Buddy of mine involved in a shooting *UPDATE PG 6 01-13-2005* - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Buddy of mine involved in a shooting *UPDATE PG 6 01-13-2005* (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 12/12/2005 6:12:08 PM EDT

[#1]

tag

Posted: 12/12/2005 6:12:27 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Glad it turned out OK. I've had dreams (nightmares?) where something like that happens and the damn gun won't fire. I keep pulling the trigger and nothing happes. I always wake up before the BG gets to me. Haven't had it lately, but it has happened numerous times.

A LOT of us have this same dream. Very common among gun owners.

-Troy

Posted: 12/12/2005 6:29:03 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Glad it turned out OK. I've had dreams (nightmares?) where something like that happens and the damn gun won't fire. I keep pulling the trigger and nothing happes. I always wake up before the BG gets to me. Haven't had it lately, but it has happened numerous times.

A LOT of us have this same dream. Very common among gun owners.

-Troy

Haven't had that one yet. But I always worry about my son having to go get the gun/s for some reason and not being able to load/fire the pistol when he needs to. But that also means that I am not yet worried about him playing around with it. Well, not yet.

Good shoot, BTW. Hope his wife isn't too freaked out as well. Tell him we appreciate the service, both at home and abroad (and yours too).

Posted: 12/12/2005 6:39:02 PM EDT

[#4]

+ 1 for the good guy

Posted: 12/12/2005 6:41:07 PM EDT

[#5]

Anywhere, anytime.

You don't have to go looking for trouble, sometimes it comes looking for you.

Posted: 12/12/2005 6:41:36 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Glad it turned out OK. I've had dreams (nightmares?) where something like that happens and the damn gun won't fire. I keep pulling the trigger and nothing happes. I always wake up before the BG gets to me. Haven't had it lately, but it has happened numerous times.

A LOT of us have this same dream. Very common among gun owners.

-Troy

When I was in Iraq, I always had a similar dream. My team was set up on a hill somewhere, and I was in the turrent behind the SAW. An Iraqi at the bottom of the hill would fire at us and start running towards us. My team leader and driver wouldn't do anything, they would just stand there, so I would fire at him with the SAW. It was wierd because the SAW would operate in slow mo. I could see the bolt go forward, and it would fire, but the bullets would travel so slowly that the Iraqi could just step aside and let the bullets miss him. It was freaky!

Posted: 12/12/2005 6:46:27 PM EDT

[#7]

That rocks.

WTF is going on in this world when people just lose their minds and do this sort of thing?

Posted: 12/12/2005 6:49:46 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
That rocks.

WTF is going on in this world when people just lose their minds and do this sort of thing?

Pretty common for drunkards to do this kind of thing. Easy to get the wrong apartment when your fuxored.

Good shoot, just hope the above is not the case for your friends mental well being.

Posted: 12/12/2005 6:52:46 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
why did he stop with two shots each time? I would have probalby still been reflexively pulling the trigger with the slide back when the cops got there.

No, I don't know what I really would do if I had to shoot someone...

Glad you friend is okay.

Thanks.

My Guard unit is Military Police, and we always train to shoot twice in the chest and evaulate the situation (in Law Enforcement type situations)

I always train to shoot 8 rounds in the mouth and then change magazines. If ever comes a time...I will make sure that the sumbitch stays down..... then... I'll evaluate the situation! I pray that time never comes!

Posted: 12/12/2005 6:55:49 PM EDT

[#10]

I'm happy to hear he came out alright. Hopefully they dont take too long to get him his pistol back.

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:04:41 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Anywhere, anytime.

You don't have to go looking for trouble, sometimes it comes looking for you.

+1.

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:05:09 PM EDT

[#12]

Good job, score one for the good guys.

The man that breaks down my door in the middle of the night gets rifle fire in return.

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:06:03 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Good shoot.

Tell him to practice some failsafe drills.

Explain the concept of failsafe drills please

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:10:48 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Glad it turned out OK. I've had dreams (nightmares?) where something like that happens and the damn gun won't fire. I keep pulling the trigger and nothing happes. I always wake up before the BG gets to me. Haven't had it lately, but it has happened numerous times.

A LOT of us have this same dream. Very common among gun owners.

-Troy

Am I the only one that also has dreams where my guns take nickels and shoots them, but they shoot more like frisbees and never actually hit anything?

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:11:54 PM EDT

[#15]

Your buddy and his wife are safe and sound. Their attacker is dead. Outstanding.

Very cool of you to gun him up, also.

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:12:01 PM EDT

[#16]

Thank your buddy for taking another dirtbag off of the streets.

