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Posted: 6/18/2014 6:12:30 PM EDT
[#1]
holy shit
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Posted: 6/18/2014 6:13:04 PM EDT
[#2]
But... TERRORISTSSS!!!!111
So it's OK!!!1 ok!? |
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Posted: 6/18/2014 6:13:54 PM EDT
[#3]
We're doing a great job of recasting America in the Soviet mould.
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Posted: 6/18/2014 6:15:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're doing a great job of recasting America in the Soviet mould. I would have to agree with you, for the most part 
Eta I guess it just proves that a lot of people don't care what you do as long as they keep getting their free shit. |
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Posted: 6/18/2014 6:30:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think so. Tough to prove a negative, but it's a very slippery slope. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has this sort of shit ever *not* led to government death squads and people getting disappeared? I don't think so. Tough to prove a negative, but it's a very slippery slope. That is not a slippery slope. That is in direct violation if the 6th amendment and the basis of our legal system Not a slippery slope, we already fell to the bottom |
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Posted: 6/18/2014 7:33:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The constitution applies to bad Americans as well . Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Absolute horseshit. This ruling is a travesty. yep he was probably a bad guy, but this has bigger implications. Who's next? The constitution applies to bad Americans as well . This. Its a "double edged sword" exactly for this reason. Better to let a hundred guilty go than for one innocent suffer, or something like that. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 1:33:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Its a "double edged sword" exactly for this reason. Better to let a hundred guilty go than for one innocent suffer, or something like that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Absolute horseshit. This ruling is a travesty. yep he was probably a bad guy, but this has bigger implications. Who's next? The constitution applies to bad Americans as well . This. Its a "double edged sword" exactly for this reason. Better to let a hundred guilty go than for one innocent suffer, or something like that. 2014 update: Better to hang a hundred innocents to get one guilty than for anybody to be free.
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Posted: 6/19/2014 1:40:01 AM EDT
[#8]
I can't read, but I sure can get outraged! |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:24:46 AM EDT
[#9]
The 6th Amendment is overrated anyway.
It's better to just completely ignore it like the 2nd and 10th Amendments. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:28:42 AM EDT
[#10]
OK, can someone please explain to me what peace of evidence was presented to the Jury which was not made available to the Defense Attorney?
Or, are you guys actually suggesting this guy was not convicted by a jury? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:40:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Secret evidence? Why not secret witnesses, a secret verdict and a secret sentence? Fuck it, just have the police kill him when they find him. Avoid all this messy paperwork. That whole looking for evidence, running down leads, and interviewing suspects is too damn much work to solve a crime. It's sooooo much easier to solve a crime that you've created. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:43:24 AM EDT
[#12]
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That whole looking for evidence, running down leads, and interviewing suspects is too damn much work to solve a crime. It's sooooo much easier to solve a crime that you've created. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Secret evidence? Why not secret witnesses, a secret verdict and a secret sentence? Fuck it, just have the police kill him when they find him. Avoid all this messy paperwork. That whole looking for evidence, running down leads, and interviewing suspects is too damn much work to solve a crime. It's sooooo much easier to solve a crime that you've created. You lost me. Are you now suggesting this was entrapment? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:44:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Thanks a lot, Patriot Act.
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:53:09 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has this sort of shit ever *not* led to government death squads and people getting disappeared? Nope.
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:57:39 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not the situation. Intel that May or may not exist at whatever agency isn't the basis for his prosecution and isn't being used by the gov as evidence in the case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not sure about false flag...  but it is interesting that the government claims they can deny discovery of the convicting evidence.That's not the situation. Intel that May or may not exist at whatever agency isn't the basis for his prosecution and isn't being used by the gov as evidence in the case. What do they call it? parallel construction? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:59:40 AM EDT
[#16]
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OK, can someone please explain to me what peace of evidence was presented to the Jury which was not made available to the Defense Attorney? Or, are you guys actually suggesting this guy was not convicted by a jury? Fruit of the poison tree. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:06:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Was the NSA stuff used to convict him or played a part in his arrest, etc.?
