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Posted: 8/19/2004 9:09:05 AM EDT
[#1]
We don't need no water let the motherfucker burn. 
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Posted: 8/19/2004 9:51:10 AM EDT
[#2]
No, it's not the same. Mohammed just grafted old Hebrew monotheism onto one of many pagan gods worshipped at the Kabbah in Mecca. That god he choose was the god of the moon, Allah. Mohammed declared that god, Allah, was the greatest (allah ackbar) over the sundry other pagan gods worshipped there. So when you see millions of Muslims circling around the Kabbah in Mecca? They're continuing the ancient worship of the false deity Allah. Those crescent moons you see on Islamic flags? Again, the ancient symbol of the pagan god Allah. Mohammed was no prophet of the Hebrew god. The fact that he, uh, wasn't Hebrew should make that pretty clear. Yet this 25 year old illiterate bandit declares that he's a prophet of Abraham's Lord, and that he was told that this little idol worshipped in Mecca here is actually the same God. How does he know? Because god told him, of course! |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 10:56:26 AM EDT
[#3]
This is a distinction I see, but is missed by many. This repression was under the absolutism of the Roman church. If you take a look at predominantly Protestant societies (such as the USA ) you will see a trend toward liberty.
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Posted: 8/19/2004 11:03:31 AM EDT
[#4]
Agreed and when will they learn we were never and still are not afraid of the word jihad ??? |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 11:06:36 AM EDT
[#5]
' Prophetofdoom.net' Go see what Muhammad himself had to say about this issue. Have you ever heard of the law of non-contradiction? If you're comparing A and B, then either A is true, and B is false, OR B is true, and A is false. Both A and B could also both be false. BUT: A and B cannot be true simultaneously. Do you like logic? Logically speaking, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob cannot be Mohammed's allah Oh, and by the way, the only verses in the Koran that are valid, according to Muhammad, are the later verses, which were written towards the end of his military career. All of the peaceful verses in the Koran were abrogated(made null and void) by the violent ones. Go to Prophetofdoom, and get the facts for yourself. |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 11:20:25 AM EDT
[#6]
It is rather disturbing that we bash other countries for having religious clashes and then start our own on a AR15 forum.
My advice is be the same man with or without your religion. MT |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 11:21:02 AM EDT
[#7]
 This cartoon just about sums it up… funny thing is they have no problem when other Muslims blow up mosques and shrines… it's all just bullshit and we are dumb enough to play along with it. ANdy |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 11:58:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Other countries? Do you always refer to the USA as "other countries", and why would you? Talk about "disturbing", LOL. Or maybe you are a illegal or what? And what the hell is up with members defending our enemy here and now in this thread? Freaking creaping me out. |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 12:04:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Damn that is a good one Andy |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 12:57:09 PM EDT
[#10]
If they're pagans- they wouldn't believe in God- or in hell. "Hel" possibly..... |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 1:02:53 PM EDT
[#11]
 This is the one I hope to see come true!…  Andy |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 1:12:44 PM EDT
[#12]
+1 |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 1:20:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Okay, then, how about this : idolaters. The correct definition of an idolater is someone who worships a false God. Actually, anyone who places any thing (gunolatry comes to mind !) or any entity in a higher regard than he regards the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is an idolater. Does that work better for you??? |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 1:25:50 PM EDT
[#14]
+1 
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Posted: 8/19/2004 1:26:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Seems the AC-130's have been busy over Najaf tonite…
www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200408/s1180897.htm Also it's being reported that Al Sadr has agreed to hand over the Imam Ali Mosque to Al Sistani but is refusing to disarm his militia. www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4435831,00.html Andy |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 1:42:05 PM EDT
[#16]
I, for one, am sick and friggin' tired about hearing about "The Holy City of Najaf" and "The Holy City of Fallujah" ad nausem...
