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Objectively?....how many diaries of soldiers that were in the war have you read? I didn't see
any "objectively" in them. I saw poor boys from both sides being thrown into a meat-grinder because some son of a----- wanted more money. Do you really think this war was about slavery? Then why wasn't it started by the millions of dark southerners that were enslaved? The actual words of the men involved all say something like "well, they killed darrel last week, so it's my turn now" You want to explain a man walking from Trinity Lousiana to West Virginia---WITH NO SHOES--and tell me he is fighting for the right to keep slaves......Do some research and realize that life ain't the newspapers and CNN.... |
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The fact that you used the word "Redneck" in this post, proves to me that you are just as racist as any KKK member, and yet you still point the finger of racism at the Confederate Flag.
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Quoted: No, what I'm saying is you must look at history objectively. The "North" isn't always right, but to make some of the claims about what the CSA stood for or did are just plainwrong, and not historically accurate. View Quote Well then, why don't you try looking at it objectively from the side of the Confederacy? If the "North" wasn't always right, then why is the "South" always wrong? Why can the Confederate flag, under no circumstances, be flown on government property? How do you know anything about what the Confederacy stood for if you only learned about it from a book? The Confederacy represented a way of life and that way of life is still alive and well and still being oppressed by northern aggression. Want an example? I can go outside everyday and see a Confederate flag flying. I see Confederate flag stickers and t-shirts all of the time and I live right outside Dallas, not out in the sticks somewhere. The south is still alive and well, and if all the northern states don't stop electing all of these idiots trying to ban flash hiders and all kinds of other stupid shit don't be surprised if the [b]free[/b] states try to break away again. You are the epitome of the northern attitudes that started the Civil War to begin with. |
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Quoted: Wow! Ummm..not quite. Let's dispell a few myths here shall we ? (1.) The process of Secession wasn't simply limited to State Legislatures but actual Referendums were held and voted upon by the people (More specifically: Free Men) in the Southern States. View Quote (2.) It is true (as it is now) that Wealthy families exerted a large influence on their state legislators. However, during the Secession Debates MOST Wealthy Slave owning families were OPOSSED to Secession. Instead it was people from the Upper-Middle Class and Middle Class who were pushing for secession. (3.) Taxes were a HUGE issue for Secession. Though in all fairness, the Secession Delegates sent to each State Legislature used tactics that were designed to manipulate the legislators Emotionally. And in the Seccession Debate Papers you can find numerous references of the Federal Government wanting to free black Slaves, give them voting rights AND abolish laws prohibiting interaccial marriages. To a Southernor at the time this was simply unacceptable. Because, Slave populations frequently exceeded white populations in some counties and slaves were illiterate and not thought of as being fully human. View Quote Also the memories of bloody slave revolts (such as the one led by Nat Turner) caused many of these legislators to vote for seccession out of fear. View Quote As to the causes of the Civil War, both sides are right. It was Slavery but it was also unfair Taxation and the encroachment by the Federal Government on State Governments Soveriegnity that led to the Civil War. View Quote See my 3/5's, 2/3's post the South wanted the benifits of slave labor, and to count slaves in the census for Congressional representation but didn't want to be taxed based on the same census. (4.) Many Rich Southern Families did indeed lose their sons on the battle field. Most of these families used their influence to get their son's spots as Commissioned Officers (primarily in the Calvery, since at that time it had the same sort of status as being an Fighter pilot is today). Calvery units frequently lead frontal assaults and were frequently slaughtered. Many of the Officers in the vanguard leading these charges were cut down by grape shot, volley fire and gatling gun fire. View Quote A final comment: The Stars and Bars should be flown on Civil War Cemetaries in addition to the Stars and Stripes. To do otherwise is to be intellectually dishonest about our history and culture. It is also an affront to those families whose ancestors fought and died in the Civil War. Also by NOT flying the Stars and Bars the wounds of racism and perceived racism by Blacks will take longer to heal. View Quote got me there |
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And people keep asking why Texas would ever want to leave the US-----Answer---so that people like OLY could be denied a visa.......
