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Quoted: TRFPNI (The Real First Post Nails It) Either FCD or his dealer had the opportunity to inspect the firearm, call Atlantic Firearms and discuss the advertised condition and potentially refuse the transfer. The “fair condition” applies here, and it seems like Atlantic does NOT have a replacement part. They didn’t do their due diligence, and got dimpled for it. If the ad clearly states there might be issues and it is up to the buyer to fix then this is squarely on the buyer. I’m not buying the pedantic argument that it is a wrong part not a worn part. Pretty flimsy reasoning given what buying surplus entails. Working in customer service I can also say the “are you suggesting the dealer switched out the slide” line that came out of left field is usually a sign the customer knows they don’t have a leg to stand on and need to switch focus to “win” the argument. I’m glad my company doesn’t have us post or respond to forum drama llama situations “xxx have lost a customer!!!” post. |
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My one issue related to AF was a Waffen Works ak74 so you know it was awhile back. Wouldn't feed right, I think the mag catch was not right, mags didn't sit quite high enough. I emailed them on a Sunday evening asking what I should do. Had an email with a return shipping label to WW in my inbox when I woke up Monday. I sent it right out, WW fixed it in a day and I had it back Saturday running 100%. |
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Quoted: Surplus guns often have mismatched parts. Its always better to buy in person if you can otherwise you run the risk of having a mix master. Could have refused the transfer. yup. Its a gamble when buying surplus or trade in. Whiny post is whiny. Ive spent a butt load of cash at atlantic and always been happy. |
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Quoted: Customer didn’t buy from Atlantic. Customer bought from dealer that bought from Atlantic. Quoted: Quoted: I hope you don't ever complain here when something like that happens to you. Your level of CS should have nothing to do with the status of the customer for individual transactions like this. Especially when the customer hasn't done anything wrong beyond trying to get a functional gun.  Customer didn’t buy from Atlantic. Customer bought from dealer that bought from Atlantic. oh, I should have kept reading. Why the F is this atlantics issue? |
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Quoted: Train wreck in the first three posts. I barely got my seat belt buckled before the impact.  Willing to bet you wouldn't be thinking that way if you were the recipient of a shitty deal. Pawning off a gun on an unsuspecting buyer is a shitty way of doing business...any way you look at it. |
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Quoted: He should have just replied with the description of “fair” as it clearly wasn’t read. FAIR- some major parts replaced; minor replacement parts may be required; metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or reblued; rounded edges of metal and wood; principal lettering, numerals and design on metal partly obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked or repaired where broken; in fair working order or can be easily repaired and placed in working order. The condition is disclosed on all of their used firearms. A slide stop isn’t a minor part. On a CZ 7x/8x pistol (which Duffy got) that serves as the takedown lever and it secures the barrel/frame linkage. If it’s broken or replaced with the wrong part the gun may not cycle or may have lousy accuracy. On a pistol like a 1911, a slide stop is a hand fitted part and not a simple matter of dropping in a replacement. A minor part would be something like wear components such as springs or a small pin/screw holding a non-critical part. |
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Quoted: A slide stop isn’t a minor part. On a CZ 7x/8x pistol (which Duffy got) that serves as the takedown lever and it secures the barrel/frame linkage. If it’s broken or replaced with the wrong part the gun may not cycle or may have lousy accuracy. On a pistol like a 1911, a slide stop is a hand fitted part and not a simple matter of dropping in a replacement. A minor part would be something like wear components such as springs or a small pin/screw holding a non-critical part. If it can be easily replaced, it's a minor part IMO. A barrel/slide/frame is a "non-minor" part. |
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Quoted: Willing to bet you wouldn't be thinking that way if you were the recipient of a shitty deal. Pawning off a gun on an unsuspecting buyer is a shitty way of doing business...any way you look at it. Pretty much all I buy anymore are old used, surplus, pd trades, like that. You need to be prepared to put a little extra time/money into them sometimes. It's the nature of buying those kinds of guns. |
