Changing gears in a manual transmission without using the clutch? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Changing gears in a manual transmission without using the clutch? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 8/1/2009 3:15:52 AM EDT

[#1]

I shift mine without the clutch all the time. 3-4 and 4 - 5 nary a glitch unless my timing is off.

Drove from Kansas to Colorado in 4th with a shattered input and counter shaft when a tooth broke off after ~100,000 miles; did that twice.

Just parked right to get gas and smoked the clutch to get it moving. Got home and replaced everything.

Posted: 8/1/2009 3:21:13 AM EDT

[#2]

Yes, it is possible.

No, you shouldn't do it. It's very hard on the transmission's synchronizers.

Posted: 8/1/2009 3:52:31 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I do it 100 times a day.

I do it a helluva lot more than that......2 million miles worth. Funny thing was,when I was OTR,after 8-10k miles on the road,jumping into the car,everything was so...wierd.

After driving a tractor-trailer for a week or two I'll catch myself doing it in my pickup without even thinking about it.

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Yeah,

My work truck is a Pete 359, 13 speed. Clutch to start, that it, pretty much.

Auto mini-van for groceries.

Kawi concours for fun. Clutch for starts and downshifts, only.

Drove a manual 5-speed Hyundai on Tuesday, forgot to use clutch,

most of the time. Just forgot. Cars' owner got pissed. And she has

ridden 1000,s of miles w/ me in truck, so she knows.

Anyway, once I missed a shift, started using clutch.

It was much nicer, easier, smoother.

Clutch is there for a reason, at least w/ a syncromesh tranny.

Posted: 8/1/2009 3:54:01 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Ok, so is it possible to do so in a car, and does it hurt the car not to use the clutch?

Yes. go try it and don't post irrelevant crap.

Posted: 8/1/2009 4:40:16 AM EDT

[#5]

The near future.

Zeroshift

Posted: 8/1/2009 8:31:18 AM EDT

[#6]

Ok, all this talk about doing it correctly. Please enlighten us that don't know how to do it correctly.

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Posted: 8/1/2009 11:56:37 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Ok, all this talk about doing it correctly. Please enlighten us that don't know how to do it correctly.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Short and Sweet.
Keep the Motor RPMs up to match the RPMs of the gear you are wanting to change to.
Higher motor RPMs when downshifting but most times it's about the same RPM as shifting up. The sweet spot is what you are looking to find
On Big Rigs it is around 14-17 hundreds.

Posted: 8/1/2009 12:27:35 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You'll appear a lot cooler if you call it "double-clutching"

Double clutching is different than not using the clutch at all. Double clutching refers to using the clutch twice per shift, you pause for a split second in neutral, release the clutch for a spit second, then push it back in and complete the shift.

And a trans with syncros doesn't NEED to be double-clutched..... the technique was used for every shift in the old, non-syncro days.

Yeah, but you don't want to risk blowing the welds on the intake.

Posted: 8/1/2009 12:31:30 PM EDT

[#9]

I would never do it in my mustangs but I could do it pretty good on my race quad. Gotta hit it in the right spot.

Posted: 8/1/2009 12:33:05 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Is that the same as heel and toe shifting?

Not exactly. Heel/Toe is using the right foot toe on the brake and the right foot heel on the throttle to help you match revs for a downshift going into a turn where you want (need) the shift to be as smooth as possible so you can get through and out of the corner as quickly as possible. The left foot would operate the clutch during this operation.

Shifting without the clutch, if done correctly, will not damage anything. Done incorrectly it does damage the transmission and done horribly it could ruin a transmission.

Posted: 8/1/2009 1:25:59 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Ok, so is it possible to do so in a car, and does it hurt the car not to use the clutch?

I believe that is how crashbox transmissions can be used.

Posted: 8/1/2009 1:39:02 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Yes, it is possible.

No, you shouldn't do it. It's very hard on the transmission's synchronizers.

Why?

If you match the revs and the engine speed for the gear, the synchros don't even do anything.

RF

Posted: 8/1/2009 1:55:36 PM EDT

[#13]

I see the corners are rounded off the dog collar gears on my trx250r transmission from when the previous owner probably did clutchless shifts. Not a good idea on any motorcycle style sequential shift transmission.

If you match the rpm, you can shift without wearing on the synchros. In most cars its hard to get it exact. Something to try out, but i wouldn't make a regular habit of it.