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:14:15 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Glad it turned out OK. I've had dreams (nightmares?) where something like that happens and the damn gun won't fire. I keep pulling the trigger and nothing happes. I always wake up before the BG gets to me. Haven't had it lately, but it has happened numerous times.

A LOT of us have this same dream. Very common among gun owners.

-Troy

I asked about this a few years back. when I was having dreams like that every week, sometimes on consecutive nights.

The answer I got was "go to the range more". It seems it a subconscious thing having to do with not being confident in your abilities.

I went to the range more, and the dreams have gone away now that I am 100% confident with my USP .45. I never had the dream with my AR, which I have always shot better with anyway. It may have helped that I took an IPSC class and ended up outshooting everyone in the class, and I was only 18

while there were army guys and men that were over 30. I got 6 shots, all A zone, in 4.92 seconds. Pretty much since that day, the dreams have stopped.

I even had a dream last week where I fired at the BG, hitting him in the chest with one shot when he grabbed a girl that was next to him, when I plugged him in the face and put him down.

I'm so proud of myself. Is it alright to feel proud after a good shoot? Because honestly, I dont think I would feel the least bit bad in the unlikely and unforturnate event in which I had take down a BG. My only regret would be losing my $800 handgun for some bullshit reason.

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:15:36 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Glad it turned out OK. I've had dreams (nightmares?) where something like that happens and the damn gun won't fire. I keep pulling the trigger and nothing happes. I always wake up before the BG gets to me. Haven't had it lately, but it has happened numerous times.

I used to have those, but after shooting for many years and taken several training classes (mostly handgun, but rifle & shotgun as well) those dreams don't happen anymore. Frequent use and good training builds confidence in your abilities and your weapon's abilities.

However, I received my CCW a few weeks ago and have been carrying ever since. Now they're "I can't draw from concealment fast enough/my gun is stuck in the holster" dreams.

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:15:43 PM EDT

[#19]

Wow!

Glad your team leader was not the one hauled to the morgue. He did an outstanding job defending his home. Whether the BG was drunk, drugged, or just stupid, he suffered the consequences of his actions.

I keep a loaded .357 SIG P229 by the bed, and an 870 Magnum Express in the closet, ready to go.

I also get wierd gun dreams; all your shots missing no matter how good your aim is, then running around searching for more ammo while the bad guys steadily close in...

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:17:05 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Glad it turned out OK. I've had dreams (nightmares?) where something like that happens and the damn gun won't fire. I keep pulling the trigger and nothing happes. I always wake up before the BG gets to me. Haven't had it lately, but it has happened numerous times.

A LOT of us have this same dream. Very common among gun owners.

-Troy

Am I the only one that also has dreams where my guns take nickels and shoots them, but they shoot more like frisbees and never actually hit anything?

In the dreams I USED to have, my trigger would be really, really heavy, making it nearly impossible to even fire the thing, and if I did manage to make it fire, it would miss completly since the muzzle would get elevated from pulling back on the trigger so hard. Also, I've had instances in dreams were the bullet would cause no harm or bounce of completely. Just go to the range more, concentrate of quality of shooting over quantity, become 100% sure you can hit BG in chest, and dreams will go away.

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:19:50 PM EDT

[#21]

Tell your buddy good job one less POS I have to worry about coming thru my door.

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:21:50 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
[ I was trying to explain the mogidishu (spelling?) drill

Ya mean mozambique drill?

Posted: 12/12/2005 7:39:56 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
He won't be breaking any more doors down.

HH

...or writing any children's books!!!

Posted: 12/12/2005 9:50:31 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
why did he stop with two shots each time? I would have probalby still been reflexively pulling the trigger with the slide back when the cops got there.

No, I don't know what I really would do if I had to shoot someone...

Glad you friend is okay.

Thanks.

My Guard unit is Military Police, and we always train to shoot twice in the chest and evaulate the situation (in Law Enforcement type situations)

I always train to shoot 8 rounds in the mouth and then change magazines. If ever comes a time...I will make sure that the sumbitch stays down..... then... I'll evaluate the situation! I pray that time never comes!

8 rounds in the mouth? Is that something you were taught or did you come up with that on your own?

You may want to re-evaluate your training. Don't take my word for it. Ask around.

ETA: guardian855, good shoot on your buddy's part. Hope he gets his pistol back soon. You're a good guy for loaning him yours.

Posted: 12/12/2005 10:14:01 PM EDT

[#25]

I shot him an email asking him what type of rounds he used, I'll let you guys know when he replies.

Posted: 12/12/2005 10:27:39 PM EDT

[#26]

Sounds like a good shoot. Hopefully gets his gun back soon.

Posted: 12/12/2005 10:29:44 PM EDT

[#27]

Score 1 for the good guys.