Can the defendant submit an FOIA request? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:24:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not the situation. Intel that May or may not exist at whatever agency isn't the basis for his prosecution and isn't being used by the gov as evidence in the case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not sure about false flag... but it is interesting that the government claims they can deny discovery of the convicting evidence.That's not the situation. Intel that May or may not exist at whatever agency isn't the basis for his prosecution and isn't being used by the gov as evidence in the case. What's the term that the DEA uses when they rebuild their way to a piece of evidence that they initially discovered through SIGINT means, when they don't want to reveal the actual method? Alternate construction, or something like that. ETA: Quoted:
What do they call it? parallel construction? That's it. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:28:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the term that the DEA uses when they rebuild their way to a piece of evidence that they initially discovered through SIGINT means, when they don't want to reveal the actual method? Alternate construction, or something like that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not sure about false flag... but it is interesting that the government claims they can deny discovery of the convicting evidence.That's not the situation. Intel that May or may not exist at whatever agency isn't the basis for his prosecution and isn't being used by the gov as evidence in the case. What's the term that the DEA uses when they rebuild their way to a piece of evidence that they initially discovered through SIGINT means, when they don't want to reveal the actual method? Alternate construction, or something like that. Nothing about the fact that this guy tried to blow somethign up has anything to do with what may or may not tipped off authorities that he was a terrorist who wanted to blow something up. But, I guess this is proof the government is using the NSA to target white christian war veterans for persecution and FEMA camps. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:31:59 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing about the fact that this guy tried to blow somethign up has anything to do with what may or may not tipped off authorities that he was a terrorist who wanted to blow something up. But, I guess this is proof the government is using the NSA to target white christian war veterans for persecution and FEMA camps. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Not sure about false flag... but it is interesting that the government claims they can deny discovery of the convicting evidence.That's not the situation. Intel that May or may not exist at whatever agency isn't the basis for his prosecution and isn't being used by the gov as evidence in the case. What's the term that the DEA uses when they rebuild their way to a piece of evidence that they initially discovered through SIGINT means, when they don't want to reveal the actual method? Alternate construction, or something like that. Nothing about the fact that this guy tried to blow somethign up has anything to do with what may or may not tipped off authorities that he was a terrorist who wanted to blow something up. But, I guess this is proof the government is using the NSA to target white christian war veterans for persecution and FEMA camps. Unless there is proof that he wasn't a terrorist until the Feds turned him into one. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:35:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless there is proof that he wasn't a terrorist until the Feds turned him into one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not sure about false flag... but it is interesting that the government claims they can deny discovery of the convicting evidence.That's not the situation. Intel that May or may not exist at whatever agency isn't the basis for his prosecution and isn't being used by the gov as evidence in the case. What's the term that the DEA uses when they rebuild their way to a piece of evidence that they initially discovered through SIGINT means, when they don't want to reveal the actual method? Alternate construction, or something like that. Nothing about the fact that this guy tried to blow somethign up has anything to do with what may or may not tipped off authorities that he was a terrorist who wanted to blow something up. But, I guess this is proof the government is using the NSA to target white christian war veterans for persecution and FEMA camps. Unless there is proof that he wasn't a terrorist until the Feds turned him into one. You mean like Randy Weaver? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:38:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put me on he jury and the guy would walk free regardless if I thought beyond a reasonable doubt he was guilty. Reason, one has the right to view the evidence presented against you to help build your defense. Not looking so much at this particular case alone but others that would come after it. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:42:16 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Put me on he jury and the guy would walk free regardless if I thought beyond a reasonable doubt he was guilty. Reason, one has the right to view the evidence presented against you to help build your defense. Not looking so much at this particular case alone but others that would come after it. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. All of which he had. The Defense Attorney is upset that the Feds even had reason to suspect him in the first place - and is demanding to know why. This, despite that having squat all to do with what he was convincted of. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:44:08 AM EDT
[#24]
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................... All of which he had. The Defense Attorney is upset that the Feds even had reason to suspect him in the first place - and is demanding to know why. This, despite that having squat all to do with what he was convincted of. If these are the facts...........this story is a bit misleading IMHO. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:45:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryUnless there is proof that he wasn't a terrorist until the Feds turned him into one. Quote HistoryUnless there is proof that he wasn't a terrorist until the Feds turned him into one. You mean like Randy Weaver? Yep, EXACTLY like Randy Weaver. The original criminal act that started the whole Ruby Ridge incident (sawing off two shotguns to NFA regulated length) was suggested by a government agent. