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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:22:47 PM EDT
[#1]
The thing is, it doesn't seem to have the practical effect of denying Colt products to "the peons". A quick Google search and a glance at the EE yields plenty of places selling Colt LE products to the general public. I don't think their sales are being negatively affected. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:24:10 PM EDT
[#2]
I've suspected that Colt has made several gentleman's agreements with its LE distributors to the effect of "sell to whomever you want, but make sure you keep our LE customers happy first." I think the situation that Colt wanted to avoid was every home-business FFL buying them and selling to non-LEOs for $1500+ and not having any available for its LE customers. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:26:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Does this mean that I can now take my Colt AR out of it's case with the lights on around other people? I'm tired of holding in total darkness......
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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:27:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Motown, thanks for posting the results from your E mail. Tho it probably was not exactly the answer you expected to get I appreciate that you had the integrity to post Marks answer.
PS. Wanna buy a Colt?  Have a good one. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:34:17 PM EDT
[#5]
I must say that I am very impressed with Colt. It is a definate step in the right direction. It is still not as impressive as looking at the Bushmaster web site on the morning after the AWB ended. It looked like a New Years Eve Party. They were excited and enthusiastic about being able to sell what the customers wanted. Funny, over on the Colt civilian websight all I see available are the same neutered rifles imposed by the Expired Ban. Perhaps this change of heart by Colt has been brought about by their legal loss to Bushmaster the other day. Could it be they've pulled their head out of their ass and read the writing on the wall? I certainly hope so, I hope that they wake up and realize it's Joe Sixpack that has made their business for them. Again, way to go Colt, I hope this is a sign of more great things to come. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:38:02 PM EDT
[#6]
This is good news but now it's gonna be harder to buy a Colt because everyone else is gona be looking
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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:38:57 PM EDT
[#7]
It's BS. I heard from a friend of my sisters cousins fathers brother that Colt still wont sell to civies. 
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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:41:38 PM EDT
[#8]
This guy you heard from... He wouldn't happen to be PD in Orange County, would he?
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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:48:49 PM EDT
[#9]
One question hasn't been asked yet: why has Colt decided not to "retro" their MT line? That would cover just about every conceivable model if it was done. And don't say it's because of the states that still have an AWB in place (CA, NY, NJ, etc.). Perhaps trying to have it both ways, i.e. not "officially" making models for peons but allowing sales of LE guns to whomever on the side?
Not exactly "shouting it from the mountainside" like Bushmaster did. And yes, I do have a Colt MT6400C (with a marked "M4 Carbine" receiver) that I have un-banned and I'll probably never sell. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:53:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Yawn..An almost announcement in an email? Wake me up when they post it on their web site.
 wganz ¶ |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 4:59:21 PM EDT
[#11]
It was never a public announcement when they stopped selling LEO rifles to civilians. Remember it was a letter that went out to Colt dealers, not some big press announcement. So why should we expect some big announcement to the public when they never said anything directly to the public in the first place? |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 5:19:17 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 12/12/2005 5:19:54 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 12/12/2005 5:23:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Motwon_Steve, kudos to you!
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Posted: 12/12/2005 5:34:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Does Colt still use the non-standard pins for the hammer and trigger? If so, fork'em!
If not, then maybe it's time to go shopping. Merlin |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 5:38:56 PM EDT
[#16]
It's one hell of a step in the right direction. One last point I would like to see clarified (seriously): Mr. Roberts works for Colt's Manufacturing Co., the civilian side of Colt. Simple question: Does he also speak in an similar official capacity for Colt Defense? Is he stating explicitly that this is the policy of Colt Defense? If he answers yes to this question, I will consider the issue closed. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 5:44:27 PM EDT
[#17]
 Until they "retro" the MT line thats alot of manufacturing capability making crap no one wants and colt seems to have a terrible time getting significant numbers of rifles out |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:10:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Dude, seriously. Be honest with everyone here. You're not going to be happy unless each and every subjective condition you can come up with is met. Be a man and acknowledge it or be a man and give Colt some credit. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:13:01 PM EDT
[#19]
There are some markets in the U.S. that are not free and civilians can only own the neutered version. . . . |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:17:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Meanwhile only the neutered versions are available through the distributors and LE distributors still require a letterhead.
When I see regular distributors stocking LE Colts then we will be someplace. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:19:37 PM EDT
[#21]
and let me guess, the pin size bothers you but the other brands non-milspec collapsable stocks dont?  Standard is all a matter of having extra parts on hand |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:21:43 PM EDT
[#22]
yes but that is like what 2 states NY and NJ? |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:27:53 PM EDT
[#23]
There you go. Fuck Colt. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:33:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Sounds like a typical PR/Marketing crafted BS response.