What about the holy city of New York? There are some of the greatest cathedrals in the world in New York City! What about the holy city of Washington DC? Nobody seemed to care when we got attacked. We need to take a lesson from the Russians on this one folks. JADAM the crap out of it all, they can sell the pieces of rubble of some "Holy Temples" on Ebay next week. 
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Posted: 8/19/2004 1:58:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Typical Christian 'superiority' mode.... easy to point your fingers at the others as the 'bad' people. Somehow it seems, that just by calling yourself a Christian, you are automatically elevated to an all-knowing, perfect status. Guilt and sin are Xtian concepts. The Xtians started the downhill slide with all the 'brotherhood' and unity bullshit, now it comes back to bite you in the ass. Our society was set up as a secular society. |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 3:30:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Post from SteyrAUG -
They'd better be good ones!
Oh, please! You say that these were the 'Dark Ages', which they most certainly were NOT! The "Dark Ages" is a term invented in the early 14th Century to describe the preceeding 900 years in Europe, begining with the fall of the western Roman Empire in 410 AD through to the renewal embodied in the Renaissance begining in the 14th Century. Galileo's life, writings, and run in with the Roman Church occurred between the years 1564 AD when he was born and 1642 AD when he died near Florence. Hardly within the Period of European History known as the 'Dark Ages'! It was at least a Century and a half into that Period of European History known as the 'Renaissance.' Indeed, Galileo Galilei was an embodiment of the spirit of the Renaissance!
Oh, puh-leese, yet again! This was not even a speed bump in the Renaissance or in the development of Western Science. Why? Because Galileo continued with his research and in his communications regarding his research with his fellow astronomers. If that was a 'blow to freedom' it was the most feeble blow ever delivered by an irate Roman Church, which was, at this time, burning heretics....men much like Galileo!
I am actually quite thrilled that they allowed him to live, and that they allowed him to live well!
Remember how the 'Dark Ages' are commonly defined. With that in mind, the Roman Church served as a beacon of light, not darkness, across the European landscape! As a reminder to those who forget history all too easily, can you name any 'University' or 'College' in the Period of the Renaissance that was NOT directly run, financed, and staffed by the Roman Church or by another Christian Church in Europe? Every single school that Galileo attended was run by the Roman Church! How's that for 'darkness'?
[sarcasm on] Yeah, I guess that's why they call this Period the 'Renaissance', because there wasn't a whole lot of good stuff being done for mankind, eh? [/sarcasm off]
Au contraire, mon frere, it was the beginning of the best of times for Mankind! It was the Introduction to the Modern Era.
The Muslims had their 'Golden Age' as well, which ended coincidentally with the beginnings of the Renaissance in Southern Europe. It just ended rather abruptly. And hasn't gotten started again, as yet! It's amazing how little history some of y'all know! Astounding, actually! Eric The(Historical)Hun 
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Posted: 8/19/2004 3:37:09 PM EDT
[#19]
You do realize that you have just claimed to have a handle on pagan orthodoxy, don't you? Perhaps there is some standard set of beliefs within the local coven, circle, or what-have-you but I assure you that nobody can make pronouncements about what pagans in general believe, beyond the broadest sort of definition. They aren't Jews or Christians, that much is certain. Beyond that, it is 100% idiosyncratic. Only a pagan can tell you what he believes, and he can't tell you what other pagans believe. People who worship/honor/propitiate (or whatever) The Goddess, Thor, tree spirits, river sprites, Apollo, the Earth, Rocks, and their grandparents are all pagans. Doubtless some pagans believe in God. Neo-pagans have some broad trends or characteristics, there is no way of predicting any given pagan's personal belief on any given subject, and there is no Board of Pagan Inquiry to decide, based on beliefs and practices, who is and isn't a pagan. A person who says he's a Roman Catholic and denies the authority of the Pope is lying. A person who says he's Muslim but thinks Mohammed was a demon-inspired pedophile and a fraud isn't really a Muslim. A person who says he's a Christian but denies the divinity of Jesus is probably something, but he isn't a Christian. Each of those categories (RC, Muslim, Xtian) by definition includes some set of core beliefs. "Paganism" doesn't. Look around the web. You'll find helpful hints for selecting a god and designing rituals - and therefore proof that neither you nor I, nor the pagan next door can say what pagans believe. |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 3:40:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Your your facts are wrong, but on the positive side, you have silly opinions! Hint: get facts first, then work out your opinions. |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 3:50:58 PM EDT
[#21]
HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN?
