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Posted: 11/22/2019 9:46:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BSA began to die in the 1990s when BSA leadership began to actively downplay Boy Scouting’s military roots. And women should never have been allowed to be Scoutmasters or Asst Scoutmasters. At the Troop level, It is an experiential learning and leadership development program for pre-teen/teenage boys to learn Western Civilization’s values under the tutelage of men. Boys at that age don’t listen to moms, especially around their peers. Too many people think it is just “camping club” or “knots and forst aid youth group.” It was one of the best things about 20th Century US culture, and National HQ slit its throat in the name of Diversity and Inclusion to keep corporate donations rolling in. The youth orgs that inspired scouting were directly involved in support of a military operation (defense against a siege). If the whole thing goes under in the near future, I wonder if it will be possible to start a new organization utilizing its name and traditions. Sadly, I don't see it being revived in the manner in which it was started, by boys organizing themselves into troops and such and then asking men to help guide them after the fact. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 9:48:12 PM EDT
[#2]
A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away
 Attached File |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 9:49:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Phillips must be turning in his grave
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Posted: 11/22/2019 9:49:56 PM EDT
[#4]
I had an incredible time at Philmont around ‘85
So sad
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Posted: 11/22/2019 9:50:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. Although the rejection of the military roots seemed to start in the wake of Vietnam and the anti-military sentiment that arose therefrom. The Oscar Renteria uniforms, IIRC, were designed in the 1980s to try and make Scout uniforms less martial in appearance. The youth orgs that inspired scouting were directly involved in support of a military operation (defense against a siege). If the whole thing goes under in the near future, I wonder if it will be possible to start a new organization utilizing its name and traditions. Sadly, I don't see it being revived in the manner in which it was started, by boys organizing themselves into troops and such and then asking men to help guide them after the fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
BSA began to die in the 1990s when BSA leadership began to actively downplay Boy Scouting’s military roots. And women should never have been allowed to be Scoutmasters or Asst Scoutmasters. At the Troop level, It is an experiential learning and leadership development program for pre-teen/teenage boys to learn Western Civilization’s values under the tutelage of men. Boys at that age don’t listen to moms, especially around their peers. Too many people think it is just “camping club” or “knots and forst aid youth group.” It was one of the best things about 20th Century US culture, and National HQ slit its throat in the name of Diversity and Inclusion to keep corporate donations rolling in. The youth orgs that inspired scouting were directly involved in support of a military operation (defense against a siege). If the whole thing goes under in the near future, I wonder if it will be possible to start a new organization utilizing its name and traditions. Sadly, I don't see it being revived in the manner in which it was started, by boys organizing themselves into troops and such and then asking men to help guide them after the fact. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 9:51:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Losing 20 % of their membership when LDS split over girls didn’t help their cash flow.... |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 9:54:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/22AF96FF-9805-4DEB-8188-CA23D41E47CA_jpeg-1170296.JPG 
A bit of my childhood nostalgia: 
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Posted: 11/22/2019 9:55:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trail Life USA looks interesting, but it doesn't have the brand recognition. Maybe that's okay. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why don’t we just start a new one Hopefully it will gain brand recognition over time, but regardless, it feels like what the scouts used to be so I’m happy and my boy enjoys it. Maybe scouts will put Philmont on the auction block one of these days... |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 9:59:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holy cow. What was it like riding horses to school, grandpa?
A bit of my childhood nostalgia: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/266317/image-596004.jpg  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 9:59:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Local camp got sold to excavating company for a sand and gravel pit. Beautiful piece of land. Just like a kids movie, everyone fought it, but the big shots up top sold it for a fraction of what it was worth before anyone new what had happened.
Also pulled our boy out over a year ago. Local packs were shit shows. Was embarrassed to be associated with the group. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:02:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Raping kids should cost them more than a mortgage.
From reading most of these lawsuits, the BSA is no different than the Catholic Church. Coverups, lies, and abuse |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:04:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The liberal objective of destroying the once-great BSA is nearly complete. Don't worry, though. They'll find another one to destroy when BSA is gone. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:04:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Sad
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:04:26 PM EDT
[#14]
My son has been in the Boy Scouts for a little over a year coming out of Cub Scouts.
No, I dont like the way it’s going as a whole, but my son still likes it and it’s better than nothing. I guess at least in East Tn it hasn’t got as liberal yet, but until then I’m going to keep him in it and keep fighting the good fight. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:05:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Holy cow. What was it like riding horses to school, grandpa?
A bit of my childhood nostalgia: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/266317/image-596004.jpg I still thumb through my old Fieldbook on occasion. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:05:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Raping kids should cost them more than a mortgage. From reading most of these lawsuits, the BSA is no different than the Catholic Church. Coverups, lies, and abuse |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:07:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry. But the real BSA is dead. . Another once great organization ruined by liberalism/progressivism.
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:11:12 PM EDT
[#18]
The BSA has all but been destroyed by social Marxism and internal failures.
