[ARCHIVED THREAD] - CAV ARMS LOSES FFL TO ATF and OWNER ADMITS TO ILLEGALLY SELLING 40 GUNS, COULD DO TIME. (Page 4 of 34)
|
Quoted: The ATF cited violations dating to 2000, including failure to keep a weapons inventory, failure to conduct background checks on at least 25 purchasers and failure to report a multiple-handgun sale. Let's not forget this. The rules are the rules, like 'em or not. Let's not forget that all charges relating to the violation of those rules were dropped. |
|
Could this be one of those "sell all your guns to a buddy or relative for $1" until the court case or divorce is over type deals? The type of action most often associated with the recommendations in most of arfcom's divorce threads? Following a search of Cavalry's offices and Nealon's Mesa home in 2008, agents said Nealon had illegally sold weapons to out-of-state buyers, more than 40 of those to a California resident who often stored those weapons at Nealon's home. This so be something as simple as selling/gifting your son some guns while he was a student at an out of state college but still possessing a home state drivers license. |
|
Quoted:
Throw the book at them and something will stick. Thats how this went down. As far as the plea, eventually your funds for a legal defense run out. However the prosecution never runs out of tax dollars. Do a bit of googling on the financial issues that most prosecutors are facing due to the economy. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like bullshit to me. ANY record-keeping errors can easily be turned into "oh he did this INTENTIONALLY TO HIDE it!" What a load of crap. true but it sounds like he sold at least 40 "off the books". once you become an FFL you enter into a whole new realm of legality. Even if it was not done with malice, negligent recording in that industry is VERY stupid. Just a foolish thing to do - very foolish. |
|
Quoted:
There are a number of, I'm sure, very good people who work for the BATFE. I'm sure they are upstanding and righteous and they carry out their duties with justice and fairness in mind. That being said....I don't trust or care for the BATFE. I try to be as reasonable of a dude as possible and I'm not some tinfoil hat wearing loon, but I don't trust the ATF as an organization farther than I can throw it because there are too many documented, provable examples that show the organization is ate the hell up. Residency checks in Richmond, dragnetting AR-15 owners in Virginia in the aftermath of the DC sniper episode.... No sir...I don't trust 'em. Cav Arms may have been 100% in the wrong here, legally. I don't know. I don't know anyone at Cav Arms or who they dealt with. I never even bought a single item from them... All I know is that I don't trust the BATFE for an unbiased account of what happened. If I were made unquestioned dictator tomorrow, my first act would be to disband the BATFE and to strip the replacement organization of any and all discretionary authority. The organization has proven to me over the years that they can't handle it. Can you elaborate on the bolded, red portion? |
|
Quoted:
Sounds like the resale value of those lowers just went up. A bunch. I wonder who, if anyone, will end up with the tooling and IP for the lowers. Or maybe this will sink the resale value. Why buy a lower that might be seized by the Feds? What are Cav-Aid lowers going for in the EE? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Shawn nealon admitted illegal sale of weapons , Guilty. It pretty much comes down to that for me. If he hadn't done that, I'd still maintain the entire BATFE raid and everything coming from it was a farce. But when the guy stands up and says, "Guilty".... 
Are you fucking kidding me? This is a well known tactic of gov agencies and one that was discussed many times in the huge thread. They throw the book at someone, tear their life upside down, confiscate their property and they just sit back and wait. They the huge powers and checkbook of the gov to spend you into submission. They have nothing to lose and the individual has everything to lose and limited resources to fight. In the end they come to you with limitless list of bullshit charges that you can no longer fight and say "We can make this go away if you just say you were guilty on this one little charge" and at that point you are beat. You sign the paper so you can just get it all over with because you are out of options. We knew this might happen, it was discussed many times in the Cav threads. I'm completely shocked that some of you are surprised that this was the outcome. My only question was how hard the final blow would be. would it be a felony? Jail time? (standard is 366 days so the target loses his gun rights), loss of FFL? Anyone with any brains knew that innocent or not Shawn would probably in the end be bankrupted into giving up something, the only question was what. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The ATF cited violations dating to 2000, including failure to keep a weapons inventory, failure to conduct background checks on at least 25 purchasers and failure to report a multiple-handgun sale.
