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Posted: 2/22/2016 2:39:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I suppose it's a fair question. I was hoping it would be more people offering the reasons they believe he is the real deal rather than countering my issues with him. It is likewise hard to lay forth my issues without introducing my bias. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm going to start this thread as a sincere effort to allow Trump supporters to convince me that he is the man for the job. It is no surprise to anyone that I despise the guy, and at this moment have no intention of voting for him. His history speaks volumes, and in my view he has done nothing to pro e his change is genuine. So I'm placing much more emphasis on his track record than his current rhetoric and policy papers. So I'm asking you to provide me with evidence tht he has sincerely changed. To prove that I'm not BSing, or looking to start a debate. I'm going to o my best to refrain from countering arguments offered up by the Trump camp. I reserve the right to ask clarifying questions, but I'm not looking to push back, and I respectfully request that Trump opponents refrain from arguing with the Trump supporters. There are plenty of threads for that. I've said my vote has to be earned, and if that's the standard I'm holding candidates to, it's only right that I afford them the chance. So, I'm going to sit back, and read what I hope are thoughtful, and perhaps convincing, arguments to back Trump should he get the nomination. Thank you. And again, I'm asking the Trump opponents not to engage in a back and forth debate. Sincere effort to be convinced to support someone you despise.... ????...mutually exclusive...love to give you the benefit of the doubt but you be trollin. This. Some background on the reasons why you despise him might be helpful. I also don't see the problem with a debate, as if it's some kind of thing to be avoided. I guess keeping it civil can be a problem. I suppose it's a fair question. I was hoping it would be more people offering the reasons they believe he is the real deal rather than countering my issues with him. It is likewise hard to lay forth my issues without introducing my bias. Here ya go, welcome to Rangerette land- I don't believe you. You've been a vocal Trump basher for months now and I don't think you've just had some kind of epiphany and could possibly have a different perspective/outlook. Nobody can do that. Nobody "changes" their mind like that, something is fucky. Somebody probably coached you on what to write in your post because your past record of posts don't follow along these lines. Not even a good liar but I'm sure you'll get some ill-informed people to fall for it. Sheep are stupid. You WANT people on here to believe you've changed and are now willing to at least listen but you're just doing it to please yourself and show how much you can jack people around and dupe them, like any other narcissist. Nice try, slick. You probably don't even own any guns but now I'm sure you'll come back & say you've owned them for years.  Nobody believes you. Next you'll be saying the 2nd A is important to you! Yeah, right. Since when, yesterday?  Next you'll be shitting out that you are an NRA member and that you sons hunt.  What's your screen name over at DU? Are you going to try another fast one & say you don't even have an account over there? Listen up, we're not that stupid, go ply your cheap wares to the gullible people, the ones you can dupe into trusting you. We call the idiots that believe your drivel "Rangerettes" and it shows everyone else how much of a loser anyone who believes you is and how pathetic they are. Nobody could ever change that quickly, you're lying and we're not going to let you and your Rangerettes drive this website into the ground. We're smarter than everyone else and we just don't trust you. You're probably just a bored billionaire. Bye, bye.
There, how did I do? Are you pickin' up what I'm putting down with the screed above? I believe Trump got disgusted with our leaders and loves this country. NOTHING he can say or do would ever be good enough to convince some people. We need a Trump to clean this shit up, NOW. If he's a lying sack of shit, fuck be upon him. But if he's not... 
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Posted: 2/22/2016 2:42:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We need to do a lot of things. You have children? I do. I feel bad for them. It's funny when reading about the Roman Empire in it's later stages, especially when it comes to inflation. I feel like we're in Rome going into fast forward of how quick we're driving our economy into the ground. Eventually the spigot will have to be turned off then it will just be the poor and rich. That's how we got the dark ages. 
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Trump saying he supported the politicians and positions he did because he is a businessman buying favors is valid and believable - I occasionally keep my mouth shut when people with power over me discuss beliefs I disagree with. Though he largely avoids specifics while speaking, the position papers on his website are pretty solid. The immigration situation is one of the largest threats to our sovereignty (and should have been addressed many years ago), and it still wouldn't talked about (or at least beyond lip service) if Trump didn't make it a major part of his platform. Trump is a successful very business man, and government needs to be run like a business. He claims to be conservative* *I don't believe he's telling the truth which is why I won't vote for him. I just wanted to play devil's advocate to spur some discussion. That's the boat I'm in. I can make excuses, or validate, every problem I have with him. But the sheer volume of mental gymnastics I have to play to do so is overwhelming. We must do something about immigration, on this I'm with him 100%. We need to do a lot of things. You have children? I do. I feel bad for them. It's funny when reading about the Roman Empire in it's later stages, especially when it comes to inflation. I feel like we're in Rome going into fast forward of how quick we're driving our economy into the ground. Eventually the spigot will have to be turned off then it will just be the poor and rich. That's how we got the dark ages.
My wife and I married late in life, children are not in the cards... For that I am thankful. I think things are going to get very bad in our lifetime, both globally and nationally. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 2:47:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here ya go, welcome to Rangerette land- I don't believe you. You've been a vocal Trump basher for months now and I don't think you've just had some kind of epiphany and could possibly have a different perspective/outlook. Nobody can do that. Nobody "changes" their mind like that, something is fucky. Somebody probably coached you on what to write in your post because your past record of posts don't follow along these lines. Not even a good liar but I'm sure you'll get some ill-informed people to fall for it. Sheep are stupid. You WANT people on here to believe you've changed and are now willing to at least listen but you're just doing it to please yourself and show how much you can jack people around and dupe them, like any other narcissist. Nice try, slick. You probably don't even own any guns but now I'm sure you'll come back & say you've owned them for years. Nobody believes you. Next you'll be saying the 2nd A is important to you! Yeah, right. Since when, yesterday? Next you'll be shitting out that you are an NRA member and that you sons hunt. What's your screen name over at DU? Are you going to try another fast one & say you don't even have an account over there? Listen up, we're not that stupid, go ply your cheap wares to the gullible people, the ones you can dupe into trusting you. We call the idiots that believe your drivel "Rangerettes" and it shows everyone else how much of a loser anyone who believes you is and how pathetic they are. Nobody could ever change that quickly, you're lying and we're not going to let you and your Rangerettes drive this website into the ground. We're smarter than everyone else and we just don't trust you. You're probably just a bored billionaire. Bye, bye.
