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Link Posted: 12/28/2012 2:52:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
That happened to me in Tennessee around 2005, when I ordered a Glock 21 from a local gunstore (right outside Nashville).

When it arrived, they told me it came with 10-round magazines.  I told them to double-check, because I was pretty sure Glock shipped them with 13-round mags.  They assured me that no, this was the way that Glock shipped them from the factory, and never included 13-round mags.   But they'd be happy to sell me some 13-round mags.  

I told them to fuck off.


I know who that is. They did that to me right before the '94 ban. I called Glock and they told me that pistol did ship with standard mags. I went to LaVergne and had them call. The owner was a little pissed but gave me my mags.

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 2:53:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
That happened to me in Tennessee around 2005, when I ordered a Glock 21 from a local gunstore (right outside Nashville).

When it arrived, they told me it came with 10-round magazines.  I told them to double-check, because I was pretty sure Glock shipped them with 13-round mags.  They assured me that no, this was the way that Glock shipped them from the factory, and never included 13-round mags.   But they'd be happy to sell me some 13-round mags.  

I told them to fuck off.


You need to stick with what you trained with.



Picked this 1910 Swede up this morning.

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 2:53:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:


While I am sure a few are just customers trying to scam extra mags  , my money is on little dealers swiping um


 



The shyster gun shop on Entrance Rd Leesville, LA right outside of Fort Polk was notorious for this in the 07/08 timeframe.  Trying to sell pistols that per SKU came with 3 mags with only one or two mags.  Conveniently they had out of the package mags to sell to people.  Caught them at it with questions a couple of times.


Funny you should mention those guy's. You would not beleive the shit I was seeing in there the last couple of weeks when I would stop by to just have something to do and make my laugh my ass off.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 2:54:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By P08:

Originally Posted By SkiShooter:
In before the Thin Gunshop Line....
As a dealer I do not do what has been purported to have gone on. However there is a difference between you buying a gun online and having the mags taken and buying a gun in stock. If the gun is the dealers possession he can sell it with out mags if he likes, it's his to so with as he pleases and you have the option not to buy from him. If you have him order a gun and it comes with 2 or 3 mags then that is how many you should get.

 


while you are technically correct about the part in red, I go by what the MFG says should be included.

If the dealer won't comply with that, I won't buy.  Sorry, but if I am supposed to get 3 17 rd mags with my NIB G17, then there will be 3 fucking mags if I am going to buy it.  Piss off if you want to play games.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 2:54:28 PM EDT
I've seen distributors, do the same thing before.  Nothing new to me.



Jeremy
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 2:55:02 PM EDT
I guess I misunderstood.

I thought you guys meant people were buying a gun directly from an online store like buds gun shop and the ffl it was transferred to literally stole the magazines from the incoming package before transferring it to the person.

It does not surprise me one bit that stores will remove extra magazines that come with the guns they sell
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 2:56:01 PM EDT
The dealer that I use for transfers doesn't open the packages.  He lets the buyer do it.  All the dealer wants is the sellers FFL and the SN off the firearm.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:00:35 PM EDT
Yep reminds me of post 1994.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:03:21 PM EDT
Is glock still putting the number of mags included on the UPC sticker on the glock box?

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:03:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David_ESM:
I haven't used an FFL since WA started requiring them to collect tax on everything in shop, however the one I used to use wouldn't open the box until you came in. Took a few more minutes to do the paperwork and such, but you were the first one to inspect the package so no foul play could ever be called on their part.


The dealer who transferred my most recent purchase did the same thing. The box was sealed when I arrived at their store.

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:09:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DON70:
The dealer that I use for transfers doesn't open the packages.  He lets the buyer do it.  All the dealer wants is the sellers FFL and the SN off the firearm.


That's how it should be done.  Consider yourself lucky to have a good dealer.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:13:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By azmp5:
I had that happen to me when I got my XDm 9mm.  At the time it was suppose to come with 3 19 round mags but when I got it, there were just the 2.  after some arguing I left and went to another gun store and got it for a few $ more and 3 mags.


How did they explain the 2 mag belt holder then? "Oh that's for when you carry your XDm with no clip? Hur."