Posted: 12/12/2005 10:41:53 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
The cops arrived, and confiscated his pistol...

Collected as evidence, not confiscated. Hell they do the same to cops duty weapons folliwing on the job shootings.

Posted: 12/12/2005 10:43:53 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
sounds like a god shoot to me. my question is this: when one has this happen to them and the weapon is confiscated for evidence, does one get said weapon back? Keep in mind that this is a member of the guard so I presume that he will sometime in the futre. But what about us civi's?

The police told him to expect to not get it back for at least 6 months, probably more.

He will be lucky to get it back before the end of the civil trial the suspects famly will file 11 months, 3 weeks, and 6 days from now.

Posted: 12/12/2005 10:48:58 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Good shoot. Hope he has another primary HD/Carry tool.

WTH does it take 6 months to get his pistol back. Is the crime lab so freaking backed up they can't process the gun before that. How hard is it to shoot a few sample rounds for ballistics?

A homicide occured. By all appearances a lawfull one, but there is likely to be a grand jury hearing and at least one civil trial comming up. You can expect to not see the tool you use to kill someone with for at least a couple years, if ever.

If someojne killed one of your family members would you want the police to release the evidence before your attorny and his expert witnessness had a chance to examine it?

Posted: 12/12/2005 10:50:56 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
My Guard unit is Military Police, and we always train to shoot twice in the chest and evaulate the situation (in Law Enforcement type situations)

Is it standard proc. to take the homeowners gun after after an incident like this? Would they have taken a civilian policeman's weapon in the same situation?

Absolutely standard. It's evidence in a homicide. One that most likely will be ruled a justifiable homicide, but it's part of the investigation.

LE agencies always take the officers gun if involved in a shooting. Progressive/good agencies hand him a loaner on the spot.

Posted: 12/12/2005 10:52:13 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
My Guard unit is Military Police, and we always train to shoot twice in the chest and evaulate the situation (in Law Enforcement type situations)

Interesting. Even in a situation where body armor is likely? (not that your average burglar is going to be wearing a vest)

Its true, fight like you train, etc...

Is it standard proc. to take the homeowners gun after after an incident like this? Would they have taken a civilian policeman's weapon in the same situation?

Yes. Even the cop's gun will be confiscated. In many departments, I know they won't get it back for a minimum of 3 days, and only after an evaluation by a headshrinker.

In my department they take the weapon and immediately give you a replacement. we did away with mandatory time off following shootings years ago. If your duty weapon is personally owned you can provide your own replacement or get a new gun/holster/mags/ammo of whichever type is currently issued by the armory. I dont like the current issue weapon so i keep a spare personally owned sidearm identical to my duty weapon in my locker at work.

Losing your weapon for awhile after a shooting is just one of the cost of doing business.

Posted: 12/12/2005 10:55:41 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

I've seriously considered buying a .40, but I may reconsider based on this incident. Although the bad guy could have been pumped up on drugs.

I wouldn't worry about it. It did the job.

Expecting someone to fall down and play dead immediately is somewhat wishful thinking when we're talking about COM pistol hits.

Posted: 12/12/2005 10:57:13 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Glad it turned out OK. I've had dreams (nightmares?) where something like that happens and the damn gun won't fire. I keep pulling the trigger and nothing happes. I always wake up before the BG gets to me. Haven't had it lately, but it has happened numerous times.

A LOT of us have this same dream. Very common among gun owners.

-Troy

I don't. But then again I clean my guns.

Posted: 12/12/2005 11:00:39 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Glad it turned out OK. I've had dreams (nightmares?) where something like that happens and the damn gun won't fire. I keep pulling the trigger and nothing happes. I always wake up before the BG gets to me. Haven't had it lately, but it has happened numerous times.

A LOT of us have this same dream. Very common among gun owners.

-Troy

I don't. But then again I clean my guns.

I read somewhere that those dreams stem not from lack of confidence inthe gun in your hand, but lack in confidence in the "gun" you were born with. Dreams of your gun not shooting are about "performance anxiety" not gunplay. Based on how many people here have that dream, maybe I should invest some of my 401K in Pfizer stock.

Posted: 12/12/2005 11:01:41 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Losing your weapon for awhile after a shooting is just one of the cost of doing business.

Guns are cheap, life is not.

Posted: 12/12/2005 11:20:03 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
... Good, no one else will have to deal with that asshole's shit again - ever

amen

Posted: 12/12/2005 11:20:41 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The cops arrived, and confiscated his pistol...

Collected as evidence, not confiscated. Hell they do the same to cops duty weapons folliwing on the job shootings.

Yes, but when your whining it sounds better.