There, how did I do? Are you pickin' up what I'm putting down with the screed above? I believe Trump got disgusted with our leaders and loves this country. NOTHING he can say or do would ever be good enough to convince some people. We need a Trump to clean this shit up, NOW. If he's a lying sack of shit, fuck be upon him. But if he's not... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I'm going to start this thread as a sincere effort to allow Trump supporters to convince me that he is the man for the job. It is no surprise to anyone that I despise the guy, and at this moment have no intention of voting for him. His history speaks volumes, and in my view he has done nothing to pro e his change is genuine. So I'm placing much more emphasis on his track record than his current rhetoric and policy papers. So I'm asking you to provide me with evidence tht he has sincerely changed. To prove that I'm not BSing, or looking to start a debate. I'm going to o my best to refrain from countering arguments offered up by the Trump camp. I reserve the right to ask clarifying questions, but I'm not looking to push back, and I respectfully request that Trump opponents refrain from arguing with the Trump supporters. There are plenty of threads for that. I've said my vote has to be earned, and if that's the standard I'm holding candidates to, it's only right that I afford them the chance. So, I'm going to sit back, and read what I hope are thoughtful, and perhaps convincing, arguments to back Trump should he get the nomination. Thank you. And again, I'm asking the Trump opponents not to engage in a back and forth debate. Sincere effort to be convinced to support someone you despise.... ????...mutually exclusive...love to give you the benefit of the doubt but you be trollin. This. Some background on the reasons why you despise him might be helpful. I also don't see the problem with a debate, as if it's some kind of thing to be avoided. I guess keeping it civil can be a problem. I suppose it's a fair question. I was hoping it would be more people offering the reasons they believe he is the real deal rather than countering my issues with him. It is likewise hard to lay forth my issues without introducing my bias. Here ya go, welcome to Rangerette land- I don't believe you. You've been a vocal Trump basher for months now and I don't think you've just had some kind of epiphany and could possibly have a different perspective/outlook. Nobody can do that. Nobody "changes" their mind like that, something is fucky. Somebody probably coached you on what to write in your post because your past record of posts don't follow along these lines. Not even a good liar but I'm sure you'll get some ill-informed people to fall for it. Sheep are stupid. You WANT people on here to believe you've changed and are now willing to at least listen but you're just doing it to please yourself and show how much you can jack people around and dupe them, like any other narcissist. Nice try, slick. You probably don't even own any guns but now I'm sure you'll come back & say you've owned them for years. Nobody believes you. Next you'll be saying the 2nd A is important to you! Yeah, right. Since when, yesterday? Next you'll be shitting out that you are an NRA member and that you sons hunt. What's your screen name over at DU? Are you going to try another fast one & say you don't even have an account over there? Listen up, we're not that stupid, go ply your cheap wares to the gullible people, the ones you can dupe into trusting you. We call the idiots that believe your drivel "Rangerettes" and it shows everyone else how much of a loser anyone who believes you is and how pathetic they are. Nobody could ever change that quickly, you're lying and we're not going to let you and your Rangerettes drive this website into the ground. We're smarter than everyone else and we just don't trust you. You're probably just a bored billionaire. Bye, bye.
There, how did I do? Are you pickin' up what I'm putting down with the screed above? I believe Trump got disgusted with our leaders and loves this country. NOTHING he can say or do would ever be good enough to convince some people. We need a Trump to clean this shit up, NOW. If he's a lying sack of shit, fuck be upon him. But if he's not... Except your premise is wrong. I remain opposed to Trump, I have not changed my mind. Odds are I will not. If somebody can make a solid argument, I could at best take a bite out of the sandwich again... Just like I did with McCain and Romney. But you've done a wonderful job of laying out the reasons why I have issues with Trump, |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 2:49:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My wife and I married late in life, children are not in the cards... For that I am thankful. I think things are going to get very bad in our lifetime, both globally and nationally. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Trump saying he supported the politicians and positions he did because he is a businessman buying favors is valid and believable - I occasionally keep my mouth shut when people with power over me discuss beliefs I disagree with. Though he largely avoids specifics while speaking, the position papers on his website are pretty solid. The immigration situation is one of the largest threats to our sovereignty (and should have been addressed many years ago), and it still wouldn't talked about (or at least beyond lip service) if Trump didn't make it a major part of his platform. Trump is a successful very business man, and government needs to be run like a business. He claims to be conservative* *I don't believe he's telling the truth which is why I won't vote for him. I just wanted to play devil's advocate to spur some discussion. That's the boat I'm in. I can make excuses, or validate, every problem I have with him. But the sheer volume of mental gymnastics I have to play to do so is overwhelming. We must do something about immigration, on this I'm with him 100%. We need to do a lot of things. You have children? I do. I feel bad for them. It's funny when reading about the Roman Empire in it's later stages, especially when it comes to inflation. I feel like we're in Rome going into fast forward of how quick we're driving our economy into the ground. Eventually the spigot will have to be turned off then it will just be the poor and rich. That's how we got the dark ages.
