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Posted: 8/22/2005 4:36:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Internet Assault Weapons Boards Directly Linked to Crime; Democrat Congress Members Call for Emergency Legislation
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Posted: 8/22/2005 4:47:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Well. I hope the FFL info and shipping evidence will get them off of my back. I am a little more calm now, but still on guard.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 4:52:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Are they actually on your back? I thought you said they just came by and made an inquiry and further informed you that you were not in trouble? |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 4:55:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Sorry, I'm not going to read the entire tread to tell you this. First, shut up. Don't post about this here. Don't talk about this to your friends (you may talk to your spouse about it). Don't talk to the ATF again without a lawyer. Don't give them anything else without going through your lawyer. Second, shut up.
R. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 4:57:08 PM EDT
[#5]
CFII read this post again. This is exactly what is happening. It's SOP when a firearm is found/seized during a crime. It's a regular old standard trace. It's what the BATF does. You're not under investigation. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 4:57:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Yes, they did leave, but are still needing further information and evidence from me. Im probably just being paranoid now. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 5:00:37 PM EDT
[#7]
If you didn't do anything wrong, you're good to go, man.
 And about the dude with whom you traded the lower, that doesn't necessarily implicate him. HE may have sold it to someone else, and that person may have sold it, etc etc. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 5:01:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Good Lord. It's absofuckinglutely amazing some of you actually leave your house... |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 5:08:42 PM EDT
[#9]
 
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Posted: 8/22/2005 5:11:33 PM EDT
[#10]
I find it sad the lower was transferred to a member and was later found at a crime scene.
Doesn't mean that member committed the crime, for all we know he/she transferred it to someone else. I guess with a board as large as this it's bound to happen, but it does ruin my naivete. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 5:15:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Or stollen |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 5:16:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Could have been stolen from or sold by the person you sold it to. No need to assume the worst from a fellow ARFcommer. Anyone here reported a stolen AR lately?
Stop worrying, you followed the law and did things correctly. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 5:20:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Tag for the drama factor.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 5:22:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Good point. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 5:24:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Seems to me the hive mind could do quite a bit of research if presented with the city, state destination for your lower. As in looking into news reports of crime busts involving weapons and inquiring of those in a position to know. If a dealer used by a member is backdooring guns, we need to know about it. If a member was involved in a crime situation, we need to know about it. If a member had his shot stolen, wouldn't we have already heard about it? There are questions. Questions that need answers: Long time member? Have you run a trace on your P7? I could go on and on. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 5:54:17 PM EDT
[#16]
What he said!!!! ALSO, I am sure I'll get flamed for this from some of the Loony libertarians, but I had a pistol for sale here on the EE. A local guy emailed me stating he would take it. His name was on his email, if it wasn't, I would have asked for it before going through with the deal. Anyway, I asked him if he minded if I check his background on the public access WI Court system web site. He wrote back saying he didn't want paperwork associated with it and wanted to buy it F to F. So of course, I plugged his name and city into the WCCA site at wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl. What I found was a few entries of the type normally associated with a few friends I had just out of high school that still haven't done much to this day but go in and out of jail. The biggie though, was the OPEN DV CASE.......something that disqualifies someone from possesing a firearm. I wrote the guy back and declined the sale on that basis. He tried to talk me into it and even had a friend write me to tell me he was "straight up, a good guy, no need to worry". NO SALE. I would hope most of our members are responsible enough to use these kinds of resources when available. I do not agree with the the DV/Firearms laws (how do I know his GF didn't just call 911 to spite him??? It happens!!). However, common sense should prevail and we need to police our own better if we are going to win the propaganda victories we need to start changing things for the better. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 6:03:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Since when? |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 6:06:04 PM EDT
[#18]
I've had this happen, no big deal.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 7:24:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Ok , I am the other member . I just talked to CFII and he explained the story. His story is correct. Itraded the lower as well . The ATF will be contacting me soon. Should I contact them? Any help on this would be appreciated. I am racking my brain as I type this as to did I trade it to another member or someone local. Please no joking here . This was an FFL to FFL deal and I could get the tracking info from where I shipped to his FFL but that realy does not matter at this point. Irealy think I should contact them but need some help here guys.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 7:37:12 PM EDT
[#20]
First I get scammed by Daniel Ivancso now this. Any advice? I guess I will wait to hear from the ATF and call my FFL and let him know. Or he may already know what is going on. I know I have committed no crimes I just can not believe one I have owned has been used in a crime . This is bad. I will keep you posted .
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Posted: 8/22/2005 7:42:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Hmm. You've got to at least have a bill of sale or something? If not, make sure you know what gun you traded for, as the big guys will probably want to trace it and see if they can find their guy that way. Geez. After all the coments above about FTF, it turns out the you may actually may have an issue there if you didn't keep records. I personally would spend the time now trying to retrace that "follow on" transaction and consider whether you've got any information to provide to them. I would _also_ take stock of your gun safe, and be prepared to explain the origins of your various guns. The closer the alphabet guys get to the end of the chain, the more extreme they might be so consider lawyering up at the first indication they're trying to target you instead of get information from you (sometimes hard to tell). Best of luck. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 7:47:09 PM EDT
[#22]
This must be the worst nightmare of any responsible gun owner. Good luck.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 7:52:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Guys it was a DPMS with a Magpull M93 stock and their old style grip . I think I sold it as a complete lower . It would have been most likely here or Sturm.that it was traded because I realy don't do much at the gunshows. I just do not remember I am a little shaken at this point and trying to trace things back.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 7:52:46 PM EDT
[#24]
The ATF seized an illegal machine gun from me without arresting me. I wouldn't get too stressed if you know you haven't done anything wrong.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 8:00:07 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 8/22/2005 8:02:42 PM EDT
[#26]
whats the story behind this.. ? how would you come across a non reg-MG ? must be an interesting story.. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 8:06:42 PM EDT
[#27]
I'd guess it was simply one of the improperly de-milled FAL kits from about a year back. Having an importer (that remains under federal indictment as of this writing) ship you a kit that's not properly demilled is not, in my view, as stressful as the guys in this thread must be feeling. They've got a weapon reported as being at a crime scene and, especially as to the more recent poster in this thread, scarce little to go on in terms of documenting their transfer out. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 8:16:22 PM EDT
[#28]
It was the MK specialties fiasco. I bought a forged M1A receiver he was starting to manufacture before he cleared the design with ATF, which ended up ruling that the design was too easily converted to FA. Mike Kelly Sr. just got sentenced.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 8:38:44 PM EDT
[#29]
I remember that: Rewelds of M14 receivers, right? He should have known you guys would get nailed. Did he issue refunds? I don't recall. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 8:59:07 PM EDT
[#30]
He did re-welds before he started the manufacture of the forged new recievers. I knew about the round-up of the re-welds but one day read something somewhere-I think it was battlerifles.com that made me concerned.