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:14:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2012 3:15:51 PM EDT by sleepdr]
Originally Posted By broncobisley1:
Originally Posted By DON70:
The dealer that I use for transfers doesn't open the packages.  He lets the buyer do it.  All the dealer wants is the sellers FFL and the SN off the firearm.


That's how it should be done.  Consider yourself lucky to have a good dealer.


No doubt.  My first NFA transfer just got done.  The dealer misplaced the item, couldn't find the tax stamp when that arrived, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the item was test-driven at least once by someone other than myself.  There are a number of marks on it that were not present the last time I fondled & cleaned it at their facility a couple months earlier.

I found someone less expensive and hopefully better organized for future transfers.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:17:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 50cal:
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
That happened to me in Tennessee around 2005, when I ordered a Glock 21 from a local gunstore (right outside Nashville).

When it arrived, they told me it came with 10-round magazines.  I told them to double-check, because I was pretty sure Glock shipped them with 13-round mags.  They assured me that no, this was the way that Glock shipped them from the factory, and never included 13-round mags.   But they'd be happy to sell me some 13-round mags.  

I told them to fuck off.


I know who that is. They did that to me right before the '94 ban. I called Glock and they told me that pistol did ship with standard mags. I went to LaVergne and had them call. The owner was a little pissed but gave me my mags.



That's exactly who I figured DK was talking about
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:21:23 PM EDT



Originally Posted By mattellis2:


Is glock still putting the number of mags included on the UPC sticker on the glock box?





Yes, they list the number of mags as well as the capacity.



 
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:24:25 PM EDT
I has a Noveske rifle shipped to a local FFL and when I got there the package was opened...they told me it was their "right" ...I told them bullshit and never would I have anything transferred there again....
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:30:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
That happened to me in Tennessee around 2005, when I ordered a Glock 21 from a local gunstore (right outside Nashville).

When it arrived, they told me it came with 10-round magazines.  I told them to double-check, because I was pretty sure Glock shipped them with 13-round mags.  They assured me that no, this was the way that Glock shipped them from the factory, and never included 13-round mags.   But they'd be happy to sell me some 13-round mags.  

I told them to fuck off.


I had a local shop do that to me on a P 229 right after the '94 ban.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:32:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
Have shipped 1000+ rifles in the last couple weeks
Now getting customer complaints of missing magazines

While I am sure a few are just customers trying to scam extra mags  , my money is on little dealers swiping um

we are now going to remove mags and ship separate to the buyers home
 

Man, that sucks...sorry brother

Have you noticed an trend of complaints with certain dealers? That might help you to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Years ago when I sold Colt parts on eBay I used to snap a pic of the parts in the shipping box just before sealing it. That saved me a couple of times when buyers claimed that parts were missing. I'd ask them if the shipping box was sealed with the red and yellow striped tape when they received it. They'd usually say yes, and then I'd e-mail them the pic and ask them to "double check" the box. Worked like a charm I used the oddball tape because it wasn't common, and it was easy to tell if it had been cut. Put it on both sides of the box too.

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:36:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DON70:
The dealer that I use for transfers doesn't open the packages.  He lets the buyer do it.  All the dealer wants is the sellers FFL and the SN off the firearm.


That's how my dealer is.  

Though, his reasoning was much the opposite:   Too many people in carrying on about "Well the guy in Utah I bought it from the internet said there'd be 18 mags with this AR, you must have stole them all"
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:36:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ghost-1:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:


While I am sure a few are just customers trying to scam extra mags  , my money is on little dealers swiping um


 



The shyster gun shop on Entrance Rd Leesville, LA right outside of Fort Polk was notorious for this in the 07/08 timeframe.  Trying to sell pistols that per SKU came with 3 mags with only one or two mags.  Conveniently they had out of the package mags to sell to people.  Caught them at it with questions a couple of times.


Funny you should mention those guy's. You would not beleive the shit I was seeing in there the last couple of weeks when I would stop by to just have something to do and make my laugh my ass off.


Oh, I believe it.  Looks like they haven't changed.  

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:41:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scootr29:
I has a Noveske rifle shipped to a local FFL and when I got there the package was opened...they told me it was their "right" ...I told them bullshit and never would I have anything transferred there again....


I do like the idea of leaving a box sealed for the customer but at a certain point the gun needs to be logged in to the book and many want a eyes on metal sn inspection. With a BNIB gun with the number on the carton that really is probably good enough.