Let's not forget this. The rules are the rules, like 'em or not. Let's not forget that all charges relating to the violation of those rules were dropped. I'm sure none of you will remember, and only site staff can confirm (since the thread was disappeared), but I broke the news here that Cav got raided. I initially supported them, even though I had heard some things from other local dealer's that indicated there was a chance that support was misplaced. As it turns out, they may have been right. I'm sorry, but I will never plead guilty to a crime I didn't commit. Ever. Take me to trial. If I'm innocent, I'll prove it. If you railroad me... Well, we won't go there. As I said in the Sabre thread: It is my belief that the whole FFL scheme is unconstitutional. The ATF (when it comes to firearms) is an unconstitutional agency. So, the option is to totally ignore the ATF and run your business. If you decide you want to stay within what they say is the law, and apply for an FFL, you agree to play by their rules; constitutional or not. Once you do that, you can't claim constitutionality anymore, because you've explicitly declared that you believe they have the right to regulate how you run your business. |
|
I don't give a shit if CA sold 40 lowers to Lil' Wayne, 50 Cent, Tom Cruise or anyone else. I don't care if they broke the law.
Quoted:
Fuck the ATF and their jackbooted thug tactics. Might have to buy some medical supplies from CA, overpriced though they may be. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They wrote that they made mistakes, so they were in the wrong. The ATF dosent go arround fucking with people for no reason. Wheres all the ATF bashers now? CavArms= fuckups. Go piss up a rope. When they start handing out brownshirts I am sure you will have your hand out asking for yours. The ATF has taken two years to trump up charges after seizing all records, inventory, personal property of employees and yet you believe the ATF? You think a man should go to prison for 5 years over a paperwork compliance issue? Over a gun that the .gov says is 'illegally sold'? Seriously? For all the cries for Freedom and Liberty you think paperwork is a federal crime? TRG And on top of that, the laws he (allegedly) broke shouldn't even BE laws to begin with. Fuck the ATF. They interpret laws however they see fit. There is the crux. Same as I say with a NFA item - unsafe until they get my $200 and then it's A-OK. A huge crock of shit. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
There are a number of, I'm sure, very good people who work for the BATFE. I'm sure they are upstanding and righteous and they carry out their duties with justice and fairness in mind. That being said....I don't trust or care for the BATFE. I try to be as reasonable of a dude as possible and I'm not some tinfoil hat wearing loon, but I don't trust the ATF as an organization farther than I can throw it because there are too many documented, provable examples that show the organization is ate the hell up. Residency checks in Richmond, dragnetting AR-15 owners in Virginia in the aftermath of the DC sniper episode.... No sir...I don't trust 'em. Cav Arms may have been 100% in the wrong here, legally. I don't know. I don't know anyone at Cav Arms or who they dealt with. I never even bought a single item from them... All I know is that I don't trust the BATFE for an unbiased account of what happened. If I were made unquestioned dictator tomorrow, my first act would be to disband the BATFE and to strip the replacement organization of any and all discretionary authority. The organization has proven to me over the years that they can't handle it. Can you elaborate on the bolded, red portion? http://www.gunweek.com/2005/atf0910.html http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0707/final.pdf |
|
Quoted: I admit coming in laet t the saga, but reading between the lines here's what I get: 1) ATF gets it's panties in a twist over a s/n issue and instead of addressing it as a technical problem, goes the criminal investigation route. 2) "Criminal" investigation escalates in urgency, resulting in full out "Grab everything that isn't nailed down" raid. Piercing the corporate veil, they raid the owner's house as well. 3) Raid reveals nothing definite regarding the original issue which, combined with some congressional pushback on revoking licenses for paperwork errors, leads them to drop those charges. But the raid on the owner's house produced some head scratching over who "owned" what regarding his personal gun collection. So now they go after the individual, while maintaining that the investigation is about CavArms the corporation. 4) Everyone gets tired, so a plea deal is cut - The "company" pleads guilty to questionable charges, and in return the gov't doesn't seek jail time for the owner. The manufacturing license gets revoked, which was the initial intent of the ATF, so someone retires with a pat on the back instead of a boot in the ass. About right? Sounds about right. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The ATF dosent go arround fucking with people for no reason. As stated above, there are too many documented accounts to the opposite. name one innocent person that the ATF just came and fucked with for no reason? how about the dead childern at waco, do they count as being fucked with? No - they were trying to save them with the CS gas
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The ATF dosent go arround fucking with people for no reason. As stated above, there are too many documented accounts to the opposite. name one innocent person that the ATF just came and fucked with for no reason? 