I called my FFL to see if by chance he had heard anything. He had. That day. It was a freaky co-incidence. I got the agents info and spoke with him. He was in San Francisco and I had moved to Reno by then. They had the local field office contact me. We set up an appointment, I brought it down and surrendered it. Other than them telling me that the difference between me signing the surrender paperwork and letting them "seize" it would involve filing charges against me, it was a painless experience. As far as the money, yes I'm out. The Kelly's were shut down and filed bankruptcy. I did get a letter saying that there were assets from which I might get something back but I never bothered to file for anything. |
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Posted: 8/22/2005 9:04:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Ok, just to let you know I did not trade it here . I sold it at a local gunshow. I feel better knowing that I have something to tell them other than I can't remember. I have learned a llesson. I will never do a local deal without an FFL or a bill of sale EVER NO MATTER WHAT!! EVER.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 9:14:50 PM EDT
[#32]
I want you guys to know, that for the record, I had nothing to do with this.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 9:33:56 PM EDT
[#33]
When I ship a firearm, I take a picture of it sitting beside the FFL. Most digital cameras have resolution like a copier. You get the gun, serial number, FFL, and you can add the buyer info too.
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Posted: 8/22/2005 9:46:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Just guaranteeing an unnecessary escalation. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:37:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Tag.
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:47:17 AM EDT
[#36]
A good many of them don't. Look at the post counts. Over 400 since March. As for the original poster, don't worry about it. Typical "mountain of paperwork" stuff on the part of the Feds. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 5:47:39 AM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 8/26/2005 6:40:53 AM EDT
[#38]
While I agree that nothing will likely come of this it's always a good idea to have an attorney when you are involved in an investigation with any governmental authority. Better to let the attorney handle it and say nothing then to run the risk of incriminating yourself.
It's always amusing to hear the LEO's say you don't need an attorney. Ask them if they have it in their union contract/departmental procedures that they can't be questioned in any departmental investigation unless a personal or PBA attorney is present to represent them. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 6:53:55 AM EDT
[#39]
I would possibly get an attorney and contact the ATF, to look proactive. Tell them that you heard what was going on and you want to settle this and you'll give them any info you have about it.
I think it would look better if you went to them rather than make them look for you. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 7:15:30 AM EDT
[#40]
CFII:
Met you at your job there in FT. Worth, best of luck in this situation but it looks like SOP for the feds and nothing bad for you. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 7:27:42 AM EDT
[#41]
Its all good now. Talked to the ATF agent on tuesday, gave him all of the info I had. He said I wont be talking to them again. Whew 
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Posted: 8/26/2005 7:38:52 AM EDT
[#42]
"Wont be talking to them again"! That's code for "We'll be back at zero dark thirty for you".RUN!!! J/K-glad it worked out for you. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 7:55:46 AM EDT
[#43]
Posts per day: Freemanesq - 2.69 Johninaustin - 2.57  CR |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 8:56:30 AM EDT
[#44]
Exactly! A ftf transfer is perfectly legal in Texas, and since he's not an FFL he has no burden to question the buyer if he looks OK. It's not his problem, it's the ATF's. |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 9:01:47 AM EDT
[#45]
Is ftf with no paper transfer legal in your state? If so DO NOT SWEAT IT! |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 10:31:16 AM EDT
[#46]
While I do agree with you in this specific case I am suprised, considering your avatar, to hear you say this. I think you would agree that millions of European Jews who "did nothing wrong" really did have A LOT to worry about regarding encounters with law enforcement during the 1930s-1940s. Not intended to be a flame, just a thought. I am not advocating any sort of armed or violent engagement but all conversations with law enforcement (particularly ATF) should be approached with guarded suspicion. Your responses to LEO questioning are used to build a case against you. PERIOD. CFII: I do agree with Chapperjoe that it sounds like you have followed the letter of the law and you really don't have anything to worry about BUT you do need to get your ducks in a row. Gather ALL the paerwork you can find regarding the sale (names, addresses, dates, receipts, cashed checks, etc. do you have e-mail records?) Only because you have already been approached by ATF I would find a lawyer experienced with this type of case (NRA might be able to refer you to lawyers licensed in your state) and consult about your rights and exposure regarding what happened. If the Feds want to question you again I would bring your own lawyer and advise all parties that you want to cooperate in any way to bring the bad guys to Justice but that you must protect your rights in the process. I know this will cost some money but you really don't want to walk any further into this minefield without support on your side. That said , don't freak out! Federal agents interview citizens everyday and in most cases no dogs are harmed in any way. Now go have that drink! |
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