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:13:35 PM EDT
[#19]
I worked at Philmont for 4 summers working the gun camps in the backcountry, this news is very concerning. BSA has proven time and time that they cannot be trusted with big decisions or money. Over the years BSA national office has found ways to mess things up at Philmont. There have been many times that I wished that the ranch was a completely separate program not assocaciated with the BSA.
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:13:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Leadership is intentionally killing the organization, there’s no other explanation.
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:17:29 PM EDT
[#21]
My son is a Eagle and told me to throw his award in the trash. I kept it as he might want it back one day.
The BSA compromised their values and will reap that which they sowed. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:21:28 PM EDT
[#22]
They should sell everything to a independent group and then just sign a 50-100yr lease.
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:26:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The BSA said Friday that it has no plans to sell the property, and that the land is being used as collateral to help meet financial needs that include rising insurance costs related to sex-abuse litigation.
However, the move dismayed a member of Philmont's oversight committee, who says it violates agreements made when the land was donated in 1938. The BSA disputed his assertion. Top BSA officials signed the document in March, but members of the Philmont Ranch Committee only recently learned of the development, according to committee member Mark Stinnett. In a memo sent to his fellow members, Stinnett a Colorado-based lawyer decried the financial maneuver and the lack of consultation with the committee. "I cannot begin to tell you how sorry I am to be the one to break this news to you," Stinnett wrote. "The first point of the Scout Law is 'A Scout is trustworthy.' I am distressed beyond words at learning that our leaders apparently have not been." "But I am even more distressed to learn that Waite Phillips' magnificent gift has now been put at risk," Stinnett added. BSA has gotten into the habit of making decisions in secret, even leaving out committee members (IE-LDS members) to make controversial decisions. This is what they did when they made the decision to allow homosexual leaders in. Bets on whether they have actually promised a sale on Philmont to some billionaire or corporation. Maybe when they run out of money to pay to the 'victims' and they are trying to hock everything then the LDS Church will be willing to buy Philmont and allow it to keep being a Boy Scout camp. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:28:11 PM EDT
[#24]
former eagle scout here ashamed of what has happened to this once awesome organization!
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:30:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryRobert Gates' legacy will be having killed off two great American hallmarks; the Boy Scouts of America and the F22 program. What an asshole. 
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:30:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Why is everyone bitching in this thread glossing over the sexual abuse that is the root cause of the problem? They had to put the ranch up for collateral because some people in the organization are predators that can't keep their hands off of the kids they are supposed to be mentoring. Even the AP article passed over the sexual abuse to reminisce about the good old days of the ranch. It wasn't liberals, girls, gays, or a mother's participation as a leader that caused this. It was adults molesting children. It is that simple. Stop raping kids and keep the ranch.
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:33:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/459941/22AF96FF-9805-4DEB-8188-CA23D41E47CA_jpeg-1170296.JPG Much sadness...
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:39:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why is everyone bitching in this thread glossing over the sexual abuse that is the root cause of the problem? They had to put the ranch up for collateral because some people in the organization are predators that can't keep their hands off of the kids they are supposed to be mentoring. Even the AP article passed over the sexual abuse to reminisce about the good old days of the ranch. It wasn't liberals, girls, gays, or a mother's participation as a leader that caused this. It was adults molesting children. It is that simple. Stop raping kids and keep the ranch. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:40:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why is everyone bitching in this thread glossing over the sexual abuse that is the root cause of the problem? They had to put the ranch up for collateral because some people in the organization are predators that can't keep their hands off of the kids they are supposed to be mentoring. Even the AP article passed over the sexual abuse to reminisce about the good old days of the ranch. It wasn't liberals, girls, gays, or a mother's participation as a leader that caused this. It was adults molesting children. It is that simple. Stop raping kids and keep the ranch. And now BSA is trying to address lost membership revenue by nearly doubling the annual membership fee less than two months before that fee is due. Every unit has to “recharter” by the end of the year, meaning unit leaders have to get the membership to pay a few weeks in advance. So effectively that means parents found out their kid’s fee jumped 45% on only 2-4 weeks notice. That is painful for low-income families. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:44:22 PM EDT
[#30]
I'm a third generation Eagle.