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Quoted: If it can be easily replaced, it's a minor part IMO. A barrel/slide/frame is a "non-minor" part. Quoted: Quoted: A slide stop isn’t a minor part. On a CZ 7x/8x pistol (which Duffy got) that serves as the takedown lever and it secures the barrel/frame linkage. If it’s broken or replaced with the wrong part the gun may not cycle or may have lousy accuracy. On a pistol like a 1911, a slide stop is a hand fitted part and not a simple matter of dropping in a replacement. A minor part would be something like wear components such as springs or a small pin/screw holding a non-critical part. If it can be easily replaced, it's a minor part IMO. A barrel/slide/frame is a "non-minor" part. If you are missing a barrel/slide/frame you don’t even have a complete gun anymore, just a parts kit incapable of forming a gun that can be fired, let alone fired safely and reliably. But if our criteria for minor is “easily replaced” what would you do if someone on the EE sold you a rifle missing a gas tube/piston, buffer, or bolt without disclosing that? |
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Quoted: If it can be easily replaced, it's a minor part IMO. A barrel/slide/frame is a "non-minor" part. Quoted: Quoted: A slide stop isn’t a minor part. On a CZ 7x/8x pistol (which Duffy got) that serves as the takedown lever and it secures the barrel/frame linkage. If it’s broken or replaced with the wrong part the gun may not cycle or may have lousy accuracy. On a pistol like a 1911, a slide stop is a hand fitted part and not a simple matter of dropping in a replacement. A minor part would be something like wear components such as springs or a small pin/screw holding a non-critical part. If it can be easily replaced, it's a minor part IMO. A barrel/slide/frame is a "non-minor" part. The slide stop on a CZ is a drop in part with no fitting required. Honestly it is news to me that a slide stop on a 1911 requires hand fitting. Still not sure on that one. It looks like someone put a PO1 or some other version stop in an older CZ and it is too long. I imagine the last round hold open may not work right, but otherwise the gun would probably function. If its an older (preB) gun, I dont know if they had shorter stops than a B. And I dont think the 85 had a shorter stop, just the ambi one as mentioned earlier. If we knew which CZ OP or whoever ordered it would make more sense. But it looks like the buyer has already ordered the right slide stop anyway, so they have already figured it out. Eh, such is a risk buying used surplus guns. ETA- from the pics its not an 85, and the owner (not OP) referred to it as an "old CZ" so I am thinking a preB CZ75 and that it has a CZ75B or a P01 slide stop in it. The polymer guns have a different shape slide stop, so its probably from some kind of metal frame CZ. Or depending on where it was surplussed from, maybe a Jericho. I dont know it those interchange or not. |
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Quoted: If you are missing a barrel/slide/frame you don’t even have a complete gun anymore, just a parts kit incapable of forming a gun that can be fired, let alone fired safely and reliably. But if our criteria for minor is “easily replaced” what would you do if someone on the EE sold you a rifle missing a gas tube/piston, buffer, or bolt without disclosing that? You missed the part where it’s a surplus firearm sold as is… and the item needing replacement is readily available and drops right in… ????? |
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Quoted: If you are missing a barrel/slide/frame you don’t even have a complete gun anymore, just a parts kit incapable of forming a gun that can be fired, let alone fired safely and reliably. But if our criteria for minor is “easily replaced” what would you do if someone on the EE sold you a rifle missing a gas tube/piston, buffer, or bolt without disclosing that? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A slide stop isn’t a minor part. On a CZ 7x/8x pistol (which Duffy got) that serves as the takedown lever and it secures the barrel/frame linkage. If it’s broken or replaced with the wrong part the gun may not cycle or may have lousy accuracy. On a pistol like a 1911, a slide stop is a hand fitted part and not a simple matter of dropping in a replacement. A minor part would be something like wear components such as springs or a small pin/screw holding a non-critical part. If it can be easily replaced, it's a minor part IMO. A barrel/slide/frame is a "non-minor" part. If you are missing a barrel/slide/frame you don’t even have a complete gun anymore, just a parts kit incapable of forming a gun that can be fired, let alone fired safely and reliably. But if our criteria for minor is “easily replaced” what would you do if someone on the EE sold you a rifle missing a gas tube/piston, buffer, or bolt without disclosing that? If it was listed as a condition that may contain missing or missmatched parts and some repair might be required? Factor that into the price of the item. Or ask for more detailed information before placing my order. Surplus guns are cheaper for a reason. |