My wife and I married late in life, children are not in the cards... For that I am thankful. I think things are going to get very bad in our lifetime, both globally and nationally. We're due, but I don't believe it will be in our lifetimes, unless some unexpected disaster happens, but we're pushing for it. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 2:50:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except your premise is wrong. I remain opposed to Trump, I have not changed my mind. Odds are I will not. If somebody can make a solid argument, I could at best take a bite out of the sandwich again... Just like I did with McCain and Romney. But you've done a wonderful job of laying out the reasons why I have issues with Trump, I was thinking the same thing.
However I said the only person I wouldn't pull the handle for would have been Christie, or Jeb. I'll roll the dice for Trump, but I believe the odds are not in my favor. However, I've been lucky before when the odds were low. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 2:54:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My wife and I married late in life, children are not in the cards... For that I am thankful. I think things are going to get very bad in our lifetime, both globally and nationally. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Trump saying he supported the politicians and positions he did because he is a businessman buying favors is valid and believable - I occasionally keep my mouth shut when people with power over me discuss beliefs I disagree with. Though he largely avoids specifics while speaking, the position papers on his website are pretty solid. The immigration situation is one of the largest threats to our sovereignty (and should have been addressed many years ago), and it still wouldn't talked about (or at least beyond lip service) if Trump didn't make it a major part of his platform. Trump is a successful very business man, and government needs to be run like a business. He claims to be conservative* *I don't believe he's telling the truth which is why I won't vote for him. I just wanted to play devil's advocate to spur some discussion. That's the boat I'm in. I can make excuses, or validate, every problem I have with him. But the sheer volume of mental gymnastics I have to play to do so is overwhelming. We must do something about immigration, on this I'm with him 100%. We need to do a lot of things. You have children? I do. I feel bad for them. It's funny when reading about the Roman Empire in it's later stages, especially when it comes to inflation. I feel like we're in Rome going into fast forward of how quick we're driving our economy into the ground. Eventually the spigot will have to be turned off then it will just be the poor and rich. That's how we got the dark ages.
My wife and I married late in life, children are not in the cards... For that I am thankful. I think things are going to get very bad in our lifetime, both globally and nationally. If our ancestors had stopped having children every time things got tough, none of us would be here. Not bashing your specific situation. As you noted, you play the hand you are dealt. I am going to call-out the mindset that it is fortunate to not have children, though. It is short-sighted, and evaluates life only from the perspective of ease. Hard times are ahead. Great men are forged in hard times. Opportunities are opened in hard times. For every fall of Rome, there is the birth of the Viking Age. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 2:57:46 AM EDT
[#7]
Ill go..
Trump is a strong alpha type personality. He may be able to get stuff done by intimidation alone. Go against trump? Dog ends up in a can. lol. That goes a bit far but you know what i mean. I think some things you can count on Trump is to secure the border, end sanctuary cities, and enforce deportation on contact w/ law enforcement. I don't believe he would outright attack 2a rights but would not expect gun laws to improve like under cruz (national right to CC, NFA de-reg, etc.). I can see him aggressively going after the things he doesn't like. Hopefully it's the socialists, but he doesn't really bad mouth them much at this stage. MEMES would be plentiful with any agenda item he would be pushing so it would be entertaining. Their are some major flaws with him but it's sort of a "vote for it to see whats in it" kind of deal. I would expect his temper to get the best of him in a number of situations. Make new enemies but maybe make some new allies. I am not a Trump supporter but this is the best I could come up with in my own reflections. All aboard. choo choo.
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Posted: 2/22/2016 2:58:58 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If our ancestors had stopped having children every time things got tough, none of us would be here. Not bashing your specific situation. As you noted, you play the hand you are dealt. I am going to call-out the mindset that it is fortunate to not have children, though. It is short-sighted, and evaluates life only from the perspective of ease. Hard times are ahead. Great men are forged in hard times. Opportunities are opened in hard times. For every fall of Rome, there is the birth of the Viking Age. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Trump saying he supported the politicians and positions he did because he is a businessman buying favors is valid and believable - I occasionally keep my mouth shut when people with power over me discuss beliefs I disagree with. Though he largely avoids specifics while speaking, the position papers on his website are pretty solid. The immigration situation is one of the largest threats to our sovereignty (and should have been addressed many years ago), and it still wouldn't talked about (or at least beyond lip service) if Trump didn't make it a major part of his platform. Trump is a successful very business man, and government needs to be run like a business. He claims to be conservative* *I don't believe he's telling the truth which is why I won't vote for him. I just wanted to play devil's advocate to spur some discussion. That's the boat I'm in. I can make excuses, or validate, every problem I have with him. But the sheer volume of mental gymnastics I have to play to do so is overwhelming. We must do something about immigration, on this I'm with him 100%. We need to do a lot of things. You have children? I do. I feel bad for them. It's funny when reading about the Roman Empire in it's later stages, especially when it comes to inflation. I feel like we're in Rome going into fast forward of how quick we're driving our economy into the ground. Eventually the spigot will have to be turned off then it will just be the poor and rich. That's how we got the dark ages.