The only gun I ever bought that was picked over by the dealer was my M1A loaded model.  They raided the loaded coupon and one or 2 of the 3 magazines.  It was a shop owned gun so I guess it's their right.  The guy on the counter gave me a really good price hipshooting with his new found permission from the boss to negotiate deals.  He sold it to me for damn near cost.    Springfield confirmed the gun was shipped with a coupon and 3 mags.  They sent me a replacement coupon but I lost out on the mags which were worth $20 ea at the time.  

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:42:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Isn't this, uh, theft, fraud, and selling stolen property?


Only if they get caught. Some people are dishonest and don't give a shit.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:52:00 PM EDT



Originally Posted By scootr29:


I has a Noveske rifle shipped to a local FFL and when I got there the package was opened...they told me it was their "right" ...I told them bullshit and never would I have anything transferred there again....
Any dealer that does not verify the serial number on the gun itself is a moron. It does not happen often, but I have twice received guns from the distributor that had different serial numbers than what was listed on the invoice.





 
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:34:45 PM EDT
The FFL has maybe 24 hours to record that incoming serial number, so if the deal is to unseal with the dealer make sure you get there asap.  He cannot have it too far into day 2 without recording it is arrived.  An FFL can clarify this, but i always get it the same day it arrives.




Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:57:48 PM EDT



Originally Posted By operatorerror:





Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:



we are now going to remove mags and ship separate to the buyers home

 


For years I've been requesting that sellers remove everything that can be easily removed and send it to me at my home. Send the gun to the FFL and the rest to my house.  I will of course pay for any additional shipping and handling.



Not one has ever done it for me. I guess it's too much trouble.

 


LaRue has done it for me, no extra cost either.

 
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:10:53 PM EDT
Local one I go to doesn't even open the box till you come in.

I ordered a PSL from aim a few years ago. Got to the store and they set the box on the counter for me to open.

Cheap transfers also.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:27:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:34:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:39:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jimNeb:
Originally Posted By David_ESM:
I haven't used an FFL since WA started requiring them to collect tax on everything in shop, however the one I used to use wouldn't open the box until you came in. Took a few more minutes to do the paperwork and such, but you were the first one to inspect the package so no foul play could ever be called on their part.


The dealer who transferred my most recent purchase did the same thing. The box was sealed when I arrived at their store.



I used a local store in MI to transfer two rifles I bought from Classic Arms and when I arrived to pick up the rifles the boxes were unopened.  I must have got there before they logged them in.

I bought a NIB rifle from a dealer at an Arizona gun show and all accessories and mags had been pilfered by the dealer.  Not even one mag that the manufacturer includes and is listed in the materials.

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:40:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By wtturn:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
That happened to me in Tennessee around 2005, when I ordered a Glock 21 from a local gunstore (right outside Nashville).

When it arrived, they told me it came with 10-round magazines.  I told them to double-check, because I was pretty sure Glock shipped them with 13-round mags.  They assured me that no, this was the way that Glock shipped them from the factory, and never included 13-round mags.   But they'd be happy to sell me some 13-round mags.  

I told them to fuck off.

Were those your exact words?  
 


I honestly cannot remember.


Normally, I am a very polite and laid-back guy, but I tend to get angry when I know people are fucking with me ... so it's very possible I used those very words.

Before that, I did ask them if they thought it was possible that they had gotten an OLD version (from the 94-04 AWB) that had perhaps been shipped with 10-round mags, and they assured me that it was a brand new gun that had been recently shipped from the Glock factory.  Then, I called Glock and asked them if they ship G21s with 10-round mags, and they told me that the ONLY ship them like that to ban states, but certainly not to Tennessee.

So at that point, the only remaining explanation I could come up with was that they probably had lots of 10-rounders left from the AWB ban in stock that nobody wanted any longer, so they were swapping these out for the new ones that came with factory guns, and then trying to sell the correct "high-capacity" mags to the buyer as well.



I have a G21 that I bought after the ban ended and it came with two ten rounders....




...but it was one that came in a Tupperware box. Still have that and the two KKKlinton mags, plus a couple of STANDARD capacity mags. Love that gun.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:42:30 PM EDT
Since we're on the subject, how many mags are Bushmaster ORCs shipping with nowadays?