WACO, Randy Weaver Red's Trading Post? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They wrote that they made mistakes, so they were in the wrong. The ATF dosent go arround fucking with people for no reason. Wheres all the ATF bashers now? CavArms= fuckups. Go piss up a rope. When they start handing out brownshirts I am sure you will have your hand out asking for yours. The ATF has taken two years to trump up charges after seizing all records, inventory, personal property of employees and yet you believe the ATF? You think a man should go to prison for 5 years over a paperwork compliance issue? Over a gun that the .gov says is 'illegally sold'? Seriously? For all the cries for Freedom and Liberty you think paperwork is a federal crime? TRG shut your hole Shawn nealon admitted illegal sale of weapons , Guilty. After dealing with the BATFE seizing all my assets and holding everything I own without any charges or even a hint of charges (for years), I might be willing to plead to some bullshit charges too. Yea, but would you plead to a felony for something you didn't do? You'd be surprised things you'd do when put under enough pressure. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Am I the only one who is sick of people on the internet or news whine and cry they diden't do anything wrong but it turns out they are guilty as shit? So says the ATF though . . . . First off, thanks for replying to most every post in this thread. Secondly, what the crap are you talking about? |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Shawn nealon admitted illegal sale of weapons , Guilty. It pretty much comes down to that for me. If he hadn't done that, I'd still maintain the entire BATFE raid and everything coming from it was a farce. But when the guy stands up and says, "Guilty".... Are you fucking kidding me? This is a well known tactic of gov agencies and one that was discussed many times in the huge thread. They throw the book at someone, tear their life upside down, confiscate their property and they just sit back and wait. They the huge powers and checkbook of the gov to spend you into submission. They have nothing to lose and the individual has everything to lose and limited resources to fight. In the end they come to you with limitless list of bullshit charges that you can no longer fight and say "We can make this go away if you just say you were guilty on this one little charge" and at that point you are beat. You sign the paper so you can just get it all over with because you are out of options. We knew this might happen, it was discussed many times in the Cav threads. I'm completely shocked that some of you are surprised that this was the outcome. My only question was how hard the final blow would be. would it be a felony? Jail time? (standard is 366 days so the target loses his gun rights), loss of FFL? Anyone with any brains knew that innocent or not Shawn would probably in the end be bankrupted into giving up something, the only question was what. I dunno, but I think I'd rather take my chances with a jury rather than cop a plea to a felony I didn't commit. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Time for two Arfcom staples..... play stupid games, win stupid prizes http://www.theboxset.com/images/reviewcaptures/612capture_tombstone03.jpg i dunno, i'm surprised at the hive's inability/unwillingness to throw out "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" in some cases. eta: also stunned to see not a single mention of "ASSAULT RIFLES ZOMFG!!!" in the article... Well they like to think the gun laws have some foundation in truth and fairness, when in fact they are 99% fabricated bullshit. They love to chest thump, and villify "rebels" but in the end, they'd surrender without a fight and become the slaves they already are in spirit. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hmmm. Am I the only person who felt like I was lead to believe that CavArms had no idea what the ATF was hunting for and were never charged with anything even after all this time? I bet there are going to be some pissed off folks who donated to their defense fund. Above. I am among you, but I withhold judgement until I hear what CavArms has to say about all this  IF we ever hear. |
|
Quoted:
If this is true, I no longer feel sorry for them. +1 With holding judgement until CavArms airs their rebuttal (if ever) but if the article is true as written, than I have no sympathy. I don't buy the "pleading guilty to get it all over BS" if I'm innocent I will not plead guilty period, if you want to try to rail road me, well I'll cross that bridge if I have to but it won't be a pretty sight. |
|
I've seen first hand how you can keep your A&D books straight and the ATF can still find a way to fuck you in the compliance department. They have the time and willpower to fuck you over if they have the inclination.
I truly feel for Shawn. Taking the plea was probably the least painful way out. |
|
The biggest problem I see in this topic is....... guess what boys
There should be no crime of illegal sale of firearms. There should be no such thing as an illegal sale or an illegal firearm. but some of the big government fan boys will disagree with me. VOTE Libertarian next time....we won't have this problem |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
They wrote that they made mistakes, so they were in the wrong. The ATF dosent go arround fucking with people for no reason. Wheres all the ATF bashers now? CavArms= fuckups. Nope. F-troop has very good reasons to fuck with people. They don't believe in private firearms ownership (as an entity, by their repeated and documented abuses of gun owners e.g. the need for GOPA of 86 [which we STILL got screwed on]) Do you know there are more than 6 thousand people in prison over paperwork, tax stamp, $200 bullshit just because a hunk of metal isn't the way the fucking government says it should be. (actually not even the .gov It's the misruling on the Miller case by the Supreme court.) Bullshit laws that shouldn't be there in the first place cost a man money and possibly freedom and people like you are fine with it. Yeah - because it just happens to NOT be the hunk of metal they are holding or their freedom. 
I'm glad someone gets it. Big talkers around here are plainly talking out their ass. They'd cower in a corner and become slaves rather than fight for anything.
|
|
Everyone calm down a bit.
