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Posted: 3/16/2006 12:01:37 PM EDT
[#1]
one thing that most people don't realise is the military is made up of the same people you deal with in civillian life. there are good and bad serving. Theives,liars,criminals, right along next to good decent people and hero's. Hell Lew Tippie was a former marine and soldier and look what thief,liar and general turd he turned out to be.
MIlitary service is one thing i consider about a person, it's not a large part nor is it a particularaly vital part of my image of them. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 12:27:34 PM EDT
[#2]
You would be VERY surprised. Sometimes i think that money and stupidity are correlated somehow. 
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Posted: 3/16/2006 12:38:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Someone else said it first. If a guy is a dirtbag before he joins, most likely he won't change. If a guy is solid and doesn't join, he's not likely to degenerate into a dirtbag for it.
Also, there are a lot more stupid people who didn't go to college than stupid people who did. You just tend to expect Billy Bob or Tyrone or Juarez in a wife-beater t-shirt with his mouth hanging open and glazed over eyes to act stupid and don't think twice about it. You see an idiot with a PhD, and they do exist, and you take note of it because you expected better. And to some of the police, if you treat everyone with suspicion or act like jackasses to strangers, expect to get the same in return. Nobody drafted you. Stop complaining. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 12:43:44 PM EDT
[#4]
I think it pretty well depends on the attitude about the topic that comes across here.
There have been a fair number of posters that just about everyone hoped would remain civilian. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 12:46:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Not exactly. The military does do background checks and random drung testing. So as a sample of a given age range there is a lower percentage of criminals and drug abusers in the military than the general population. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 12:52:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Unlike Dick Cheney, who had "other priorities", I couldn't serve because of medical inelligibility. Believe me, I wanted to. I went from being fast tracked for Airborne (so the recruiter said) to spending several months in physical rehab at 17. No fun.
I'm proud and supportive of those who serve but this attitude that military service makes you a better citizen, or should garner you more rights than those who haven't is not how I understand America works. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 3:27:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Hammer, meet HEAD! We had the meanest, leanest, and SMARTEST Drill Sergeant. Right before graduation, he sat us down and had a talk with us and told us a few things about the military and being a female in it. One of the things he said, which ALWAYS stuck with me was that the military = a smaller portion of America at large. Told us that we should not trust a fellow soldier has our best interests at heart SIMPLY because he's in uniform. Smart man. Never babied us, but he made sure the women who walked out of his barracks were smarter and tougher than the women who walked in. We had 22 women in my platoon in Basic. I'm willing to bet his training helped more than one out of a sticky situation. As far as drug testing and background checks (mentioned above in another post) ...as far as I know, the BGC is only looking for people who GOT CAUGHT doing bad stuff as a civilian. Plenty have NOT. I was accosted by an E-4 while in Basic (KP Duty) My roommate in AIT was a thief.  Airborne guy I dated liked to hit women. So the BGC isn't all that. As far as Drug testing: yeah, it's there...but mostly for high risk personnell (When I was in, anyway---some of whom being Medical and Intelligence) I knew a company clerk who was once a OR Tech---busted for cocaine use, lost a few stripes and his OR Job and wound up ordering toiletpaper for a living. Nice guy. Stupid, but nice. I met WONDERFUL HONORABLE people while in. I also met some scum. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 3:35:54 PM EDT
[#8]
sorry man, gov't is so far from being a partner to the citizens of this country is sickning |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 3:39:41 PM EDT
[#9]
To join the military you have to be in reasonable good health, have the equivalent of a HS diploma, speak English, and be in America legally. Not the typical person that a lot of folks run into every day. The avg GI is a notch above the avg man on the street because of the selection bias at work. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 3:45:47 PM EDT
[#10]
I like the way my life is now. If I get drafted I will gladly do my part for the county's security. I just have a lot of bills to pay and I am happy with my life right now. Plus I wouldn't want to fuck up and get kicked out, that would make my life a lot worse than it has to be
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Posted: 3/16/2006 3:48:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Depends on how much shit-talking is involved.
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Posted: 3/16/2006 3:49:37 PM EDT
[#12]
I have no opinion of those who never served unless they chose to dodge a calling from their nation (i.e., draft).
The only persons I have a low opinion of in this regard is those that were in, and FAILED to fulfill their obligation due to misconduct. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 4:52:01 PM EDT
[#13]
I didn't and have few regrets in life... If you think less of me, tough...