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:45:46 PM EDT
"It would be a shame if the ATF got a little note about how things go missing around here....."
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:46:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David_ESM:
I haven't used an FFL since WA started requiring them to collect tax on everything in shop, however the one I used to use wouldn't open the box until you came in. Took a few more minutes to do the paperwork and such, but you were the first one to inspect the package so no foul play could ever be called on their part.


That's very risky on his part. Firearms are supposed to be put into the bound book as soon as they come in. If the ATF came in for a compliance check and he had a gun sitting there that he received not in the A&D log, he would get fried.

He could always add the serial on the box to the A&D log, but that's risky in and of itself. Manufacturers do sometimes ship a gun in the wrong box.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:50:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scootr29:
I has a Noveske rifle shipped to a local FFL and when I got there the package was opened...they told me it was their "right" ...I told them bullshit and never would I have anything transferred there again....


Opened with all contents there or opened with contents missing?


Dealers are supposed to open boxes containing firearms to verify serials upon receipt.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:51:36 PM EDT
I bitched at my lgs when I had a pistol sent to their shop. They called and said it arrived and everything was out of the box it shipped in when i showed up. I told them that it was probably not a good idea to open other people's packages without them being present. He agreed and hasn't done it since afaik
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:54:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
That happened to me in Tennessee around 2005, when I ordered a Glock 21 from a local gunstore (right outside Nashville).

When it arrived, they told me it came with 10-round magazines.  I told them to double-check, because I was pretty sure Glock shipped them with 13-round mags.  They assured me that no, this was the way that Glock shipped them from the factory, and never included 13-round mags.   But they'd be happy to sell me some 13-round mags.  

I told them to fuck off.


I found an ad in Shotgun News near the end of the Clinton ban for NIB Beretta 92's. $499 for gun andcase, $525 with case and one 10 round mag, $550 with case and two ten round mags, $575 with case and one preban 15 round magazine.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:54:40 PM EDT
Apparently a nearby dealer had been selling blue label glocks to cops and only giving them one mag. They would swipe the others and try and sell it to them. I happened to be in my PD getting a new pistol put on my permit and overheard the conversation between the detectives and other bosses about this as well as the angry phone call to the dealer.



The telephone conversation ended with the head detective telling the gun shop owner he was going to tell everyone in his department as well as neighboring agencies about their practices and recommend nobody shop there.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:56:32 PM EDT
nothing new here.

in 1994 pre ban glocks , HKs, anything with 2 hicaps instantly came with one hicap.

Why should it be different now
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 7:00:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By caskalefan:
Holy shit, I had no idea this sort of thing took place.

How is that not considered straight up theft?  I am shocked this is common practice....


They've gotta get caught first. Few buyers know what they're supposed to get, and even fewer have the balls to do something about it.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 7:02:58 PM EDT
Federal law states that we have to log the guns in by COB.  If you can get to the shop the day your gun comes in for transfer, you get to open the box.  Otherwise we need to open the box to get the numbers, as we've also had guns come through where the numbers on the box and/or invoice didn't match the firearm.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 7:07:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scootr29:
I has a Noveske rifle shipped to a local FFL and when I got there the package was opened...they told me it was their "right" ...I told them bullshit and never would I have anything transferred there again....

If it was opened with nothing missing, what's the issue? IIRC the gun must be logged into their bound book that day. How else do they get the serial number to log it in?
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 7:18:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
That's just sad.  

Thieves need to be set on fire.



Link Posted: 12/28/2012 7:22:58 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Federov:


When I bought my STG-556 from MSAR, the box said:



Attention Dealers:  This rifle shipped with 5 magazines and must be included with the rifle





Wow, now that you say that...pretty sure Bud's was stealing mags out of MSAR boxes right when they started shipping with 5.



I bought mine and the guy "threw in" a 20 and 30 to go with the 10 it came with. Then told me they had tons of mags for $10 a pop.  