We do not know the details of the "40 guns at his house for an out of state buyer" thing. Those who supported CavArms , including the proprietors of ARFCOM and EdSr in particular are entitled to those details on perhaps a moral level, but mostly we're going to be stuck with speculation. We can surmise that because we're talking about guns alleged to be stored at a residence, that we're not talking about a paperwork snafu arising from a commercial transaction. That could be understood and lamented as too high a cost in terms of red tape. Its not that. Its guns kept at a home. We can further surmise that the guns were probably kept at his home because they would not have been legal in California, the state of residence of the putative buyer. This sounds like personal collection crap. These aren't all CavArms receivers, in other words. To me the question is: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Was it the 40 guns of the California guy that got the ATF sniffing around, they jumped to conclusions and thought the owner of the company was a "bad guy", and then they took down the company believing they had uncovered an ZOMG big gun running operation. That's how I'm leaning, because it would fit the typical profile of how these things come up: Someone gets divorce or someone goes to jail, and in that process someone else close to them gets a finger pointed at him / her over "stupid" shit. Divorcing wives drop dimes to injur or hurt; Defendants going to the pokey drop dimes to try and buy a shorter sentence. On the other hand, it could be that they were after CavArms on the serialization issue and swept the personal issues in along with that when they found they had nothing really to stand on with the CavArms business. Based on all available information, I'm leaning toward the first scenario because the other stuff happens all the time (one of the big gun makers had an incident with a machine that got "stuck" in the 1980s and cranked off 200+ receivers with the same serial number!). Nothing that was alleged about CavArms itself seems to have justified the ZOMG GRAB EVERYTHING AND SHUT EM DOWN sort of thing. But if the they investigated the personal transfer issues first, and thought the tip of the iceberg they uncovered was some kind of gun running thing (instead of general stupidity style fuckery that seems to me occurred), I can see the ATF going nuts. Which scenario? Another scenario? Some day we'll know. But let me give the site some context and some thoughts: 1. Generally, plea agreements contain language that lets the government re-fuck you if they decide something you said to them that they relied on in giving the plea was not true. For that reason, lawyers tell their clients to STFU even after the plea so do not expect a "tell all" expose from Shawn here. 2. Sentencing has not occurred. His lawyes will have a muzzle on him for sure before it does. 3. There will be public records that detail the allegations, and once the investigation is complete they will be subject to FOIA requests. That means that he will probably share them. After all, people will be able to find and post them anyway. Also, the public records are one thing that can be shared without sticking one's neck out. 4. The ATF lies, misrepresents things, and makes up evidence. They LITERALLY have a documented history of making things up. Can't get a rifle to repeat? No problem, load up some soft primers and try again. This is documented misconduct. It means they do not get the benefit of the doubt. They do not get automatic credibility. But they have tremendous power to destroy people and that means people will be careful what they say. Someday we'll know the whole story, but it may take a while. If there is a lesson it is: Remember those two things: Divorces, or someone going to jail. Almost all really bad instances of someone getting plowed out of left field come out of those situations. Don't do stupid shit, or hang out with stupid people. Doing stupid shit can lead in a divorce to someone telling others about your stupid shit. Having stupid people as friends gets you in the asteroid belt of destruction when one of the friends gets pinched. |
|
Quoted:
I dunno, but I think I'd rather take my chances with a jury rather than cop a plea to a felony I didn't commit. Really? You do know that 50 - 70% of those people probably voted for Obama right? and the rest of them probably have a very limited understanding of gun laws. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The ATF dosent go arround fucking with people for no reason. As stated above, there are too many documented accounts to the opposite. name one innocent person that the ATF just came and fucked with for no reason? David Olofson. You mean the guy who installed M16 fire control parts in an AR15, and went around showing all of his friends how he could get it to burst if he held the selector the right way? I'm not saying that BATF is a bunch of angels, but sometimes idiots bring it on themselves. I'm hoping against the odds that this isn't the case with Shawn. |
|
Every FFL has heard the horror stories of the ATF and they heard these stories way before they became FFL's.