My wife and I married late in life, children are not in the cards... For that I am thankful. I think things are going to get very bad in our lifetime, both globally and nationally. If our ancestors had stopped having children every time things got tough, none of us would be here. Not bashing your specific situation. As you noted, you play the hand you are dealt. I am going to call-out the mindset that it is fortunate to not have children, though. It is short-sighted, and evaluates life only from the perspective of ease. Hard times are ahead. Great men are forged in hard times. Opportunities are opened in hard times. For every fall of Rome, there is the birth of the Viking Age. That's a lot of death. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 3:01:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If our ancestors had stopped having children every time things got tough, none of us would be here. Not bashing your specific situation. As you noted, you play the hand you are dealt. I am going to call-out the mindset that it is fortunate to not have children, though. It is short-sighted, and evaluates life only from the perspective of ease. Hard times are ahead. Great men are forged in hard times. Opportunities are opened in hard times. For every fall of Rome, there is the birth of the Viking Age. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Trump saying he supported the politicians and positions he did because he is a businessman buying favors is valid and believable - I occasionally keep my mouth shut when people with power over me discuss beliefs I disagree with. Though he largely avoids specifics while speaking, the position papers on his website are pretty solid. The immigration situation is one of the largest threats to our sovereignty (and should have been addressed many years ago), and it still wouldn't talked about (or at least beyond lip service) if Trump didn't make it a major part of his platform. Trump is a successful very business man, and government needs to be run like a business. He claims to be conservative* *I don't believe he's telling the truth which is why I won't vote for him. I just wanted to play devil's advocate to spur some discussion. That's the boat I'm in. I can make excuses, or validate, every problem I have with him. But the sheer volume of mental gymnastics I have to play to do so is overwhelming. We must do something about immigration, on this I'm with him 100%. We need to do a lot of things. You have children? I do. I feel bad for them. It's funny when reading about the Roman Empire in it's later stages, especially when it comes to inflation. I feel like we're in Rome going into fast forward of how quick we're driving our economy into the ground. Eventually the spigot will have to be turned off then it will just be the poor and rich. That's how we got the dark ages.
My wife and I married late in life, children are not in the cards... For that I am thankful. I think things are going to get very bad in our lifetime, both globally and nationally. If our ancestors had stopped having children every time things got tough, none of us would be here. Not bashing your specific situation. As you noted, you play the hand you are dealt. I am going to call-out the mindset that it is fortunate to not have children, though. It is short-sighted, and evaluates life only from the perspective of ease. Hard times are ahead. Great men are forged in hard times. Opportunities are opened in hard times. For every fall of Rome, there is the birth of the Viking Age. We married in our mid 40s, having children when she has never had them before would be unwise - especially given some genetic health issues she has (her mother passed at the age of 40 from the condition, and my wife carries the genetic marker). In terms of her health, and finances, it's better that we don't have children, that was what I meant. If we were 10-15 years younger we most assuredly would have had them. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 3:03:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're due, but I don't believe it will be in our lifetimes, unless some unexpected disaster happens, but we're pushing for it. I agree. We're witnessing the twilight, but night is probably 80+ years away. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 3:05:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree. We're witnessing the twilight, but night is probably 80+ years away. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We're due, but I don't believe it will be in our lifetimes, unless some unexpected disaster happens, but we're pushing for it. I agree. We're witnessing the twilight, but night is probably 80+ years away. Winter is coming my sweet summer child.
On that note, it's 2:05am and I'm off to bed. Thank you to those who kept to the spirit of the thread, it is appreciated. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 3:06:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Hiram, I'll go the other way. Convince me he's not genuine. Everything I see from the 80s is the same stuff he's saying now. Is it because he donated to democrats? Took a picture with the Clinton's? What?
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Posted: 2/22/2016 3:06:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We married in our mid 40s, having children when she has never had them before would be unwise - especially given some genetic health issues she has (her mother passed at the age of 40 from the condition, and my wife carries the genetic marker). In terms of her health, and finances, it's better that we don't have children, that was what I meant. If we were 10-15 years younger we most assuredly would have had them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We must do something about immigration, on this I'm with him 100%. We need to do a lot of things. You have children? I do. I feel bad for them. It's funny when reading about the Roman Empire in it's later stages, especially when it comes to inflation. I feel like we're in Rome going into fast forward of how quick we're driving our economy into the ground. Eventually the spigot will have to be turned off then it will just be the poor and rich. That's how we got the dark ages.
My wife and I married late in life, children are not in the cards... For that I am thankful. I think things are going to get very bad in our lifetime, both globally and nationally. If our ancestors had stopped having children every time things got tough, none of us would be here. Not bashing your specific situation. As you noted, you play the hand you are dealt. I am going to call-out the mindset that it is fortunate to not have children, though. It is short-sighted, and evaluates life only from the perspective of ease. Hard times are ahead. Great men are forged in hard times. Opportunities are opened in hard times. For every fall of Rome, there is the birth of the Viking Age. We married in our mid 40s, having children when she has never had them before would be unwise - especially given some genetic health issues she has (her mother passed at the age of 40 from the condition, and my wife carries the genetic marker). In terms of her health, and finances, it's better that we don't have children, that was what I meant. If we were 10-15 years younger we most assuredly would have had them. Understood, and much respect. Again, we play the hands we are dealt. I simply do my best to encourage the birth of new generations. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 3:17:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Here's how I see it. There are really only two ways a Trump presidency goes; either so good that you'll regret it if you didn't vote for him or so poorly that it'll hasten the fall of the government.