 
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 7:34:14 PM EDT
I can understand frustrations with dealers if something is missing from Your firearm, but just because the package has been opened isn't really a cause for alarm. We have to verify and enter firearms into Our bound books in a timely manner. We often have customers who cant make it in to pick-up a transfer for days, if not weeks, so therefore We verify and enter info into our bound book the day we receive it and place it into Our safe until the customer is able to make it in to fill out the paperwork. Also We often handle 10+ transfers per week, 50% of the time firearms come in with no markings or identification on the outside of the package as to let Us know who it is for, or what it is, therefore We must open the packages to know who to contact to let them know their firearm has arrived.  Last but not least at least once or twice a month we receive a firearm without any prior knowledge of the transfer, this commonly happens with large companies like buds who have our FFL on file and someone in our area places an orders through them and just use us for the convenience of not have to wait for a dealer to fax or e-mail a copy of their FFL to them.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 7:37:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:


While I am sure a few are just customers trying to scam extra mags  , my money is on little dealers swiping um


 



The shyster gun shop on Entrance Rd Leesville, LA right outside of Fort Polk was notorious for this in the 07/08 timeframe.  Trying to sell pistols that per SKU came with 3 mags with only one or two mags.  Conveniently they had out of the package mags to sell to people.  Caught them at it with questions a couple of times.


Not the same. If they are selling the pistol from their own inventory, there is nothing wrong with them splitting apart the mags. Its their gun and accessories.

If they took property from an incoming transfer paid for by the customer, it is nothing but theft.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 7:51:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By P08:
Originally Posted By SkiShooter:
In before the Thin Gunshop Line....
As a dealer I do not do what has been purported to have gone on. However there is a difference between you buying a gun online and having the mags taken and buying a gun in stock. If the gun is the dealers possession he can sell it with out mags if he likes, it's his to so with as he pleases and you have the option not to buy from him. If you have him order a gun and it comes with 2 or 3 mags then that is how many you should get.  


If I buy a new gun in stock it better have everyfuckingthing that is is supposed to have from the manufacturer.
If I buy a used gun it better not be priced to include any accessory parts like mags or holsters.
If I use the LGS as my FFL it better have everything in it that the buyer sent.

It's my money.

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 8:02:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David_ESM:
I haven't used an FFL since WA started requiring them to collect tax on everything in shop, however the one I used to use wouldn't open the box until you came in. Took a few more minutes to do the paperwork and such, but you were the first one to inspect the package so no foul play could ever be called on their part.

My FFL does the same thing.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 8:10:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KA3B:
Originally Posted By P08:
Originally Posted By SkiShooter:
In before the Thin Gunshop Line....
As a dealer I do not do what has been purported to have gone on. However there is a difference between you buying a gun online and having the mags taken and buying a gun in stock. If the gun is the dealers possession he can sell it with out mags if he likes, it's his to so with as he pleases and you have the option not to buy from him. If you have him order a gun and it comes with 2 or 3 mags then that is how many you should get.  


If I buy a new gun in stock it better have everyfuckingthing that is is supposed to have from the manufacturer.
If I buy a used gun it better not be priced to include any accessory parts like mags or holsters.
If I use the LGS as my FFL it better have everything in it that the buyer sent.

It's my money.



A dealer lied to me once. I asked if the gun came with more than the one mag it had in the box, he said no. A quick search on the net later said it came with two. He was $10 cheaper than anyone else but a replacement mag was $40. Some dealers will lie, know what you are buying.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 8:16:54 PM EDT
Yep- had a dealer here in CT do that to me and I had spent thousands over the years there. Ordered an XDm in 9mm, opened the box and found a single mag in it. When I asked where the others were I was told that it was shipped with a single mag but they had some loose mags in the back they would sell me. When I enquired how you could have loose mags for a weapon that had been out for less then a month and SA itself at the time wasnt selling spare mags yet I got the uncomfortable silence. I closed the box, walked out and never went back. Lost my $50 deposit but didnt give a shit.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 8:32:37 PM EDT
I really wish some of you guys would get FFL's so you can bitch about yourself here. Yes there are less than reputable dealers out there. Greed can do things to people that they normally would not do. Dealing with customers who beat them up on price constantly all while demanding hard to get items frays on you. Having a distributor undercut dealers and sell direct thins the profit margin. Selling you a new gun to make maybe $50 is not even worth the hassle most of the time. I could go on and on about the less than honest public who trade in fucked up guns and claim they are 100% functional and never been dicked with. Or when they trade in a gun and don't include all the accessories it came with. But I won't.
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