My point is every FFL knows the rules before they play the game. If you don't like the rules or the possible consequences you shouldn't play the fucking game, period. You cant claim ignorance as an FFL, you loose that luxury. At the very least Shawn knew he was pushing the gray area, he must have, he's not a stupid guy. You don't want any "gray area" as an FFL. I've lost all sympathy for them, as in my eyes they have been very misleading with the whole "We have no idea why the ATF knocked down our doors, none whatsoever" I don't like the ATF as much as the next guy, but like them or not if you want to hold an FFL you get to play by their rules. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Following a search of Cavalry's offices and Nealon's Mesa home in 2008, agents said Nealon had illegally sold more than 40 weapons to a California resident who often stored those weapons at Nealon's home. this is how I read it. So he sold them to an out of stater, but then the firearms never left the State? Only in the bizarro world of BATFE regulations does this even remotely make sense. |
|
Quoted:
Am I the only one who is sick of people on the internet or news whine and cry they diden't do anything wrong but it turns out they are guilty as shit? For someone 'defending' the ATF's actions, you have ALOT of posts in the EE offering guns for sale... # Search Results 1. WTB new condition M16A1 barrel mike12345 (October 11, 2009 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 2. OKAY ind. MAGS NEW, body armor Rifle Plates L & XL , Lots of parts! mike12345 (September 26, 2009 - 11 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 3. WTB 12ga Hornady TAP 00B mike12345 (June 2, 2009 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - Misc Firearm Related ] 4. SPF mike12345 (November 21, 2008 - 14 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 5. bushy A4 reciever stripped, colt 601 pins, arredondo mag well, matach BUIS, grippod,G21 clipdraw mike12345 (November 20, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 6. SPF mike12345 (November 6, 2008 - 12 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 7. Smith vortex 3068 for AR10 SPF mike12345 (November 6, 2008 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 8. withdrawn mike12345 (November 4, 2008 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: NFA Firearms & Parts ] 9. 4 poss. trigger group, M9 bayonet, Cproducts mags, matach sight, more stuff added! mike12345 (October 23, 2008 - 12 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 10. WTB COLT A1 20in barrel. mike12345 (October 15, 2008 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 11. WTB LIKE NEW A1 upper 20in LW barrel. mike12345 (September 14, 2008 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 12. small parts, KAC forward grip, Saiga parts, XD stuff, pouches, vest, flechettes. mike12345 (September 10, 2008 - 19 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 13. withdrawn mike12345 (September 1, 2008 - 9 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 14. LMT m203 QD mount $150.00 SPF mike12345 (August 17, 2008 - 5 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: NFA Firearms & Parts ] 15. Surefire M900A blue, Colt mags, M203 stuff, .45 XD stuff, Ace AKFX stock, ACU pouches, KAC mike12345 (August 2, 2008 - 27 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 16. withdrawn mike12345 (July 4, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Ammunition ] 17. Trijicon reflex RX01-23 with ARMS #15 $SPF mike12345 (July 2, 2008 - 7 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Optics & Sight Equipment ] 18. glock 22 .40S&W mike12345 (June 17, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 19. WTB Smith enterprises Aluminum bolt carrier. mike12345 (April 22, 2008 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 20. Larue mount, jard trigger, buffer & spring, NEW A1 handguards mike12345 (April 22, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 21. remove mike12345 (April 21, 2008 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 22. WTB M202 66mm rocket launcher. mike12345 (April 9, 2008 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - Everything Else ] 23. Bushmaster lower & ARMS #50M-CV handguard for sale! mike12345 (April 8, 2008 - 9 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 24. found mike12345 (March 30, 2008 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - Misc Firearm Related ] 25. WTB A1 upper NO Case deflector mike12345 (March 30, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 26. WTS Bushmaster lower mike12345 (March 19, 2008 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Complete Firearms & Lower Receivers ] 27. WTS AR10 lower SPF mike12345 (March 12, 2008 - 8 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 28. glock .45 mags. SPF mike12345 (March 11, 2008 - 8 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handgun Mags, Parts, & Accessories ] 29. withdrawn mike12345 (February 10, 2008 - 13 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 30. withdrawn mike12345 (February 9, 2008 - 10 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 31. CTC laser grips for glock $130.00SPF mike12345 (January 21, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handgun Mags, Parts, & Accessories ] 32. Armalte AR10A2 upper with SWS handguards, vortex, magpul rail pannels for sale SPF mike12345 (January 20, 2008 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 33. remove mike12345 (January 13, 2008 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 34. withdrawn mike12345 (January 1, 2008 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 35. M16A1 upper, LMT bolt carrier, lots of parts for sale. Cheap! mike12345 (December 30, 2007 - 14 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 36. withdrawn. mike12345 (December 30, 2007 - 7 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 37. remove mike12345 (December 13, 2007 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 38. List of parts and mags FS. mike12345 (December 7, 2007 - 9 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 39. remove mike12345 (December 5, 2007 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 40. spf mike12345 (November 28, 2007 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 41. spf mike12345 (November 28, 2007 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 42. SPF mike12345 (November 26, 2007 - 8 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 43. 