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Quoted: The fact that you used the word "Redneck" in this post, proves to me that you are just as racist as any KKK member, and yet you still point the finger of racism at the Confederate Flag. View Quote No I got called uneducated and attempted to respond humorously. (FYI rednecks are everywhere....... There is also a difference between prejudice and racism, if you learn what it is you may understand more of this disscussion) |
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Quoted: Read my posts, like where I say YOU as an individual can fly the CFB if you like.... There's a difference as to what you as an individual can do and what a branch of the gov't SHOULD do. View Quote Well, how nice of you to agree that I can fly whatever f*cking flag I would like. I'm thrilled that you endorse my right to free speech as endowed by the United States Constitution. I like how you bring up the UN attempting to be insulting and off topic. I could respond by saying something about the mismatched double wide you live in but that would be off topic...[;)] View Quote What, you mean like the little "redneck" comment you threw in a few posts back? So now you are the only one that can attempt to throw a jab? Go ahead an talk about the double wides, I don't care. It will only further show your ignorance in regards to the southern way of life. Just because you think everybody here drives a truck and lives in a trailer house doesn't make it true. Don't be pissed that your arguement is quickly falling apart and that there aren't any more "blue coats" showing up to back up your position. You can write a history book later that says you're right, and that's all that matters right? Screw the truth...isn't that right? You are a joke..... |
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Quoted: Objectively?....how many diaries of soldiers that were in the war have you read? I didn't see any "objectively" in them. I saw poor boys from both sides being thrown into a meat-grinder because some son of a----- wanted more money. View Quote Do you really think this war was about slavery? Then why wasn't it started by the millions of dark southerners that were enslaved? The actual words of the men involved all say something like "well, they killed darrel last week, so it's my turn now" View Quote You want to explain a man walking from Trinity Lousiana to West Virginia---WITH NO SHOES--and tell me he is fighting for the right to keep slaves......Do some research and realize that life ain't the newspapers and CNN.... View Quote In those days many the world was larger, most people never left the area where they were born. The Federal government was much smaller. Most people felt they were the citizen of a State that happened to be allied with other States. They didn't feel the were United States citizens, the were NC citizens and NC was part of the United States. Think about it, it is why R. E. Lee fought for Virginia. He felt allegiance to where he was born, and educated and grew up, and it was by God Virgina, not the United States. |
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Quoted: I fly my flag and anybody that don't like it can kiss my ass! The Feds,The cops,the old fart who lives on the corner,Some punkassed kids,You or anybody else, Just try and haul it down!! Amen, Brother. BTW, where in our great state are you? Mrs. 762 and myself are in Albuquerque. Long wave Old Glory!!!!!! View Quote |
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Quoted: No I got called uneducated and attempted to respond humorously. (FYI rednecks are everywhere....... There is also a difference between prejudice and racism, if you learn what it is you may understand more of this disscussion) View Quote No, you got call uneducated on the subject matter which is completely different than just uneducated. |
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Quoted: What the CSA style flags represented in 1861, and what they represent today are 2 different things. I think you have to take into account what they represent TODAY when deciding how, when, or where, they will be flown in an area controlled by the gov't. I think it is also sad that something like this even has to go to court. View Quote Welcome to the NEW AND IMPROVED U.S. of A. where everyone except young, white males has the inalienable right not to be offended. |
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Quoted: Quoted: The fact that you used the word "Redneck" in this post, proves to me that you are just as racist as any KKK member, and yet you still point the finger of racism at the Confederate Flag. View Quote No I got called uneducated and attempted to respond humorously. (FYI rednecks are everywhere....... There is also a difference between prejudice and racism, if you learn what it is you may understand more of this disscussion) View Quote |
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son of a--------both
Is this what you said about fort sumter? January 9--First overt act of war committed by Confederates by firing on and preventing the ship Star of the West from bringing reinforcements to Fort Sumter. Soldiers and supplies were concealed in the merchant steam vessel. Way of life?? yep everybody down here owned slaves....... States rights? you really can't be arguing against the rights of the states can you? I give you article X of the United States Constitution.....soundly thrashed by Honest Abe The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. |
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Quoted: son of a--------both View Quote Is this what you said about fort sumter? January 9--First overt act of war committed by Confederates by firing on and preventing the ship Star of the West from bringing reinforcements to Fort Sumter. Soldiers and supplies were concealed in the merchant steam vessel. View Quote Way of life?? yep everybody down here owned slaves....... View Quote States rights? you really can't be arguing against the rights of the states can you? View Quote I give you article X of the United States Constitution.....soundly thrashed by Honest Abe The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. View Quote [red]We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.[/red] Doesn't slavery violate the spirit of the Preamble of the Constitution. WE THE PEOPLE |
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I am going to ask this one more time? When are you and your northern compadres going to Somalia....if you and the other northern apologists are so hung up on slavery, why don't you stop it now?
