

Posted: 10/19/2008 8:35:14 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
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The Japanese, like the Germans, have been quite the postwar success story, but their disarmament was well deserved and hasn't had a significant negative effect on their society.

Let's see Germany is now a socialist country that is part of Unionized Europe. Exactly the thing we fought to prevent back then.

I suppose success is a relative concept, but Germany seems to have peacefully gone in the direction that its people wanted to go and has spent the last six decades rebuilding itself into a somewhat respectable entity, despite the noteable handicap of being divided an controlled by two superpowers that spent the 40 years after WWII locked in a cold war. There are numerous countries throughout the world that can't claim to have had nearly the same level of success following wars that they have been engaged in.

Posted: 10/19/2008 8:38:30 PM EDT

[#4]

This is bullshit but I can't say I'm surprised.

Rights are inherent and natural from God, not man.

Does not matter if they have a constitution and 2nd Amendment or not.

Not all the Iraqis are terrorists ( I support disarming terrorists and criminals )

We go over there, stir up the hornets nest, making the region more unpredictable and tell them we are there to help them, and then disarm them and leave them defenseless ???

If I was a Iraqi citizen I would originally have been happy the US troops came to kill the bad guys, but when they started this shit I would quickly realize they had become the bad guys.

Its sickening and it could happen here.

Posted: 10/19/2008 8:44:35 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
But it was the Iraqi Govt that wants to disarm Baghdad.

NOT THE US

It may be the Iraqi government's desire to disarm their citizens, but i'm pretty sure we are under no obligation to do it for them. Let them take some responsibility for it.

Our constitution may only apply to us US citizens, but I still believe that the freedoms granted in it in general, should be granted to everyone. I would be happy if everyone could have "arms", or freedom of speech etc. but the subjects of other countries have decided for themselves to make it a priority or not.

If the US army were told to arrest or kill some journalists because they broke Iraqi laws by writing something bad about their government, would we do it?...I would think no.

Posted: 10/19/2008 8:46:34 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
The Japanese, like the Germans, have been quite the postwar success story, but their disarmament was well deserved and hasn't had a significant negative effect on their society.

Let's see Germany is now a socialist country that is part of Unionized Europe. Exactly the thing we fought to prevent back then.

I suppose success is a relative concept, but Germany seems to have peacefully gone in the direction that its people wanted to go and has spent the last six decades rebuilding itself into a somewhat respectable entity, despite the noteable handicap of being divided an controlled by two superpowers that spent the 40 years after WWII locked in a cold war. There are numerous countries throughout the world that can't claim to have had nearly the same level of success following wars that they have been engaged in.

And that is a result of a disarmed populace?

How much time have you spent in Germany?

Posted: 10/19/2008 8:47:04 PM EDT

[#7]

Most arfcomers would shit Frisbees it they saw how Iraqis handle aks. Go stand around an SOI checkpoint and count the times you get flagged. By those fucktards, accidental shootings are so common they probably account form more fatalties at present than the insurgency. The other day some Iraqi shot another Iraqi over sheep food. Most of the Iraqis are not using their AKs to stop the insurgency on their own maybe if they did this wouldn't be happening.
This is not our country it's theirs it's what they want to do let them do it. I am a bomb tech when the Iraqi army wants our support we offer it. Alot of times they have shit they want me to come get and destroy. Alot of times they have shit that is dangerous as hell but don't want me to take it or disarm it. So I don't because it's not my country if they want to have an accidental detonation and kill their own people it's their perogitive. All I can do is warn them and leave before it becomes unsafe for my men.

Posted: 10/19/2008 8:55:23 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Well,i see they're getting practice for.........

Chasing Haj is good practice too, what not to do and how to do it better.

Posted: 10/19/2008 8:59:13 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
The Japanese, like the Germans, have been quite the postwar success story, but their disarmament was well deserved and hasn't had a significant negative effect on their society.

Let's see Germany is now a socialist country that is part of Unionized Europe. Exactly the thing we fought to prevent back then.

I suppose success is a relative concept, but Germany seems to have peacefully gone in the direction that its people wanted to go and has spent the last six decades rebuilding itself into a somewhat respectable entity, despite the noteable handicap of being divided an controlled by two superpowers that spent the 40 years after WWII locked in a cold war. There are numerous countries throughout the world that can't claim to have had nearly the same level of success following wars that they have been engaged in.