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:52:25 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If these are the facts...........this story is a bit misleading IMHO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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................... All of which he had. The Defense Attorney is upset that the Feds even had reason to suspect him in the first place - and is demanding to know why. This, despite that having squat all to do with what he was convincted of. If these are the facts...........this story is a bit misleading IMHO. No shit. FBI finds about nutcase in internet, posting about Jihad and wanting to blow things up. FBI gains access to website where nutcase posts. FBI builds rapport with nutcase. FBI provides nutcase with fake bomb in an elaborate "sting." FBI pursues and gains conviction for bombing attempt. Defense Attorney learns that FBI finds about about this guy thanks to NSA surveillance, sees opportunity to exploit the same public derp that lionized Snowden as a hero. Massive derpish butthurt ensues, despite this being a textbook example of the reality of NSA and law enforcement connections, as opposed to the elaborate nonsense spotted by morans here in GD. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:53:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolute horseshit. This ruling is a travesty. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:53:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, EXACTLY like Randy Weaver. The original criminal act that started the whole Ruby Ridge incident (sawing off two shotguns to NFA regulated length) was suggested by a government agent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless there is proof that he wasn't a terrorist until the Feds turned him into one. You mean like Randy Weaver? Yep, EXACTLY like Randy Weaver. The original criminal act that started the whole Ruby Ridge incident (sawing off two shotguns to NFA regulated length) was suggested by a government agent. So, you are suggesting this was entrapment? His attorney is not claiming he lacked access to the conversations between the FBI and his client which led to the bombing attempt. Are you suggesting otherwise? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:53:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.............. No shit. FBI finds about nutcase in internet, posting about Jihad and wantign to blow things up. FBI gains access to website where nutcase posts. FBI builds rapport with nutcase. FBI provides nutcase with fake bomb in an elaborate "sting." FBI pursues and gains conviction for bombing attempt. Defense Attorney learns that FBI finds about about this guy thanks to NSA surveillance, sees opportunity to esplout the same public derp that lionized Snowden as a hero. Massive derpish butthurt ensues, despite this being a textbook example of the reality of NSA and law enforcement connections, as opposed to the elaborate nonsense spotted by morans here in GD. I see. Thanks for the info. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:03:46 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No shit. FBI finds about nutcase in internet, posting about Jihad and wanting to blow things up. FBI gains access to website where nutcase posts. FBI builds rapport with nutcase. FBI provides nutcase with fake bomb in an elaborate "sting." FBI pursues and gains conviction for bombing attempt. Defense Attorney learns that FBI finds about about this guy thanks to NSA surveillance, sees opportunity to exploit the same public derp that lionized Snowden as a hero. Massive derpish butthurt ensues, despite this being a textbook example of the reality of NSA and law enforcement connections, as opposed to the elaborate nonsense spotted by morans here in GD. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but the whole fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine states that if evidence is collected illegally then that and everything that comes from it is tossed unless the evidence would have been found through the normal course of investigation. The idea that secret programs can get an investigation started and then the parallel construction effort builds up a fake path that is used as the story on how the case was built is wholly un-American. Courts should be triers of fact, not facts interspersed with the odd bit of fiction. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:06:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............. whole fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine states that if evidence is collected illegally then that and everything that comes from it is tossed unless the evidence would have been found through the normal course of investigation. The idea that secret programs can get an investigation started and then the parallel construction effort builds up a fake path that is used as the story on how the case was built is wholly un-American. Courts should be triers of fact, not facts interspersed with the odd bit of fiction. I think you are right about the poison tree analogy but isn't the intent of the NSA to find terrorists? And terrorists are those who bomb innocents en masse? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:06:46 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but the whole fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine states that if evidence is collected illegally then that and everything that comes from it is tossed unless the evidence would have been found through the normal course of investigation. The idea that secret programs can get an investigation started and then the parallel construction effort builds up a fake path that is used as the story on how the case was built is wholly un-American. Courts should be triers of fact, not facts interspersed with the odd bit of fiction. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No shit. FBI finds about nutcase in internet, posting about Jihad and wanting to blow things up. FBI gains access to website where nutcase posts. FBI builds rapport with nutcase. FBI provides nutcase with fake bomb in an elaborate "sting." FBI pursues and gains conviction for bombing attempt. Defense Attorney learns that FBI finds about about this guy thanks to NSA surveillance, sees opportunity to exploit the same public derp that lionized Snowden as a hero. Massive derpish butthurt ensues, despite this being a textbook example of the reality of NSA and law enforcement connections, as opposed to the elaborate nonsense spotted by morans here in GD. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but the whole fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine states that if evidence is collected illegally then that and everything that comes from it is tossed unless the evidence would have been found through the normal course of investigation. The idea that secret programs can get an investigation started and then the parallel construction effort builds up a fake path that is used as the story on how the case was built is wholly un-American. Courts should be triers of fact, not facts interspersed with the odd bit of fiction. Yup. Parallel construction like a motherfucker. You don't have to deal with the fruit of the poisonous tree if you just tell the court that you picked it from a different tree. 