Yes slavery was bad, and it was on its way out, Many bad things were done on both sides to black men.... blackorphange in Ohio burned to the ground-----Charleston...black slaves picking cotton within sight of a battle....no side was right in their actions.....ok? We the people? Oh you mean foreigners that may be living here? Rewind todays news and see how far "We the People" applies today....that is the whole point....if it is convenient for the people in power to trample that paper, then they will....using any pretense -slavery or terrorism! |
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Heritage, not Hate! Fly your flag high, and fly it proudly.
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Quoted: I am going to ask this one more time? When are you and your northern compadres going to Somalia....if you and the other northern apologists are so hung up on slavery, why don't you stop it now? Yes slavery was bad, and it was on its way out, Many bad things were done on both sides to black men.... blackorphange in Ohio burned to the ground-----Charleston...black slaves picking cotton within sight of a battle....no side was right in their actions.....ok? We the people? Oh you mean foreigners that may be living here? Rewind todays news and see how far "We the People" applies today....that is the whole point....if it is convenient for the people in power to trample that paper, then they will....using any pretense -slavery or terrorism! View Quote No I don't think that either side is faultless or that we as a people today are perfect or should see ourselves as morally superior. I also oppose the move to get Geo Washington's name off public buildings because he owned slaves. But when will I hear a southerner admit that one of the causes of the war was slavery, and that was based on racism?? It's disingenuous to say that slavery/racism was not a factor that led up to the Civil War, which is what the 2nd post in this thread said. I don't care that much about what is going on in Somalia, I do care about the US, history, and the truth. I don't know what exaclty a Northern apologist is, but when will we get through the "Southern Revisionists". You fired first, you tried to tear apart the US, you lost, now get over it. Tell me when you say "States Rights" what exactly does that refer to? Most of the conflicts between North and South seem indirectly or directly related to slavery and the economic gains of slavery. When others say "Taxation and Representation", don't they realize that has to do with the census and determining how slaves would be counted for those purposes, but it wasn't about slavery. If you think the North went to war due to slavery, that is also incorrect, in the end it was the biggest change but not what most people had on thier minds. Other issues included, were the addition of new States, Northeners didn't want any slave States admitted, before there was a parity system 1 new "free" State for each "slave" State admitted. The US was only going to accept "free" States. The US also banned the slave trade, again the South thought that was an encroachment on their "States Rights". The real problem was the South'e economy was expanding faster than the worker supply, any guesses what that relates to???? |
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Southern revisionists....I like that....yep you are right we lost...and so did all of the states in the union. We lost the right to tell washington to go to h311....I will freely admit that slavery was ONE of the rallying cries for the CV...but it weren't rascism. Negroes were not considered human....and why do you have a need to declare the south rascist? Ask a mick about New York or a chinese about San Fran or
a wop about Boston....The banning of the slave trade was an inroad on states rights....it may be wrong but the federales didn't have a legal leg to stand on.....just like the interstate commerce clause and multiple abuses of it today. That is the point, I reiterate, the same battle is being fought today and you seem to be on the wrong side...... |
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Quoted: Southern revisionists....I like that....yep you are right we lost...and so did all of the states in the union. View Quote We lost the right to tell washington to go to h311....I will freely admit that slavery was ONE of the rallying cries for the CV...but it weren't rascism. Negroes were not considered human....and why do you have a need to declare the south rascist? View Quote Ask a mick about New York or a chinese about San Fran or a wop about Boston.... View Quote The banning of the slave trade was an inroad on states rights....it may be wrong but the federales didn't have a legal leg to stand on..... View Quote just like the interstate commerce clause and multiple abuses of it today. That is the point, I reiterate, the same battle is being fought today and you seem to be on the wrong side...... View Quote Well if you say that the US Gov't has used things like road construction money to make all states adopt seat belt laws, or soon DUI standards of .08 through a "back door" yes I agree they are over reaching. But the US should be able to regulate stuff like FDA meds, or make sure the food supply is safe for all US citizens. I think that if the seccesion had not have happened slavery would have lasted a lot longer. The CSA pushed the issue and fired on a US fort. There wouldn't have been support for a war in the Norht if that didn't happen. The North would not have had the political will to end slavery without the war. Once war was on Lincoln was reluctant to "end slavery". It seems he wanted the US back together, and didn't like slavery, but I'm not sure he would have ended it in areas where it already was. |
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ah he just won't quit......