And that is a result of a disarmed populace?

How much time have you spent in Germany?

I don't think I said that it had anything to do with their disarmed populace one way or another. I was simply explaining what I meant when I said that Germany was a postwar success story. I don't believe that their being disarmed made much of a difference.

I spent quite a bit of time in Berlin when I was a kid, but I don't recall doing much thinking or any talking about such matters back then, not that I could have talked to most of the people there anyway.

Posted: 10/19/2008 9:09:15 PM EDT

[#10]

Don't the Iraqi's have the right to keep an AK written into their Constitution?

Posted: 10/19/2008 9:13:10 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
The Japanese, like the Germans, have been quite the postwar success story, but their disarmament was well deserved and hasn't had a significant negative effect on their society.

Let's see Germany is now a socialist country that is part of Unionized Europe. Exactly the thing we fought to prevent back then.

I suppose success is a relative concept, but Germany seems to have peacefully gone in the direction that its people wanted to go and has spent the last six decades rebuilding itself into a somewhat respectable entity, despite the noteable handicap of being divided an controlled by two superpowers that spent the 40 years after WWII locked in a cold war. There are numerous countries throughout the world that can't claim to have had nearly the same level of success following wars that they have been engaged in.

And that is a result of a disarmed populace?

How much time have you spent in Germany?

I don't think I said that it had anything to do with their disarmed populace one way or another. I was simply explaining what I meant when I said that Germany was a postwar success story. I don't believe that their being disarmed made much of a difference.

I spent quite a bit of time in Berlin when I was a kid, but I don't recall doing much thinking or any talking about such matters back then, not that I could have talked to most of the people there anyway.

Perhaps if Germans were allowed to be armed not quite so many of them would have lived behind the Iron Curtain for so long....

Posted: 10/19/2008 9:18:07 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:

The confiscation of their arms and destruction of their war obsessed culture doesn't seem to have had much of a negative impact on present day Japan.

So are you saying a gun grab in the U.S. would have no impact either?

If so, will you advocate for one?

America isn't Japan.

My point in my original post was that all of this BS about such actions foreshadowing things to come in the U.S. is just that. BS. We disarmed the Japanese(with good cause) more than 60 years ago and it didn't lead to gun confiscation here. We've disarmed people throughout the world for various reasons in the decades since and that never led to confiscation here either.

I don't believe that a real "gun grab" will ever occur in the United States. Of course, I
would not advocate one.

Why not? According to you it didn't hurt the Japanese any.

The Japanese, like the Germans, have been quite the postwar success story, but their disarmament was well deserved and hasn't had a significant negative effect on their society.

Germany is a liberal socialist country that is being taken over by Muslim immigrants. Ethnic Germans have a statistically non-sustainable birth rate of 1.3 versus a Muslim birthrate of 5.7

Thats not a success story in my book.

Posted: 10/19/2008 9:21:22 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well,i see they're getting practice for.........

Chasing Haj is good practice too, what not to do and how to do it better.

I think he is more concerned about you and your squad knocking at his door under orders from "the messiah" some time in the future.

I assume you are a gun owner, I'd hope you would feel some sympathy for those people in Baghdad since you know the criminals and the terrorist are not going to disarm.

Posted: 10/19/2008 9:34:13 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
So why are we entitled to these rights but others in other countries are not?

Because someone in our country's history cared enough about us to declare that we had an uninfringeable right to bear arms, while they seem not to have been so lucky.

It really is as simple as that. If our forefathers hadn't believed that we should be armed, we'd have suffered the same fate as the rest of the world.

If it makes you feel better to not call it a "God Given" righ then just call it Natural Law. Every animal on this planet if give the ability to fend for it's life, and protect it's family.

This.

Posted: 10/19/2008 9:37:08 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So why are we entitled to these rights but others in other countries are not?

Because someone in our country's history cared enough about us to declare that we had an uninfringeable right to bear arms, while they seem not to have been so lucky.

It really is as simple as that. If our forefathers hadn't believed that we should be armed, we'd have suffered the same fate as the rest of the world.

If it makes you feel better to not call it a "God Given" righ then just call it Natural Law. Every animal on this planet if give the ability to fend for it's life, and protect it's family.

This.