Same with shifting out of gear by equalizing load on the engine and drivetrain w/o clutch. If you do it perfectly it doesn't wear

Posted: 8/1/2009 1:59:27 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
I drove home 600 miles w/o a clutch, time your stop lights, start in gear, feel the mesh.

Gun boards have the greatest women on earth.

Posted: 8/1/2009 2:05:32 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm pretty sure you can push start just about anything with a stick shift. Even a tractor trailer.

It can be done on auto's that have a Torque converter lockup switch, too.

Actually, it can't. The clutch in the torque converter that provides the lock up is hydraulically appllied. The hydraulic pressure is provided by the pump, which is driven by a direct connection to the engine through the torque converter(typically, the front hub of the converter.)The only automatic transmissions that I recall that could be push started were some really old ones(early 60's and before)that had a rear pump that was driven off of the output shaft.

As far as shifting without a clutch, as others have said, its possible but I don't know that its practical in a car. It takes some practice to do it right, and the cost of screwing up can get quite high. I can see using if you are in a bind, but not necessarily day to day driving.

Posted: 8/1/2009 2:08:00 PM EDT

[#16]

I have a 93 Integra that I shift without using the clutch. Just wind up the gears a bit and it eases into gear while the RPMs are coming down. It goes in when it's ready.

This car has 389,000 miles on it as well.

Posted: 8/1/2009 2:11:26 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This comversation is interesting. I started driving a manual transmission at the age of 27 years. Before my use was limited to a few toyota light trucks and a ford 1t flatbed 4x4 with big tires, on the farm. It was crucial to clutch before braking with the ford.
A few weeks ago I learned you can start a manual jeep by rolling it down hill, without using the normal start. Letting off the clutch in a certain gear did it. It was kind of a put put put before starting though .

its interesting what you learn new everyday.

Anyway, can I do this in a jeep rubicon, 06. its not stock.

I'm pretty sure you can push start just about anything with a stick shift. Even a tractor trailer.

A lot of newer manual tranny cars were engineered to prevent starting by rolling it in gear.....safety concerns etc. etc.

Just like you used to be able to "jump" a car out of a ditch by hitting the starter while the car was in gear.
Their is an interlock now that prevents you from doing that also......though Jeep was smart and made it possible to
disengage the interlock on the wrangler series so you could "jump" a jeep using the starter.

I believe I understand what you're talking about and if so, that's a neutral safety switch. Easy to get around. My hyundai had one and I just bridged the wire so now I can jump my Hyundai Elantra out of ditches.

Posted: 8/1/2009 2:16:39 PM EDT

[#18]

This just came up on Car Talk

Posted: 8/1/2009 2:17:44 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I never thought about it but heal and toe would be on an uphill stop, left heel on brake, left toe on clutch, right toe on gas.

Proper heel & toe is to use left foot for clutch, and while downshifting and braking (using right tow for brake) blip the throttle with right heel.

I don't think I'm coordinated enough to clutch and brake with the same foot.

Posted: 8/1/2009 2:17:50 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
I never thought about it but heal and toe would be on an uphill stop, left heel on brake, left toe on clutch, right toe on gas.

Proper heel & toe is to use left foot for clutch, and while downshifting and braking (using right tow for brake) blip the throttle with right heel.

I don't think I'm coordinated enough to clutch and brake with the same foot.

Posted: 8/1/2009 3:22:14 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yes, it is possible.

No, you shouldn't do it. It's very hard on the transmission's synchronizers.

Why?

If you match the revs and the engine speed for the gear, the synchros don't even do anything.

RF

This. Double clutch like driving the big rigs is typically easier though. Get that technique down in your POV and the transmission should last a good long time. As I understand it, (not taking into account the clutch, etc), the syncros are what typically need repair in a transmission. OTR drivers put incredibly long miles on their transmissions but have to double clutch because those transmissions are built without the syncros.

I've double clutched for decades in my vehicles and have never had to have a transmission repaired.

Posted: 8/1/2009 3:59:00 PM EDT

[#22]

Ask any military driver who has any time in a deuce and a half about it. That damn clutch pedal is TOUGH to push to the floor.
We had one in amy old reserve unit that had to be driven by someone who had a pretty stron foot. Anyone under 150lbs had a hell of a time.