Personally, either way, I'm strangely comfortable. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 3:41:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except your premise is wrong. I remain opposed to Trump, I have not changed my mind. Odds are I will not. If somebody can make a solid argument, I could at best take a bite out of the sandwich again... Just like I did with McCain and Romney. But you've done a wonderful job of laying out the reasons why I have issues with Trump, Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going to start this thread as a sincere effort to allow Trump supporters to convince me that he is the man for the job. It is no surprise to anyone that I despise the guy, and at this moment have no intention of voting for him. His history speaks volumes, and in my view he has done nothing to pro e his change is genuine. So I'm placing much more emphasis on his track record than his current rhetoric and policy papers. So I'm asking you to provide me with evidence tht he has sincerely changed. To prove that I'm not BSing, or looking to start a debate. I'm going to o my best to refrain from countering arguments offered up by the Trump camp. I reserve the right to ask clarifying questions, but I'm not looking to push back, and I respectfully request that Trump opponents refrain from arguing with the Trump supporters. There are plenty of threads for that. I've said my vote has to be earned, and if that's the standard I'm holding candidates to, it's only right that I afford them the chance. So, I'm going to sit back, and read what I hope are thoughtful, and perhaps convincing, arguments to back Trump should he get the nomination. Thank you. And again, I'm asking the Trump opponents not to engage in a back and forth debate. I suppose it's a fair question. I was hoping it would be more people offering the reasons they believe he is the real deal rather than countering my issues with him. It is likewise hard to lay forth my issues without introducing my bias. Here ya go, welcome to Rangerette land- I don't believe you. You've been a vocal Trump basher for months now and I don't think you've just had some kind of epiphany and could possibly have a different perspective/outlook. Nobody can do that. Nobody "changes" their mind like that, something is fucky. Somebody probably coached you on what to write in your post because your past record of posts don't follow along these lines. Not even a good liar but I'm sure you'll get some ill-informed people to fall for it. Sheep are stupid. You WANT people on here to believe you've changed and are now willing to at least listen but you're just doing it to please yourself and show how much you can jack people around and dupe them, like any other narcissist. Nice try, slick. You probably don't even own any guns but now I'm sure you'll come back & say you've owned them for years. Nobody believes you. Next you'll be saying the 2nd A is important to you! Yeah, right. Since when, yesterday? Next you'll be shitting out that you are an NRA member and that you sons hunt. What's your screen name over at DU? Are you going to try another fast one & say you don't even have an account over there? Listen up, we're not that stupid, go ply your cheap wares to the gullible people, the ones you can dupe into trusting you. We call the idiots that believe your drivel "Rangerettes" and it shows everyone else how much of a loser anyone who believes you is and how pathetic they are. Nobody could ever change that quickly, you're lying and we're not going to let you and your Rangerettes drive this website into the ground. We're smarter than everyone else and we just don't trust you. You're probably just a bored billionaire. Bye, bye.
There, how did I do? Are you pickin' up what I'm putting down with the screed above? I believe Trump got disgusted with our leaders and loves this country. NOTHING he can say or do would ever be good enough to convince some people. We need a Trump to clean this shit up, NOW. If he's a lying sack of shit, fuck be upon him. But if he's not... Except your premise is wrong. I remain opposed to Trump, I have not changed my mind. Odds are I will not. If somebody can make a solid argument, I could at best take a bite out of the sandwich again... Just like I did with McCain and Romney. But you've done a wonderful job of laying out the reasons why I have issues with Trump, Sigh, I know you remain opposed to Trump/not changed your mind. But, my outlandish post/point was, IF you did and tried to explain it and people just dog-piled on you and twisted every explaination you tried to present and/or accused you of being dishonest either then or now, how would you accomplish that? You couldn't. He can't. It's impossible. No amount of "position papers," statements or discussions will stand up to, "I don't believe you." What could he possibly do to change your mind? Name some things he could say at a press conference tomorrow to make you reevaluate your reticence. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 3:52:05 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's how I see it. There are really only two ways a Trump presidency goes; either so good that you'll regret it if you didn't vote for him or so poorly that it'll hasten the fall of the government. Personally, either way, I'm strangely comfortable. Here's how I interpreted your post "If we bet the house and children and win we'll have it made, if we lose though, it was just a house and our children. Less payments am I right?"
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Posted: 2/22/2016 3:52:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Clinton, Sanders, Amnesty are enough reasons for me. I would much rather take my chances with Trump. Voting for the lesser of two evils sucks, but sometimes it a necessary evil to have to do it.
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Posted: 2/22/2016 3:57:47 AM EDT
[#18]
Two pages. Not a single attempt.  |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 4:07:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two pages. Not a single attempt. I'm a Cruz fan, but he's done some shady stuff that I'm in disagreeance with, but out of all the republican nominees I feel he would follow the constitution compared to the rest of them. If you think otherwise then you're no different then the Trumpeteers who champion Trump on here. That's the thing about being a true conservative, a believer in the Constitution, and what our founding fathers believed in. Trust no one who seeks power, and give the power to the individual. You'd be wise to understand that, a long with everyone else on these forums. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 4:10:45 AM EDT
[#20]
Simple. I'm voting Cruz in the primary. If Trump makes the ballot in the general, I'm voting for him. No vote = Hilary or Bernie for pres. I hate parasites, so I'm not no-voting to help them. If you like parasites, then stand your misguided moral high ground and don't vote. And may many f*cks be upon you.
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Posted: 2/22/2016 4:22:16 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Simple. I'm voting Cruz in the primary. If Trump makes the ballot in the general, I'm voting for him. No vote = Hilary or Bernie for pres. I hate parasites, so I'm not no-voting to help them. If you like parasites, then stand your misguided moral high ground and don't vote. And may many f*cks be upon you. In the end this, but at the same time Trump may be that guy who runs things like a Hillary or Bernie. He did say national security comes before the Constitution. He loves the Constitution, but got to take care of national security first. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 4:28:55 AM EDT
[#22]
You're in NY. Vote Republican. Vote Democratic . Vote third party. Write in Mickey Mouse. It doesn't matter in the slightest. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 4:34:36 AM EDT
[#23]
I'll give it a go. If you have worked with the GOP in depth for any length of time you will realize that they are for the most part a pandering bunch of old skirt chasing drunks that don't give a fuck about your guns or Jesus. The main criticism seems to be that Trump may not be sincere on his proposed policy or stances. I would like to see an example of a presidential candidate or GOP leader NOT doing that to a greater extent. Republicans yuck it up with Democrats all the time, even after they just told a bunch of old ladies in a Baptist church otherwise to get their campaign donations. I don't think Trump is an ideal candidate at all, but I would challenge you to find another GOP candidate that is so honest everyone knows he is an asshole instead of finding it out later or never finding out because they keep their true feelings about the little people behind closed doors. Trump is a pompous ass, but he isn't of the same cloth as the Bushes, Mittens, Rove, or even Cruz. He is a politician by the definition of running for office I suppose, but he isn't one of the DC crowd that would cover up for another congressman if they thought it would get them more votes or a better committee assignment. The GOP is full of good old boy scumbags, and it is time to send them packing.