I know some complete tools who served in the military, and some great people who voted for Kerry. To use it as a social marker is a bit naive. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 5:01:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Yet screening for character is all but impossible, and there lies the crux of the 'argument' |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 5:10:05 PM EDT
[#15]
The economy supports the military. Civilians are exremely important in the mix. Veterans have something they can be proud of, but so do the guys in the machine shops and factories, building the gear. I've been in both places and the people are the same.
I know a lot of civilians, who are not into guns, and I like them just fine, the way they are. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 5:36:10 PM EDT
[#16]
It does not alter my perception of a person. I take each person at face value regardless if they served or not. If they did then I have a little more in common with them than those who have not served.
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Posted: 3/16/2006 5:40:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Maybe not now but I've read of able bodied males being questioned why they weren't in the .mil during WW2. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 5:48:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Maybe more so among those who did serve, but everyone has a different oppotunties when growing up, so looking back it would have been nice to have served but I don't think myself or anyone else who didn't serve should feel bad because they didn't. What's more important is that we all contribute something for the greater good of America, and not end up jobless riding on the backs of everyone else who puts something into soceity.
my two cents for what its worth 
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Posted: 3/16/2006 5:54:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Me, 4 years-8 months and 20 days. Glad I did and it is not for everyone. Ill will toward those who didn't, none.
God bless America! |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 5:58:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Not serving means nothing. But there is a club that has only one way to join.
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Posted: 3/16/2006 6:05:29 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 3/16/2006 6:07:33 PM EDT
[#22]
I've been to many ARFcom get-togethers and I can say from my experience, yes... definitely.
I'm 20, I haven't served and while at a past ARFcom event, I actually had to (verbally) defend myself for not having served in the military. I was shocked to have been asked "what's keeping [me] from joining the military?" It's hard to explain, but at that point, it felt as if someone were to ask me "how do you feel about abortion?" during a job interview... and then proceeding to tear into me for my belief (either way). Fortunately, I had a good, irrefutable excuse... I was turned down. I considered joining, which is more than 90% of people my age can say. I (voluntarily) talked to a recruiter, which is more than 98% of people my age can say. Not only was I turned down, because I'm taking perscription medication, but I have no problem admitting that I decided at this point that it wasn't for me. I didn't consider it for ROTC to pay for school, or to get out of a jail sentence... but either way, I don't think I should have to take shit for making the decision not to voluntarily join the military. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 6:15:19 PM EDT
[#23]
I'll put my flame suit on....
the only guys that I know that enlisted out of high school had ZERO prospects. It was either enlist or 7-11 clerk (this was 88). I'm talking about guys that would have gotten their butts kicked by community college. I know many great guys that went the ROTC route. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 6:21:32 PM EDT
[#24]
I graduated in 1987, and that was all I saw as well. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 6:27:44 PM EDT
[#25]
I don't disrepect people who didn't serve - hell, were my situation different, I might not have. I didn't join for blind patriotism - what hooked me was the opportunity to travel away from my hometown of 1,000 people and the opportunity to get a jump on college tuition. Did my enlisted time-enjoyed the hell out of it and went back for more through college and ROTC. Did another tour while commissioned, saw even more of the world, and decided that I was ready to go back to my home state and put down some roots. Our ability to choose our path is one of the great things about living here.
I will admit however, that I do get irritated when those who haven't been there or done that choose to stand by and criticize as if they have - but my respect for their right to speak usually keeps me quietly dignified. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 6:33:21 PM EDT
[#26]
I don't care that a guy hasn't served, just don't give me some bullshit about why you didn't.
"I didn't want to." is OK by me. Just don't give me a bullshit tough guy answer. The one that pisses me off is: "I don't like getting bossed around." or "I don't like being told what to do." Guess what, Charlie? If you hate being told what to do, you are going to be a complete, total, utter failure in EVERYTHING you do. EVERYBODY has a boss. EVERYBODY. and don't give me this, either: Oh, Yeah! I'm self employed! I don't gotta take no shit from anyone! (Yeah, right. You gonna tell your customers to piss up a rope? I sotra fuckin' doubt it) |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 6:33:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Sometimes, I personally considered a military life for a long time. But recently ive felt a calling to Fire/EMS. I was worried the military lifestyle would be to hard for the ones I love, but I must admit that if there is a draft in the near future I AM going, drafted or not. If I see my country is in drastic need I cant be the wimp sitting at home.