 ALL YOUR HOLY SHRINE ARE BELONG TO US  YOU ARE ON THE WAY TO DESTRUCTION  YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME  HA HA HA HA |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 3:52:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Woot. That is all. - BUCC_Guy |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 3:54:13 PM EDT
[#23]
How to go from "Most Holy Site" to "Most Holy Shite" in 2 seconds......works for me.
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Posted: 8/19/2004 4:11:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Allah is less than a dead god, he is non-existant. Mohammed is very dead. Mohammed came up with an idea. He decided that he would organize some of the biggest idiots on the planet, the practically stone-age, wanderers of the middle east.
Just as Hitler did, he told people that their sorry lot could be fixed by buying into a totalitarian regime. Just as the Klan did later, he convinced a bunch of guys that if they signed on to his religion, he and all the other Jihad Bubbas could do anything they wanted to anyone female or outside of their "club" and lay the blame on their Allah. Islam is nothing more than organized crime with an excess of camels and sand. The biggest difference between Islam and the Mafia is that the Mafia has standards. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, three in one, is the Christian God. Allah doesn't fit into that system....never has and never will. Islam, Hinduism, Budism, Shintoism, and all the other worshippers of dead people and made-up gods are involved in a fantasy. People who practice moral equivalency in effect are saying that they have no moral code of their own. They believe in nothing and are comfortable with all the other nothings in the world. |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 4:20:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Darn straight it's easy. Especially when they commit humans sacrifices while chanting "god is great", in hopes to please their blood thirsty god enough to earn a pass into paradise through their own acts of depravity. Don't get no more pagan then that. Gee whiz, what more do they need to do in order for a non-Christian like yourself to get it? Burn the beheaded sacrificed bodies on an alter and dance around it naked? I suppose you are also confused as to who the bad guys where during WWII and the Cold War also? Not to tough for me, call a spade a spade, the Nazi's, the Communists, and human sacrificing Fascist pagans are "bad", freaking duh. |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 5:31:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Damn straight! Anyone who can't tell the 'good guys' from the 'bad guys' nowadays, should we even want them to be armed? I think not! At least not in the vicinity of me and my loved ones! Eric The(WhoseSideAreY'allOn,Anyway?)Hun
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Posted: 8/19/2004 5:52:11 PM EDT
[#27]
for someone who judges total strangers for 'finger-pointing', you sure don't have problem with doing it yourself .  have you not read the hadiths ?? they chronicle the life and deeds(most of them despicable !) of Mohammed. read and discern the facts for yourself. Ekie had it right. IT'S EASY !! that is, if you like the truth. |
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Posted: 8/19/2004 9:21:34 PM EDT
[#28]
thank-you, sir. |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 2:17:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Its amazing how arrogant you are in ASSuming people are less well read then you :) You fail to mention that contact with the Muslims who were at the tail end of thier golden age was a huge spark for our Renaissance. I could ASSume your only providing info that supports your twisted worldview, but I prefer to take the high road and just assume you didn't bother to mention it :) The irony is that back then the situation was reversed. Europe was the society perverting religion to justify atrocities and Islam safeguarded knowlege until we had progressed enough to have a use for it. |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 5:02:00 AM EDT
[#30]
Post from Dino:
It's amazing what I read in some folks' posts that demonstrates a lack of fundamental knowledge about this country and the Western World. If someone doesn't know Japan's history in the 1400s, I can understand, but their own country's history, or the history of Western Civilization? What should we think of that? What I find amazing is how folks can get through school without gathering the most elementary knowledge about their culture and its history. I come from a different generation than you likely do, and in my days in school - guess what? We HAD to know significant DATES in History as well as NAMES and PLACES! Try getting anyone under the age of say, 40, to cite significant dates in World History! 'I see a hand in the back of the room..Yes?' 'Mr. Hun, you said that we weren't going to be asked about DATES!' 'Oh yes, Lisa, I quite forgot how adverse the class is to learning DATES.' I think Saturday Night Live had a skit about it!