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Read the fine print or take the risk that you end up like this guy. If it was advertised as NRA surplus and that is defined as stating some parts may need to be replaced than the firearm may come with parts that need to be replaced. Pretty sraight forward. I have had a few email exchanges with Atlantic Firearms over the years regardig enquiries I've had (never purchased any firearms from them) and they have always been very professional and quick to help me. In fact, I had an Atlantic Firearms guy actually tell me that I'd be better off not buying a certain firearm they sold, he could have made money selling it to me but based on the information I provided to him he pointed me in a better direction. I was a relatively new to firearms guy at that time and they helped me out. I have a lot of respect for Atlantic Firearms for having done that and been so honest. Granted, that was many, many years ago now, but I haven't seen anything including this post to change my mind about them. |
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The FFL ordered it on my behest, it was ordered for me, he didn't order a bunch to carry in his store. When asked if it could be returned, they would not take a return. Worn out parts I'd understand, completely mismatching/wrong part is different. I didn't ask them to replace a worn out part, but a part that's obviously from a different model. |
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Quoted: If it was listed as a condition that may contain missing or missmatched parts and some repair might be required? Factor that into the price of the item. Or ask for more detailed information before placing my order. Surplus guns are cheaper for a reason. Quoted: If it was listed as a condition that may contain missing or missmatched parts and some repair might be required? Factor that into the price of the item. Or ask for more detailed information before placing my order. Surplus guns are cheaper for a reason. Quoted: You missed the part where it’s a surplus firearm sold as is… and the item needing replacement is readily available and drops right in… ????? Okay, so if I list my milsurp pistols on the EE and they have incorrect replacements for guide rods, slide stops, locking blocks, firing pins, etc and a buyer starts a negative feedback thread, you guys are gonna side with me right? |
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Quoted: If you are missing a barrel/slide/frame you don't even have a complete gun anymore, just a parts kit incapable of forming a gun that can be fired, let alone fired safely and reliably. But if our criteria for minor is "easily replaced" what would you do if someone on the EE sold you a rifle missing a gas tube/piston, buffer, or bolt without disclosing that? |
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Quoted: This is about two crybabys who didn't get the attention they wanted in Industry so they dragged this to GD. Thanks for reminding me never to purchase anything from Forward Control Designs. Quoted: Quoted: This is about warning others of this behavior, you think it’s the cost of the part that disturbs me, you know as little about what we do as you know my reasons for exposing them. Not that we need to explain the cost of US sourced and made products to folks that don't know manufacturing, wholesale and retail, you have no idea what our margin is, and i don't care to change your mind. For those that care for such things, we spend 3x the cost on simple things as US made screws when foreign screws might do the job, imagine what we spend on everything else. We are an R&D shop that contracts shops in TX, ID, CA and OR to have our designs made, never made a secret of it. I didn’t ask him to post it, you again project, that’s what you would do. They refused to take a return. Quoted: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Kn7nCLJPO7k/maxresdefault.jpg I love that the owner of a company that oursources production of some of the most overpriced AR parts on the market is bitching about an incredibly cheap replacement part for a used, military surplus item And has to have their friend/customer/fellow whiner spam posts about it all over too In the time it took to post all these whining threads you could've had the part you need on order This is about two crybabys who didn't get the attention they wanted in Industry so they dragged this to GD. Thanks for reminding me never to purchase anything from Forward Control Designs. dont worry i'll be glad to give them more of my money, roger has always taken care of any questions or problems ive had. |