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Posted: 2/22/2016 5:18:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two pages. Not a single attempt. It's difficult to use reason to persuade someone to adopt a position which you never used reason to adopt for yourself. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 5:21:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's difficult to use reason to persuade someone to adopt a position which you never used reason to adopt for yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Two pages. Not a single attempt. It's difficult to use reason to persuade someone to adopt a position which you never used reason to adopt for yourself. The hipster bumper-sticker quote of this decade to demonstrate self-professed intellectual superiority. The reasoning for supporting Trump is identical to your constantly repeated reasoning for supporting the "good terrorists" in Syria. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 5:31:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's difficult to use reason to persuade someone to adopt a position which you never used reason to adopt for yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Two pages. Not a single attempt. It's difficult to use reason to persuade someone to adopt a position which you never used reason to adopt for yourself. Deep. Hey, while you're here... Why don't you tell the folks your thoughts on building a wall. Hell, while you're at it, give them your views on illegal-immigration and the illegals already in this country. I guess I could just pull up some of your old posts but maybe you've changed your position on the matter. I hear there's a lot of that going around. 
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Posted: 2/22/2016 5:33:55 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's difficult to use reason to persuade someone to adopt a position which you never used reason to adopt for yourself. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 5:37:07 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Deep. Hey, while you're here... Why don't you tell the folks your thoughts on building a wall. Hell, while you're at it, give them your views on illegal-immigration and the illegals already in this country. I guess I could just pull up some of your old posts but maybe you've changed your position on the matter. I hear there's a lot of that going around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Two pages. Not a single attempt. It's difficult to use reason to persuade someone to adopt a position which you never used reason to adopt for yourself. Deep. Hey, while you're here... Why don't you tell the folks your thoughts on building a wall. Hell, while you're at it, give them your views on illegal-immigration and the illegals already in this country. I guess I could just pull up some of your old posts but maybe you've changed your position on the matter. I hear there's a lot of that going around. You're more than welcome to. Not sure why it would be relevent. Most of me detractors can't honestly report my stance in the same thread, let alone weeks or years later. That would be a interesting exercise, regardless. Alas, This is yet another thread about His Trumpness. We have Trump supporters starting several threads a day supporting Trump, and they can't exert the energy to articulate why. In this thread, we see obfuscation, redirection, and denial, but no willingness to engage in actual discussion of any substance. You know, sort of like how Trump's been running his campaign. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 5:39:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're more than welcome to. Not sure why it would be relevent. Most of me detractors can't honestly report my stance in the same thread, let alone weeks or years later. That would be a interesting exercise, regardless. Alas, This is yet another thread about His Trumpness. We have Trump supporters starting several threads a day supporting Trump, and they can't exert the energy to articulate why. In this thread, we see obfuscation, redirection, and denial, but no willingness to engage in actual discussion of any substance. You know, sort of like how Trump's been running his campaign.  |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 5:59:03 AM EDT
[#30]
OK OP, I will give it a go..I will share some interviews and info on Trump from over the years, some as early as 1988... read thru it.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usb0iE5WiZI https://thecorporateculture.com/2015/playboy-interviewed-donald-trump-25-years-ago/ http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Immigration.htm https://votesmart.org/public-statement/114/a-run-for-his-money-trump-discusses-his-candidacy-for-us-president-interview#.VsrbSMd4O9a http://www.ammoland.com/2015/07/donald-trump-talks-gun-control-assault-weapons-gun-free-zones/#axzz3zlW4nBQI That should get you going, some are on him in general and his political beliefs, some on his immigration ideas, some on guns, read thru them and ask away about it... |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 7:11:58 AM EDT
[#31]
1. Trump is smart enough to listen to the public and say what we want to hear. I look at him as he will continue to listen and hopefully we can mold him into a great president. The best presidents have always began life as a Democrat as do most people before seeing the light and becoming more conservative.
2. Voting against a candidate has always been a viable strategy. Essentially we have suffered the last 4 years due to the failure of several million Republicans to get off their asses and vote for Romney who would have been spectacular as president and selecting another conservative SC Justice. The blame rests solely on those who didn't vote. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 7:15:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hiram, I'll go the other way. Convince me he's not genuine. Everything I see from the 80s is the same stuff he's saying now. Is it because he donated to democrats? Took a picture with the Clinton's? What? https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/514786921198145536 http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/346374/did-you-know-terry-mcauliffe-took-25000-donald-trump Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 7:42:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1. Trump is smart enough to listen to the public and say what we want to hear. I look at him as he will continue to listen and hopefully we can mold him into a great president. The best presidents have always began life as a Democrat as do most people before seeing the light and becoming more conservative. 2. Voting against a candidate has always been a viable strategy. Essentially we have suffered the last 4 years due to the failure of several million Republicans to get off their asses and vote for Romney who would have been spectacular as president and selecting another conservative SC Justice. The blame rests solely on those who didn't vote. Well said sir, well said . . . . 
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Posted: 2/22/2016 9:12:00 AM EDT
[#34]
Vote Trump because someone will be President and there isn't a better choice.