'Failed to mention'? Son, my post was about Galileo and the Roman Church. Any comments about Islam were purely sidebars. A spark, yes, but the main contribution that the Islamic world gave the Western World was that it alone had recorded all of the Western World's greatest writings. For example, just about everything we have of Greek poetry, literature, science, and the arts came from Islamic sources.
First, my post was not a survey course to World History, it was a very narrowly drawn narration of what occurred in the Western World between the Roman Church and science; that was all. Second, I did mention the Golden Age of Islam, and anyone wanting to know more of this period could have either asked me further questions, or sought out this information on their own. So, shove it, mentally, up that ASS that you seemed preoccupied with this morning!
That is not ironic, at all. That is simply wrong!
Oh, please, let's not go overboard here, Dino! The Islamic World, even during the height of it's greatness, was beset by wars, oppression, and religious turmoil, and well noted for its complete destruction of neighboring cultures! It had its own charming history of atrocities and religious perversions! Are you quite certain that YOU know this time period in history? Eric The(WesternWorldview)Hun
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Posted: 8/20/2004 5:26:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Hey Dino, got a question for you. At this moment, we have a sworn enemy of the US backed into a corner, and the only real question at this point is wether or not the politicians will let the military wipe them of the face of the planet or not, and your response is to attempt to make a moral equivalence between us and them, and you have to reach back a few hundred years to do it. What is up with that?
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Posted: 8/20/2004 5:45:13 AM EDT
[#32]
thanks for reminding me about your post on Galileo :)
I'm curious if you have ever read a novel called 1634 (its in a series that starts with 1632). Your overview of the Galileo trial was reminiscent of the views the author expressed through characters in the book. and yes I'm quite aware of what went on in that time period on both sides. I'm also aware that prior to his recantation, members of the Inquisition gave Galileo a guided tour of the rooms for 'questioning' heretics complete with pointy instruments of persuasion. |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 5:48:37 AM EDT
[#33]
I think we ALL know 'what is up with that'! It is the fallback position for every apologist for anti-Western violence! 'They may be wrong NOW, but we were wrong...way back THEN!' That, and not DATES, is what is being taught in schools across America nowadays! DATES? Eeewwww! Eric The(Western)Hun
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:03:56 AM EDT
[#34]
The reason I have to reach back a few hundred years is because for the last few hundred years we haven't let religious groups run things. And I have said not one word about moral equivalency. I've simply observed that when Christianity was given a free reign, it behaved just as vilely as the Islamofascsicsts are now. All that means is that members of each religion are willing to pervert it to achieve their goals. The opposite is also true. Members of each religion are capable of the greatest demonstrations of love and kindness. What I find amusing is the more outspoken Christians on this board. "My God is greater than your God" "Allah isn't even a real god, he's based on a moon god the original Arabs worshipped" Those in glass houses should not throw stones. |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:07:27 AM EDT
[#35]
But those whose feet are firmly on the Rock may speak with confidence.
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:08:00 AM EDT
[#36]
That's the only sensible thing you've said in this entire thread! 
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:22:36 AM EDT
[#37]
Now THAT was friggin' funny. 