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Quoted: Okay, so if I list my milsurp pistols on the EE and they have incorrect replacements for guide rods, slide stops, locking blocks, firing pins, etc and a buyer starts a negative feedback thread, you guys are gonna side with me right? If you listed them as a lot and said individual ones may have parts that have been or need to be replaced then yes of course. How is this hard to understand? |
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Quoted: Willing to bet you wouldn't be thinking that way if you were the recipient of a shitty deal. Pawning off a gun on an unsuspecting buyer is a shitty way of doing business...any way you look at it. How should surplus firearms be sold? With a full warranty by the seller? |
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Quoted: Okay, so if I list my milsurp pistols on the EE and they have incorrect replacements for guide rods, slide stops, locking blocks, firing pins, etc and a buyer starts a negative feedback thread, you guys are gonna side with me right? Quoted: Quoted: If it was listed as a condition that may contain missing or missmatched parts and some repair might be required? Factor that into the price of the item. Or ask for more detailed information before placing my order. Surplus guns are cheaper for a reason. Quoted: You missed the part where it’s a surplus firearm sold as is… and the item needing replacement is readily available and drops right in… ????? Okay, so if I list my milsurp pistols on the EE and they have incorrect replacements for guide rods, slide stops, locking blocks, firing pins, etc and a buyer starts a negative feedback thread, you guys are gonna side with me right? If you listed it as surplus condition and some parts may be mismatched or require replacement then your description was straight forward and not afoul of any rules. I cant see you getting dinged for that. If a buyer had questions i would expect them to ask. But if you are only selling a single item i would expect your familiarity with that single pistol to be a bit more detailed. if you had crates of an item like that, i would not expect you to provide pics of each and every mismatched part and would assume the overall condition of the lot is as described. I buy a lot of very old milsurp. Some from here, some from gun broker, some from various auction houses and resellers. When you are in the habit of buying used guns, especially if there is a large lot of them (think RTI), you are going to get a general description and should factor in what comes with that purchase. it aint like buying a NIB Glock from a seller and you should expect the possibility of unknowns. |
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Quoted: Customer didn’t buy from Atlantic. Customer bought from dealer that bought from Atlantic. Attached File The dealer should have caught this. Dealer buys weapon, dealer owns it. Dealer sells it. Simple. I’ve bought stuff from Atlantic and had issues. Atlantic contacts me, has a resolution, end of story. They have been nothing but above board and transparent with me. Maybe God has blessed me, I don’t know. But that’s my experience with Atlantic. If I bought from a dealer, that’s the person who I talk to, not some company down the supply chain. |
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Quoted: They should avoid getting into the C&R milsurp game. Thats where the big money on missing/incorrect parts is. Quoted: Quoted: It's a used/surplus gun. These things will happen. They should avoid getting into the C&R milsurp game. Thats where the big money on missing/incorrect parts is. Going to bitch at the CMP for mismatched Garand parts? LOL I'm almost embarrassed for the two players in this deal not AF. <----has bought a lot of surplus/used guns. Sometimes you are golden, sometimes you have to replace parts. Welcome to life. |
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The guy infamously known as MAC imported the first FEG HD-18 Dragunov clones and put them for sale at Copper Customs for $7500; nearly everyone on arfcom and in the gun community melted down and threw tantrums. Atlantic took over selling them for $8500, and everyone was suddenly happy. Atlantic smart. Gun community stupid. |
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Quoted: If you listed them as a lot and said individual ones may have parts that have been or need to be replaced then yes of course. How is this hard to understand? Quoted: Quoted: Okay, so if I list my milsurp pistols on the EE and they have incorrect replacements for guide rods, slide stops, locking blocks, firing pins, etc and a buyer starts a negative feedback thread, you guys are gonna side with me right? If you listed them as a lot and said individual ones may have parts that have been or need to be replaced then yes of course. How is this hard to understand? Trust me, the EE mods won’t see it that way. You’re welcome to try it yourself. |