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:08:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you are right about the poison tree analogy but isn't the intent of the NSA to find terrorists? And terrorists are those who bomb innocents en masse? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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............. whole fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine states that if evidence is collected illegally then that and everything that comes from it is tossed unless the evidence would have been found through the normal course of investigation. The idea that secret programs can get an investigation started and then the parallel construction effort builds up a fake path that is used as the story on how the case was built is wholly un-American. Courts should be triers of fact, not facts interspersed with the odd bit of fiction. I think you are right about the poison tree analogy but isn't the intent of the NSA to find terrorists? And terrorists are those who bomb innocents en masse? That's all well and good. But, if the NSA is going to assist in law enforcement activities on American soil, then any evidence they gather and provide to assist in convictions needs to be available to everyone involved, not hidden, kept secret, and/or lied about. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:18:20 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you are right about the poison tree analogy but isn't the intent of the NSA to find terrorists? And terrorists are those who bomb innocents en masse? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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............. whole fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine states that if evidence is collected illegally then that and everything that comes from it is tossed unless the evidence would have been found through the normal course of investigation. The idea that secret programs can get an investigation started and then the parallel construction effort builds up a fake path that is used as the story on how the case was built is wholly un-American. Courts should be triers of fact, not facts interspersed with the odd bit of fiction. I think you are right about the poison tree analogy but isn't the intent of the NSA to find terrorists? And terrorists are those who bomb innocents en masse? It gets a lot more complicated when you start using the NSA's evidence (or its progeny) to prosecute U.S. citizens in U.S. courts. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:22:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Put me on he jury and the guy would walk free regardless if I thought beyond a reasonable doubt he was guilty. Reason, one has the right to view the evidence presented against you to help build your defense. Not looking so much at this particular case alone but others that would come after it. The jury would never know. The admissibility of evidence isn't a decision they make nor are the arguments for such conducted in their presence. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:22:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............ That's all well and good. But, if the NSA is going to assist in law enforcement activities on American soil, then any evidence they gather and provide to assist in convictions needs to be available to everyone involved, not hidden, kept secret, and/or lied about. Good point. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:22:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
................. It gets a lot more complicated when you start using the NSA's evidence (or its progeny) to prosecute U.S. citizens in U.S. courts. Good point. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:27:36 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. Parallel construction like a motherfucker. You don't have to deal with the fruit of the poisonous tree if you just tell the court that you picked it from a different tree.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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No shit. FBI finds about nutcase in internet, posting about Jihad and wanting to blow things up. FBI gains access to website where nutcase posts. FBI builds rapport with nutcase. FBI provides nutcase with fake bomb in an elaborate "sting." FBI pursues and gains conviction for bombing attempt. Defense Attorney learns that FBI finds about about this guy thanks to NSA surveillance, sees opportunity to exploit the same public derp that lionized Snowden as a hero. Massive derpish butthurt ensues, despite this being a textbook example of the reality of NSA and law enforcement connections, as opposed to the elaborate nonsense spotted by morans here in GD. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but the whole fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine states that if evidence is collected illegally then that and everything that comes from it is tossed unless the evidence would have been found through the normal course of investigation. The idea that secret programs can get an investigation started and then the parallel construction effort builds up a fake path that is used as the story on how the case was built is wholly un-American. Courts should be triers of fact, not facts interspersed with the odd bit of fiction. Yup. Parallel construction like a motherfucker. You don't have to deal with the fruit of the poisonous tree if you just tell the court that you picked it from a different tree.