In any case , if you really want to know what might happen to your gun in your city, why not ask the local department, instead of a bunch of guys that haven't got the foggiest idea what might happen in your vicinity?

As far as 2 to the COM, if he's drugged up he might not know he's dead for a few seconds. That assumes that both rounds hit the heart, if it still pumps some and keeps a little pressure up it takes awhile for the brain to shutdown. If the heart and central nervous system aren't totally disabled, who knows how long he might keep coming. Kind of like a charging grizzly bear.

Posted: 12/12/2005 11:21:59 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I've seriously considered buying a .40, but I may reconsider based on this incident. Although the bad guy could have been pumped up on drugs.

I wouldn't worry about it. It did the job.

Expecting someone to fall down and play dead immediately is somewhat wishful thinking when we're talking about COM pistol hits.

I don't think anything without a stock and flash suppressor would have done any better than that .40 did.

Posted: 12/12/2005 11:31:52 PM EDT

[#40]

BEst wishes for your bud, this is some shit to have to deal with. You are fucking cool friend to boot.

Posted: 12/12/2005 11:35:07 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Glad it turned out OK. I've had dreams (nightmares?) where something like that happens and the damn gun won't fire. I keep pulling the trigger and nothing happes. I always wake up before the BG gets to me. Haven't had it lately, but it has happened numerous times.

A LOT of us have this same dream. Very common among gun owners.

-Troy

I don't. But then again I clean my guns.

When it happens to me, it's as though I need to pull the trigger just a little bit more for it to fire, but I can't pull it quite far enough, no matter how hard I squeeze.

Posted: 12/13/2005 4:10:38 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Luckily for him they have a recording of him struggling with the intruder on the 911 tape, and he met with the District Attorney who told him it's a pretty clear case of self-defense.

Given that:

1. The door was forcibly broken down
2. The dead man had no discernable legitimate reason for being at the shooter's house
3. The shooter has no criminal record or history of violence

The 911 tape is merely icing on the cake.

Every element looks exactly like what it is: A thug trying to break in that gets shot by the home owner.

911 tape or not, the evidence is that this is a righteous shoot.

Posted: 12/13/2005 4:11:40 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
why did he stop with two shots each time? I would have probalby still been reflexively pulling the trigger with the slide back when the cops got there.

Probably his training to shoot twice and evaluate.

My training is such that I won't stop shooting until the threat is no longer a threat. I would have kept pulling the trigger until the guy was on the floor.

Posted: 12/13/2005 4:12:42 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Is it standard proc. to take the homeowners gun after after an incident like this? Would they have taken a civilian policeman's weapon in the same situation?

Yes.

You must remember that for all intents and purposes, the gun is treated like a murder weapon and becomes a vital piece of evidence in a homicide investigation. Even when the shooting is justified.

Posted: 12/13/2005 4:14:19 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Seems like it would be pretty hard to establish PC to take any of the other weapons unless they violated some minor law or ordnance regarding them, such as storage or some shit.

They MIGHT ask you to voluntarily give them up for the duration, but we ARFcommers all know the answer to that.

HELL NO.

Posted: 12/13/2005 4:16:00 AM EDT

[#46]

Outstanding work by your friend.

Posted: 12/13/2005 4:21:05 AM EDT

[#47]

I got one bit of advice, if thats the only gun he had

go out and buy a SHOTGUN for Christmas.

Posted: 12/13/2005 5:23:43 AM EDT

[#48]

Y'all be sure to find out if his homeowner's will cover the furniture replacement, and start a thread for a fund if it doesn't. I think this would be a standup thing for arfcommers to do for this family.

Even if we just cover the deductible, it would be nice. It's bad enough they have to go thru' all the other stuff, and get the furniture ruined, and have to move to another place. I'm serious.

Posted: 12/13/2005 5:45:26 AM EDT

[#49]

I would also go with 2 and check, what if he is not alone and his buddies start coming thru the door and you have fired your whole mag at the first idiot thru the door?

BTW I keep a 1911 and M-4 next to the side of my bed. I used the M-4 to meet a burglar that broke in my back door several years ago, and the look on his face was priceless when he looked up the stairs and into the business end locked on target between his eyes.

Posted: 12/13/2005 6:13:08 AM EDT

[#50]

The citizen performed admirably in every single aspect of this incident.

I am curious as to the ammo type as well, but once it’s disclosed I am not looking forward to all the keyboard kommandos bitching about, “Oh pooh, he should have been using Triton 135’s – the guy would never have gotten back up” and crap like that.

Your friend should be happy he doesn’t live in California, the police would want $54 before he’d be able to get his gun back.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Buddy of mine involved in a shooting *UPDATE PG 6 01-13-2005* (Page 2 of 4)

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