| Yeah, I’m kinda on AF side with a used “fair” condition milsurp. They usually will have, “ has issues” in the description, at least when I have bought a multitude of milsurp rifles and pistols. Why did the buyer accept it at the dealer? I always go over guns before I take possession. |
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Quoted: This thread shows who has dealt in the milsurp world and who hasn’t. And who shouldn’t. Attached File |
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Quoted: Trust me, the EE mods won’t see it that way. You’re welcome to try it yourself. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Okay, so if I list my milsurp pistols on the EE and they have incorrect replacements for guide rods, slide stops, locking blocks, firing pins, etc and a buyer starts a negative feedback thread, you guys are gonna side with me right? If you listed them as a lot and said individual ones may have parts that have been or need to be replaced then yes of course. How is this hard to understand? Trust me, the EE mods won’t see it that way. You’re welcome to try it yourself. Trust me bro. I can't prove it but trust me bro. If you listed surplus guns with the caveat that they're in unknown condition and may need parts they are what they are. I've sold broken guns here before with zero issues. |
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Quoted: The FFL ordered it on my behest, it was ordered for me, he didn't order a bunch to carry in his store. When asked if it could be returned, they would not take a return. Worn out parts I'd understand, completely mismatching/wrong part is different. I didn't ask them to replace a worn out part, but a part that's obviously from a different model. Quoted: The FFL ordered it on my behest, it was ordered for me, he didn't order a bunch to carry in his store. When asked if it could be returned, they would not take a return. Worn out parts I'd understand, completely mismatching/wrong part is different. I didn't ask them to replace a worn out part, but a part that's obviously from a different model. Your expectations weren’t met and that can be frustrating. However from Atlantic’s website: By placing an order with Atlantic Firearms you are agreeing to our Return Terms. Please feel free to contact us with any questions you may have prior to making you firearms purchase. Atlantic Link Either you or your dealer should have read the above. You are complaining about mismatched/wrong parts on a used surplus gun - Atlantic does not have the spare “correct” part for you, and you’ve already ordered the “correct” part. It sounds like you have expectations of customer service as a provider of boutique AR parts and you think that should apply across the “industry”. It doesn’t work that way. Surplus Guns =/= Boutique AR Parts. Also if you have issues with Industry Partners being able to delete threads in their forum you may want to speak to AR15 management about that. |
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Quoted: Trust me, the EE mods won’t see it that way. You’re welcome to try it yourself. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Okay, so if I list my milsurp pistols on the EE and they have incorrect replacements for guide rods, slide stops, locking blocks, firing pins, etc and a buyer starts a negative feedback thread, you guys are gonna side with me right? If you listed them as a lot and said individual ones may have parts that have been or need to be replaced then yes of course. How is this hard to understand? Trust me, the EE mods won’t see it that way. You’re welcome to try it yourself. Maybe you should go take that up with the EE Mods. You also need to understand not every website out there is the EE or has the same rules. |
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Quoted: Trust me bro. I can't prove it but trust me bro. If you listed surplus guns with the caveat that they're in unknown condition and may need parts they are what they are. I've sold broken guns here before with zero issues. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Okay, so if I list my milsurp pistols on the EE and they have incorrect replacements for guide rods, slide stops, locking blocks, firing pins, etc and a buyer starts a negative feedback thread, you guys are gonna side with me right? If you listed them as a lot and said individual ones may have parts that have been or need to be replaced then yes of course. How is this hard to understand? Trust me, the EE mods won’t see it that way. You’re welcome to try it yourself. Trust me bro. I can't prove it but trust me bro. If you listed surplus guns with the caveat that they're in unknown condition and may need parts they are what they are. I've sold broken guns here before with zero issues. My very first gun sale on this site was a fubar Vulcan (Hesse).. Sold it with a full description of what it was and what it wasnt for a fair price. Sold in a day and have positive feedback from the sale. |