stronger? buddy here's a beer and you are off your flipping rocker...giving government the go ahead to trample the rights of the people is wrong in any situation...period. States do make their own rules....ever seen a state constitution? (sarcasm alert) Their ya go with the rascist thing again....me saying I don't like black terriers is not racist...it may be prejudiced and wrong but it aint racist.....and africans were not seen as people....just like Afghani's today Yep property of people is wrong...but I gave you examples of racism, what didn't you like? FDA? oh yeah buddy It takes 802 MILLION dollars to get a drug into production...the Gov't is doing a great job....food supply? and where,in the enumerated powers of the Federal government, are they responsible for food?.....are you going to say general welfare? I know, why don't you move into government housing and live off the dole and kiss the hand that oppresses you.... |
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Quoted: ah he just won't quit...... stronger? buddy here's a beer and you are off your flipping rocker... View Quote giving government the go ahead to trample the rights of the people is wrong in any situation...period. View Quote States do make their own rules....ever seen a state constitution? (sarcasm alert) View Quote Their ya go with the rascist thing again....me saying I don't like black terriers is not racist...it may be prejudiced and wrong but it aint racist.....and africans were not seen as people....just like Afghani's today Yep property of people is wrong... View Quote but I gave you examples of racism, what didn't you like? FDA? oh yeah buddy It takes 802 MILLION dollars to get a drug into production... View Quote the Gov't is doing a great job....food supply? and where,in the enumerated powers of the Federal government, are they responsible for food?.....are you going to say general welfare? I know, why don't you move into government housing and live off the dole and kiss the hand that oppresses you.... View Quote |
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My last post was a little strong....here sit on the veranda and have a mint julep....I do not understand the urge to label Southrons as racist.....yep they were...and so was or is every one else in the whole world...why are southerners picked out for this? And why in the world does every one below the mason-dixon have to be assumed to be racist to this day? Are all east germans Nazi's?
And FDA ---FEDERAL DRUG ADMINISTRATION? isn't that funny to you....that's like gang enforcement----ok officer i will join a gang... Imagine if cars were regulated like drugs....one model every ten years that cost 100,000 dollars and couldn't be used while driving...? Really think about that for a minute..... |
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Quoted: My last post was a little strong....here sit on the veranda and have a mint julep.... View Quote I do not understand the urge to label Southrons as racist.....yep they were...and so was or is every one else in the whole world...why are southerners picked out for this? View Quote And why in the world does every one below the mason-dixon have to be assumed to be racist to this day? View Quote Are all east germans Nazi's? View Quote And FDA ---FEDERAL DRUG ADMINISTRATION? isn't that funny to you....that's like gang enforcement----ok officer i will join a gang... Imagine if cars were regulated like drugs....one model every ten years that cost 100,000 dollars and couldn't be used while driving...? Really think about that for a minute..... View Quote |
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But I think I, and many others would feel better if there was some admission that slavery was evil-----why and here it is....slavery is evil.