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:24:48 AM EDT
[#38]
Well, whoever's God is in charge, it looks like the Iraqi Police are securing the Mosque and the Al-Sadr boys are bugging out.
www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/20/iraq.main/index.html |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:25:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Not moral equivalency? Then you follow up with more:
Don't think I can add more to that, you restated my case quite well. Seriously, still begs the question, why the need to raise the enemy to our moral status? Sympathy for the devil? |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:28:25 AM EDT
[#40]
Nah I just get sick of the religous hatred I see on this board every day. Plus the idiots who think Allah isn't 'real' because he started off as a moon god and obviously have no clue that the Isrealites originally worshipped many gods and Yawheh was one of them. Lets say I buy that most terrorists are Islamic, does that mean Islam itself is to blame? Most KKK members are Protestants....... I'd say neither group is a reflection on the religion they claim to follow. Its a societal problem. Here society views the KKK as assholes. If we can get Muslim society to view the fascists the same way we're in business. Unfortunately noone has a clue how to force them to accept 500 years of progress so we'll have to settle with just killing them. I'm ok with that, but it has nothing to do with their religion. Reagan had it right, they are mad dogs. I don't need to whip myself into a frenzy of religious hatred to shoot a mad dog. |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:29:47 AM EDT
[#41]
MAybe they elected a new POPE?
TXL |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:41:02 AM EDT
[#42]
*sigh* Reading is Fundamental. If by that you mean "those who misuse religion to justify atrocities are morally equivalent" then yes you are correct, I think they are morally equivalent. If by that you mean "those who use religion to enrich their lives and the lives of others are morally equivalent" then yes you are correct. If by that you mean "those who use religion to enrich thier lives and the lives of others are morally equivalent with those who use religion to justify atrocities" then I would NOT agree with that. |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:50:22 AM EDT
[#43]
BINGO:
I get it now. Given the state of modern education, I could see how a guy could get Jesus Christ, and the Prophet Mohammed's teaching's and deeds confused. Will keep it simple, just a few sentences in an attempt to give you a hand here. It was Christ that shed his own blood, and it was Mohammed's that shed blood. What are we to expect of Mohammed's followers, other then blood shed? For example, when a Muslim saws the head off a Jew, while chanting the "God is great", whom are they emulating other then their great Prophet? Some visual aids might be necessary to get my point across, but would have to check with the posting rules first, some Muslim religious activities are quite graphic. |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 6:55:46 AM EDT
[#44]
Good point, but comprehension is the key, how about starting with reading up on the acts and teachings of Jesus Christ, then compare and contrast with the Prophet Mohammed. Once you got that done, compare the teaching and actions of Christ with those of the KKK, and the teaching and actions of Prophet Mohammed and Islamofacism. I am confident that you will find what you learn to be most interesting. |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 8:07:27 AM EDT
[#45]
Post from Dino -
Bullshiite! Pure fantasy! In the last few hundred years in Western Civilization IF there was any unifying, directing force in the Western World it WAS Christianity! Only within the last several decades have churches in this country lost the role that they had played in shaping the direction of this Country! If there was a Revolution in 1776, it was formed in large measure by the 'Great Awakening' that swept the Colonies in the 1720s to 1740s, reviving and revitalizing American Christianity, and, for the first time ever, there arose a cry in the land that, 'We have no King, but Jesus!' That was a Christian Movement, plain and simple, which led to monumental changes in this Country. If there was an Abolitionist Movement against human slavery in the United States in the 1840s, and 1850s, it was formed in large measure by Christian pastors and their churches. That was a Christian Movement, plain and simple, and it also led to monumental changes in this Country. If there was a Women's Rights Movement and Womens Suffrage Movement in the Country in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, it was also formed in large measure by Christian Pastors and their churches. That was a Christian Movement, as well, although not to the same degree and intensity as the previous Movements, and it also led to monumental changes in this Country. And, finally, if there was a Civil Rights Movement in this Country in the 1950s and 1960s, it, too, was also formed in almost universal measure by Christian Pastors and their churches. It was a decidedly Christian Movement, and it, too, led to monumental changes in this Country! Would you be willing to admit that NONE of those Movements would have gotten started or finished had the Christian churches and their members OPPOSED them to the same degree as they had historically SUPPORTED them? If you are honest, you will admit it.... So, accordingly, the Christian religion has been THE dominant political force in this Country since our very foundation. And it was all accomplished without ONE SUICIDE BOMBER, ONE POGROM, OR ONE HOLOCAUST.