1 glock 17C with Four 33rd glock factory mags. SPF mike12345 (November 22, 2007 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 44. Glock 17C SPF mike12345 (November 20, 2007 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 45. remove mike12345 (November 19, 2007 - 9 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 46. found and bought, thanks. mike12345 (October 28, 2007 - 6 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 47. sold mike12345 (September 20, 2007 - 6 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 48. Saiga 12 10rd AGP arms mags, $40.00ea shipped price reduction mike12345 (September 19, 2007 - 13 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Rifle & Shotgun Magazines ] 49. mags & Parts for sale. mike12345 (August 26, 2007 - 20 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 50. remove mike12345 (August 21, 2007 - 7 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 51. remove mike12345 (August 20, 2007 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 52. remove mike12345 (August 20, 2007 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 53. withdrawn mike12345 (August 8, 2007 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 54. WTB xm607 carbine triangle handguard set. mike12345 (August 8, 2007 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 55. AR10 uppers, mags, barrel, lots of parts, picture Added! mike12345 (July 28, 2007 - 17 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 56. tapco T6 stock, ace stock adaptor, side folding mech, command arms grip, other AK parts. mike12345 (July 24, 2007 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AK Mags, Parts & Accessories ] 57. Ar15 uppers, mags, barrels, lots of parts, Pictures Added! mike12345 (July 21, 2007 - 24 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - New - Uppers ] 58. remove mike12345 (July 17, 2007 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handgun Mags, Parts, & Accessories ] 59. remove mike12345 (July 16, 2007 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 60. removed mike12345 (July 10, 2007 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 61. 2 Valtro PM5 12ga 7rd mags NEW! SPF mike12345 (July 3, 2007 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Rifle & Shotgun Magazines ] 62. 1 saiga12, 1 remmington 870 wingmaster. mike12345 (July 2, 2007 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Rifles and Shotguns ] 63. . mike12345 (April 29, 2007 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 64. I want a colt m16a1/SP1 barrel 20in mike12345 (April 17, 2007 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 65. WTB ARMS #53 SIR for AR10 carbine. mike12345 (October 15, 2006 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 66. WTB feed chute in 5.56mm if i can get it. mike12345 (June 27, 2006 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - Misc Firearm Related ] 67. remove mike12345 (May 17, 2006 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - New - Lower Receiver ] 68. remove mike12345 (May 17, 2006 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 69. SOLD PF mike12345 (May 17, 2006 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 70. SPF mike12345 (May 13, 2006 - 16 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Magazines ] 71. valtro PM5 magazines, glock +2rd mag extencions, .410ga thunder five, 50rd 10/22mag + other stuff. mike12345 (January 14, 2006 - 13 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Rifle & Shotgun Magazines ] TRG |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since CavArms can't/won't respond directly to questions asking for clarification about the points in the article I unfortunately have to assume the legal facts that are reported in the article are actually true. The fact is, this is no longer a case of an unjustified raid on a business that was doing nothing illegal. Accounting mistakes? Booking keeping mistakes? Not really. 40 off the books sales to someone from California is not a minor over sight and this was not a witch hunt without basis. If you just plead to a felony and were awaiting sentencing would you get on the internet and start spouting about how the BATF railroaded you, shot your poodle and put beans in your chili? Judges get pissed when you show up for sentencing and find that you have been saying you were innocent since you plead guilty. Right, wrong or somewhere in the middle the time between a plea and sentencing is not the time to be posting about what happened on the internet. I agree with your point entirely. I understand, which is why I placed "can't/won't" in my statement. I suspect a large part of it is "can't", and I'd sure love to hear the CavArms side of it some day. BUT –– there appears to be no disputing that there was more than just some paper work oversight going on at CavArms. I think you can explain a firearm or two that didn't quite get the paper work correct on the transfer forms, but 40 firearms sold to a CA resident and undocumented? They no longer get the benefit of the doubt from me. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The ATF dosent go arround fucking with people for no reason. As stated above, there are too many documented accounts to the opposite. name one innocent person that the ATF just came and fucked with for no reason? David Olofson. You mean the guy who installed M16 fire control parts in an AR15, and went around showing all of his friends how he could get it to burst if he held the selector the right way? I'm not saying that BATF is a bunch of angels, but sometimes idiots bring it on themselves. I'm hoping against the odds that this isn't the case with Shawn.