Being a college student, I have much higher respect for anyone that has served than anyone that has a degree. Period. 99% of the people in college are complete retards, compaired to the 75% rate of retards in the military 
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Posted: 3/16/2006 6:37:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Conscripts do not make for a professional military.
Would it educate people in the ways of the world? Yes. But the military would be very different. Especially since the AF is looking to cut much of our personnel by 2011. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 6:50:36 PM EDT
[#29]
do you have the same recollection that I do?....that there was there feeling that it was all over....that the cold war was done and that the US was the sole super power and there were no more wars on the horizon? The last thing an 18 year old relishes is the idea of peeling taters for four years. Had I graduated from HS a few years later it would have been quite different. Heck I almost dropped out of college to enlist during the 1st Gulf War. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 6:59:13 PM EDT
[#30]
You are correct. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:01:26 PM EDT
[#31]
The military isn't for everyone. Just because you can doesn't mean its your "place" in life.
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:06:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Yeah, it is! There are those who take responsibility for our freedoms and there are those who just want things provided to them, like children in a candy store. Freedom is not free, pay your debt! So yes, I do look down on those who did not serve but there are exceptions. I have nothing but respect for those who desire to serve but are restricted because of medical conditions, this is not the same as those who make excuses! There are also some other social conditions that just plain make military service impossible. Again, smoking bongs and goofing for 4 years in college partying your ass off is not among them. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:12:48 PM EDT
[#33]
yeah, they thought easy ride because of what you're saying. I doubt endless pounds of tater peeling ever crossed their mind. 
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:14:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Glad you excuse me for being denied on medical.
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:17:59 PM EDT
[#35]
I find it sad that you think anyone in not in the .mil are bong hitters. In which case you must be terrified to go out in public driving on bridges that 'bong hitting' engineers built, flying in planes designed by 'bong hitting' engineers, using guns originally designed by 'bong smokers'. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:23:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Somebody's gotta do it. Actually, my four years in college involved no drugs or alcohol. It was a very painful 4 years as a pre-med chemistry major. I can assure you that those 'smoking bongs and goofing for 4 years' didn't go to med school.  Why didn't I join? I tried. Picture perfect health. I was all set to go when they said that "we have to send your file to the RCMP for review because your parents were born in a Communist Block country". After 8 months of waiting, I went on with my life. My experience working at two VA hospitals confirms what people have said about the military 'being a cross-section of society'. I met some incredible men, and some not-so-incredible men (I'm being nice ).
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:41:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Reason #1 I didn't join up: This exact attitude. How about every qualified American male and female between 18 and 30 leaves the private sector and jumps on the guv't payroll? Do you want to drop your earnings to $5000 per year or drive the nation further into dept while the infrastructure crumbles? You guys can crucify me if you want, but here's my other reason for not joining when I got out of school, I grew up next to an Army base. We had a regular supply of bar fights/stabbings involving .mil, really cool crotch rockets cruising the high school, and 15-17 year old fat girls getting knocked up. I know now that this was a small section of enlisted but that was the face of the Army where I lived. I got a job, hit the crap out of the bong, quit hitting the bong, and have been one hell of a taxpayer. Now that I've matured to the point of being worthless to the armed services, I do kind of wish that I'd served when I was younger. As another poster said, if the battle comes here I'll be right up front with a fine assortment of America-defending tools of battle. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:49:40 PM EDT
[#38]
+1.......I feel that health issues are the ONLY thing that should keep you home......it's the quote from Kennedy's innauguration...." Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"......I believe we all owe it to ourselves to serve this country......but if you didn't, I don't think you're less of a man/woman because of it.... 
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:53:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Uh, gee, thanks for your vote of confidence. I enlisted in '97 right out of high school because I thought that serving in the Air Force would be totally cool. And it was. I could have easily just gone to college. Instead I joined, worked more than full time and went to college full time. And then I still ended up getting out, going to more full-time college and finally got back in with a commission. It was more of a long-term plan than an act of desperation. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 9:08:17 PM EDT
[#40]
There are many many people who are good people and have contributed to society in a possitive way.
In general - serving in the military is something that should be respected (though that isnt an automatic in my book, as there are some total shit heads in the military). But it isnt something that should be mandatory - nor should it be looked down upon if you havent served. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 9:12:12 PM EDT
[#41]
I would hate to think people who have served looked down universally upon those who hadn't.