Happy....of course it is evil dufus....even david duke said it was bad...who have you been listening to? FDA----17,600 deaths attributed to prozac alone, I think that word of mouth would be better in this, as compared to a Gov't approved and released drug....... Side effects---aspartame....holes in the brain and large tumors----yep the FDA removed these facts from the released tests...good job |
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Ha! The mobile home was invented in Marshfield Wisconsin..
Both sides of my family fought in the Civil War for Georgia and Wis...of course the commies from Madison and their larva will always disagree and side with the likes of Jesse "the poverty pimp" Jackson and Al sharpton and the Southern Poverty Law Center and the ACLU and People for the American Way The Separation of Church and State The Gay Agenda and They all scapegoat Southern families..(thanks Neil Young)...The hatred of the stars and bars is purely racist at its liberal greasy heart...please dont blame Wisconsinites the commies seem to live below State Hwy 21 or gravitate towards the Chicago enclaves in the tourist areas of the north and hang arround the college towns...we red necks tend to ignore their rants and their BS ways and suffer under their BS legislation...Of course we tend to be the ones who actually go to war and carry a rifle...while they tend to be protestors when its their turn under the gun and then hawks when they are no longer of age to do their own fighting...and push the children of the rednecks they look down on into the fray...there is more forgery in M4 then his rifle imo |
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Quoted: They died under that flag, while trying to destroy the United States of America. Where is the Bill of Rights in the CSA's Constitution. View Quote Wrong. They died to preserve their right to choose their way of life, much like another bunch in 1776 decided to do. Read up on true Southern history and not what the publik skoolz force fed you. The war of Northern agression was never about slavery, anymore than the 2nd amendment is about hunting. |
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Quoted: Quoted: They died under that flag, while trying to destroy the United States of America. Where is the Bill of Rights in the CSA's Constitution. View Quote Wrong. They died to preserve their right to choose their way of life, much like another bunch in 1776 decided to do. Read up on true Southern history and not what the publik skoolz force fed you. The war of Northern agression was never about slavery, anymore than the 2nd amendment is about hunting. View Quote Don't waste your time on this guy. It's a lost cause and he'll just call you a racist in a round about way then spout about the KKK and the South Carolina govt. in the '60s. Soon he will lead into how all of the poor dumb rednecks living in trailer houses were tricked into going to war against the North by all of the rich white slave owners who lived on plantations and made more money than Bill Gates. Next, he will explain how the war was all the fault of the South because we "tried to destroy the United States" and about how we attacked Ft. Sumtner. There have been more outright lies posted on this thread protecting the actions of the North than all of the lies told during the Monica Lewinski scandal. I'm done with this thread. If I feel like hearing some more fairy tales I'll watch one of the kids Disney movies..... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They died under that flag, while trying to destroy the United States of America. Where is the Bill of Rights in the CSA's Constitution. View Quote Wrong. They died to preserve their right to choose their way of life, much like another bunch in 1776 decided to do. Read up on true Southern history and not what the publik skoolz force fed you. The war of Northern agression was never about slavery, anymore than the 2nd amendment is about hunting. View Quote Don't waste your time on this guy. It's a lost cause and he'll just call you a racist in a round about way then spout about the KKK and the South Carolina govt. in the '60s. Soon he will lead into how all of the poor dumb rednecks living in trailer houses were tricked into going to war against the North by all of the rich white slave owners who lived on plantations and made more money than Bill Gates. Next, he will explain how the war was all the fault of the South because we "tried to destroy the United States" and about how we attacked Ft. Sumtner. There have been more outright lies posted on this thread protecting the actions of the North than all of the lies told during the Monica Lewinski scandal. I'm done with this thread. If I feel like hearing some more fairy tales I'll watch one of the kids Disney movies..... View Quote Yup reality bites, oh no here's the real story, Abe Lincoln, the founder of Area 51 btw, got some alien technology weapons. That right giant magnets. The SC militia that surrounded Charleston harbor were shocked when their cannon ammunition was suddenly pulled toward Fort Sumter by the US garrison's magnetic weapons. Nothing better than a little lying, err revisionist history, since the Confederates fired the first rounds. Oh yeah and then call the other guy the liar................ |
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Yup reality bites, oh no here's the real story, Abe Lincoln, the founder of Area 51 btw, got some alien technology weapons. That right giant magnets. The SC militia that surrounded Charleston harbor were shocked when their cannon ammunition was suddenly pulled toward Fort Sumter by the US garrison's magnetic weapons. Nothing better than a little lying, err revisionist history, since the Confederates fired the first rounds. Oh yeah and then call the other guy the liar................ View Quote I too am through with this...It's just like trying to talk to an anti-gunner rationally...it can't be done. They don't want to hear facts nor discuss the respective points of view...they just throw out the same tired accusations of lies and the same tired old statistics and whip themselves into a frenzy of name calling to drown out any shred of something they might hear that contradicts their PC little version of things. Must be nice to never have to think for yourself. Audemus Defendere Jura. |
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The south was right. The Confederate Flag is more beautiful, meaningful, and inspirational to me than the Stars and Stripes could ever be. God Bless the CSA!