Oh, you mean the guy that loaned his AR to a "friend", it doubled, RO freaked, and "friend" makes up a story about Olafson bragging in order to avoid arrest? It's as LEAST as likely. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: For someone 'defending' the ATF's actions, you have ALOT of posts in the EE offering guns for sale...Am I the only one who is sick of people on the internet or news whine and cry they diden't do anything wrong but it turns out they are guilty as shit? TRG I'm sorry but I don't see the connection. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since CavArms can't/won't respond directly to questions asking for clarification about the points in the article I unfortunately have to assume the legal facts that are reported in the article are actually true. The fact is, this is no longer a case of an unjustified raid on a business that was doing nothing illegal. Accounting mistakes? Booking keeping mistakes? Not really. 40 off the books sales to someone from California is not a minor over sight and this was not a witch hunt without basis. If you just plead to a felony and were awaiting sentencing would you get on the internet and start spouting about how the BATF railroaded you, shot your poodle and put beans in your chili? Judges get pissed when you show up for sentencing and find that you have been saying you were innocent since you plead guilty. Right, wrong or somewhere in the middle the time between a plea and sentencing is not the time to be posting about what happened on the internet. I agree with your point entirely. I understand, which is why I placed "can't/won't" in my statement. I suspect a large part of it is "can't", and I'd sure love to hear the CavArms side of it some day. BUT –– there appears to be no disputing that there was more than just some paper work oversight going on at CavArms. I think you can explain a firearm or two that didn't quite get the paper work correct on the transfer forms, but 40 firearms sold to a CA resident and undocumented? They no longer get the benefit of the doubt from me. I believe everything I read in the paper too! TRG |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since CavArms can't/won't respond directly to questions asking for clarification about the points in the article I unfortunately have to assume the legal facts that are reported in the article are actually true. The fact is, this is no longer a case of an unjustified raid on a business that was doing nothing illegal. Accounting mistakes? Booking keeping mistakes? Not really. 40 off the books sales to someone from California is not a minor over sight and this was not a witch hunt without basis. "Those weapons included: nine 9mm handguns, five .45-caliber handguns, five .22-caliber handguns, five .223 rifles, three 12-gauge shotguns, two .38-caliber handguns, two .44-caliber handguns, a .380-caliber handgun, a .308 rifle, a 7.62x39mm rifle, a 5.45x39mm rifle and a .357 rifle. " Most of that isn't even CavArms stuff, AFAIK. These may have been personal guns, not required to be on any books. We don't know. They are required to go through an FFL if sold to an out of state resident. CavArms should be well aware of that aspect of the law. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Am I the only one who is sick of people on the internet or news whine and cry they diden't do anything wrong but it turns out they are guilty as shit? For someone 'defending' the ATF's actions, you have ALOT of posts in the EE offering guns for sale... # Search Results 1. WTB new condition M16A1 barrel mike12345 (October 11, 2009 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 2. OKAY ind. MAGS NEW, body armor Rifle Plates L & XL , Lots of parts! mike12345 (September 26, 2009 - 11 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 3. WTB 12ga Hornady TAP 00B mike12345 (June 2, 2009 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - Misc Firearm Related ] 4. SPF mike12345 (November 21, 2008 - 14 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 5. bushy A4 reciever stripped, colt 601 pins, arredondo mag well, matach BUIS, grippod,G21 clipdraw mike12345 (November 20, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 6. SPF mike12345 (November 6, 2008 - 12 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 7. Smith vortex 3068 for AR10 SPF mike12345 (November 6, 2008 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 8. withdrawn mike12345 (November 4, 2008 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: NFA Firearms & Parts ] 9. 4 poss. trigger group, M9 bayonet, Cproducts mags, matach sight, more stuff added! mike12345 (October 23, 2008 - 12 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 10. WTB COLT A1 20in barrel. mike12345 (October 15, 2008 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 11. WTB LIKE NEW A1 upper 20in LW barrel. mike12345 (September 14, 2008 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 12. small parts, KAC forward grip, Saiga parts, XD stuff, pouches, vest, flechettes. mike12345 (September 10, 2008 - 19 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 13. withdrawn mike12345 (September 1, 2008 - 9 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 14. LMT m203 QD mount $150.00 SPF mike12345 (August 17, 2008 - 5 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: NFA Firearms & Parts ] 15. Surefire M900A blue, Colt mags, M203 stuff, .45 XD stuff, Ace AKFX stock, ACU pouches, KAC mike12345 (August 2, 2008 - 27 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 16. withdrawn mike12345 (July 4, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Ammunition ] 17. Trijicon reflex RX01-23 with ARMS #15 $SPF mike12345 (July 2, 2008 - 7 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Optics & Sight Equipment ] 18. glock 22 .40S&W mike12345 (June 17, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 19. WTB Smith enterprises Aluminum bolt carrier. mike12345 (April 22, 2008 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 20. Larue mount, jard trigger, buffer & spring, NEW A1 handguards mike12345 (April 22, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 21. remove mike12345 (April 21, 2008 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 22. WTB M202 66mm rocket launcher. mike12345 (April 9, 2008 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - Everything Else ] 23. Bushmaster lower & ARMS #50M-CV handguard for sale! mike12345 (April 8, 2008 - 9 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 