I have a 4 year old daughter. When she was born I was sad that I wouldn't be able to participate in Scouts with her. Figured she could joing Girl Scouts and I'd show her Boy Scout stuff on our own campouts. Then this change came along, and I was excited that my family could have another Eagle. But yeah...the more I've looked into the organization (and how it seems to be dying out fast) I will probably stick to my 'home school' version of scouting. (Should add: I visited Philmont in July of 1990. Earned my Eagle shortly before that trip.) |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:48:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is merely one issue among many. The reason BSA is hocking Philmont to pay claims is because of the lost revenue from declining membership — a problem BSA national HQ caused by letting in gay kids, gay adult leaders, trannies, and girls despite the membership vociferously protesting those decisions. And now BSA is trying to address lost membership revenue by nearly doubling the annual membership fee less than two months before that fee is due. Every unit has to “recharter” by the end of the year, meaning unit leaders have to get the membership to pay a few weeks in advance. So effectively that means parents found out their kid’s fee jumped 45% on only 2-4 weeks notice. That is painful for low-income families. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why is everyone bitching in this thread glossing over the sexual abuse that is the root cause of the problem? They had to put the ranch up for collateral because some people in the organization are predators that can't keep their hands off of the kids they are supposed to be mentoring. Even the AP article passed over the sexual abuse to reminisce about the good old days of the ranch. It wasn't liberals, girls, gays, or a mother's participation as a leader that caused this. It was adults molesting children. It is that simple. Stop raping kids and keep the ranch. And now BSA is trying to address lost membership revenue by nearly doubling the annual membership fee less than two months before that fee is due. Every unit has to “recharter” by the end of the year, meaning unit leaders have to get the membership to pay a few weeks in advance. So effectively that means parents found out their kid’s fee jumped 45% on only 2-4 weeks notice. That is painful for low-income families. I really don’t know the answer to their declining membership numbers. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:49:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BSA began to die in the 1990s when BSA leadership began to actively downplay Boy Scouting’s military roots. In the early 60s some of us used to iron GI creases into our uniforms and the council would get a lot of WW2/Korean vintage surplus stuff like packs, pack boards, Lister bags etc. In the 70s when I was in the service I came home and some of the kids told me about what was going on in the old troop and while it was pretty much the BSA I did notice differences. They didn't visit military stuff anymore. When I was a kid we stayed at military bases, visited ships etc and that seemed to have died out or at least was dying off. Later in basic I used a knot of some sort to tie a shelter half and the drill sergeant asked me where I learned it and I told him I was a Boy Scout. He asked me if I knew the difference between the Boy Scouts and the Army and I innocently asked him "The Boy Scouts have adult supervision?" He turned purple. |
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Posted: 11/22/2019 10:50:34 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 11/22/2019 11:39:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don’t. It’s now Scouts BSA. |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:01:19 AM EDT
[#35]
I hung up my ASM shirt when our troop became co-ed
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:03:42 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hung up my ASM shirt when our troop became co-ed Unless something weird happens, he should finish it this spring. |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:05:10 AM EDT
[#37]
I'm an Eagle who has been to Philmont and Sea Base.
What a shame. |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:05:53 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hung up my ASM shirt when our troop became co-ed |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:06:04 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BSA’s membership problems have existed for a long time. Their numbers held relatively stable between 1970-1990, then started tanking. Between 2000 and 2015 BSA membership declined by 34%. I really don’t know the answer to their declining membership numbers. |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:08:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lot's of ignorance in this thread. There is not a single girl in any of the 30 or so troops around me other than the dedicated girls troop. |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:09:03 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Losing 20 % of their membership when LDS split over girls didn’t help their cash flow.... Time will tell if BSA is in the complete crapper in another year or two. My gut tells me they're fucked. My son has worked at a council summer camp the last two years. This summer was massively understaffed because they couldn't find enough workers and camper attendance was down significantly. I'm afraid next year will be worse. My wife and I have both worked at Philmont and our son's applying to work there next summer. I'm afraid his experience will be a shell of what our's was. |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:10:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Oh no! How will all those kids earn their popcorn panhandling badges now?
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:14:13 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lot's of ignorance in this thread. There is not a single girl in any of the 30 or so troops around me other than the dedicated girls troop. |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:16:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your Troop went coed? That is interesting since girls are not allowed in boy Troops. Troops are still single-gender. Either your committee and SM are violating BSA policy or you are FOS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I hung up my ASM shirt when our troop became co-ed |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:17:06 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:18:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As an Eagle Scout, it pains me that my 9 year old cant have the same experiences I did growing up. BSA has fallen so far from its roots. I talked with our local BSA chapter before enrolling my son, and there was more crafting crap on the agenda than camping/outdoor style activities. I will just take more individual responsibility in teaching my son what I learned in BSA. |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:23:19 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lot's of ignorance in this thread. There is not a single girl in any of the 30 or so troops around me other than the dedicated girls troop. |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:27:34 AM EDT
[#48]
Our 40yo troop is down to 20 members, 15 active
We can't find new members |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:29:24 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I seem to remember a thread awhile back here where some were talking about the positive changes that were happening, and how the BSA (or whatever they call themselves now) are being proactive and keeping with the times. About how us oldtimers are all bigoted. How's that all working out? There are any number of them pulling the "OK boomer" line when someone points out that BSA is dying because of the suicidal "inclusion" policy decisions they've made. Plenty of useful idiots who don't understand the "get woke, go broke" reality and will continue to double down. The stuff they loved about scouting is what their own PC demands have killed. |
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Posted: 11/23/2019 12:29:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our 40yo troop is down to 20 members, 15 active We can't find new members |
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