Bullshiite, again! Whatever evil may have been done in the Past by Christians was done in SPITE of the tenets of our religion! Whatever evil that is presently being done TODAY by IslamoFacists is being done ACCORDING to the supposed tenets of their religion! Do you not appreciate this obvious difference?
Some religions seem to be more 'pervertible' than others, eh? And, while history is a great teacher, we should not forget that we are in the here and now, and under attack by a group that would, if given the opportunity, totally destroy the works of Our Revolution, the Emancipation of African slaves, and the enfranchisement of American women! And yet you stammer, and stutter, and wince that one set of people might, just might, be moew praiseworthy than the other! THAT is moral equivalency, Sir, and you display it quite proudly it appears!
On that, and on that only, I can agree with you.
So, like some sort of jaded IslamoFacist yourself, you think that we should NOT express our opinioons and beliefs out loud for all to hear, and you would rather not hear from us at all? 'That'll be the day!' ~ Ethan Edwards (John Wayne), The Searchers, 1956.
'Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. ~ George Santayana 'Those who cannot learn history are doomed to repeat the 4th grade.' ~ Eric The Hun Eric The(Astute)Hun
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Posted: 8/20/2004 8:49:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Hun,
in your mind is there any difference in the 2 phrases: 1) A Christian organization 2) An organization composed primarily of Christians also the following 2 phrases 1) A Christian nation 2) A Nation composed primarily of Christians Most of my shipmates in the Navy were Christian, but the Navy is not a Christian organization. The American Revolution had many non-Christians The Women's right movement had many non-Christians The Civil Rights movement had many non-Christians (including some Muslims *cough*) Your proving the worth of the Christian religion by the good acts that you and I both agree members of ALL religions are capable of. |
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Posted: 8/20/2004 9:13:43 AM EDT
[#47]
big difference between hatred and discernment based on settled facts. have you still not read ?? prophetofdoom.net you just might learn something there
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Posted: 8/20/2004 9:39:13 AM EDT
[#48]
Post from Dino -
But, of course. The first has an avowed purpose of being a Christian organization, I would think, while the second may not. But, by the same token, would not an organization composed primarily of 'Christians' automatically have a 'Christian' viewpoint, adopt Christian forms and rituals, and hold 'Christian' ideals and beliefs, even if there were secular purposes for the organization, as well? The United States Navy certainly did during its glorious history! Ever see or hear of a burial at sea? Sorta Fundamentalist Christian in its language, eh?
Ditto on both my response and my statement, above.
You mean that, in name and by organization, the US Navy is NOT a part of a Christian organization? Yes, that is true, but that begs the question of whether or not if 70% to 80% of the men and women who served, who commanded, and who directed its operations were Christian, that organization would be 'Christian' save in name only.
How many non-Christians? Provide us with your best guess, if you would, and give us your basis for the guess! I doubt that any more than five to ten percent were non-Christian at that time.
Ditto with the Womens Rights Movement....
How many, you reckon? Give us another guestimate, and by what evidence you make your claim. Besides, the Civil Rights Movement appealed to the great mass of Americans by appealing to their Christian beliefs and values, NOT their animist or Islamic beliefs and values. And without the support of the greater number of American Christians, the Movement would have died stillborn.
I am unconcerned with the worth of other religions, for they have yet to produce the sensible, hard working, decent, and productive in all areas of human endeavors that 'mere Christianity' has produced. When they do produce such prodigious results, then they will be worthy of investigation. And don't for a moment think that I am unfamilar with the World's other Great Religions, for I read quite a bit on every religion under the Sun. Just to find their glaring and unimaginative errors. And to continue championing the indisputable Religion beside which all others should remain silent. But that is my personal belief, and I do not expect that you would adopt it. Eric The(WesternWorldRocks)Hun
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