The second choice would be Cruz. Carson won't fight back and the rest are more of the same. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 9:17:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Here's the way I look at it. (Disclaimer: despite my Trump avatar, I actually support Cruz first and Trump second.) I'm willing to take a gamble on Trump because I hate voting for the GOPe and he's the only other non-establishment candidate. My reasoning for supporting him is based on this question: what does he stand to gain by running? Remember: he's first and foremost a businessman - and a very successful one at that, therefore he's not in it for a salary bump. As a businessman, he's one of the people most affected by the growth of government and he's likely gotten to a point where he's sick of having to deal with bureaucrats on a daily basis...he's tired of playing their game and on their terms. Does his "record" prove that he's not what he's claiming to be? Not necessarily, IMO. He did what he had to do to succeed. I'm thinking that he just got tired of the bureaucratic bullshit and decided to throw his hat in the ring because he's at a point where he CAN. He's had to play PC for so long that he finally said "enough is enough" and he's going to try to change the game.
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Posted: 2/22/2016 9:48:00 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have admitted time and time again that I was wrong for telling people to vote the lessor of two evils. You weren't wrong. There is no sanctity of the vote. You must vote for the nominated R candidate. Failure to do so will result is more liberal bullshit being shoved down our throats. Hell, even voting for the R may end in the same result...as there's no guarantee the R will win. If you do stay home, and a democrat wins, please avoid complaining about the liberal agenda...you helped further its power. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 10:54:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hiram, I'll go the other way. Convince me he's not genuine. Everything I see from the 80s is the same stuff he's saying now. Is it because he donated to democrats? Took a picture with the Clinton's? What? https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/514786921198145536 http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/346374/did-you-know-terry-mcauliffe-took-25000-donald-trump Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile That's really the best you have? A businessman made a political donation and went to eat with that politician? Seriously? |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 11:08:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hiram, I'll go the other way. Convince me he's not genuine. Everything I see from the 80s is the same stuff he's saying now. Is it because he donated to democrats? Took a picture with the Clinton's? What? Not the point of this thread, and I've laid that all out before. So respectfully, no. I said I would not make this thread anti-Trump. If you wish to read my thoughts regarding Trumps shortcomings please refer to one of those threads. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 11:11:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sigh, I know you remain opposed to Trump/not changed your mind. But, my outlandish post/point was, IF you did and tried to explain it and people just dog-piled on you and twisted every explaination you tried to present and/or accused you of being dishonest either then or now, how would you accomplish that? You couldn't. He can't. It's impossible. No amount of "position papers," statements or discussions will stand up to, "I don't believe you." What could he possibly do to change your mind? Name some things he could say at a press conference tomorrow to make you reevaluate your reticence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going to start this thread as a sincere effort to allow Trump supporters to convince me that he is the man for the job. It is no surprise to anyone that I despise the guy, and at this moment have no intention of voting for him. His history speaks volumes, and in my view he has done nothing to pro e his change is genuine. So I'm placing much more emphasis on his track record than his current rhetoric and policy papers. So I'm asking you to provide me with evidence tht he has sincerely changed. To prove that I'm not BSing, or looking to start a debate. I'm going to o my best to refrain from countering arguments offered up by the Trump camp. I reserve the right to ask clarifying questions, but I'm not looking to push back, and I respectfully request that Trump opponents refrain from arguing with the Trump supporters. There are plenty of threads for that. I've said my vote has to be earned, and if that's the standard I'm holding candidates to, it's only right that I afford them the chance. So, I'm going to sit back, and read what I hope are thoughtful, and perhaps convincing, arguments to back Trump should he get the nomination. Thank you. And again, I'm asking the Trump opponents not to engage in a back and forth debate. I suppose it's a fair question. I was hoping it would be more people offering the reasons they believe he is the real deal rather than countering my issues with him. It is likewise hard to lay forth my issues without introducing my bias. Here ya go, welcome to Rangerette land- I don't believe you. You've been a vocal Trump basher for months now and I don't think you've just had some kind of epiphany and could possibly have a different perspective/outlook. Nobody can do that. Nobody "changes" their mind like that, something is fucky. Somebody probably coached you on what to write in your post because your past record of posts don't follow along these lines. Not even a good liar but I'm sure you'll get some ill-informed people to fall for it. Sheep are stupid. You WANT people on here to believe you've changed and are now willing to at least listen but you're just doing it to please yourself and show how much you can jack people around and dupe them, like any other narcissist. Nice try, slick. You probably don't even own any guns but now I'm sure you'll come back & say you've owned them for years. Nobody believes you. Next you'll be saying the 2nd A is important to you! Yeah, right. Since when, yesterday? Next you'll be shitting out that you are an NRA member and that you sons hunt. What's your screen name over at DU? Are you going to try another fast one & say you don't even have an account over there? Listen up, we're not that stupid, go ply your cheap wares to the gullible people, the ones you can dupe into trusting you. We call the idiots that believe your drivel "Rangerettes" and it shows everyone else how much of a loser anyone who believes you is and how pathetic they are. Nobody could ever change that quickly, you're lying and we're not going to let you and your Rangerettes drive this website into the ground. We're smarter than everyone else and we just don't trust you. You're probably just a bored billionaire. Bye, bye.