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I have read only the first page so far, but I do believe I read somewhere, sometime back, that seceding from the Union was now legally considered treason. Is this right, or wrong?
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Flying the confederate flag is just stupid. Whether you like it or not it has too many negative conotations to it. That's just the way it is.
And you can take all that crap about the civil war not being about slavery and stuff it up your butt. You may be right but reality has proven time and time again that past events are re-evaluated for more current significance and then history is somewhat rewritten to support this transformation. Since our society eventually realized the full magnitude of how barbaric and inhumane slavery actually was, there was additional emphasis put on it. Whether or not the Union powers-at-be realized it at the time or not, they included one of the most important agenda items in this country's history when they decided to make slavery an issue. All you poor southern boys who want to go out and wave the confederate flag just because some has told you not too are just being manipulated into looking like stereotypical red-neck morons. You mentality has adapted to think that it makes you special and represents you desire to rebel against the northern liberal elite but that's sort of the same way that the Branch Davidians felt. Even at best, without the association to slavery, the flag still represents rejection of the union. Well that's just brilliant. Have fun. In my mind, flying the confederate flag is the same as stomping on the US flag. Anything else is just rationalizing. |
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Quoted: The Confederate Flag is more beautiful, meaningful, and inspirational to me than the Stars and Stripes could ever be. View Quote Whether or not the South had good cause to withdraw from the Union, I find that statement totally offensive. I am a southerner, but I am an American first...I think southerners that put their "CSA" heritage ahead of their American citizenship are no better than the ethnic minorities that want to be hyphenated Americans. If you're not an American BEFORE you're a Southerner or African or Italian or whatever, to hell with you. |
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The South stood for resistance against Tyranny. The North was just as racist as the South. The North was for saving the Union, and not for saving the slaves. Hell, a lot of the time the Northern Army killed black men and raped black women.
So let the flag fly! [img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/csa1st-animated.gif[/img][img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/csa2nd-animated.gif[/img][img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/csa3rd-animated.gif[/img] [img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/confednavaljack.gif[/img][img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/georgia.gif[/img][img]http://home.supernet.com/~libertyof76/images/flags/mississippi.gif[/img] As for the KKK and the flag, read this article from Lew(HeyEric!HeGotItRightThisTimeDidn'tHe?)Rockwell: [url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/klan-flag.html[/url] Here is some pictures: From the 1920's: [img]http://www.lewrockwell.com/photos/klan1923.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.lewrockwell.com/photos/klan1925.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.lewrockwell.com/photos/klanpat.jpg[/img] From the 1960s: [img]http://www.lewrockwell.com/photos/klan1960.jpg[/img] [sarcasm]Huh? Huh? The Klan with the American flag? That's not right! [/sarcasm] |
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Quoted: Yes in America "class structure" has been frowned on, everywhere but the South. View Quote Bullshit. Trying espousing a conservative opinion in your Mecca of freedom Wisconsin. Just see how far you "Constitutional rights" get you there. You are sheeple. You just happen to own guns. |
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Oly: You have zero (0) understanding of what you debate. You look like an ass. If the majority of people in South Carolina wish to have the CBF flown over a [b]CONFEDERATE CEMETARY[/b] than it should be done. Just because a vocal minority objects to the heritage of the many doesn't mean we should acquiesce to their wishes.