Or if you just 'stumbled' upon it. Then you wouldn't even have to say where it came from. But then that wouldn't be 'the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth' would it?
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:28:34 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you are right about the poison tree analogy but isn't the intent of the NSA to find terrorists? And terrorists are those who bomb innocents en masse? The NSA, being an intelligence agency, has legal prohibitions on what it can collect against American citizens. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:37:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The NSA, being an intelligence agency, has legal prohibitions on what it can collect against American citizens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think you are right about the poison tree analogy but isn't the intent of the NSA to find terrorists? And terrorists are those who bomb innocents en masse? The NSA, being an intelligence agency, has legal prohibitions on what it can collect against American citizens. Laws are for peons. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:39:43 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Laws are for peons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think you are right about the poison tree analogy but isn't the intent of the NSA to find terrorists? And terrorists are those who bomb innocents en masse? The NSA, being an intelligence agency, has legal prohibitions on what it can collect against American citizens. Laws are for peons. True. Since they don't have criminal penalties tied to them they would be better described as legal recommendations. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:43:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or if you just 'stumbled' upon it. Then you wouldn't even have to say where it came from. But then that wouldn't be 'the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth' would it?
That only applies to peasants. Not the King. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:44:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True. Since they don't have criminal penalties tied to them they would be better described as legal recommendations. As I said in another thread ... the Constitution is basically just the Pirate Code at this point. More like "guidelines." |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:45:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The NSA, being an intelligence agency, has legal prohibitions on what it can collect against American citizens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think you are right about the poison tree analogy but isn't the intent of the NSA to find terrorists? And terrorists are those who bomb innocents en masse? The NSA, being an intelligence agency, has legal prohibitions on what it can collect against American citizens. Since the NSA is a part of the US military, does posse comitatus come into play at all? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:46:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I said in another thread ... the Constitution is basically just the Pirate Code at this point. More like "guidelines." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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True. Since they don't have criminal penalties tied to them they would be better described as legal recommendations. As I said in another thread ... the Constitution is basically just the Pirate Code at this point. More like "guidelines." Not really a 'code' at this point. There are plenty of 'laws' that pretty much support your assertion. One need not look further than the second amendment. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:46:50 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I said in another thread ... the Constitution is basically just the Pirate Code at this point. More like "guidelines." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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True. Since they don't have criminal penalties tied to them they would be better described as legal recommendations. As I said in another thread ... the Constitution is basically just the Pirate Code at this point. More like "guidelines." I think it might be more like "science fiction" nowadays. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:47:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yep he was probably a bad guy, but this has bigger implications. Who's next? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Absolute horseshit. This ruling is a travesty. yep he was probably a bad guy, but this has bigger implications. Who's next? So few people get that. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:49:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The NSA, being an intelligence agency, has legal prohibitions on what it can collect against American citizens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think you are right about the poison tree analogy but isn't the intent of the NSA to find terrorists? And terrorists are those who bomb innocents en masse? The NSA, being an intelligence agency, has legal prohibitions on what it can collect against American citizens. Except that the DOJ guidelines for its domestic surveillance say that it's fine to collect purely domestic communications data, and it's fine to actually look at and analyze it if it's "inadvertent," and then if you happen to find something that might be of interest to a purely domestic LE agency, you are to forward it to that agency. Not destroy it and pretend you never saw that thing that you weren't supposed to look at in the first place. It's all very convenient. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 5:51:43 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolute horseshit. This ruling is a travesty. When I become a judge, my rule on this is very simple - the government can either keep its evidence a secret, or it can prosecute the person charged. Pick one. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 6:04:39 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I become a judge, my rule on this is very simple - the government can either keep its evidence a secret, or it can prosecute the person charged. Pick one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Absolute horseshit. This ruling is a travesty. When I become a judge, my rule on this is very simple - the government can either keep its evidence a secret, or it can prosecute the person charged. Pick one. I'd make rights violations in the name of safety unusable in criminal trials. The government can have their searches but they don't get to have their cake and eat it too. |
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