Where the fook are the pre-ban config Colt rifles in main-stream gun stores? They are not there. That tells me all I need to know about Colt's policy. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:36:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Where is my LE 6920? In my safe. Purchased with one phonecall and no letterhead for $1200. That tells me all I need to know about Colt's policy. 
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:38:04 PM EDT
[#26]
NO! I think its a reliable source in South Florida 
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:39:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Yes, but you bought it from a person who needed a letterhead to get it. I've sold a few Colts myself, but I can't call my regular distributors and get LE Colts. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:39:35 PM EDT
[#28]
So someone other than Steyr go put together a group buy and see what happens.
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:43:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Just checking because I'm not sure...but are you doubting me? |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:44:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Yes they are, my local shop has had one or 2 on the wall since about 2 weeks after the ban got over. The only one that did not hit the wall was the 9mm carbine and thats because he knew I wanted it so he never put it out. Just tossed the box at me when I walked in one day. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:48:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Here ya go: www.lesalesusa.com/clearance.htm
NIB and IN STOCK NOW---LIMITED SUPPLY!!! Colt model 6920 .223 A3 Civilian Price: $1,295 plus shipping LE/Military Personnel: $1,235 plus shipping NIB and IN STOCK NOW---LIMITED SUPPLY!!! Colt model 6450 9mm Carbine Civilian Price: $1,275 plus shipping LE/Military Personnel: $1,225 plus shipping NIB and IN STOCK NOW---LIMITED SUPPLY!!! Colt AR-6721 - A3 Tactical Carbine Civilian Price: $1,225 plus shipping LE/Military Personnel: $1,175 plus shipping We need NFA 34 gone!! POST Sample, Colt model 635, 9mm SMG All in Excellent Condition Four (4) IN STOCK: $850 each plus shipping (2 for $1,600) Includes one (1) 32 round magazine, NO SLING |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:49:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Nothing has changed here!
Colt-Authorized LE dealers have ALWAYS been able to get Colt LE products, and have ALWAYS been able to sell them to whomever they wish. How do you think SAWLESales and other established Colt LE dealers were getting them? Normal FFLs are STILL only able to get LE Colts with letterhead. Normal FFLs can still only buy neutered Match Target guns unless they have letterhead. Nothing has changed. -Troy |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:49:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Don't confuse your resourcefulness as proof that Colt doesn't have a policy against selling pre-ban config guns to civilians. All it takes is one visit to their webpage to understand their policy. Their webpage says it loud and clear. Colt AR15 Rifle For Law Enforcement Colt AR15 Rifles For Civilans |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:51:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Thanks for the info, Motown Steve. It's good to see that they're not as anti-second amendment as some say. But I still wont buy any of their stuff. Way overpriced. But to each their own.
 Also, it is a beautiful site to see someone on this site of all places to admit to being wrong! Way to go! |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:52:58 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 12/12/2005 7:04:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Yup, and that ain't a FFL distributor. That is someone who has gotten them (and needed a letterhead) and is now selling them to the private sector. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 7:05:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Correct. And it ain't easy being a Colt Authorized LE dealer. Just having a FFL or even a SOT won't come close to cutting it. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 7:26:47 PM EDT
[#38]
The marketing director for Colt just said there is no Colt policy. I don't care that Colt only sells them to a few LE distributors. Fact is Colt is perfectly happy that I have a 6920. Only difference between getting my Colt and getting my Bushy is I had to look around a little on the internet. Its not hard by any means for anyone on this board to get one. |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 2:50:45 AM EDT
[#39]
This is right on the front of the Colt Defense Webpage. Colt Defense is the company that sells all the LE models. Colt's Manufacturing Company sells the "target" versions of the AR15 to the civilian market.
Colt Defense is a leading designer, developer and manufacturer of small arms and weapons systems for the U.S. Military, its allies and federal, state and local law enforcement agencies. Colt's Manufacturing Company LLC is a completely separate company that designs, manufactures and sells Colt handguns and Colt Match Target rifles. Colt's Manufacturing Company has a separate website that you can access at www.coltsmfg.com Link |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 3:35:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Don't know, wouldn't live in one . . . . |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 4:06:56 AM EDT
[#41]
The only Colt AR15 I have ever seen in a gunshop I have visited was a 9mm carbine that was LEO marked (this was during the AWB) and being used as a rental gun only.
For me, the self-imposed Moritorium on civvy sales by Colt will be over when I can go to my local dealer and pick one up as easily as a Bushmaster. Guys, it's simple-you can either support a company that supports you and acts to protect your rights (how many of you forgot about BM's handling of the DC sniper situation and aftermath?) or you can spend your money on a company that thinks it's currying favor with elements in your government that don't think you need a military style rifle. I don't view Colt as being any different than having bought a S&W during the Clinton Administration. Buying a Colt is like getting head from a fag-it feels great until one of your buddies sees you. 