My ancestors were Confederates, their ancestors were Patriots, their ancestors were highlanders. We never owned any slaves and we didn't fight to maintain slavery. We fought to maintain our [b]CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS[/b] that were being progressively denied by a dictatorial federal government. The Yankees passed trade tariffs in an attempt to force Southern states to trade with them instead of Europe. All of the high-and-mighty bullshit you spewed about the War being fought to make sure Constitutional rights were given to blacks is just that, bullshit. It was a financial war. The Yanks needed a market for their expanding manufacturing base, and they were trying to force the South to become that market. The Emancipation Proclamation was a clever political move on the part of Lincoln, he wanted to keep England out of the War by making it about slavery. He didn't give a rat's ass about blacks, for proof read the ENTIRE Proclamation. |
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Liberty: While I respect the gesture, I do have a problem with the caption on the top photo. That is NOT the Stars and Bars, it is the Stars and Stripes. The Stars and Bars was the national flag of the Confederate States of America. It had 3 bars and 13 (if I remember correctly) stars.
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Quoted: Liberty: While I respect the gesture, I do have a problem with the caption on the top photo. That is NOT the Stars and Bars, it is the Stars and Stripes. The Stars and Bars was the national flag of the Confederate States of America. It had 3 bars and 13 (if I remember correctly) stars. View Quote Yeah, I noticed that too. Probably should have made a note. I'll email the author of that page, or you can, whatever. And the Stars and Bars originally had 7 stars, then added more as more states left the Union and joined the Confederacy. The most common besides 7 was eleven. there was some 13 star versions, and even a 15,17 and 18 variations although they were rare. more here:[url]http://www.fotw.ca/flags/us-csa1.html[/url]. (I'm an amateur vexologist, one who studies flags and what they mean.) |
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Quoted: Oly: You have zero (0) understanding of what you debate. View Quote Yeah ok, read my posts where wasn't it clear that the North was 2 years into the war before the Emancipation Proclamation became official. I said that it wasn't about that. Of course what states rights are you refering to that the South sought to protect?? Name them, name the issues, go, because the major issue was slavery. Then you'll say taxation, guess what slaves figured prominently in that, because back then states paid the federal government based on population, the South didn't want slaves counted for taxation purposes. Next you'll say representation, guess what that was based on?? population again, Southerners who considered slaves property wanted them counted toward representation. Or maybe you'll go on about admitting new states to the Union, since the US had decided no new slave states would be allowed to join. Next you'll go on about tariffs, waaaaa the Constitution give the US the right to regulate interstate commerce. No the North didn't join the war to free the slaves, I don't think they would have even had the will to fight after the South seceded if SC militia hadn't attacked a US fort. The war was fought to put the country back together, oh and some other stuff happened too. The high and mighty stuff you refer to was in reference to the civil rights movement in the 1960's. I just get a little tired of the revisionist, "War of Northern Agression" crap. Who fired first? Who tried to destroy the United States? I loved a tour at Ft Sumter I went on. They made sure they pointed out the US garrison surrendered after being surrounded and bombarded, and quietly said they were out of food and the forts heavy cannons were in crates and couldn't be assembled while under fire. They made it seem like a great Southern victory over those US cowards, and oh by the way the US troops had no real means to resist and suffered 0 casualties. When they talked about the US siege of Fort Sumter later in the war, they talked about the 1.5 year lenght of the siege, that was required before the CSA troops "withdrew but weren't defeated". Well isn't that special. Then they added since Ft Sumter was no longer in CSA hands it allowed Union soldiers and sailors access to most of the state from Charleston. Well they weren't defeated, but in giving up the fort the whole State came back into US control............ yeah that wasn't a major defeat. |
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woohoo...oly just won't quit and now it comes out that he is a racist....he hates southerners.