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Quoted: Your expectations weren’t met and that can be frustrating. However from Atlantic’s website: Atlantic Link Either you or your dealer should have read the above. You are complaining about mismatched/wrong parts on a used surplus gun - Atlantic does not have the spare “correct” part for you, and you’ve already ordered the “correct” part. It sounds like you have expectations of customer service as a provider of boutique AR parts and you think that should apply across the “industry”. It doesn’t work that way. Surplus Guns =/= Boutique AR Parts. Also if you have issues with Industry Partners being able to delete threads in their forum you may want to speak to AR15 management about that. Quoted: Quoted: The FFL ordered it on my behest, it was ordered for me, he didn't order a bunch to carry in his store. When asked if it could be returned, they would not take a return. Worn out parts I'd understand, completely mismatching/wrong part is different. I didn't ask them to replace a worn out part, but a part that's obviously from a different model. Your expectations weren’t met and that can be frustrating. However from Atlantic’s website: By placing an order with Atlantic Firearms you are agreeing to our Return Terms. Please feel free to contact us with any questions you may have prior to making you firearms purchase. Atlantic Link Either you or your dealer should have read the above. You are complaining about mismatched/wrong parts on a used surplus gun - Atlantic does not have the spare “correct” part for you, and you’ve already ordered the “correct” part. It sounds like you have expectations of customer service as a provider of boutique AR parts and you think that should apply across the “industry”. It doesn’t work that way. Surplus Guns =/= Boutique AR Parts. Also if you have issues with Industry Partners being able to delete threads in their forum you may want to speak to AR15 management about that. Bottom line is he shouldn’t have accepted the transfer if he was unhappy and should know that as an FFL. |
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Quoted: I bet Atlantic Firearms doesnt have a replacement part to give the buyer. If they did, I'm sure they would just send it and avoid this drama. I mean, you're buying a surplus gun...I don't know the exact definition of NRA surplus, but I know enough that there's a good chance it wont be perfect. I had to take a quick peak at Forward Control Designs since it was mentioned...I didnt notice anything that stood out to me as overpriced. Their stuff looks good from my cursory glance. Atlantic Firearms should have just told buyer that they dont have extra parts. Buyer should have chalked it up to a lesson learned not to buy surplus guns. Dragging it to GD was probably not the best move, buyer is going to get piled on. +1 FCD stuff is top notch and Roger is a great guy. Because of that, this thread is painful for me to read. |
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Quoted: Mods ought to close this thread and ban a motherfucker for badmouthing AF like this. I mean that's big gay. Another key board warrior I see. I made this post to make people aware of the shady bs of Atlantic deleting a post about this issue on their industry forum. Clearly you warriors support shitty company’s and then try to attack people that bring awareness. It’s not about the money, it’s about the shitty CS and then deleting the post. Hopefully all your purchases go well, because you sure deserve them to be screwed up for being an arrogant ass! |
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Quoted: The FFL ordered it on my behest, it was ordered for me, he didn't order a bunch to carry in his store. When asked if it could be returned, they would not take a return. Worn out parts I'd understand, completely mismatching/wrong part is different. I didn't ask them to replace a worn out part, but a part that's obviously from a different model. That makes sense. |
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Quoted: If you are missing a barrel/slide/frame you don’t even have a complete gun anymore, just a parts kit incapable of forming a gun that can be fired, let alone fired safely and reliably. But if our criteria for minor is “easily replaced” what would you do if someone on the EE sold you a rifle missing a gas tube/piston, buffer, or bolt without disclosing that? if it was advertised that way nothing. the part here is it was clearly advertised as potentially needing parts replaced. |
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