Gawd my spellin is whorable.

Posted: 10/19/2008 10:32:05 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The confiscation of their arms and destruction of their war obsessed culture doesn't seem to have had much of a negative impact on present day Japan.

So are you saying a gun grab in the U.S. would have no impact either?

If so, will you advocate for one?

America isn't Japan.

My point in my original post was that all of this BS about such actions foreshadowing things to come in the U.S. is just that. BS. We disarmed the Japanese(with good cause) more than 60 years ago and it didn't lead to gun confiscation here. We've disarmed people throughout the world for various reasons in the decades since and that never led to confiscation here either.

I don't believe that a real "gun grab" will ever occur in the United States. Of course, I
would not advocate one.

Why not? According to you it didn't hurt the Japanese any.

The Japanese, like the Germans, have been quite the postwar success story, but their disarmament was well deserved and hasn't had a significant negative effect on their society.

Except for allowing the Yakuza and other gangsters to shoot/ beat people in the subways, nightclubs, and on the streets, with impunity, you're right. Hell, on Okinawa, they beat a Marine almost to death, and then gangraped his wife for a day and a night... all because they decided they wanted to party at his house, and he didn't have enough beer.

I've seen the Yakuza in action in Kinville, and the JPs refused to arrest them; they arrested the guy that got beat and knifed because he caused a disturbance. His disturbance was not giving the Yaks his money and getting beat down for it.

Gun crimes are commited all the time in Japan, they just rarely get reported or documented as gun crimes.

Also, the Japanese are allowed to own guns. They are just very regulated, and must be locked up at a "sports establishment" or the local police precint, and checked out.

Posted: 10/19/2008 10:33:08 PM EDT

[#17]

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Well shit. I guess inherent rights only exist in the U.S.

At least for now

Indeed, the U.S. Constitution only applies to people in the United States. Iraqis have no Second Amendment rights.

I'm always amazed at the number of people here who think this kind of thing is a dress rehersal for gun confiscation in the United States.

Make sure you don't read about what we did in Japan after they surrendered in 1945. You'd probably have a fucking stroke.

Are our rights given to us by our creator or by man? They may not have a Second Amendment but they still have God given rights.

As far as what happen in Japan after 1945, that didn't work out too well for the citizens there now did it?

God given right to an AK in every home? No, I do not believe that they do. Honestly, I don't believe that God gives anyone any sort if rights in this world, what, with free will and all.

The confiscation of their arms and destruction of their war obsessed culture doesn't seem to have had much of a negative impact on present day Japan.

Where do our rights come from?

A willingness to do violence to others, which is all but absent in our culture now.

Absent in all but the criminals.

Posted: 10/19/2008 11:16:59 PM EDT

[#18]

Well, they need to do it- not us. It goes against everything this nation stands for and what our Soliders utimately fight for whever they go, the Constitution. These sort of things are bad all around.

Posted: 10/19/2008 11:50:25 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
The Japanese, like the Germans, have been quite the postwar success story, but their disarmament was well deserved and hasn't had a significant negative effect on their society.

Let's see Germany is now a socialist country that is part of Unionized Europe. Exactly the thing we fought to prevent back then.

I suppose success is a relative concept, but Germany seems to have peacefully gone in the direction that its people wanted to go and has spent the last six decades rebuilding itself into a somewhat respectable entity, despite the noteable handicap of being divided an controlled by two superpowers that spent the 40 years after WWII locked in a cold war. There are numerous countries throughout the world that can't claim to have had nearly the same level of success following wars that they have been engaged in.

And that is a result of a disarmed populace?

How much time have you spent in Germany?

I don't think I said that it had anything to do with their disarmed populace one way or another. I was simply explaining what I meant when I said that Germany was a postwar success story. I don't believe that their being disarmed made much of a difference.

I spent quite a bit of time in Berlin when I was a kid, but I don't recall doing much thinking or any talking about such matters back then, not that I could have talked to most of the people there anyway.

Perhaps if Germans were allowed to be armed not quite so many of them would have lived behind the Iron Curtain for so long....

Prague Spring...

Armed Citizens don't have much of a prayer against motor-rifle battalions...

Posted: 10/20/2008 12:02:14 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Well,i see they're getting practice for.........

Yup...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Disarming Baghdad (Page 2 of 2)

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