Look at that last post....so much anger. "they tried to destroy the US" and? Go back and read the Declaration of Independence, read other writings were the founding fathers talked about a revolution every twenty years....the US was and is a good idea. But to keep anybody in it by force is TYRANNY. |
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Quoted: woohoo...oly just won't quit and now it comes out that he is a racist....he hates southerners. View Quote It isn't a good thing to hate Southerners (or to hate anyone based on their birth) but you DO know that "Southern" isn't a RACE, don't you? |
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Ok this pisses me off.First, Oly just shut the hell up!!!!!!!!!Have you ever been to the south?I was born and have ilved in the south my hole life.I dont expect you to understand and i dont think you ever will.ITS A SOUTHERN THING so leave it a lone!!!Second these men died for what they thought was right.therefor they should have the flag that they died for flown at whatever the cost!Third,the city of Houston Tx said that at any public function the csa flag could not be flown, by law!And mine flys to this day,its not about raceisam it is about heritage and where you come from.Robert E Lee is in my family tree,and yes i hold this very dear.so you see its not about raceisam,hate,kkk or anyting else is about heritage and nothing else!!!!
IF YOU WANT MY FLAG YOU HAVE TO GET THROUGH ME FIRST. |
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yep I do but as with my other replies....it was rather tongue in cheek....I have had a lot of fun here and I have had to look up a lot of things to bolster my position. Overall it has been a learning experience and I love that it has come down to hatred of someone over an act
long ago....who said southrons are the only ones who will never forget? |
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1hole -
Don't get sucked into teh black hole of Oly's vacuous logic. He's not here to debate - he's here to "evangelize" against a piece of cloth. No different than the antis evangelize against wood and metal when it happens to be assembled in the form of a firearm. He's a [troll] |
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1hole -
Don't get sucked into teh black hole of Oly's vacuous logic. He's not here to debate - he's here to "evangelize" against a piece of cloth. No different than the antis evangelize against wood and metal when it happens to be assembled in the form of a firearm. He's a [troll] |
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Quoted: IF YOU WANT MY FLAG YOU HAVE TO GET THROUGH ME FIRST. View Quote Actually, you would have to get through him second. I'll be the first one you meet if you're comming from the north. |
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At least once a week I pass by General Nathan Bedford Forrests' Memorial marker. It is located about thirty feet to the west of a major highway and there is always a flag flying that represented the CSA during some portion of that war. I tip my hat(metaphorically speaking)and say "Good morning General". No harm here, no harm there. Let it go.
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Post from RikWriter -
It isn't a good thing to hate Southerners (or to hate anyone based on their birth) but you DO know that "Southern" isn't a RACE, don't you? View Quote You are correct, Sir, it's not a race - it's a [b]religion![/b] Eric The(AndI'mAHighPriestOfThatReligion)Hun[>]:)] |
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GARANDMAN i am not geting sucked in,i dont post my thoughts becuse they are just that my thoughts.but this one i just could not hold back.
thanks ponyboy,that means alot 1hole out |
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1) I don't hate Southerners or the CSA soldiers, they did more with less.
2) I said I don't think the CBF was racist.(during the war when it was used as a BF) 3) I said that the North's reason for fighting the war were not about ending slavery. 4) I also said that I as an individual have no problem with other individual showing their CBF's. 5) I do have different feelings about States displaying CBF style flags, esp SC...... Here is what I do have a problem with 1) Revisionist history...... War of Northern Agression etc. 2) Denial that slavery was racist. 3) Denial that one of the South's reason for being in the war WAS slavery. 4) People jumping up and down saying the CBF has nothing to do with racism, it didn't originally but now it does. 5) Denial that the formation of the CSA was in effect trying to "pull apart" the United States. I don't think there were noble motives for the North fighting the war, as I said I don't think they had the will to do it until they were attacked. I also think the line soldiers on both sides were trying to defend their States from an enemy, and that most people in those days felt more allegiance to their State than their Counrty. I also said it is a shame something like this has to go to court, and that I have no problem with memorial flags being flown. I just got sucked into this because immediatley after this thread got started "don't tell me the CBF is racist, and the South was fighting for "States Rights" got tossed out. As far as me not being here to debate I responded to points made by others, most of the responses I got back were oh yeah, sez you, and you suck, kind've responses. Not to mention getting called a liberal, and having an anti-gunner mentality. I was also painted as calling people rascist, I did not. I do think that some of you are "revisionist" however. |
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