24. found mike12345 (March 30, 2008 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - Misc Firearm Related ] 25. WTB A1 upper NO Case deflector mike12345 (March 30, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 26. WTS Bushmaster lower mike12345 (March 19, 2008 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Complete Firearms & Lower Receivers ] 27. WTS AR10 lower SPF mike12345 (March 12, 2008 - 8 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 28. glock .45 mags. SPF mike12345 (March 11, 2008 - 8 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handgun Mags, Parts, & Accessories ] 29. withdrawn mike12345 (February 10, 2008 - 13 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 30. withdrawn mike12345 (February 9, 2008 - 10 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 31. CTC laser grips for glock $130.00SPF mike12345 (January 21, 2008 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handgun Mags, Parts, & Accessories ] 32. Armalte AR10A2 upper with SWS handguards, vortex, magpul rail pannels for sale SPF mike12345 (January 20, 2008 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 33. remove mike12345 (January 13, 2008 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 34. withdrawn mike12345 (January 1, 2008 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 35. M16A1 upper, LMT bolt carrier, lots of parts for sale. Cheap! mike12345 (December 30, 2007 - 14 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 36. withdrawn. mike12345 (December 30, 2007 - 7 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 37. remove mike12345 (December 13, 2007 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 38. List of parts and mags FS. mike12345 (December 7, 2007 - 9 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 39. remove mike12345 (December 5, 2007 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 40. spf mike12345 (November 28, 2007 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 41. spf mike12345 (November 28, 2007 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 42. SPF mike12345 (November 26, 2007 - 8 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 43. 1 glock 17C with Four 33rd glock factory mags. SPF mike12345 (November 22, 2007 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 44. Glock 17C SPF mike12345 (November 20, 2007 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 45. remove mike12345 (November 19, 2007 - 9 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 46. found and bought, thanks. mike12345 (October 28, 2007 - 6 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 47. sold mike12345 (September 20, 2007 - 6 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 48. Saiga 12 10rd AGP arms mags, $40.00ea shipped price reduction mike12345 (September 19, 2007 - 13 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Rifle & Shotgun Magazines ] 49. mags & Parts for sale. mike12345 (August 26, 2007 - 20 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - Used ] 50. remove mike12345 (August 21, 2007 - 7 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 51. remove mike12345 (August 20, 2007 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 52. remove mike12345 (August 20, 2007 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 53. withdrawn mike12345 (August 8, 2007 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 54. WTB xm607 carbine triangle handguard set. mike12345 (August 8, 2007 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 55. AR10 uppers, mags, barrel, lots of parts, picture Added! mike12345 (July 28, 2007 - 17 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 56. tapco T6 stock, ace stock adaptor, side folding mech, command arms grip, other AK parts. mike12345 (July 24, 2007 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AK Mags, Parts & Accessories ] 57. Ar15 uppers, mags, barrels, lots of parts, Pictures Added! mike12345 (July 21, 2007 - 24 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - New - Uppers ] 58. remove mike12345 (July 17, 2007 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handgun Mags, Parts, & Accessories ] 59. remove mike12345 (July 16, 2007 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Handguns ] 60. removed mike12345 (July 10, 2007 - 4 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 61. 2 Valtro PM5 12ga 7rd mags NEW! SPF mike12345 (July 3, 2007 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Rifle & Shotgun Magazines ] 62. 1 saiga12, 1 remmington 870 wingmaster. mike12345 (July 2, 2007 - 3 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Rifles and Shotguns ] 63. . mike12345 (April 29, 2007 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 64. I want a colt m16a1/SP1 barrel 20in mike12345 (April 17, 2007 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 65. WTB ARMS #53 SIR for AR10 carbine. mike12345 (October 15, 2006 - 0 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - AR Related ] 66. WTB feed chute in 5.56mm if i can get it. mike12345 (June 27, 2006 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Want To Buy - Misc Firearm Related ] 67. remove mike12345 (May 17, 2006 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Parts - New - Lower Receiver ] 68. remove mike12345 (May 17, 2006 - 1 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 69. SOLD PF mike12345 (May 17, 2006 - 2 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR10 ] 70. SPF mike12345 (May 13, 2006 - 16 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: AR15 Magazines ] 71. valtro PM5 magazines, glock +2rd mag extencions, .410ga thunder five, 50rd 10/22mag + other stuff. mike12345 (January 14, 2006 - 13 replies) [ Equipment Exchange :: Rifle & Shotgun Magazines ] TRG Maybe someone should make a call to make sure everything of his is on the up and up? Also any past transactions to make sure nothing was sent to those commie states...and no ammo shipped illegally? long list of things that could be done wrong...just sayin... |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
That being said....I don't trust or care for the BATFE. No sir...I don't trust 'em. . And yet the hordes are rushing to throw Shawn under the bus without a second thought about the BATFE and their methods and tactics. TRG This place has become a playpen for retarded children. And GD is the bottom of the ball pit where all the shit collects. I wonder how many of these stupid motherfuckers understand just how Byzantine the laws related to this industry are? |