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Posted: 3/16/2006 9:15:22 PM EDT
[#42]
hard to say, too many different people for a diffinative answer. I feel sick I didn't serve and have tried twice to enlist as an old man but because of neck vertebrae fusions I am ineligible.
At the time of the Gulf War I was on a church mission and planning to enlist. Gulf war ended and I came home and entered college to a full time scholarship (football). After 5 years of football and a year in the pros during the Klinton years, enlisting was almost impossible due to "right sizing" and military cuts. I'm sad to have missed the chance and I am so grateful to our veterans that do serve and have served. As an ex-NFL player who most people think have had more than his share of fun I have to say you truly are my heros and I really appreciate and respect your sacrifice and service. |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 9:20:41 PM EDT
[#43]
I missed that thread, but I suspect there’s a lot of folks here who genuinely wanted to join but couldn’t get past the medical part. I have no doubt their disappointment is real and acute.  And I’m sure there’s a fair share of members who just never got around to it and one day found themselves looking at an old guy in the bathroom mirror.  While I did my time in the military, I’ve certainly had equivalent disappointments in my own life. Just how things are, I guess. In general, I don’t care if someone served or not. However, I admit I do get indignant when talking to hot-shot, first-in-the-door LEO types who think they’re better than everybody else since they’ve got a badge – but somehow never got around to being in the military. And for whatever reason, I’ve had that conversation quite a few times over the years.  |
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Posted: 3/16/2006 9:41:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Hell to be safe I would quess 75% of the people here are not vets! Playmoreminds my only daughter was an M88 sarge E-6,driving fuel trucks from Kuwaite to Iraq,when they got to thier base the other wemen drivers were complaining about men jumping on the running boards and grabbing thier tits!
They all asked her did that happen to her,she said hell no(she pointed the barrell of her M-16 at them and said get the fuck off) she then chewed there ass out and said you better damn well act different than what they expect you to be!!! You are American soldiers not Iraqie women!!! She was allways like her dad,kind of rebellious! Just how bad can you be with a name like Poppy!! We served so that many would not have to! Now it's even better because there is no draft,and those that serve will give thier life for those that cannot,or will not serve!! Bob 
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Posted: 3/16/2006 10:11:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Just because you served or did not serve, makes no difference as to whateher or not you are a steaming pile of old douche bags, left on a barge in the middle of summer. I have met them in and out of the service. I do think that you should have to serve to wear cammies in public, just my opinion, I am well aware that this will piss some people off, But if you want to pretend that yu're GI fucking joe, then man up and enlist. Otherwise Fuggetaboutit.
Semper Paratus.
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Posted: 3/16/2006 11:10:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Does the sheepdog have a "negative perception" of the flock it guards?
Not really. Different animals, that's all. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 4:19:05 AM EDT
[#47]
You probably don't realize how different '97 was than '87. Totally different thing. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 4:33:09 AM EDT
[#48]
I hear ya on that one. I have heard a lot of guys talkin about how tactical this is, and that is, and how last night I watched on the History channel this and read in SOF magazine that, our boys over there are using this sniper rifle, blah blah blah. And that's fine if you are interested in it and find it fascinating, most of us here do. But if you were truly into it that much, why not join and do it? I understand if they have a serious medical condition or something like that, but if it's just because your parents told you college is the way to go, or you dont like discipline or early mornings or whatever then I tend to think there is a bit too much bullshittin goin on. Just like this guy said, if you want to play ball, man the fuck up and step up to the plate |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 5:16:16 AM EDT
[#49]
You sir, are an idiot. |
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Posted: 3/17/2006 5:28:14 AM EDT
[#50]
My take on it ( if you really want to know ) is that we live in a country that gives the men and women a choice. If they want to serve ,great,if not,no problem. Part of what makes this country what it is ,is the freedom of choice. To choose to serve or to choose not to.
My problem that I do have is people who talk like they did serve who haven't,or talk about serving in special forces when they didn't. No shame in being a cook or a truck driver and serving your country. None what so ever. But some people seem to think that if they weren't a SEAL or a RANGER ,then their service was less and didn't mean as much. Anyway,if you didn't serve,I don't have a problem with you. |
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) but I've never noticed any hostility towards those who never served.