There, how did I do? Are you pickin' up what I'm putting down with the screed above? I believe Trump got disgusted with our leaders and loves this country. NOTHING he can say or do would ever be good enough to convince some people. We need a Trump to clean this shit up, NOW. If he's a lying sack of shit, fuck be upon him. But if he's not... Except your premise is wrong. I remain opposed to Trump, I have not changed my mind. Odds are I will not. If somebody can make a solid argument, I could at best take a bite out of the sandwich again... Just like I did with McCain and Romney. But you've done a wonderful job of laying out the reasons why I have issues with Trump, Sigh, I know you remain opposed to Trump/not changed your mind. But, my outlandish post/point was, IF you did and tried to explain it and people just dog-piled on you and twisted every explaination you tried to present and/or accused you of being dishonest either then or now, how would you accomplish that? You couldn't. He can't. It's impossible. No amount of "position papers," statements or discussions will stand up to, "I don't believe you." What could he possibly do to change your mind? Name some things he could say at a press conference tomorrow to make you reevaluate your reticence. It's not what he says, it's actions. If he has DONE things I'm not aware of... Things he did BEFORE running for president that DEMONSTRATE conservatism nd respect for the constitution. That would go a long way with me. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 11:13:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're in NY. Vote Republican. Vote Democratic . Vote third party. Write in Mickey Mouse. It doesn't matter in the slightest. Actually Trump could put NY in play. I had taken comfort in it NOT making a difference. But what if NY is in play? 
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Posted: 2/22/2016 11:16:06 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's difficult to use reason to persuade someone to adopt a position which you never used reason to adopt for yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Two pages. Not a single attempt. It's difficult to use reason to persuade someone to adopt a position which you never used reason to adopt for yourself. Guys, we see eye to eye on a lot of these issues. Can we keep the jabs out of this thread? |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 11:19:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if Trump IS the republican in the general? I will not vote for him in the primary, that's just not going to happen. We are talking about a hypothetical general election. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You don't have to vote for trump. Just vote for the Republican in the general election. What if Trump IS the republican in the general? I will not vote for him in the primary, that's just not going to happen. We are talking about a hypothetical general election. Seems simple to me. Either vote for the Republican or the Democrat. Which ever one is closest to your personal beliefs. Why is this so complicated for seemingly intelligent individuals? |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 11:47:41 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems simple to me. Either vote for the Republican or the Democrat. Which ever one is closest to your personal beliefs. Why is this so complicated for seemingly intelligent individuals? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You don't have to vote for trump. Just vote for the Republican in the general election. What if Trump IS the republican in the general? I will not vote for him in the primary, that's just not going to happen. We are talking about a hypothetical general election. Seems simple to me. Either vote for the Republican or the Democrat. Which ever one is closest to your personal beliefs. Why is this so complicated for seemingly intelligent individuals? If you disagree with the democrats 100%, agree with the republican 40%, and are dubious of that 40% due to his track record... Are you really better off voting just because they have an R after the name? At one point is it acceptable to bite from the shit sandwich, and at what point do you say fuck it I just can stomach it? |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 11:55:32 AM EDT
[#44]
President Trump would have some great effects just by being elected no matter what he does as president. By getting elected without the aide of donors or the RNC/DNC and with the full on opposition of the majority of the media he will have proved that it is possible. The conventional wisdom is that they are the kingmakers and you must have their blessings and dance to their tune. If someone manages to get into power despite their calling him a racist, sexist, buffoon, "automatically disqualified", that destroys much of their power and it sets an example for others to follow.
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Posted: 2/22/2016 12:02:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you disagree with the democrats 100%, agree with the republican 40%, and are dubious of that 40% due to his track record... Are you really better off voting just because they have an R after the name? At one point is it acceptable to bite from the shit sandwich, and at what point do you say fuck it I just can stomach it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Seems simple to me. Either vote for the Republican or the Democrat. Which ever one is closest to your personal beliefs. Why is this so complicated for seemingly intelligent individuals? If you disagree with the democrats 100%, agree with the republican 40%, and are dubious of that 40% due to his track record... Are you really better off voting just because they have an R after the name? At one point is it acceptable to bite from the shit sandwich, and at what point do you say fuck it I just can stomach it? See above in bold. *shrug* Seems simple to me. Not voting is unAmerican . 
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Posted: 2/22/2016 12:07:55 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's how I interpreted your post "If we bet the house and children and win we'll have it made, if we lose though, it was just a house and our children. Less payments am I right?" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's how I see it. There are really only two ways a Trump presidency goes; either so good that you'll regret it if you didn't vote for him or so poorly that it'll hasten the fall of the government. Personally, either way, I'm strangely comfortable. Here's how I interpreted your post "If we bet the house and children and win we'll have it made, if we lose though, it was just a house and our children. Less payments am I right?" Pretty much. Cruz is the best choice but it's becoming clear that Trump is most likely going to win. Which ever way it goes, this nation will deserve what it gets. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 12:11:12 PM EDT
[#47]
I will tell you why i voted for him.
The old saying of doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Voted republican GOP backed nominees "they were career politicians" most of my voting life and got fucked time and time again. When some one comes along that is not a career politicians they get my support. I am sick of the same old shit. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 12:16:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's really the best you have? A businessman made a political donation and went to eat with that politician? Seriously? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hiram, I'll go the other way. Convince me he's not genuine. Everything I see from the 80s is the same stuff he's saying now. Is it because he donated to democrats? Took a picture with the Clinton's? What? https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/514786921198145536 http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/346374/did-you-know-terry-mcauliffe-took-25000-donald-trump Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile That's really the best you have? A businessman made a political donation and went to eat with that politician? Seriously? The former DNC chairman is not just a "politician". When did Trump "wake up"? Was it after he endorsed a communist sanctuary city mayor in 2013? One would think he'd have been opposed to that if he's really the "we're gonna build a wall" guy he claims to be now. Why donate to Graham after his efforts with the Gang of Eight? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 12:19:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The former DNC chairman is not just a "politician". When did Trump "wake up"? Was it after he endorsed a communist sanctuary city mayor in 2013? One would think he'd have been opposed to that if he's really the "we're gonna build a wall" guy he claims to be now. Why donate to Graham after his efforts with the Gang of Eight? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I've contributed to a left-leaning organization in order to facilitate a business deal. Are you saying that I'm a liberal? |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 2:56:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not voting is unAmerican . I like to discourage others from voting....it makes my vote worth more
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