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Posted: 12/13/2005 4:16:14 AM EDT
[#42]
I LOVE MY COLTS!!!
And my Bushmasters.....and my RR.....and my  Oh, and you should see my collection of "LEO' marked stuff. <--------just a civvy!
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Posted: 12/13/2005 5:00:28 AM EDT
[#43]
Edited for clarity. You do understand that he may, or may not, be speaking for Colt Defense? Seriously, is he the Sales and Marketing Director for BOTH sides of the company? If not then his response, while hopeful, isnt the last word. Get the Sales and Marketing Director for Colt Defense to write a similar response, and you will have the official word. Its like asking the Chevrolet place what is going on down the street in the Cadillac place. He may have a damn good idea of what the answer is, but his word means nothing to the Cadillac people.
El_Abogado, I am trying to give Colt some credit. I am also trying to get the answer from someone who clearly has the authority to make such a statement. Its half an answer, and a damn good one on its surface. I want to make sure its the definitive one. What would really suck is if Colt Defense responds to that email with "Mark WHO?" - that is what I want to avoid. Be honest yourself. You might have an answer that will shut up the doubters, and you will ride it into the ground. Just like Slim Pickens in Doctor Strangelove. |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 7:18:08 AM EDT
[#44]
Lot's of companies are "separate" in legalese. That usually doesn't mean crap in real life. Usually, it means that a lawyer has written up two separate incorporation documents and had the same people sign them. The fact is that someone pretty high up on the Colt food chain has stated that there is no formal Colt policy against sales to non-LEOs. This is the best information we have to-date on the actual situation. Getting a Colt LE firearm is no different than getting a Remington police shotgun, or premium hollowpoints from Federal or Winchester. You simply have to go to an LE supplier, and there are plenty who will sell to you. As for the Match Target line, all he said is that there aren't going to do anything with it now. As many people have posted before on this board, Colt is apparently at capacity with military and LEO orders. I don't know if they've even made a new Match Target since the ban expired. I suspect they've taken a "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" approach to that topic. |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 7:46:11 AM EDT
[#45]
The question that I have is why are they marking everything they put out of their factory except the MT line with the markings "for law enforcement, goverment use only." And from what I've gathered, it doesn't even look like they even make the match target line anymore, they have just been shipping out the rifles they've had stockpiled around the factory.
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Posted: 12/13/2005 8:24:22 AM EDT
[#46]
Operative phrase highlighted. Odds are you are right. I hope so too, but I am also a natural skeptic. Especially when it comes to this topic. |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 8:40:27 AM EDT
[#47]
I'll take a stab at a guess. It's worth what you pay for it. Not much demand for the MT line except in commie states. They probably have enough in stock to last awhile for that small market. People want the LE line. Might as well ride that horse as far as it will take you. Colt has always changed nomenclature and it has inadvertently, or otherwise, sold more rifles to collectors. I've also seen here that Colt is partially owned byt the State of Conncticut. No doubt that influences their policies if true. They can say we are only selling to LE distributors but some are getting out into the general population at the same time that they are feeding us and making money. From the state of CN's POV they get to feel good about their socialist anti-2nd Amend bullshit while yet making money off Colt. Everyone gets waht they want except for some FFLs who are unable to get in on the action. Screwed up? Yes. But still better than the alternative. I love Colt rifles and they are superior.  Not sure if all of that is true above but it is what I have read here on ARFCOM in the past. Regardless, I shoot 'em and know I can count on them when the chips are down. I've owned RRA and Bushy. Decent rifles but neither were without issues. I've owned far more Colts. Never a hiccup or ANY problem. Call me happy. Were I Colt I would do pretty much what they are. |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 8:43:59 AM EDT
[#48]
LEO/Military line = limited access = premium price
any questions? |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 10:19:43 AM EDT
[#49]
Are you saying that sometimes it's more profitable to manufacture demand than it is to manufacture more rifles?
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Posted: 12/13/2005 10:27:28 AM EDT
[#50]
Gonzo did this research last night:
I called several gun shops, including a cop shop in Denver and indicated I wanted to buy one of these Venerated "not civvie neutered" Colt rifles. "Can't do it if you're not law enforcement. We have to send the distributor a letter on LEO letterhead. Colt makes 'em do it." was what I got from three out of the four (including the cop shop). The fourth, said: "I've got a LEO buddy who might be willing to sell a rifle he got based on this LEO contacts, I'll call you back with his price." It was $1600. |
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