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Link Posted: 9/16/2009 6:06:13 PM EDT
[#1]
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[That's the problem. There are no real conservatives to vote for. Give me a pro-choice, anti-interventionist who supports smaller government and reduced taxation without trying to legislate morality, and I'll vote Republican again. As long as we have bible thumpers who seek foreign dragons to slay, you've lost my support.



With your set of requirements, you will have trouble finding viable candidates. Consider this political calculus:

1) Which is more important: free markets (small government) or "a woman's right to choose"? Consider how much legislation Congress creates, and the fact that well over 90% of it is primarly economic in impact. Sure, there is the rare, symbolic legislation that concerns flag burning, gay marriage, etc., and everyone goes apeshit, but the real impact is in the legislation with heavy economic impact . . .

2) What happens if we get more big government? What is the result, say, if 0bama gets his way on cap & trade and medical care and immigration?

3) What happens if Bible thumping conservatives strike down Roe V Wade? The 10th still prevents a federal ban on abortion (and I think even few Bible thumpers would violate the 10th). The result would be the feds throwing the issue back to the states. UT would likely ban abortions, CA would probably provide state funding . . .

4) How are Bible thumpers going to strike down R V W? They would have to pack the court, not easy.

I'm more or less neutral on the abortion debate, but even if I was "pro choice" the above logic weighs economic considerations, free markets, and small government as a much more important issue. Abortion is an emotional flashpoint, but from a pragmatic perspective, not that important of an issue. The feds will not ban it. Roe V Wade probably won't be overturned dispite the weak logic of the decision. If it is overturned, it will become a state issue.

So, if I was you, I'd ditch the abortion issue as a primary decider. The economic one remains a primary decider.

I won't delve into the intervention thing here, since I don't want to confuse the issue.


Bingo...the social conservatism of the GOP is far less dangerous than the economic policies of the Democratic party.

Lesser of two evils. And that evil ain't too bad.


That is my stance where the rubber meets the road.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 6:06:45 PM EDT
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gay



Who says intelligent debate is dead?


In his defence, his reply was at least as intelligent as the post he was replying to.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 6:23:16 PM EDT
[#3]
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Cthulhu 2012!

Why vote for a lesser evil?



Most won't get this, but I do.
You are right!
That would make a great T-shirt.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 6:56:14 PM EDT
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Yeah, because there's no difference bewteen what McCain would have done and what Obama has done/is trying to do.



You're cutting off your nose to spite your face, and it's ridiculous.


I disagree.

Now is the best time to start putting some support behind a 3rd party.

Better than waiting till election year.

Just don't let it be Ron Paul.





Why?  To divide the Right even more?




-K



There is no right. This is what people don't get today. We have left and center left. McCain or Obama, Romney or Clinton it makes little difference. In all honesty would four years under McCain have really been much better? Not enough to continue holding your nose at the ballot box. I for voted McCain/Bush/Bush and still regret that today. It will not happen again. Until the GOP moves back to the right third parties will get my vote. Fuck the Republicrats and their RINO offerings.


So we can count on you to help Obama get elected then, right?


If thats how you want to look at it then fine by me. I see the liberals hiding behind an (R) can count on your blind support.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 8:12:35 PM EDT
[#5]
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[span style='font-weight: bold;']

Both sides need to find common ground and work to achieve it.  They used to do this.  There is no reason it can't be done now.


I hope we can.  We need to get around the idea that people who disagree with us (peers & pols) are acting from malign intent especially when it is debate between political allies - and potential allies.

Really what we see in the two major political parties (dragging in the dems now) is in-house factionalism that tends to manifest as inter-party disputes in other countries.  Progressives and Modern Liberals on the left with Classical Liberals and Social Conservatives on the right with a few smaller groups on either side.  Coalition building and compromise within party is the nature of the game.  This lends a lot of credence to those who have been arguing in this thread about the importance of the party primaries and nominations.

For some reason your post gave me hope :)

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 8:24:47 PM EDT
[#6]
More divide and conquer manure.  

You know some of the people here are so obtuse they deserve Obama, they really deserve the screwing they are getting.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 8:30:37 PM EDT
[#7]



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Yeah, because there's no difference bewteen what McCain would have done and what Obama has done/is trying to do.








You're cutting off your nose to spite your face, and it's ridiculous.




I disagree.



Now is the best time to start putting some support behind a 3rd party.



Better than waiting till election year.



Just don't let it be Ron Paul.




I disagree. I don't see any way a 3rd party is going to do anything but split our vote. What we need is a viable Republican candidate who's a real conservative, and has leadership skills.



don't waste your vote voting third party, you think any libs that don't like Obama are going to vote 3rd party???   hell no, you voting 3rd party is a wasted vote, don't be stupid, but a bunch of conservatives on the hill in 2010 and lets get the reigns on Obama....  Don't waste a vote third party when you can make it useful by voting Republican, if all the idiots that voted third party libertarian or constitutional had just voted Republican we'd at least have McCain in office....





 
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 8:39:50 PM EDT
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Yeah, because there's no difference bewteen what McCain would have done and what Obama has done/is trying to do.



You're cutting off your nose to spite your face, and it's ridiculous.


I disagree.

Now is the best time to start putting some support behind a 3rd party.

Better than waiting till election year.

Just don't let it be Ron Paul.



That would do nothing but assure liberal Democratic control of this country for the forseeable future.


it would be assurance of America's destruction, we'll be hard pressed to survive 4 years of this president, another 4 would do this country in.


Do you think it's soley the democrats fault we are where we are today?


That's beside the point, a republican president in 2012 won't finish America off, 8 year of this administration will, so do what should be done to prevent the destruction of America 1st, then rebuild.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 8:48:20 PM EDT
[#9]
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My mind is made up.

One fucking party with 2 heads doesn't cut it.

I don't care who show up with balls, skirt or not, I'm going with it.

Anything is better than what we have or could have had in 08.

Sarah, Fred, Perot, I don't care, time to make some waves.

That is all.



Nor will I.
If the Republicans lose again, it's their fault for not bringing 'us' back to their side.
It'd be the voters fault for voting for lesser of two evils also
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:25:21 PM EDT
[#10]
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Yeah, because there's no difference bewteen what McCain would have done and what Obama has done/is trying to do.



You're cutting off your nose to spite your face, and it's ridiculous.


I disagree.

Now is the best time to start putting some support behind a 3rd party.

Better than waiting till election year.

Just don't let it be Ron Paul.



That would do nothing but assure liberal Democratic control of this country for the forseeable future.


it would be assurance of America's destruction, we'll be hard pressed to survive 4 years of this president, another 4 would do this country in.


Do you think it's soley the democrats fault we are where we are today?


That's beside the point, a republican president in 2012 won't finish America off, 8 year of this administration will, so do what should be done to prevent the destruction of America 1st, then rebuild.


No.  Republicans will finish us off in 20 years.  Republicans aren't the answer to the problem.  It may just take the destruction of America before "republicans" finally see how far their beloved party has screwed them.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:27:18 PM EDT
[#11]

No. Republicans will finish us off in 20 years. Republicans aren't the
answer to the problem. It may just take the destruction of America
before "republicans" finally see how far their beloved party has
screwed them.




The answer to this is to REFORM the party from within, not abandon it.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:54:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 6:18:43 AM EDT
[#13]



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More divide and conquer manure.  



You know some of the people here are so obtuse they deserve Obama, they really deserve the screwing they are getting.




You are 100% correct.



But the shame of it is that we have to suffer along with them because of their stupidity.







Some of us have to suffer regardless of which socialist gets elected.



 
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